WWE PLEs Should Be Better, AEW Full Gear Thoughts | Takedown

0:10 [SPEAKER_01]: welcome back to take down Paul Fontaine and myself double G. We're going to go over some of the bigger stories in the week of wrestling. [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to start this by saying Thursday, I think it's close to a hundred percent. [SPEAKER_01]: Brian Alvarez is going to jump on with me for the [SPEAKER_01]: Every time I talk to him on a something like this, I like to grill him about the F4W community and if he realizes how long he's been doing this and he's a little bit of a pioneer in this space and I'm not sure.

0:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm sure we would have all figured out how to podcast, but [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he turned it into his own business at a very early time and when that stuff was going on. [SPEAKER_01]: So hopefully, I will check with him on Thursday morning. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just based on if nothing changes with his schedule, he'll be able to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: It'll probably be around 530 Pacific for us to go live on YouTube. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you can't be with us live on YouTube, it'll be up in the podcast feed later that evening. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: So, since we last chatted, there was a WWE PLE.

1:31 [SPEAKER_01]: There was a collision that I did not watch, but it was on a boat. [SPEAKER_01]: And what else? [SPEAKER_01]: Is that it? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's back down. [SPEAKER_01]: There was a SmackDown. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's SmackDown. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a UFC. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a wrong thing on the UFC. [SPEAKER_00]: The main event was really good. [SPEAKER_00]: Dave kind of talked about it on on on Wrestling Observer and said people so watch it I mean, there was some other stuff that we'll talk about There's raw, which I haven't seen And NXT tonight, which I haven't seen, but Yeah, and triple A finished off heroes in more tallest and [SPEAKER_00]: I swear to God, like WWE does so many disgusting things, but there was an angle on there that I mean, if some years it would have won most disgusting, the observer, like where like one of the heels said he was accusing Ray of forcing his wrestlers to travel to a foreign country and face dangerous circumstances.

2:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's talking about the United States. [SPEAKER_00]: at the same time as the WWE wrestlers are going to Saudi in the middle of a war. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That was, I just, I couldn't believe it. [SPEAKER_00]: And nobody's talking about it because nobody watches. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's why you can get away with it, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And then he accused Ray of having an affair with his mom. [SPEAKER_00]: I heard a lot that looks. [SPEAKER_00]: Looks like she might be a hundred. [SPEAKER_01]: That's his excuse for raving the GM and not him right. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I put the fans loved it. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, whatever I mean, they hated it, but you know what I mean, yeah, it got over it got over and so what is upcoming tomorrow is AEW dynamite and you and Jeff will be [SPEAKER_01]: going live after the first two hours of yeah, we'll get to head with collision because it is a three-hour show my least favorite version of a whole of dynamite and then Sunday we have the A.E.W.

3:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Full-gear paves the sun. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry Saturday. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Saturday and the UFC show at the same time. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah, it's a lot of stuff man. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like there might be like a I think there's a TNA favorite of you this weekend too Is there I think so yeah of all the like of all the weeks Yeah, why would you go ahead up against AEW and UFC? [SPEAKER_00]: I think so it's because that's the week they got you know like they don't know the schedule ahead of time They book they book their shows like six months in advance [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, I'm pretty sure they're an Edmonton this weekend. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Good for Lance. [SPEAKER_00]: You can drive to the show. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's kick it off. [SPEAKER_00]: What is your number five story of the week?

4:15 [SPEAKER_00]: My number five is, uh, so we talked about the scene a classic last week. [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, and, uh, I speculated something that turned out to be right. [SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to just, [SPEAKER_00]: Which is that there's no tournament that there's no tournament. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is just going to be random matches and that's kind of what I Turd and what they said on the show, but then everyone was talking about a tournament, so I You know, I wasn't sure, but I you know, and yeah, so I don't and now that said like I don't really understand it And I imagine the thing that really gets me is and nobody's really mentioned this. [SPEAKER_00]: I've heard a few people talking about it [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like whoever wrestles first is probably gonna have a pretty good advantage in winning this thing because they're just telling a votes.

5:00 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that I think they only have a limited time to vote. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like five minutes or something. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't hear that detail. [SPEAKER_00]: If that's the case kid, that clears that up. [SPEAKER_00]: But still, like I think as the show goes on, then maybe it'll be the other way around. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe the person goes on this last. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, more people are watching, you know, people like to save in their vote. [SPEAKER_00]: I used to be like the American Idol, like, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, here's a question, though. [SPEAKER_01]: How many subscribers do you think club WWE has? [SPEAKER_00]: Probably somewhere between 1500,000. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: And how many people do you think we've watching that show live to vote?

5:43 [SPEAKER_00]: of people that will pay WW a hundred dollars a month a hundred dollars a year to be club WD members probably a pretty good percentage. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, at least over 50, but still Yeah, you're not a people who can vote. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's say there's yeah, there's something maybe 25,000 people So there's gonna be some large swings like you can actually swing a vote with just 25,000 people [SPEAKER_00]: But those 25,000 sickos probably are just going to fall in line and vote for who they're supposed to would be my guess. [SPEAKER_00]: The ill-fought twos winning this belt, like I didn't even know I like I would put money on that. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, here's two questions. [SPEAKER_01]: One, do you think, if you think the idea has been this idea the entire time since the inception of when they announced it?

6:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think I think it was something like this. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, because the reason why I asked that is because when John Cena explained to the John Cena classic, why didn't he just say, remember that night on Saturday night's main event when I had my last match and we had all of those NXT guys on. [SPEAKER_01]: this is what we're going to do. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do it again guys. [SPEAKER_00]: Why didn't they just say that's basically what it is. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't know because maybe they hadn't finalized it yet, but that was the idea because if you listen, if you go back and listen to what he originally said, [SPEAKER_00]: It does sound enough a lot like this, although obviously they hadn't flushed out the details yet.

7:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, at the time. [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, like I think at the time, like the idea of voting, I think probably just came up because they were also introducing Club WWE and thought, oh, this might be a good way to get people to sign up. [SPEAKER_00]: And so if we and and I think at the time that they announced it wasn't the rumor that he was actually going to be announcing club WWE and then rather than do that because it had already been spoiled they did this I even know it was probably six months early to announce this thing yeah I don't know any the and the other thing about it is. [SPEAKER_01]: Like if this was the idea. [SPEAKER_01]: It is very simple and is not convoluted.

7:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is something that he's like talked around for forever, so I have to imagine that they had a different idea and maybe it was a little bit more intuitive as far as fan voting and such. [SPEAKER_00]: But how many people do you think are going to go on Twitter and go, I vote for somebody, like, you know, like they did in TNA when they did this member they used to, they had a gimmick where they, uh, they would have voting for a week and then whoever won the vote would get a title shot and everyone kept voting for Desmond Wolfe. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not just against even though he wasn't being pushed. [SPEAKER_00]: And so they kind of gave up on that, like real quick, but he did get it.

8:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he got a [SPEAKER_01]: do you think they will keep it exactly like it is or do you think they will change it between now and then. [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a good chance it gets changed. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, some details that they could decide that are, oh, we need to do it this way for whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I think that when they said this, the idea is that this is what they're going to do, but I definitely think that they are very [SPEAKER_00]: sensitive to what people say online. [SPEAKER_00]: And if they sense that people are going into this with a closed mind and thinking that it's not going to work, they may, they may change it to make it more Amiable to the people that are watching or at least the loud people that are talking about it.

9:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so then go ahead. [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a good chance to change this. [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't bet on it, but I think there's a decent chance going back to voting. [SPEAKER_01]: If this was like the mid 2000s [SPEAKER_01]: and taboo Tuesday, I think that they could think ahead of their fans and get their fans to vote the way that they want. [SPEAKER_01]: But we've seen in different times that they have not been able to do that, like remember when the original NXT was about voting and the person who they wanted to win was not the person who ended up winning. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, low key in season two. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and season one. [SPEAKER_01]: I do wonder now maybe what we're talking about if you make the pool of voters small and really the folks who are just willing to spend every last dollar that they have on WW maybe they will be easily programmed themselves.

10:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But if there's only 25,000, let's say there's 50,000. [SPEAKER_01]: and somebody just is unhappy with the product and all of a sudden we get sunjaya winning going back to your American Idol. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but then I think the other thing is doesn't even matter. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, oh great, they get this meaning was belt and it's never mentioned again. [SPEAKER_00]: And then do it. [SPEAKER_01]: And then if it's the wrong person who wins, then that person gets buried most likely. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then what happens then they're gonna get over. [SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna be funny. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't do it again the next year They just okay, so there's one and done and that's it. [SPEAKER_00]: Now if it works the way they wanted to work, they'll bring it back the one year John Cena classic [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

10:58 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: I have one, I have a John Cena one coming as well. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, okay, in a couple. [SPEAKER_01]: But my, my number five and this just happened recently, at least the news came out recently and it kind of made me a little sad not not sad from the perspective of like, oh, I'm going to miss this person, but it just made me think about my child a little bit the passing of Jim heard. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I didn't hear about that. [SPEAKER_01]: So Jim heard past away [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think Conrad Thompson is the one who broke the news on his podcast and I think I'm right about this because I saw it on F4W online that that he passed away, but he is not remembered very well.

11:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, he ran WCW in a time frame where they were coming out of, uh, you know, the crocket era. [SPEAKER_01]: WWE F had pretty much eaten their, you know, eaten their lunch and crock itself to Ted Turner, and then Jim heard comes over and so it's from 1989. [SPEAKER_01]: He's got everything and, um, oh, I guess Dave Meltzer wrote that it was three weeks ago. [SPEAKER_01]: He died three weeks ago. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. [SPEAKER_01]: it wasn't successful, he, you know, I think he admitted that it wasn't successful like he understood that the things that he tried to do didn't really work.

12:32 [SPEAKER_01]: But I still remember those times so fondly because [SPEAKER_01]: I was watching WWE F but there was an alternative product that was on with different stars and different lighting and different kind of matches and you know, I watched the NWA pretty much from like bits and pieces of 9 of 85 and 86 but really from 87 on and I [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm still young. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a teenager. [SPEAKER_01]: I could tell some of the stuff is really dumb like the ding-dongs, of course. [SPEAKER_01]: I could see that they were trying to do some things that maybe were a little WWF copycat that didn't work.

13:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But still, you had Rick Flair, you had staying. [SPEAKER_01]: You had Lex Luger. [SPEAKER_01]: I was in, man, like, that's all I really needed. [SPEAKER_01]: So, like, as a kid, I'm not really thinking that it's not great, but of course business wise, you know, when you're reading stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: when you're reading stuff later when I sort of learn about the observer and such then you're like oh I didn't realize that that stuff was not really good not working very well so yeah it just it just made me think about those those times in like 89 and 90 and 91 where my wrestling fandom was at a peak man I was watching as much as I could I couldn't get enough of it and and Jim heard was running dbcw at that time [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we didn't get WCW here until like 91.

14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was probably in the middle of his run. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I didn't really know the name at the time. [SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe it was mentioned in the wrestling magazines a little bit, but you know, just in compete. [SPEAKER_00]: But I've obviously read a lot about them since. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm right now, I'm actually reading the 89 programs or compilations, so I'm reading all the thing. [SPEAKER_00]: And man, like, [SPEAKER_00]: a good portion of every single week is just slamming jibberish for that. [SPEAKER_00]: And the readers hate it them. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, but I think, you know, they, they wanted, they were still pushing for WCW to succeed because they hated WWF even more. [SPEAKER_00]: The readers, that is. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that publication in China too.

