AEW Strategy If WWE Turns Off Fans, TNA Vs. NXT, & Women's Blood & Guts Rationale | Takedown

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, it is the rare live stream addition of takedown couldn't find the time to record it earlier today, so Paul

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[SPEAKER_00]: agreed to jump on in the evening.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know you have you have a little bit of free time in the evening.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it works out for you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're able to to go live now topics wise.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This week was pretty interesting because I went I I mean I was very I was I was very public about my I needed the weekend off like I was not going to watch any wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So no Smackdown.

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[SPEAKER_00]: no collision, no NXT, no mercy, and I'm not, I don't watch TNA generally, but I know TNA was also this weekend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I took the weekend off, and then I thought, man, what am I going to do for Monday?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I clicked through a collision this morning, which meant that, you know, I didn't, it wasn't the weekend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was Monday.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I just kind of clicked through it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't go against my word.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I got to see some of the stuff that happened on collision.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I read some of the SmackDown stuff and then now I have a little bit of an idea.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The one thing that I didn't really follow and I'll allow you to kind of take the lead on, which is the NXT TNA, the Invasion stuff, Ricky Saints winning the title from Oberthemmy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All that stuff will all kind of lean on you and we can talk about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, I came up with the first topic, which is something that Dave and I and John Muse and Ethan Tyler talked about on Wrestling Observer Radio.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The show went too long, so I kind of had to cut off the podcast version.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, okay, well, we'll just hang out and there will be a little bit of an overflow on the YouTube channel.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So for those who have the YouTube subscription can watch it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then Josh Nason sent me an email yesterday, sirs, a note saying, Yeah, the subscribers are mad that they didn't connect 20 minutes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, so I put it up on the live on the regular YouTube.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think Josh put it in.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The the feed as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So sorry people the 20 minutes that you didn't get to hear, but it was actually a pretty good 20 minutes and one of the things we talked about was What happens usually in the history of WWE when they are super successful is that they kind of get in this mentality of like we can do no wrong

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the interesting thing about this time is they have actually made some mistakes creatively and it hasn't meant anything to their business like personally to me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: John Cena thing was was a mistake and I think had they've been able to figure out him being a hot baby face through the summer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that would have been better for business actually than him trying to be a heal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He has even admitted saying that that was a mistake.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't good at it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it's things like that where historically you turn stone cold Steve Austin and there's like an immediate

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[SPEAKER_00]: uh, the business goes down because of this decision.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that is not what their businesses right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They can raise prices and nothing happens.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They can move their entire PLE system to a different place and at least right now nothing happens.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They moved all of their television for Monday night to a streaming service and we can argue what those numbers are and what they mean, but to their business, to their current business is actually been for the most part from what I can tell a positive and not a negative.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I was in this hypothetical headspace Paul and I want to ask you, let's say there was an opportunity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: where WWE's business actually did fall a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And there was an opportunity for AEW to pick up some disgruntled customers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I'm going to say this hypothetical because I don't see it at all, nothing tells me that this exists.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was thinking about this as a pertain to AEW's paper view all out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was thinking that as, okay, you actually,

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[SPEAKER_00]: got some good publicity because your show went up against WWE show and your show didn't die.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Your show actually picked up buys.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it was because of the competition, the card itself wasn't that great to me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So there's something in there that caused fans to go and push the the buy button.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it was being on max.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But then I was like, okay, so what about Wednesday?

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[SPEAKER_00]: You come off of this hot show, that hot to some people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then what do you do on Wednesday?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if there was an opportunity, if there were some people who were like, if this ESPN unlimited app, I'm not doing this anymore, I'm gonna go to AEW.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What was on Wednesday when's they show to where AEW's like, come over here?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, come on our side, give us a hug.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so let's use this for the first topic, which is,

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[SPEAKER_00]: If there was an opportunity, do you think AEW's product is open to grabbing WWE eyes?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Or is it too different and maybe even too niche for those fans to even give it a chance if they got disgruntled with WWE?

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[SPEAKER_02]: also it's been around a while.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So you know like I think that obviously we saw when a w debuted that I'm sure a lot of their fans that started watching the show that we're originally buying the paper views were disenfranchised ww fans.

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[SPEAKER_02]: because WWE had been the only game in town for 20 years.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, TNA are a wage, but, you know, like the only serious competitor.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the only one that was going to bid for talent.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So we've got that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, we got an uptick when CM Punk came in as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We got more of those disenfranchised fans that came back.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then when they got, you know, Brian Danielson, Adam Cole coming in from WWE, we haven't really seen it with any of the other people they brought in from WWE, like Mercedes or Adam Copeland, like we haven't really seen any.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So like I wonder,

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[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if like their diets cast in that sense like in terms of X WWE fans or you know current WWE fans that don't like what they're seeing or

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[SPEAKER_02]: are frustrated by booking, by ticket prices, by the fact that they're doing business with Saudi Arabia, you know, a number of things, and what you mentioned about switching platforms, and everything.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think the switching platforms might be something, because I really do see, out of all the things you mentioned, that is the one where I've seen people complaining the most

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[SPEAKER_02]: the app, not being what they were told it was going to be, you know, like, just turn on the SPN, you know?

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, that more so than the quality of the shows or the booking, I think that is the one where I think they may have done a misstep, whereas at the same time, AWs on HBO Max, which from all accounts is pretty easy, it's a higher quality,

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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's an extension of their cable broadcast and then now you got the paper views where you can just buy it on the same platform and save money.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe maybe, but I'm, I'm not sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, again, this is a hypothetical, um, because I don't, I don't see the WWE fan, you know, you know, it's so interesting about the product.

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[SPEAKER_00]: WWE has so many people who are over.

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[SPEAKER_00]: that when Roman Reigns goes away to shoot a movie, it is actually a positive, because the fans pop for when it comes back, and he's only been gone like a month.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And which happened on Raw Tonight, well, by the way, I didn't see it, but I know that I saw that as kind of the big news coming out of the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He came back.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think he came back.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't seen it either.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was watching New Japan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that is something that they can always go back to.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, Oh, Cody Rhodes is going to go shoot a movie.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to be gone for four weeks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: CM Punk, he's going to be gone for three weeks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Jacob Fattu, who we haven't seen for a month, and then he shows up on SmackDown and then it almost feels like they're new again, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: AEW, there's another one, whenever he comes back, it'll be a big deal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And AEW, they don't have enough people over who can actually do that and make a difference.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like we thought, Eddie Kingston, I would have used him in a much different way, but Eddie Kingston comes back to that pay-per-view.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and the fan base was like, okay, this is the worst thing on the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Orange Cassidy shows up on Dynamite and they couldn't have done that worse.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I blame the booking and the creative for that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think it was good at all, but the point is is like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Even though folks that you can do that with, they're not even doing it in a way that excites a lot of people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They just sort of like absorbed back into the fabric of the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so if I was Tony Khan, and he has been very positive about their year, I think to bounce back from what they dealt with the previous two years,

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[SPEAKER_00]: in just the negativity around the product, the negativity around his creative, the negativity around how he handled, see him punk and in Jack Perry.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They he personally has bounced back pretty well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that,

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[SPEAKER_00]: He is so happy with how things are going and he's putting out the product that he wants or maybe that he's been trying to do and he finally has been able to do it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But they have also lost baby faces, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll all spray that that's one that they're going to have to deal with.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Swerve will probably be back sooner than later, but that's another one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Kenny Omega, not being the Kenny Omega that

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[SPEAKER_00]: we want him to be probably ever again, is something that they'll have to deal.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He's coming back on Wednesday and that may have even been handled worse than Cassidy.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They announced it during a match on collision that nobody would have seen.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, the thing that I would do and this is harder said than done.

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[SPEAKER_00]: cooling off a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I use my buddy, Dylan, who, the Joker, pro-Russing Joker, who, I mean, I, like, around this time last year through WrestleMania, like this guy was on all of the shows that Dave and I did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was texting me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was on our shows,

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I had to text me other days like, hey dude, what is going on?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I haven't heard from you in forever.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, uh, I kind of fell off.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I just took a couple months off of WWE.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was kind of boring.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And there are fans like that, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: There are fans like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, how do you attract Daleen if you are Tony Khan?

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, there, I would try and create, I would try and put things in my product,

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[SPEAKER_00]: That would attract a daily.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I don't know that AEW could fully get daily in the way that WWE has before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's there's a level of the cool thing in town that I think he really, really enjoys about their product.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and AWS not, like you're not going to a TV taping and seeing 15,000 people or 12,000 people or whatever it is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to a TV taping in a small building and seeing three.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that makes it inherently less cool because it doesn't look like everyone else is doing this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, but that part of it is hard, but there would be things creatively

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that I would kind of do for the possibility that WWE just cools off because it's inevitable right you can't keep a hot streak for years and years and years there's just going to be there's going to be an issue there's going to be a fight there's going to be someone who gets hurt.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and there will be a window.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think AEW will ever be able to compete with WWE like they did when CM Punk came along because that was kind of like a once in a lifetime and they did take advantage of that for that year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it is there are things that they can do I think that would enable them to possibly peak the interest in the event.

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[SPEAKER_00]: that a WWE fan, Michael Gash, I'm kind of sick of these high prices or I'm kind of sick of triple H hobnobbing with Donald Trump or the Saudi thing is finally gotten to me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever the reason is, I'm not saying that those are the reasons.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying whatever the reason is because WWE will give you

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[SPEAKER_00]: The opportunity to question them in many reasons.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There was a Brock Lesnar thing that Paul Hanks said that that got people upset last weekend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I just don't sense that Tony Khan's version of wrestling necessarily would even open things open the opportunity to attract that kind of fan with the way that he's doing things today though.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say that with one caveat, he did try.

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[SPEAKER_00]: with a couple of moments on all out, which I'm a wee both talked about this, that they didn't hit for me, but there was an attempt with the, with the, with the Jack Perry return and there was an attempt with the Chris Statlander winning and then I got frustrated because on Wednesday, the way that she was introduced as the world champion who beat this like historic title, it's like they're most over person in their company, and it was like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome Chris Dettland or congratulations on winning.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now let's move on to the next thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh my gosh, like how?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Why?

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it wasn't that big, and you can even contrast it to Monday and at RAW where Stephanie Vicarre gets her own segment to cut a promo.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now I didn't even think that was perfect, but that was way better than introducing Chris Dettland or the way that Renee just did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If like, hey, and then here's Harley to steal the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Deep down, yeah, yeah, a promo.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Again, this is hypothetical, but if you were Tony, are there things that you could do to attract a possible disenfranchised fan?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there are, but the problem is, and we've run into this before, when he does things like that, that he thinks will attract a WWE fan, he ends up getting a lot of pushback from very vocal online hardcore AW fans that don't want it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And are they going to go away, though?

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[SPEAKER_02]: because that's bad.

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[SPEAKER_02]: No, they're not, but he listens to them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So when stuff happens and maybe they have a bad week because they were up against the opening of the NCAA tournament or Major League Baseball World Series or something and then the numbers are down and then oh well look it's because you did this and realizing it's no it's like if you've got to make some change

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[SPEAKER_02]: or like some of the stuff he does like maybe he's trying to do like something like WWE would do or something that would attract the WWE fan.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I gotta be careful.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We can't do with WWE would do, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: That's a no-no, but to attract the WWE fan.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, it's funny.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You bring up your friend, Dalen, and I have a friend, you know, it's my friend Doug who, you know, I kind of use him as a barometer sometimes and he's been in and out mostly out on a W when they first debuted he was super excited because WWE sucked.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He was looking for something else, and he watched it for like the first six months, and then he just kind of like, yeah, I don't really like this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then he's been in and out since then when they last came to Winnipeg, which I think was like, may have last year.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I brought him to the show.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'd gotten free tickets.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so he came because it was free and because we got free food.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Who was put it over the top?

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[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't gonna go with it now for the free food.

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[SPEAKER_02]: he I'd asked him I he said I haven't even watched it since a last show we went to which was a year before and he said and then after the show he's like don't even bother asking me next time like I'm not going wow yeah like he just didn't like it that was the show where Kenny Omega got beat up

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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, and they did that angle where they wrote them off for however long he was gone.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he just didn't like it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And it was, you know, the crowd.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But it's kind of like what you said.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like the first time we went.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, the building was almost full people were rabid.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was a fun show, especially compared to the Smackdown that we had just gone to.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, and then.

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[SPEAKER_02]: fast forward a year and we also went to a raw around the same time and raw was so much better than dynamite and the building we had like it was half full whereas raw was packed to the rafters.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So you know like there is that cool game in town feeling but it's also

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[SPEAKER_02]: WWE has been around forever and if you grew up as a wrestling fan, that's the wrestling you know and and it's comfortable and as long as it's not bad, you're probably going to stick with it and and so like when we had this discussion off air, you know, like about Russell Palusa.

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[SPEAKER_02]: and it wasn't a bad show.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't what Triple H promised.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It definitely wasn't a good show.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But if you're like a fan that just tunes in every time and you're like, yeah, okay, that wasn't great.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But the next one will be better.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what the problem is though about today's wrestling and this is actually

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[SPEAKER_00]: A positive thing about it is too good.

19:14.924 --> 19:18.946
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the the the wrestlers are so athletic, so talented.

19:18.966 --> 19:22.889
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the shows are especially WWE's shows are really well produced.

19:22.989 --> 19:25.910
[SPEAKER_00]: A W has some really good produce shows.

19:25.970 --> 19:28.512
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they still make down for glory was a bad show.

19:28.552 --> 19:29.772
[SPEAKER_00]: First bad choice in a while.

19:30.252 --> 19:30.653
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really.

19:31.053 --> 19:31.233
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

19:31.473 --> 19:31.653
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

19:32.314 --> 19:32.494
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

19:32.634 --> 19:35.395
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it had a couple good matches on it, but it was a bad show.

19:36.256 --> 19:38.377
[SPEAKER_02]: Those two companies, it's going to be.

19:39.482 --> 19:41.046
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to have to be something that

19:48.164 --> 19:52.567
[SPEAKER_00]: 20 years ago, we would have considered an average show for to be really bad.

19:52.727 --> 19:56.270
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, yeah, like victory road was way better than a show from 20 years ago.

19:56.670 --> 20:01.153
[SPEAKER_02]: I read some of these reviews in the old observers, and it's like one and a half stars, one star.