14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that publication in general is an anti-WWF fact then. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I mean, people will say it is now, you know, depending on which side of the Al, you're on now. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's more balanced now, obviously, but back then, back then, Dave was pretty negative on WWE F. And he didn't really love, and he was more into Japan, obviously, at the time. [SPEAKER_00]: Mexico. [SPEAKER_00]: not as much, but a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: He was basically trying to expand everyone's horizons. [SPEAKER_00]: But, yeah, Jim heard, you know, it felt like he was kind of, he was a TV executive that was brought in to run a wrestling company. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the problem. [SPEAKER_00]: He just wasn't really suited for it. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I guess Bishop took over for him, right?

15:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Or I don't know if it's a direct timeline. [SPEAKER_00]: But it might have been Kip Fry, might have been in there. [SPEAKER_01]: Kip was in there, I think Dusty comes back. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, Dusty was under Jim though. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Dusty comes back to work for Jim, you're right in the 1991. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, he and before too, like because he had just been fired when when I where I'm picking up right now in February of 89, and then he left to go start up Florida again. [SPEAKER_00]: And then he brought in. [SPEAKER_00]: It was, it was [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, George South, he brought in, I think it was. [SPEAKER_00]: And Dave was a very critical of that too, but that was a gym heard call. [SPEAKER_00]: That George South was gonna run things, but it was all like doing what Jim heard one.

16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It these guys weren't booking for the fans. [SPEAKER_00]: They were booking for Jim Hurr. [SPEAKER_00]: That was the problem. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, your job, man. [SPEAKER_00]: And we've talked about that even in the present day, where people are booking for, you know, I mean, they're booking for Nick Con or, area manual rather than their fans. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Jake says that there's an interview with Jim heard on Conrad's Conrad did it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a Conrad guy, so I don't really like listening to Conrad stuff, but folks who are, you know, the that you opportunity to listen to, to Jim heard tell his side. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, what is your number four?

16:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Number four was, you know, interesting development this week. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure what it means if it means anything, but the punk losing twice on television in the span of like, you know, while four days, I guess it was a week, it was, or no, three days. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was, yeah, because one was tape Monday, aired Friday, and the other one was live on Wednesday. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, he he lost to Grayson Waller on NXT and then he loses to Kevin Owens on SmackDown and I mean, you know, both had, you know, they weren't entirely clean, but, you know, it was still, you know, he laid down for the three count and typically that would mean like when somebody of his stature is putting people over.

17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: usually means they're about to win a title or they're out in their way out the door. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think he's on his way out the door. [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like there's something big. [SPEAKER_00]: But title is going to win. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Sammies? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't think he's winning Romans. [SPEAKER_00]: That's, you know, that I think Roman and Obo is set in stone and we're not getting any movement there until WrestleMania. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so, but if I mean, you've all scoped him out there and I don't know, like I, it just felt like it may be there's nothing to it. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's just, you know, he doesn't mind losing anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I mean, he's never really, he's, I've never really heard anything about, it was more about how he's presented that he doesn't like sometimes as opposed to like winning and losing.

18:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, so I don't think he would have necessarily said I'm not doing it, you know, to put over a grace and wallet or third lawyers involved and some of his AEW matches though. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, was it about the results or was it about like just in general, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Like I remember a moxley match. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, where there was like some threatening going on. [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that, but yeah, you're I mean, yeah, and yeah, and we were here in things that some that weren't even necessarily not everybody heard, but [SPEAKER_00]: like yeah the the yeah the the backstage stuff surrounding that whole period when he was injured and he came back and he won the title and lost it like two days later like or whatever it was you know with with moxley where they did the switches mm-hmm yeah that yeah I didn't ask to talk about that but it just like in WWE like you know [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin Owens, that's the one though, because I mean, those guys don't like each other.

19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that, you know, like that's, I mean, they've probably, I mean, they obviously, they've smooth things over enough to work together, but him and him putting them over, I mean, at the very least, they're going to have a third match. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would think, you know, so that's something, because I know when that match was originally done, the idea was it was going to be a one off. [SPEAKER_00]: Like they weren't going to do it again, even though the match looked like it was set up to do a [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone involved said, no, this is a one and done and they quickly moved on from it, but then they came back to it. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, who knows? [SPEAKER_00]: But I just found it interesting that you lost twice and we haven't heard any issues. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, unless you have, I certainly haven't. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

19:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, he's not threatened by Waller for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: And, and Owens, probably not really threatened too much by Owens either. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I gave him kudos on our last show when it came to NXT, that he was the only main roster guy who was like serious about his job. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, you did that little skit with, uh, was it shallow? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, casino really kind of buried Cam Hendrix a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, my next one, and I think you have this on your list too, which was the NXT versus AEW and the ratings came out. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's my number one. [SPEAKER_00]: So. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So why don't we save it for number one, then?

20:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: I will, um, I will move one of my, uh, or I want to my down. [SPEAKER_01]: Does John Cena matter? [SPEAKER_01]: when it comes to audience and WWE. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's kind of related to the number one, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so because, I mean, and you probably also been a reference to the raw number from November 2nd, which was the show that he had been advertised for. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little harder with that number because they're going heads up with Monday night football, like it's a little hard to get. [SPEAKER_00]: But they go heads up with Monday and football every week. [SPEAKER_00]: So at least until February or at least till January, but the only thing you can compare it to is the previous week, or you know, the previous couple weeks, but it's also reliant on how big of a game it is on Monday night football and but traditionally he would have made a difference, it doesn't matter what the game was, I mean, obviously if it was a week a game, he would have made more of a difference, but if you look back historically when he was an active wrestler, he made a difference.

21:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And he did it make a difference here. [SPEAKER_00]: And he did it make a difference with NXT. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, we don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, perhaps it would have been even lower if he wasn't on the 18 to 49 was high. [SPEAKER_00]: So that could have been that could have been a result of C nine punk, you know, and it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: It with the number of total viewers they did you would think that the that the 18 to 49 would have been like a zero point eight or zero point nine and it was a zero point one three so these old guys are who the youngsters tune in for [SPEAKER_00]: Know the other way around. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You're right. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's always been like that and remember when when Dave used to do the quarters, it was always like Rick Flair.