20:01.353 --> 20:05.316
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the best match in the show is three and a quarter stars, and it's got mostly thumbs up.

20:05.656 --> 20:07.057
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's what we were dealing with.

20:07.217 --> 20:09.239
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like there's no way that would fly today.

20:09.639 --> 20:10.920
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, and yeah.

20:14.753 --> 20:19.529
[SPEAKER_00]: Reviews like everyone is talking about Andre's hails review as a sea.

20:19.669 --> 20:20.934
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and people go oh

20:22.235 --> 20:26.696
[SPEAKER_00]: it's a sea and you think of a sea as a sea that you would get in school.

20:26.736 --> 20:26.956
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

20:26.996 --> 20:27.496
[SPEAKER_00]: I passed.

20:28.136 --> 20:32.837
[SPEAKER_00]: But what a sea is today versus what a sea would have been years ago.

20:32.857 --> 20:38.378
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so different because our expectations are just so much higher for the quality of shows that we get.

20:38.818 --> 20:47.879
[SPEAKER_00]: So in reality, when you give something a sea, you're basically saying that it was not good or it did not live up to your expectations.

20:48.599 --> 20:51.120
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is why I set most of the shows that we see

20:52.080 --> 20:53.702
[SPEAKER_00]: I sit them in the BB plus range.

20:54.342 --> 21:07.073
[SPEAKER_00]: There are very few shows that we see that I go, okay, that was an A, because my expectation is a little higher than it would have been, you know, even two years ago, as far as the stuff.

21:07.313 --> 21:11.897
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's good about competition as well, as you, they're raising the floor of what these shows are.

21:12.497 --> 21:13.739
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is

21:15.334 --> 21:18.616
[SPEAKER_00]: a byproduct of kind of where wrestling is today.

21:18.656 --> 21:28.060
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas if you do something like Russell Palusa, a sea is kind of like an F if you are looking at it from the perspective of what did they promise and what did they give us?

21:28.420 --> 21:30.681
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a sea, people are thinking that's positive.

21:30.801 --> 21:35.163
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of looked at it as damn Andreas, you know, kind of ripped them.

21:35.443 --> 21:37.964
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're masking it by putting a

21:40.445 --> 21:42.106
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, we don't have to say too much on this.

21:42.146 --> 22:07.927
[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess I had idea of one more thing, which is if you, like, let's let's use Doug, but let's use Doug before he swore off AEW, like, let's say, let's say, let's say the 2019 Doug who is so bummed about WWE, what is even AEW's biggest selling point to that fan?

22:10.813 --> 22:26.907
[SPEAKER_00]: Dean Ambrose and they have Edge and they have Bobby Lashley and MVP is that the selling point or is the selling point like look at all these younger wrestlers and the the product is faster and because to me.

22:28.388 --> 22:35.715
[SPEAKER_00]: Where the difference in the two products are are in WWE usability to pull off AJ and CM Punk.

22:36.976 --> 23:01.507
[SPEAKER_00]: which kind of comes out of nowhere, but you just watch the level of detail that they put into that thing and they're letting their superstars cook versus I don't even know what the comparable thing would be on AEW as far as like the storytelling or they trying to build to this moment of like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we're going to see this like that's where WWE still kills them.

23:02.697 --> 23:16.387
[SPEAKER_00]: in every time, whereas, you know, the AEW fan may think, maybe that they don't want that for whatever reason, but like that's the thing that still gets me to the dance is like, if you promise me that, I'm paying attention.

23:16.708 --> 23:28.917
[SPEAKER_00]: If you promise me a four star match, which is now really to my eyeballs, a three star match because I just see that that's like the average of these days, that's gonna be less, I'm gonna be less interested

23:32.582 --> 23:47.368
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think you nailed it there because when you talk about what a W has or what it could have that would attract fans of WWE that maybe are looking for a change, I think what they need is

23:49.086 --> 24:08.313
[SPEAKER_02]: like the the the their strength is also their weakness to the fans that they don't have and that is the wrestling for Nando brought it up in the chat you know where he said WWE fans will stay with WWE because a w prior towards prioritizes in ring wrestling and they don't like that.

24:09.233 --> 24:11.434
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not true, like WWE fans.

24:11.474 --> 24:17.277
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not that they don't like in ring wrestling, but it's not necessarily the most important thing to them.

24:17.797 --> 24:23.140
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you're giving them a product, that is just match match match match match match.

24:23.180 --> 24:23.921
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to get bored.

24:25.101 --> 24:28.224
[SPEAKER_02]: And so what you need is you need to create stars.

24:28.924 --> 24:39.872
[SPEAKER_02]: And so Tony Khan's idea is we've got John Moxley, we've got Hangman, we've got Tony Storm, we got Mercedes, these are all people that are over with my fan base.

24:40.192 --> 24:42.214
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to send them out there to wrestle every week.

24:42.854 --> 24:47.398
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Moxley's going to wrestle Daniel Garcia, he's going to wrestle tag match, he's going to do this, he's going to do that.

24:47.758 --> 24:52.562
[SPEAKER_02]: Hangman's going to wrestle, he's going to defend the title against Lee Moriarty, because that's a banner, everybody's going to love that.

24:53.507 --> 25:09.559
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that, I mean, I loved it for Lee, I loved Lee getting the exposure, but it was just every other, yeah, every other happy loser kind of match that we said and Jeff and I talk about this like how much better where to been for hangman to go out there and do a promo.

25:10.479 --> 25:19.883
[SPEAKER_02]: If Hangman was a strong enough promo to carry a segment like that and do a promo and talk about what happened at the pay Preview set up what's gonna happen next.

25:19.923 --> 25:21.563
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe have someone come out and interact with them.

25:21.583 --> 25:32.488
[SPEAKER_02]: Whoever's gonna be his next Challenger like again, that's something WWE would do but that's also why that's how real Ripley became the biggest star on that raw brand without hardly ever wrestling

25:33.232 --> 25:38.295
[SPEAKER_02]: because they're presented as a star and you're focusing on their strengths.

25:38.796 --> 25:54.926
[SPEAKER_02]: Confletcher to me, as greatest as matches are, maybe enjoy his promos even more when he comes out there and he talks about being the protostar and and there's a spotlight on him and he talks about things and especially when he's interacting with people.

25:55.506 --> 25:57.868
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like that's the guy, like I mean,

25:58.488 --> 25:59.929
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the guy, like right there.

25:59.989 --> 26:08.255
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I don't know if Tony realizes it, but that's the guy that, and he's 26 years old, like God's sake, and he just signed a long-term deal.

26:08.715 --> 26:13.899
[SPEAKER_02]: So I bring up Hangman maybe is not the guy to send out there to do a promo segment.

26:13.939 --> 26:15.020
[SPEAKER_02]: That's gonna last you 10 minutes.

26:15.320 --> 26:17.422
[SPEAKER_02]: Tony's storm, that's how she got over.

26:17.602 --> 26:18.603
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't her wrestling.

26:19.405 --> 26:25.187
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Mercedes, it's mostly her wrestling, but she's also compelling in those in those segments.

26:26.447 --> 26:28.108
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's a lot of TV time.

26:28.688 --> 26:32.929
[SPEAKER_00]: She does mock these themes special because she gets her own segment.

26:33.369 --> 26:39.351
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I mentioned with Chris that lender, she gets like a three minute conversation with Renee.

26:40.094 --> 26:40.414
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

26:40.594 --> 26:41.796
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

26:42.096 --> 26:47.861
[SPEAKER_02]: And where she's not even the focus of it because it's about Wheeler, Utah, and it's about Harley Cameron.

26:48.562 --> 26:51.784
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I thought she did a great job in the main event segment.

26:52.345 --> 26:55.628
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, again, you know, like turning down Moxie, like that came off really well.

26:55.688 --> 26:59.571
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably the best thing they've done with her since the will of feud.

27:00.732 --> 27:00.932
[SPEAKER_02]: But,

27:01.653 --> 27:07.996
[SPEAKER_02]: even better than winning the title honestly like the way she reacted and the way she acted and her acting in that segment was really good.

27:08.336 --> 27:09.596
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's what they need to do.

27:09.676 --> 27:24.122
[SPEAKER_02]: I think but I also don't think there's any chance that they're actually going to do that because I think Tony believes that and he's right that his wrestling that he has, he has the best wrestling, AW is where the best wrestle.

27:24.182 --> 27:28.084
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's it's a cliche but it says that too loud, man.

27:30.465 --> 27:30.886
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I know.

27:31.026 --> 27:32.750
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's okay.

27:33.010 --> 27:36.016
[SPEAKER_02]: They have AWs where the wrestlers have the best matches.

27:37.437 --> 27:38.738
[SPEAKER_02]: But even that he's going to argue with.

27:38.998 --> 27:45.803
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, by the way, I would pretty much agree, but it's styles of wrestling, right?

27:45.883 --> 27:54.829
[SPEAKER_00]: If you, right, if you're looking for what you believe is a pay-per-view effort on television, the effort is there.

27:54.969 --> 27:58.652
[SPEAKER_00]: No matter if you appreciate the style of match that you're going to get, right?

27:58.752 --> 28:02.474
[SPEAKER_00]: We're on WWE, they wrestle a style for a television show,

28:06.617 --> 28:07.458
[SPEAKER_00]: I've said this before.

28:07.478 --> 28:13.302
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even really pay attention that closely to television matches, because I know that nothing is going to happen.

28:13.562 --> 28:14.963
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that it's just a set up.

28:15.023 --> 28:16.584
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just marketing for the pay per view.

28:16.664 --> 28:25.370
[SPEAKER_00]: So to me, I don't really care about the television wrestling, but to some people have to watch any W. Yeah, to some people, they live and die by it.

28:25.510 --> 28:27.531
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's like they're the favorite thing of the week.

28:27.691 --> 28:30.873
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, it's just you're leaning into different tastes, I guess.

28:31.994 --> 28:40.477
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's talk about this NXT TNA invasion angle that they are doing and you can talk a little bit about the no mercy thing.

28:41.298 --> 28:46.260
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess my question on it is outside of TNA.

28:48.040 --> 28:49.781
[SPEAKER_00]: Do people care about this angle?

28:50.301 --> 28:53.762
[SPEAKER_00]: If you unless you were a TNA fan, because I can see to a TNA fan, they're like,

29:01.256 --> 29:22.561
[SPEAKER_00]: using WWE television to kind of get over our guys and maybe this will be helpful, but I so I can see it from a TNA standpoint, but I can also see it from a TNA standpoint of just that that TNA fan who just expects the worst to happen at all times, they can probably go like, okay, we're going to get screwed in this thing again, but our people like outside of that demographic

29:29.082 --> 29:32.027
[SPEAKER_00]: anything more than just normal storyline wrestling.

29:32.805 --> 29:36.608
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, well, I think like you asked if any outside of TNA.

29:36.648 --> 29:40.610
[SPEAKER_02]: I think probably a lot of NXT fans are interested in it too.

29:40.630 --> 29:44.252
[SPEAKER_02]: But do they see TNA as an equal, I guess, is my question.

29:44.613 --> 29:53.939
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe not the company itself, but some of the, some of the, the wrestlers in the company, you know, like you heard the pop, well, I don't, I don't know if you heard it because you probably didn't watch it.

29:53.959 --> 30:00.303
[SPEAKER_02]: But when Matt Cardone showed up, you know, like there is, you know, like he came off as like a bigger star than most people on their roster.

30:01.183 --> 30:12.030
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, and then some of the others, you know, maybe not, but I wonder if that is more of a forbidden door moment than it is Because of this invade like if you can promise for a bit in door moments.

30:12.710 --> 30:12.830
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

30:12.870 --> 30:15.092
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I think I think that I think that could work.

30:15.372 --> 30:17.353
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and you kind of joked and I heard you.

30:17.373 --> 30:24.958
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember what show it was on But when I or you might even said in the discord when I brought up like man's Warner

30:25.418 --> 30:42.514
[SPEAKER_02]: you know and and but but it's funny because like that's for me like that's a guy would have never expected to see on WWE television so it was it wasn't that oh my god it's man's water yeah you know it was more like it's like a forbidden forbidden door kind of thing yeah exactly and then you know like Eric young

30:43.255 --> 31:02.275
[SPEAKER_02]: you know was one because he was so down on when he left like if you remember like yeah I told Vince to shove it you know like and he's right back, you know, I'm sure you got a paycheck so I think like I think there is some I don't think it's like drawing new viewers, but it's you know, it's creating a little bit of a buzz

31:02.996 --> 31:06.578
[SPEAKER_02]: I know the one thing that is exciting fans of both companies.

31:06.738 --> 31:13.861
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they did announce one match for Bound for Glory, that a lot of people are excited about, and that's Javon Evans and Leon Slater.

31:14.761 --> 31:26.066
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like two guys, I think Leon's 20 and Javon's 21, and these are like two of the best wrestlers in either company, and they're gonna wrestle for the exhibition title, so that's one.

31:26.466 --> 31:28.427
[SPEAKER_02]: And that might even excite to me, W fans.

31:28.927 --> 31:45.607
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, because that's the kind of match that, you know, would be, I mean, if that was on an AW pay for view, you know, I can't even imagine what it would be like, so I will say, like, you know, when you talk about my friend again, like, he actually started watching TNA when they started.

31:45.987 --> 31:56.352
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and he's like, I kind of like this, like a lot of xwb people, and he said, and it's like, he said, I definitely like it better than a w, because it's more of closer to what he's used to.

31:57.173 --> 32:09.459
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, there's certain things he's like, I mean, I'm not going to watch these women, um, you know, but, you know, because like TNA women's division, the god bless some, but, um, you know, it's like, what are you doing with Tessa?

32:10.720 --> 32:17.826
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, she, so she, they didn't angle where she was suspended and she just had to be supposed to come back at the paper view, but she didn't.

32:18.466 --> 32:26.272
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I, I'm not exactly sure what's what's going on there, uh, but, uh, yeah, like it was an angle where she shoved the ring now, well, she didn't shove her.

32:26.292 --> 32:27.293
[SPEAKER_02]: She actually beat the shit over.

32:27.953 --> 32:32.457
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and, uh, G is a wrestler herself, like, she's a, G, a Miller.

32:32.997 --> 32:35.519
[SPEAKER_02]: So I, I think, um, they're setting up a match.