22:28 [SPEAKER_01]: You're hoping for the ones that were going to move the 18 to 49 like he did. [SPEAKER_00]: You did. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's so I named with raw. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't actually get that breakdown. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, it's assumed that it's probably a really high percentage of 18 to probably way more higher percentage of 18 to 49 watching on Netflix than we're watching on USA, we we don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure I think we know we don't have the number, but I think we know. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like if if Smackdown is getting a point to five to point three every week, Roz probably doing at least that if not more more. [SPEAKER_00]: I was everything with half the audience. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, they may be doing more, I think they're over 50 numbers, like zero, not zero, but pretty close to zero.

23:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, like probably TNA numbers, you know, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So back to Cena. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I don't think I don't think he's makes it there. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't people want to people know what they're going to get. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so because of the trick is that he's in a wrestling anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And. [SPEAKER_01]: Last year was all about this last time you ever gonna see this dude and now this year They're like, hey, guess who's coming back? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're gonna see him and his jorts his John Cena and like I think John Cena as a You know for me, I go, oh, that's kind of cool to see what he's doing, but it's not like oh man [SPEAKER_01]: wonder what he's gonna do like you know how when the rock yeah comes out or you know Austin doesn't comes out rarely but what will see that's the difference between you can rock and Austin and Cena if rock and Austin are gonna be on the show [SPEAKER_00]: You know you're going to be entertained.

24:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Rock's going to cut a great promo. [SPEAKER_00]: He's probably going to interact with some young guy and put him over in a way, but ultimately get the better of him. [SPEAKER_00]: Austin's going to stun her somebody, going to drink some beer, he's going to say hell yeah, and tell story and everyone's going to go what? [SPEAKER_00]: And John Cena's just going to go out there and be John Cena and not even, this isn't even the John Cena that was a good promo that made you interested in matches. [SPEAKER_00]: It's corporate John Cena. [SPEAKER_00]: going out there to, he might as well be like, I don't even know, like, Johnny A's like, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's just a corporate chill is what he is and everybody knows it. [SPEAKER_00]: So why would you tune in to see that? [SPEAKER_01]: Here's what it made me think.

24:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking far into the future. [SPEAKER_01]: Which guys on the roster today? [SPEAKER_01]: If they go away, [SPEAKER_01]: And let's say, in 10 years, yeah, you're bringing back someone from the current roster. [SPEAKER_01]: Who will the fans miss enough for them to be meaningful? [SPEAKER_01]: I think Punk is smart. [SPEAKER_01]: He would be one, but he also, it seems like he wants to work in WWE, which means he may be on TV often, just in NXT or whatever, but he would be one.

25:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's probably the smartest out of everybody when it comes to this because he's even around on his in doing his job. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: I think he would he's meaningful as well. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: Those are the two I thought of and Orton is the other one. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe but does Orton even move ratings today? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he does today, but I think he would, if he was gone for a long time and came back. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he has like when he's been gone and come back. [SPEAKER_00]: I think there is a small movement, ticket sales, he's moved tickets in St. Louis. [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen that. [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen like when he's come back on SmackDown. [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen the odd time when he's moved ratings. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think like, because you think you'll get, you'll probably get in our kale.

26:21 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean like he'll probably doing that RKO till he's 60 if not if not longer because that's that's that looks like it'll be painful Could be could be but you know you can take maybe the pond dollars and maybe six months seven do the pond from now The pun Cody I don't think so [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Cody would have to go away for a long time, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's kind of overexposed as it is right now. [SPEAKER_00]: And he'd be like, Cena, you know where, where you know what you're going to get. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, maybe like, and for women, like maybe like a Becky, you know, could it could be like a triastratus? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if she's smart, if she's smart, I think she, I think that could be a good one. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, Charlotte, I don't think so. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think if Mercedes slash Sasha ever comes back, I think got to be a big deal, I don't for a little bit.

27:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I think. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And then if she disappears and comes back, I think it could be a big deal for a week or two, you know, like that kind of thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just, you know, now we're talking about all time greats and rock and Austin. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I just think with so much content these guys are working so far into the 40s [SPEAKER_01]: we see them over and over and over and over again. [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, you know, even not many. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you think back to the 2000s, like, feel like they had guys coming out every week, you know, like you'd have the papers and the flares and the dusties and the foley's and, you know, and even like Bob Orton came back for like, you know, I run with Randy and Chavo Sr. and, you know, there's a lot of those guys and they just, those people don't exist now, you know?

28:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, no, I'd say that's a very good question. [SPEAKER_00]: I've thought about that actually at times. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right, what's your next one? [SPEAKER_00]: My next one is Marcus matters. [SPEAKER_00]: Believe it or not. [SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_00]: I, so I, you know, when I heard that he got, I don't, I don't know if cut is the right word. [SPEAKER_00]: He was WWE did not renew his WWE ID, IE, I, WWE ID deal. [SPEAKER_00]: Now I don't know if that was his decision if he turned down an offer or if they, I don't think they cut him, but it may have expired and then they didn't renew it or they may have offered him a deal and he turned it down.

28:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of those two things, but either way he left WWE, he was in their system for, I think, a year, year and a half, and he was good. [SPEAKER_00]: But I remember watching him and thinking, and I saw a lot of him on the Indies as well. [SPEAKER_00]: I tallied it up, and I've seen almost 50 matches of his in the last three years. [SPEAKER_00]: And most of them have been outside of WWE. [SPEAKER_00]: And I always thought he was a terrible fit for WWE. [SPEAKER_00]: He just like he was good wrestler, second generation, knows the business, can get himself over. [SPEAKER_00]: All that is great. [SPEAKER_00]: But you look at his size, and it was gonna be a hindrance there and his promos. [SPEAKER_00]: This guy shows up in Ring of Honor.

29:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He has a match with Mark Davis on last week's Ring of Honor, and you look at that on paper and you think, okay, it's probably going to be a good match, and Mark Davis is going to win, and that's that. [SPEAKER_00]: And then he's on our way, and maybe he's on a prayer appearance, maybe he's signed whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: This fricking match they had. [SPEAKER_00]: I, it was better than most matches you'll see on Dynamite. [SPEAKER_00]: It would have been the best match on probably like 60% of the Dynamite shows this year. [SPEAKER_00]: It would have been no worse than the second or third best on any episode of Dynamite. [SPEAKER_00]: It was incredible this guy and then this is what reminded me and I started thinking back to matches And I look back over the matches. [SPEAKER_00]: I'd seen everything and I thought of it I've seen them work as a heel and as a baby face I've seen them work against big guys small guys and guys the same size as him and girls by the way, too And this guy can get over with any crowd [SPEAKER_00]: and he is he can get the crowd to react to him the way he wants to and the people that work with him seem invested into making it work whether that is putting him over or putting himself over but also putting him over at the same time.

30:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just so impressed with him. [SPEAKER_00]: And then he showed that he wrestling on collision as well, and he had a really good match with Nick Wayne wasn't nearly as good as a match with Mark Davis on Ring of Honor. [SPEAKER_00]: And I just thought like they've got something here. [SPEAKER_00]: The guy's 23 years old. [SPEAKER_00]: He's already had over 800 matches in his career. [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he started in 2019. [SPEAKER_00]: So he was 16 when he started. [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, he's just been working everywhere. [SPEAKER_00]: And he sends out that list every month of who's wrestled the most matches and whatever thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he sent that out today, Marcus matters, wrestled the most matches in October of anybody in North America.

31:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So he is, he's just out there wrestling all the time and getting better. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think they've got something with this guy. [SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't seen him and I assume you haven't, you might be thinking he's like a rascal, but he's more like a dragon off. [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say he's like dragging off, but he's more like dragging off than he is like the rascals. [SPEAKER_00]: This guy will work with anybody and he's going to have a good match with anybody and I think like I'm not saying he's going to be a future-world champion, but you know like I think it's like floor is like Mike Bailey, you know like he's going to be that good. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and potentially even better if he, if he gets the other stuff together and he's in the perfect place, he's in the absolute perfect place in in a w at assuming they let him to continue to do indies because he seems to want to.

32:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I was just really impressed with with Mark's matters. [SPEAKER_00]: Great signing for you, don't you? [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but where does it get slotted? [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's going to be like that guy that that comes on and has great matches with people. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the key is do they eventually do they relatively soon put him over. [SPEAKER_00]: I suggested like I think he should win like one of those belts in our OH and and you know be there for a little while and then show up on on [SPEAKER_00]: But he's got to win occasionally on eight W television. [SPEAKER_00]: He can't just lose good matches every week or every two weeks or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: He's got to win or people want to take him seriously.

32:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I could see him in a year from now being where Nick Wayne is now, you know, which isn't that bad place. [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, in that list that you mentioned of most matches in US Canada for October, yeah, two people with the last name Grayson are tied for second. [SPEAKER_01]: Stu, no, JP and Tommy, whomever those guys are. [SPEAKER_00]: They're the Grayson Brothers, actually. [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen them. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've seen them in the rest of the in wrestling where they're revolver and GCW. [SPEAKER_00]: Ray Phoenix, number seven. [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, A-A-A-A-N, W-E, that's surprising, that W-E person made it on that list.

33:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, yep. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, my next one. [SPEAKER_00]: is full gear. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have that on my list because I knew you were going to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: I know I should be super psyched for the show. [SPEAKER_01]: I know that will offspring Kyle Fletcher is going to be amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: I have an interesting curiosity to see what Copeland and O'Cott are going to do. [SPEAKER_01]: I have an interesting, I have an interested curiosity in if Mercedes can and Marina have good chemistry.

34:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm baffled, and I've said this before, at having two more super violent matches being the [SPEAKER_01]: After we just saw blood and guts, after we've had so many matches that you were guys get busted open. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like feeling that I get numb two things, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like I should be interested in what I'm watching. [SPEAKER_01]: I shouldn't feel like all of this stuff that they're doing just doesn't work because I've seen it so much.

34:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Anarchy in the arena may be it'll be creative and maybe it'll be a little different and that that will be good this Texas death match Maybe it it may be they'll save a lot of the You know a lot of the stuff just for hangman and and sort of and the other guys just Russell. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know like but like when I think about What I'm looking forward to Those two things are not it and I feel like a bad wrestling fan [SPEAKER_01]: because I'm like, this match that is supposed to be great. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just not interested in it at all, like literally at all, like if it was up to me, and I didn't do any of this, like what we do here, and I didn't do wrestlers of a radio, I think I would watch like three matches on the show, four maybe, and just not watch the rest of it.

35:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you didn't mention, I mean, it's not officially yet, but I assume it's going to happen. [SPEAKER_00]: Champa and Dragon Off, I'm sure it's going to be on the show. [SPEAKER_00]: So that that one should be like really good. [SPEAKER_00]: Might be the best one to show. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to see the books in Davidson, Doyle. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I want to see Osprey and Fletcher. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: Though Osprey and Fletcher, [SPEAKER_01]: is probably going to be the kind of wrestling that I also get annoyed with, which is how many death finishers can you kick out of. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to try and are they going to try and are they going to try and do blood too?

36:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure they will. [SPEAKER_01]: I won't be glory blood, though it'll be it'll it'll sort of be kind of within the story of the match. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and like I said, I have a curiosity about Marina and Mercedes. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, [SPEAKER_01]: and have a curiosity about a codocoplet and then the match that you said, champa and drag it off. [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, two of the biggest matches that they're promoting anarchy in the arena in Texas death, kind of like I'm not, I don't even really want to watch those matches. [SPEAKER_01]: Like no, and it makes me feel like I'm a spoiled wrestling fan, which is what it makes me feel like. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I feel similar to you in regards to those two matches, [SPEAKER_00]: the hardcore AW fan, probably this, that those are the two most appealing matches on the show to them, maybe, along with Fletcher and Osprey.

37:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, in that sense, if this show does really well on paper view, [SPEAKER_00]: those two matches will probably be the reason why, as much as the main event, I don't know who would get credit, but I think that Swerve and Hangman in a Texas death match [SPEAKER_00]: that feels like it's a draw. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, regardless of how we feel about it and Anakin the Arena is just a fun match. [SPEAKER_00]: Usually, that's chaotic as well. [SPEAKER_00]: I am looking forward to it, but not for the violence. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking forward to it for the fun. [SPEAKER_00]: So, do you see what Brad Hart said today?

38:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Grumpy Brett the the man that you hate the man you buy. [SPEAKER_00]: He don't, but I generally agree with him since he retired. [SPEAKER_01]: Grumpy Brett said Wrestling is a circus. [SPEAKER_01]: He said he he his entire career. [SPEAKER_01]: He tried to make it look as realistic as he could And today he doesn't like any of the storytelling and it's all the atrics and circus [SPEAKER_00]: you know what's funny is I'm sure somebody that is the age bread heart is now said that it at the time bread heart was world champion can't believe this man running full speed shoulders first into this turn buckle yep yep yep yep yeah so uh you know and oh that guy doing a drop kick it just getting up [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah, no, it doesn't surprise me at all.

38:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, this isn't a pro WWE take either because I still have not even said my piece about the mid crown jewel that I watched this weekend. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll have my thoughts coming up. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't have it on my list, but I assumed you were going to talk about it. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'd be able to give my thoughts to you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I know what you're saying. [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, the thing is, I guess the positive that we can say is that they'll be something for everybody. [SPEAKER_00]: And for me, [SPEAKER_00]: If I didn't have a way to pay for a price, I don't know if I would. [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't pay money like good money to see a Texas death match. [SPEAKER_00]: That's just something I've decided a long time ago.

39:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But because I have my W and it's an annual subscription, I'll watch it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess in that sense, I probably can't complain too much about it because I am, you know, some of the money that I spent on the yearly subscription is going for this paid review. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I, uh, but yeah, I'm, I'm sure at the end of the day, I'm probably going to rate like six of these matches that like four and a half stars. [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, how can I say it's a, it's not going to be anything other than an outstanding show. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty, I'm pretty convinced about that. [SPEAKER_00]: It's also going to be really long. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, there's no way I'm going to get this watched on Saturday night like I, you know, with you have seen without you have seen like with this time change like that, that things can be over at like 12 30 my time.

40:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So if I watched live, which if I watched it live, I'd fall asleep. [SPEAKER_00]: So it wouldn't matter. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, what's next for you? [SPEAKER_00]: So my the only one I have left on my list because we're doing one of my ones at number one was, I don't know what to exactly how to say this, but the interesting talking point that's been going around this week is kind of like which [SPEAKER_00]: Mexican is going to be the first one to win a world title in a WWE don't stand out you're talking about on draw day bandito and penta yeah yeah I just thought it would be an interesting topic so I think of those three [SPEAKER_01]: So we're not counting his bandedos ROH championship.

41:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Correct, that's not a world. [SPEAKER_01]: Just the AEW title and one of the two WWE times. [SPEAKER_00]: What are one of the two WWE titles? [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's a chance that on Draw Day wins it on December 9th when they're in Monterey. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he could possibly, he's got that briefcase, the contract that he has to announce a week ahead of time. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, there is also a chance that MJF could show up because like he's out there and he has threatened to come back when people least expected kind of thing. [SPEAKER_00]: So he could show up and screw it up. [SPEAKER_00]: He could show up and cost Osprey the match. [SPEAKER_00]: I would rather just see if he's gonna win the title have him win the title like clean.

41:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels a little bit early to take the title off Osprey. [SPEAKER_00]: So I wouldn't necessarily think that is gonna happen. [SPEAKER_00]: I just think there's a possibility that I will. [SPEAKER_00]: But then there's a pot like the WWE, you know, are they playing poker and they really like, well, hey, we don't want them to do it first, maybe we got to get Penta to get that belt on Penta first, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm interested, like in what's going to happen, could Penta Cash in its Survivor Series? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, to get the jump on the AW could AW be putting this out there as a red hearing to get WWE to act, you know what I mean like and and take away that chip they have. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just really interested. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's going to be Ben Dito even though like in some ways I think he might be the best choice of the three.

42:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I just feel like the stuff he's evolved with right now isn't really anywhere near the world title. [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, but there's, you know, it's possibility. [SPEAKER_00]: But I definitely think one of them is going to win the title in the next four months. [SPEAKER_00]: If not, a lot sooner. [SPEAKER_01]: The problem with AEW is just there's only one guy and I mean, there's only really one guy to beat in WWE 2, but he's Lesser much lesser champion of the brand or of the right. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean if if it's pantal on Smackdown Like that's a pretty big deal like you can revolve the brand around him [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the one where we get measurable TV ratings and you could see like if he wins a title and all of a sudden SmackDown's doing 1.5 million and a point four hey you see a direct correlation there we don't we can't see it within it with Roman like we see those Netflix numbers, but you know what do they mean and and he's not on every week anyways pental beyond every week if he's a champion.

43:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so, and it could be get a situation like we had in the, in the 2000s with Eddie and Ray, where, you know, when they were champion, they moved numbers. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we could. [SPEAKER_00]: So, and then a NAW similarly, like, is part of the reason why they're so successful right now, is it the collaboration with CMLL and is it the fact that we're seeing guys like Ben Dito and and on Drawdy pushed not just on the show, but pushed as big big time stars, you know, is that is that why Mexican fans and Latino fans around America are tuning into the show.

44:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, my last one is around the PLE's and also upcoming Survivor Series. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the war game's angle is solid. [SPEAKER_01]: Really solid for you didn't see it yet, but they set it up. [SPEAKER_01]: They called it out that matches happening. [SPEAKER_01]: The 946 against the bloodline. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I all knew it was coming. [SPEAKER_01]: The only problem is is that it's like, [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same stuff that we've seen for the last several years with war games, right? [SPEAKER_01]: How you build that match up? [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of the same at least three or four years. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a traditional Survivor Series match with Cody's team against Ray's team and they were okay.