32:35.739 --> 32:39.482
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe about for glory between you, do you want to, if you, if you were to,

32:39.822 --> 32:41.103
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this would be a good test.

32:41.663 --> 32:52.087
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like if we said, okay, the WWE audience, this audience cheered Vince McMahon when he came back last.

32:53.047 --> 32:58.409
[SPEAKER_00]: This audience has no problem with Brock Lesnar, who is on television.

32:58.949 --> 32:59.269
[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

32:59.970 --> 33:07.392
[SPEAKER_00]: This audience just kind of like pushes the real world away and is like,

33:10.463 --> 33:16.188
[SPEAKER_00]: If Tessa Blanchard came into WWE, would she get heavily boot?

33:16.768 --> 33:22.192
[SPEAKER_02]: If she showed up at the NXT arena, every single one of them's chatting, she's a racist.

33:23.794 --> 33:25.475
[SPEAKER_02]: But it would amount, what about main roster?

33:26.265 --> 33:27.445
[SPEAKER_02]: that one I'm not sure of.

33:29.206 --> 33:31.747
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it might be more in difference like they don't even know who she is.

33:32.187 --> 33:34.128
[SPEAKER_02]: That I would I thought about that too.

33:34.228 --> 33:40.950
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but but in the NXT like if they brought her into NXT, those fans would not like her.

33:41.250 --> 33:44.111
[SPEAKER_02]: I I just the sense I guarantee it.

33:44.531 --> 33:47.332
[SPEAKER_02]: And when they decide they don't like somebody, it's unison.

33:47.613 --> 33:49.813
[SPEAKER_02]: Like for some reason, they hate crossprings.

33:50.494 --> 33:51.314
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know why.

33:51.334 --> 33:51.554
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't

33:54.675 --> 33:58.756
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember like back in the day, there was somebody who was like their total baby face.

33:58.836 --> 34:02.097
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it was um, it was the rascals, whatever their name was back then.

34:02.437 --> 34:05.217
[SPEAKER_02]: They just, I think there was like a domestic dispute or something.

34:05.237 --> 34:08.798
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, yeah, because his girlfriend or something.

34:09.098 --> 34:12.219
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and they just turned on them and they basically had to fire them.

34:12.739 --> 34:14.499
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, they kept Wesley.

34:14.519 --> 34:16.520
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know where the weather house he haven't seen him in a while.

34:17.560 --> 34:36.953
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, they, so yeah, I think like they can't put bring her into NXT and they never have and I don't think they will because I think they know like that that crowd will turn on her and even in TNA like it's subsided a bit like it depends where they are and it's not so much like area of town, but it's more like if they're

34:37.733 --> 34:51.836
[SPEAKER_02]: If they're in a building that small and packed, they tend to, like, very vocal against her, but in some of the big buildings where they don't have a lot of seats sold, those are the ones where they kind of just give her the normal heel heat that she gets.

34:52.536 --> 35:00.458
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know, I don't think she's worth the, I don't think the juices worth the squeeze there, even though she's a talented wrestler, I just, I, I, I, I, I, you see the,

35:01.939 --> 35:15.614
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... the internet exploded with this masha slime of its situation with the tweets and it was an interesting one because it was female on mail violins and

35:17.401 --> 35:33.805
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is a little bit different from, you know, kind of what the, we usually see in the scenario and they were very, very vocally against at least on Twitter against her and all the things and edit she's gone now what we'll see what happens down the line.

35:35.065 --> 35:44.648
[SPEAKER_00]: But she was pulled even from Indies like there she's toxic right now like nobody's touching her yeah and and that tells me that at least to a specific audience.

35:45.348 --> 35:51.869
[SPEAKER_00]: that matters to them, but I just wonder if it matters to WWE audience as a whole.

35:52.489 --> 35:59.211
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and clearly they were interested in her because she was one that was, you know, more often than not, I think probably other than Mike Santana.

35:59.731 --> 36:02.511
[SPEAKER_02]: She's been the one that's been most on WWE television.

36:02.611 --> 36:08.432
[SPEAKER_02]: She even was a special guest referee and an NXT Women's title match, I think, or might actually was a TNA title match.

36:09.313 --> 36:10.653
[SPEAKER_02]: And they brought her in as referee.

36:11.152 --> 36:11.332
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

36:11.372 --> 36:13.755
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about Ricky Saints here.

36:14.435 --> 36:27.849
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I've, I've mentioned before how much I really love Ricky Saints and I wanted him to go to the main roster and since he's been in NXT, as big of a fan as I am, I don't like his presentation.

36:27.889 --> 36:30.432
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like the show, so I haven't, I haven't really watched.

36:30.472 --> 36:34.336
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if I did watch the, that,

36:35.231 --> 36:36.171
[SPEAKER_00]: that homecoming show.

36:36.211 --> 36:41.193
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got to see his problem, which was really good, but you know, I told you the issues that I had with it.

36:41.233 --> 36:46.095
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you see the thing that where they showed him the video where he was talking to the Orleans?

36:46.435 --> 36:47.556
[SPEAKER_02]: That might have been the best good.

36:47.896 --> 36:50.036
[SPEAKER_02]: That some might been the best thing they've done with him since he got there.

36:50.377 --> 36:51.197
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was really good.

36:51.597 --> 36:52.457
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

36:52.657 --> 36:57.119
[SPEAKER_00]: And so is this him winning?

36:57.719 --> 36:59.440
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there actually steam?

37:00.872 --> 37:01.752
[SPEAKER_00]: with him winning.

37:02.512 --> 37:05.573
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is it just kind of the next chapter in the story?

37:06.453 --> 37:09.054
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's just the next chapter in the story.

37:09.494 --> 37:15.215
[SPEAKER_02]: And the funny thing is, I've seen more negativity towards him winning than I was expecting.

37:15.855 --> 37:18.876
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, and these are from fans of the show that watched the show.

37:18.936 --> 37:21.617
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, I can't believe he's a guy that beat Oba.

37:21.697 --> 37:25.438
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I guess they wanted to be trick or maybe Javan,

37:27.272 --> 37:31.857
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, no, but he else really that's at anywhere close to that level.

37:33.259 --> 37:39.746
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, they just more like, you know, it's like almost like they're think it's like nepotism in some way because he's Cody's friend.

37:41.468 --> 37:44.592
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, so in that sense, like it feels more like.

37:46.377 --> 37:59.084
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, you know, like a when Drew McIntyre one or when Bobby rude one Kevin Owens, I think even maybe like where it was like they win the title, but it's just they're gonna be going up to main roster in like three months.

37:59.184 --> 38:01.385
[SPEAKER_02]: So you know, enjoy it while you can kind of think.

38:01.866 --> 38:02.466
[SPEAKER_02]: Samo Joe.

38:03.183 --> 38:10.466
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well Joe Joe had it a couple times and, you know, and he had, you know, he actually did more than you thought he'd be.

38:10.546 --> 38:14.728
[SPEAKER_00]: But he came up and then he went back down and we were injury and then he wasn't wrestling.

38:14.748 --> 38:15.268
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

38:15.328 --> 38:18.410
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they brought him in actually at one point.

38:18.450 --> 38:20.571
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he won the title when he was on the main roster.

38:21.011 --> 38:27.033
[SPEAKER_02]: I think if I'm remembering right like they brought him in and it was he thought, oh, it's just like a match that, you know, they're just going to have and then he won.

38:27.053 --> 38:28.234
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, oh, okay.

38:29.156 --> 38:45.883
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, I, uh, so yeah, I, I, and yeah, I'm not, you know, me too, like I like Ricky Ricky Saints Ricky Stark's like I've been if I actually famously didn't like his AW debut and that's what got me and Tony, uh, because he saw that and.

38:46.423 --> 38:48.025
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, how could you not like this guy?

38:48.065 --> 38:49.486
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I explained it to him.

38:49.546 --> 38:53.449
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, like, you just had him lose in like eight minutes to Cody.

38:53.509 --> 38:56.112
[SPEAKER_02]: And last week, Jungle Boy went 15 minutes with Cody.

38:56.132 --> 38:58.233
[SPEAKER_02]: So what does that tell me, you know?

38:58.594 --> 38:59.795
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, well, stay tuned.

38:59.815 --> 39:00.776
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, yeah, of course I will.

39:00.816 --> 39:02.517
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to keep watching.

39:02.757 --> 39:05.760
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, anyways, yeah, fast forward like three years.

39:05.820 --> 39:07.942
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's having these strap matches with Danielson.

39:08.022 --> 39:09.623
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, he's like one of my favorites.

39:10.584 --> 39:28.698
[SPEAKER_02]: And I told you, and I told everybody he's going to NXT and you know, no, no, no, they're going to go, you know, I believe he should have gone to the main roster, but I also knew he wasn't good and I would expect him probably next year's mania, you know, he'll be on the main roster and then we'll see what he's got.

39:29.779 --> 39:37.345
[SPEAKER_00]: So it seems like now I'm only going to talk about the men we can talk about the women in a different segment or at a different show.

39:39.606 --> 39:57.982
[SPEAKER_00]: because the women are fantastic on NXT and they would be the reason why I stick around and watch and that's what I kind of like I'm sticking to my guns that I'm going to alleviate NXT until for me and until it gets better and then I'll and then I'll go back but the the women is really what I miss.

39:59.163 --> 40:06.069
[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, Ricky Saints, Oberfemi, trick Williams in Javan

40:07.698 --> 40:12.919
[SPEAKER_00]: feel like they are the next level to go to the main roster.

40:13.039 --> 40:20.840
[SPEAKER_00]: Ethan page can go whenever, like he's he can go now, but you know, they have him do another stuff, but I don't consider Ethan page a prospect necessarily.

40:20.860 --> 40:25.241
[SPEAKER_00]: I consider him more of a utility guy who will be very useful down the line.

40:27.982 --> 40:29.502
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you do with those four guys?

40:29.822 --> 40:34.783
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's no, I don't, I'm not saying there's no room on the main roster because you can always make room.

40:36.489 --> 40:57.906
[SPEAKER_02]: I would what I would do like I don't know I had I came up with an idea that I thought was great for Obofemi and Sammy Zain has this US open US title open challenge going on right now have Obofemi show up and destroy him and win the title and and then you give him give him like a nine months round with that belt

40:58.922 --> 41:13.404
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, and that gets him established and that tells you right away, this is a guy and people are people that don't already know him are going to be wowed and especially when the his wrestling is good his promos are better he's got that presence like, you know, it's great trick.

41:14.305 --> 41:27.192
[SPEAKER_02]: It is harder like trick you need the right angle and and then Javan he's probably going to come in like Brian Daniel Brian did I would think he's probably going to lose a lot and then get over with his wrestling.

41:28.273 --> 41:35.857
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the template there and then Ricky Saints I have no idea I have no idea what you do with him and who's the who's the better.

41:36.812 --> 42:02.822
[SPEAKER_00]: who's going to have the better WWE career if you were to put money on it over his saints car mellow haze oh uh... rickie sent i would agree but the year ago i would not have thought that it was even up for debate yeah yeah and and i i answered because that's my gut but i mean there's no yeah there's no guarantee uh... and if you're putting money on it's like

42:03.975 --> 42:25.624
[SPEAKER_02]: minus 150 for you know Ricky Saints and like plus 125 for Carmelo like and it's not that I'm saying Carmelo is that great either but Carmelo is kind of doing what I just said about Javan Evans like that's the template they're using but I think Javan is a better wrestler and a better promo then Carmelo believe it or not.

42:26.424 --> 42:42.449
[SPEAKER_02]: and Carmella's like, swimming in quicksand with this mellow don't miss and like, you know, like he's great, like, and he's that promo ability that he had in NXT, like that's gone.

42:43.089 --> 42:49.455
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know how he's not, he was seen as very important in NXT and he's seen as a midcard or in WWE.

42:49.475 --> 42:52.858
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can't cut those same main event promos when you're in the midcard.

42:53.058 --> 43:08.132
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, I mean, everybody that says that Vince made a mistake, you know, but with how he present, like how he was going to bring up Adam Cole and everything, like, and he probably did, like suggests that he should have been Keith Lee's manager, but, um,

43:09.595 --> 43:21.167
[SPEAKER_00]: what you're seeing with Carmelo Hayes is I believe what you would have seen without him call like you know like well here here's the thing right here now i'm not saying this is what Vince is thinking but if people remember in 1984

43:24.885 --> 43:39.535
[SPEAKER_00]: Roddy Piper was more manager than he was main vendor and then he is talking ability change Vince's mind on on what he could do yeah, and it was all based on size just and we remembered Leo Russian Lashley like that was the same thing.

43:39.796 --> 43:42.498
[SPEAKER_02]: Leo was his manager and Leo was outshining Lashley

43:43.378 --> 44:11.298
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, the only problem was he was so small that they couldn't like put him over anybody, but yeah, but that was like one of the highlights of that really bad era of raw was seeing those two together every week and yeah, so I mean that people looked at it like, you know, like that's all he sees down on coal, but Vince was probably like, okay, this is how I can make money with this guy, you know, and and you would eventually have yeah Adam coal and Keith Lee.

44:12.338 --> 44:19.081
[SPEAKER_00]: have issues and then you have the little man eventually beat the big man and he would have been that's how you would have gotten him over.

44:19.982 --> 44:20.922
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

44:20.962 --> 44:41.572
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a good kind of thought conversation because the way that I see TKO is I see WWE probably yearly bringing up guys like those four that I mentioned and getting rid of folks who make more money than those guys

44:42.973 --> 44:46.314
[SPEAKER_00]: Those guys are gonna work really hard because they're gonna want to get to the next level.

44:46.974 --> 44:52.036
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll be way cheaper, and you'll save money on your roster by doing it that way.

44:52.096 --> 44:59.099
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they'll, you know, all the fans will yell at them for, you know, for doing it that way when that's just how professional sports works in general.

45:00.499 --> 45:08.982
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyways, all right, last topic here and then we'll get out of here, which is the women's blood and guts match that was set up on collision.

45:10.553 --> 45:15.496
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we sure that that's, is that, has it been official that it's going to happen on that Tuesday dynamite?

45:15.977 --> 45:16.217
[SPEAKER_00]: No.

45:16.497 --> 45:16.637
[SPEAKER_00]: No.

45:16.697 --> 45:18.118
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just speculation right now.

45:18.619 --> 45:19.019
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

45:19.139 --> 45:23.582
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, well, speculation that Dave gave, so it's possible Dave heard something.

45:23.922 --> 45:24.102
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

45:24.142 --> 45:27.304
[SPEAKER_02]: But, um, I mean, Tony Shavani,

45:28.365 --> 45:30.827
[SPEAKER_02]: originally said, oh, it's going to be this Wednesday.

45:31.207 --> 45:34.810
[SPEAKER_02]: And no, no, no, no, no, no, no, sorry.

45:34.910 --> 45:35.471
[SPEAKER_02]: That was wrong.

45:35.731 --> 45:39.114
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's like a mountain of mistakes that dude makes.

45:39.234 --> 45:42.096
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so yeah, it's going to happen.

45:42.136 --> 45:46.099
[SPEAKER_02]: Like basically Jamie Hader said, there's only one way to settle this.

45:46.259 --> 45:46.600
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like,

45:47.120 --> 45:47.420
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?

45:47.600 --> 45:54.142
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, you do this every week, um, and, uh, and so at these, uh, blood and guts.

45:54.263 --> 45:59.564
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I, you know, she could have said, yeah, uh, tailgate parking lot mask.

45:59.584 --> 46:03.266
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, you know, there's so many, there's so many of these things.

46:03.306 --> 46:03.766
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

46:03.986 --> 46:07.747
[SPEAKER_02]: And, um, and, and it was, so how it came off to me.

46:08.467 --> 46:13.049
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and the funny thing is is like, okay, when the baby faces say that, the heels should

46:16.816 --> 46:20.518
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like, I mean, that was probably more a real reaction than anything else, right?

46:20.658 --> 46:21.198
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

46:21.238 --> 46:32.503
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's like when they mentioned stage, it's like when, but it reminded me of when, you know, like triple H tells the NXT women, you're going to get a war games match.

46:32.883 --> 46:35.804
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like, yay, we get a war games match.

46:35.924 --> 46:41.526
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, because it puts them on equal footing, right, and they get an opportunity to shine.

46:41.567 --> 46:43.747
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is a more of a real reaction than a

46:45.508 --> 46:54.916
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know what, my main issue with the way that they set that thing up is the way that they set it up, it felt very much like a hot shot.

46:55.456 --> 46:55.657
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

46:56.798 --> 47:06.125
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I was kind of in charge of putting that thing together, you know, let's say, you know, I don't and I don't know how Tony does it.

47:06.145 --> 47:11.810
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he's got someone booking the women's division or at least creating ideas or

47:12.455 --> 47:37.037
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, reminding Tony about where things are, but I would have wanted it to be set up a little bit more organically and I would have also like and this is my this is my real worry with this match because we know this from how WWE books evolution and this is actually a crossover promotional thing that I think actually correlates very well.

47:38.044 --> 47:44.926
[SPEAKER_00]: Evolution, both times they did it, it was super hot shot, like last minute, no real thought.

47:45.306 --> 47:51.088
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a reason that wasn't about creating this show to better the division.

47:51.468 --> 47:53.869
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a different reason in both times.

47:54.609 --> 47:58.110
[SPEAKER_00]: The first time is because they needed to do something to take

47:58.750 --> 48:09.195
[SPEAKER_00]: the steam off of the Saudi Arabia show the second time at least I'm going to guess that it was related to adding shows to to peacocks so they could get out of their deal earlier.

48:09.716 --> 48:14.158
[SPEAKER_00]: It made them a lot more reasons that in combating all in on their right.

48:14.198 --> 48:14.898
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

48:14.958 --> 48:15.138
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

48:15.258 --> 48:15.459
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

48:15.999 --> 48:16.139
[SPEAKER_00]: So

48:17.911 --> 48:28.118
[SPEAKER_00]: one seems very similar in that they needed Tuesday night main event for when they're going head to head with NXT because they're getting pushed off of their Wednesday match.

48:28.178 --> 48:31.640
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if it comes out that Tony's like, nope, we're not doing it on that show.

48:31.680 --> 48:40.505
[SPEAKER_00]: We're pushing it out to whenever, then what we're saying right now is false, but we're going with the idea that that's why this match was set up.

48:41.386 --> 48:41.546
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

48:42.006 --> 48:42.687
[SPEAKER_00]: I worry.

48:44.137 --> 48:45.918
[SPEAKER_00]: that it's not going to have enough star power.

48:46.098 --> 48:57.143
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that may be good for the women that you just talked about who are really excited to do the match because they're kind of just in the middle and it would give them an opportunity to wrestle in a very important match.

48:57.953 --> 49:16.652
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just worried about how that match gets perceived if it doesn't draw the television rating that it would draw if Tony storm in Mina and Mercedes were at the center of it rather than Jamie Hader against Tecla.

49:17.495 --> 49:20.178
[SPEAKER_00]: and J. B. Hainer and Queen Mnodd against Teclin, her crew.

49:20.738 --> 49:27.024
[SPEAKER_00]: That that feud being the reason for this match to kick off does not feel like a main event.

49:27.485 --> 49:37.094
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if I'm looking at this from the perspective of we want to make this thing a spectacle, we want to elevate this thing and it's finally we have a women's win the fans have been asking about it.

49:38.515 --> 49:45.677
[SPEAKER_00]: I would want my main Avengers in it because just by having your main Avengers in it and your stars, it just elevates the concept.

49:46.017 --> 49:51.838
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like WWE is not going to run the war games at Survivor Series.

49:52.738 --> 49:56.199
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to run it with the Wyatt Six, right?

49:56.239 --> 49:58.139
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to run it with their main Avengers.

49:58.719 --> 49:58.959
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

49:59.260 --> 50:00.820
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that would be my worry now.

50:01.914 --> 50:04.015
[SPEAKER_00]: Those made of vendors may be in it.

50:04.075 --> 50:06.676
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know what the teams will learn about the teams.

50:07.036 --> 50:10.618
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I know what the teams are going to be like based on the history.

50:10.678 --> 50:14.000
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I, you know, again, I shouldn't say I think I know, but I think I can guess.

50:14.820 --> 50:17.481
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, obviously the five that were brought up.

50:17.561 --> 50:21.503
[SPEAKER_02]: It was, um, Tecla and Almanada on the baby face side.

50:21.603 --> 50:29.107
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you can add Harley and Chris that lander to that because they've been in all of these hardcore matches that they do and then probably willow.

50:30.447 --> 50:36.732
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's your five and then on the on the heel side you've got the three in the triangle of madness or whatever they're called.

50:38.133 --> 50:44.678
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is the name actually and then probably Megan Bane and Penelope Ford would be my guess.

50:45.638 --> 50:48.081
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I guess Bane is good.

50:48.201 --> 50:49.182
[SPEAKER_02]: Bane is good at that.

50:49.262 --> 50:50.843
[SPEAKER_02]: And Ford is probably the pin eater.

50:52.645 --> 50:54.947
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, so then you got five on five.

50:54.967 --> 50:56.188
[SPEAKER_02]: You got the world champion in there.

50:56.208 --> 51:02.394
[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got a possibility of setting up something that can play into like a fur next match.

51:02.714 --> 51:06.338
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like if she gets pinned or if someone on her on the heel team gets the win,

51:07.491 --> 51:10.454
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I, but here's the problem.

51:10.594 --> 51:13.477
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is why I wouldn't put your big stars in it.

51:13.697 --> 51:15.819
[SPEAKER_02]: You're Tony storming your Mercedes.

51:17.420 --> 51:18.481
[SPEAKER_02]: That show's going to die.

51:19.062 --> 51:21.564
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it doesn't matter if you put Tony in Mercedes in it.

51:22.004 --> 51:23.746
[SPEAKER_02]: They're on a, they're on the wrong night.

51:24.126 --> 51:25.708
[SPEAKER_02]: They're ahead to head with NXT.

51:26.488 --> 51:32.134
[SPEAKER_02]: NXT is doing the invasion show, which is going to be two five on five matches.

51:34.088 --> 51:48.235
[SPEAKER_02]: TNA against NXT men's and women's, it will be all their top stars on both teams like I don't know who the teams are going to be, but I know how they do this and it's going to be their top stars and then they're also doing a title for title tag team match and they're bringing in the hardy boys.

51:49.070 --> 51:49.270
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

51:49.990 --> 51:52.331
[SPEAKER_02]: So like they're not fooling around.

51:52.732 --> 51:59.475
[SPEAKER_00]: That, you know, even though I, that that sounds like a pretty good for an NXT show.

51:59.515 --> 52:01.576
[SPEAKER_00]: I still think they need to bring someone from the main roster.

52:02.216 --> 52:10.059
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and maybe they do like for these 515 matches, but they mean, no, I'm trying to think, that's the week they go to Perth.

52:10.499 --> 52:13.001
[SPEAKER_02]: So they may not be able to, yeah, yeah.

52:13.161 --> 52:16.742
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, maybe if there's some leftovers that aren't going to Perth, it's like,

52:19.103 --> 52:21.886
[SPEAKER_00]: AJ Lee isn't going to perth out.

52:21.906 --> 52:22.146
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

52:22.206 --> 52:22.927
[SPEAKER_00]: AJ Lee on that.

52:23.087 --> 52:23.808
[SPEAKER_00]: NXT show.

52:24.849 --> 52:27.892
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or yeah, obviously re is going.

52:30.254 --> 52:32.957
[SPEAKER_02]: Oscar, you know, I don't, I don't imagine she's going to perth.

52:33.905 --> 52:36.686
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't know, I don't think AJ Lee needs to be in that match.

52:36.726 --> 52:39.326
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, but I would like, no, just to start power.

52:39.366 --> 52:41.647
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's going to come on this show.

52:41.727 --> 52:48.588
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you have all these women who are wrestling today, who were inspired by her and you can do a really fun segment like that.

52:49.028 --> 53:02.831
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or she could be like a coach, you could do that, you know, but, but I, yeah, I think it's going to be like you're, you know, like everybody they have, like your men's team is probably going to be like trick Ricky Saints, um, Ethan Page,

53:03.631 --> 53:07.654
[SPEAKER_02]: Javan Evans, and Oberfemi, you know, like, I mean, that's it.

53:07.694 --> 53:08.455
[SPEAKER_02]: That's probably your five.

53:08.555 --> 53:08.675
[SPEAKER_01]: All 13.

53:08.755 --> 53:10.136
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

53:10.236 --> 53:18.683
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the women, you know, the women's equivalent to that Jordan Grace, more, Moriame, you know, Blake Monroe, Jason Jane, you know, like they've actually got people.

53:19.223 --> 53:21.465
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, and then the TNA probably doesn't even matter.

53:22.606 --> 53:25.208
[SPEAKER_02]: TNA, you know, but they'll be some names people know.

53:25.428 --> 53:26.769
[SPEAKER_02]: Man's Warner, come on.

53:26.809 --> 53:26.929
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

53:27.410 --> 53:30.993
[SPEAKER_02]: But then it's like you've got AW, which is building this thing as title Tuesday.

53:31.753 --> 53:33.654
[SPEAKER_02]: And then now we think, oh, it's going to be blood and guts.

53:33.674 --> 53:34.834
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're, we're about the titles.

53:35.334 --> 53:40.416
[SPEAKER_02]: So you probably do need to have those champions in other matches, defending their titles.

53:40.656 --> 53:41.856
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess by the least.

53:42.236 --> 53:44.537
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, probably Mercedes, probably co-fletcher.

53:44.757 --> 53:52.439
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they really should kick off the women's tag team tournament, too, which they had as the special announcement, then didn't even really talk about it.

53:52.539 --> 53:54.760
[SPEAKER_00]: I did like, yeah, what was it?

53:55.160 --> 53:58.041
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it Tamello who cut the promo on collision?

53:58.101 --> 53:59.522
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they should do more of that.

54:00.802 --> 54:01.703
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in this thing.

54:01.803 --> 54:03.724
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she lied, but it was great.

54:04.584 --> 54:05.945
[SPEAKER_02]: They called themselves the OGs.

54:06.206 --> 54:07.306
[SPEAKER_02]: They had a tag to you in turn.

54:07.346 --> 54:08.967
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember I called it the Brandy Bowl.

54:09.588 --> 54:12.630
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, yeah, it was like, it was on YouTube or something.

54:12.750 --> 54:13.650
[SPEAKER_02]: It was all on YouTube.

54:13.870 --> 54:14.191
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, good.

54:14.211 --> 54:16.732
[SPEAKER_02]: And the winners was Diomonté and Evelyce.

54:17.192 --> 54:20.655
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but Brandy made it still the finals.

54:20.715 --> 54:21.655
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember who were a partner.

54:21.695 --> 54:22.576
[SPEAKER_02]: It might have been like awesome

54:26.218 --> 54:26.699
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

54:27.019 --> 54:37.508
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it was yeah, but that day, but that was like they had a tag team tournament and back then and I think people have that time thought they might do tag team titles for the women, but I guess they just didn't have the depths back there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they should have some interviews with the team so that so at least we know even if Tony hasn't created the

54:44.474 --> 54:45.474
[SPEAKER_00]: the tournament brackets yet.

54:45.534 --> 54:48.415
[SPEAKER_00]: We know the teams that are like vying to be into this thing.

54:48.475 --> 54:51.436
[SPEAKER_02]: They showed, like they did a video and they showed some teams.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like so you got Megan and Penelope shown.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think Mina and Tony.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think Mina and Tony are probably going to be in the tournament and I wouldn't be surprised if they want.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They should probably win it or at least be in the finals.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but maybe even win it to establish it because that and that also keeps Tony out of the world title picture because she's going to over shine anybody that she's in there with so it's probably a good idea to let Chris kind of cook for a little while.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, all right, that is it for this week in on the take down.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I know you're going to be off at some point in the near future, so on a Monday.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, unless we do it like we could do it like we did tonight to like okay, we can do it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we can do it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's just I can't record during the day that that week.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, totally fine.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this this time generally works pretty well for me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It also.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like three weeks from now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we got time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, cool.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that is it from here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to our faves Fernando, Maria Graciella, love you folks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Really enjoy it when I see y'all in the chat.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Even if I don't post all of your notes, I am reading all of them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So keep doing that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, we'll be back next week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: talking about all the stuff and previewing that Tuesday night affair because we will record the day before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So there will be more information out by then.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, four Paul.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I am double G. We will see you when we see you piece out.