45:05 [SPEAKER_01]: They were so that's at USA versus Mexico. [SPEAKER_01]: They're figuring out who those people are going to be. [SPEAKER_01]: Ray went to Penta to to see if he wants to be on Team Mexico. [SPEAKER_01]: And so those are like the two first draft picks or whatever however you want to call them. [SPEAKER_00]: Punk and Cody that we have the question earlier about what's next for Punk. [SPEAKER_00]: That might tell me that Punk and Cody are going to be wrestling and media. [SPEAKER_01]: That's my that's my first guest when when you said I was thinking like how to how how does Penta win this match because you got to get Cody and punk out of it in order for Peter to win.

45:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I don't know what cheap way you can you can do it them both. [SPEAKER_00]: Brawling Cody could Cody could like walk out on his team he's kind of doing like a slow burn heel turn so. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, and then the women's war games match. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, this one looks really bad. [SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna have to really, really, no, it's gonna have to really, really overcome a lot of things in order, and look, you know, maybe it will. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm hoping it will. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping. [SPEAKER_01]: There's like, I can figure it out. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's at least what, like, four of the people in that match are not even close to PLE ready. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, there you go with Survivor Series. [SPEAKER_01]: whatever.

46:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same survivor series for the every year. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think bloodline in 946 is good. [SPEAKER_01]: That stuff is good. [SPEAKER_01]: But we've seen the the beats to this kind of stuff before. [SPEAKER_01]: So that takes me back to crown jewel. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to use current. [SPEAKER_01]: movie IP franchises to compare to Dividity right now because we just got the word a couple of days ago that James Gun is out of DC. [SPEAKER_01]: And Marvel is gonna have a giant movie with the Avengers. [SPEAKER_01]: But the non Avengers, non spider-man stuff has kind of been flat for them.

47:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I know they got the X-Men coming. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see what, I'm pretty excited for that, but we'll see. [SPEAKER_01]: WWE, the worst word in the vocabulary, for me, when I hear about Superhero movies, [SPEAKER_01]: And I hear about WWE paper views is, it was okay. [SPEAKER_01]: I would rather hear that it was awful than that it was okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Because at least if it was awful, maybe somebody took a chance and it just didn't work or maybe there were some different things that were unexpected and they didn't work.

47:55 [SPEAKER_01]: When WWE shows are okay, it tells me that they did everything we expected them to do in nothing different. [SPEAKER_00]: Now you want more, you want more dark night and less supergirl. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, so supergirl is like a great actual example because when I took supergirl, when I took my son to see supergirl, we both were like, [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, like that. [SPEAKER_01]: That wasn't as terrible as everyone said it was. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, it didn't mean it was good, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I read all the movies I watched. [SPEAKER_00]: And I gave that rating the same as what I did most of the matches on Prangel. [SPEAKER_00]: And even Superman. [SPEAKER_00]: Even Superman.

48:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought Superman was fun. [SPEAKER_01]: Superman wasn't. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, DC, the savior, this thing is gonna start kick. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, Superman was good, but this is the first impression and they needed to hit a home run and they probably hit like a stand-up double. [SPEAKER_01]: Like that was my thought. [SPEAKER_00]: Can I ask you something about Superman? [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: If you asked a hundred people walking out of the theater after they saw Superman, how many of the people could tell you who played Superman? [SPEAKER_01]: Very few 15, but he's in a movie coming out this year and then he's going to be in man of tomorrow.

49:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think I've tried to have tomorrow. [SPEAKER_01]: He's very much going to be a name guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so. [SPEAKER_01]: same thing with Marvel right you go to a Marvel movie um I forget the one that that it was the where it's like the B team it's like the the B team Avengers I forget what that movie was called for Nando probably. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah yeah I think I saw it um not suicide squad that's DC. [SPEAKER_01]: No that's the DC one. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I came out of that of that movie going like oh, that was kind of fun. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it was that the one that John Cena's character was it. [SPEAKER_00]: No, that was suicide squad. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was suicide squad. [SPEAKER_00]: Thunderbolt.

49:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I self I like I love that movie. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I liked it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but at the same time my thought processes when I go and see a Marvel movie They need to blow me away because if they don't blow me away [SPEAKER_01]: And okay Marvel movie is I'd rather go see something that is actually well written and not superhero like in order for me to you know the superhero movie should be above and beyond like oh my gosh, I can't believe they did this and I think that's the problem with WWE they are at a place in their current true in their current company cannon that they're stuck in the mud of doing shows that [SPEAKER_01]: aren't dist for being terrible, but they also aren't lauded for being great, like they're sitting right in the middle, on just about every PLE.

50:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you think about how WWE canon has worked historically, the paper view or the PLE was what we would sit through raw and smack down to get to. [SPEAKER_01]: And we would, you know, that's kind of the end goal. [SPEAKER_01]: And when your PLEs are less interesting than Monday night raw, when you have all of your main advantage on your PLEs, I think that's a real problem with that. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think, as much as you have WWE haters, the AEW fans, a lot of them are WWE haters and they want to not only the stuff outside of the ring, like the Saudi Arabia stuff, which is completely [SPEAKER_01]: I think most people who have half a brain look at that and go, oh my gosh, like how could they do this stuff?

51:40 [SPEAKER_01]: But the in-ring or the product, it is like, they're going to be down on it as well. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that's normal, but I think it's the people who kind of cheer for just about everything WWE does. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how many people are out there who are still doing that. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, they're out there, [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of them probably aren't even online, you know, or if they are, they're interacting with people that we don't interact with because I mean our our circles are very heavy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, our circles are a little different, but I'm talking about like the people on Twitter who are like, man. [SPEAKER_00]: everything that triple H does turns to gold like we would hear that like two years ago everything true and those people are not around anymore as far as I know that's true that's true there it's a I mean there I mean there's probably some but it's not nearly as loud as it used to be I mean I do see them occasionally like and I'm kind of surprised to like I'll see you know I'll just occasionally I'll see I'll get a retweet from somebody and I'll see like oh somebody just [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I don't you mean though, like in terms of like interest, like going in, I'd say like if I'm ranking like WWE properties, like rise probably generally the thing I'm most interested in.

52:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's still number one. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but and for me and I know I'm going to be on an island here, but like NXT is probably number two and the reason just is because like anything can happen on that show, like it could be like great. [SPEAKER_00]: It could be horrible. [SPEAKER_00]: There could be new people show up like it's I just have no idea when I'm getting when I watch that show So I like that and then then it's the PLE's and then it's back down You know most of the time like the occasional SmackDown will Friday Friday SmackDown's before Saturday paperview seems such lame duck But then again you got a CM Punk in Kevin O'Neill match last week. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I always make sure and watch it There was actually a Kevin O'Neill's promo that I really dug That that aired he just he just [SPEAKER_00]: roasted film and and got no comeback from Phil.

53:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was out. [SPEAKER_00]: I got to kick on that and then he beat him too, which uh, was surprising. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can't mean, I read that her that promo, I thought, oh, he's losing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Am I off base to think that all of these [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, no, you should think that. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure that they necessarily have to be that, but you definitely should think that. [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is that, and this is why I think we got what we got. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, when a W is asking people to spend 50 bucks a month and the majority people that are watching that show are paying that.

54:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, they got to give them, you know, their money's worth and then some to get them to come back, whereas with WWE, most of the people that are getting it are getting it on a service that they're, they already have or they're paying a monthly fee for and includes other things. [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's very few people that are paying [SPEAKER_00]: a monthly fee just to watch WWE. [SPEAKER_00]: And even at that, it's a lower fee than the $50. [SPEAKER_00]: So they do not feel as compelled to get people to tune in. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, you do have to get people to buy tickets to the shows. [SPEAKER_00]: And so far, they're still selling tickets to these PLEs.

55:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I wouldn't go to one for four matches. [SPEAKER_01]: Gunther pulls out of that match because he doesn't want to go to Saudi Arabia. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I heard about that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: They can't create a match on the fly to add to make sure that we have five of all the people that they flew in there who did nothing but maybe do a run-in. [SPEAKER_00]: You couldn't well, they're added. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they flew many people in there. [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, oh, Ben Bronson, we're right there. [SPEAKER_00]: Like Bronson, we're there. [SPEAKER_01]: The rest of the judgment day was there. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, just the two, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Just Rick Allen and so I don't know who they to wrestled. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they'd have to find that if they would have to find one baby.

55:52 [SPEAKER_01]: They'd have a man's sewer that like they used to have. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Tiffy, Tiffy could have wrestled. [SPEAKER_01]: Tiffy could have also the opener. [SPEAKER_01]: Tiffy again. [SPEAKER_00]: You could have Tiffany against Ross and yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there you go. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you could have done that, but they didn't need to. [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't believe. [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what? [SPEAKER_00]: That crowd. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, say what you want about the show, but down that crowd loved it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a button. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, those people paid for tickets and they were happy to be there. [SPEAKER_00]: Like a Brian has reported this on a show. [SPEAKER_00]: Like their subscribers that live in Saudi Arabia and they've talked about this. [SPEAKER_00]: Like they've written Brian and they talked about it. [SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah, I hear from some folks too. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I, you know, that's a border. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, it's not like a soul where, you know, like the forcing people to go.

56:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, they're easy. [SPEAKER_00]: Like they don't give me wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: They're easy fans. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this craft like they I couldn't believe the reaction that made of it like I'm watching this I'm just baffled and even in the Chelsea live match like there were some did you hear the like the the kids screaming Like I love you live You know, I was oh my god, like they it was it was weird But I mean they're clearly loved it. [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what my [SPEAKER_00]: That match wasn't very good, but the rest of the show was pretty good. [SPEAKER_00]: I liked it more than you. [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't, I wouldn't have put it in like the top half of WWE shows of the year, Brian Alverside was the second best show of the year.

57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I don't know what you watch it. [SPEAKER_00]: But I, you know, I thought it was okay, but yeah, I mean, six and a half, maybe seven, if I'm really being generous. [SPEAKER_01]: See, I thought the Randy Orton and Cody Rhodes match. [SPEAKER_01]: was like, if they were to have that match 10 times, this was like in the bottom half of what they could do. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I thought it was better than I was expecting, because they worked out a much faster pace than I would have thought. [SPEAKER_00]: And Charles Robinson was like the MVP of that match. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought the tag match was a raw match. [SPEAKER_01]: And at the main event was a good match, but I thought the aftermath stuff was stupid. [SPEAKER_00]: the aftermath was stupid.

57:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I also, like, I thought, I thought the fashion by Tiffany was really stupid. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like, no, because, you know, the worst thing about it, nobody talked about this. [SPEAKER_00]: Why did she hit live first? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why didn't she just attack Tiffany? [SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't like live either. [SPEAKER_01]: No, but she didn't need to it. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, she wanted to, [SPEAKER_01]: Let have Chelsea let her guard down I guess that would be the story. [SPEAKER_01]: That's dumb. [SPEAKER_01]: You know why I didn't like it and and I agree with everyone that this was what was going to happen Yeah, I didn't like it because it's what they do with these kind of acts being Chelsea Where you have a baby face who gets shit on and shit on and shit on and shit on and shit on and shit on and get's over Anyway [SPEAKER_01]: And then she gets over, she wins this match, she feels justified and they're like, well, we only did that so that we could swipe the carpet from under her and then the fans have a feel a certain way.

59:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And I understand the folks who are saying, well, it'll be better for her to chase Tiffy. [SPEAKER_01]: And my comeback to that is, are we sure she's still going to be in this title picture? [SPEAKER_00]: for very long. [SPEAKER_00]: If she's lucky it'll be one shot and done. [SPEAKER_00]: If so, if they even do it. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, I think it's Tiffany and Rhea is probably the goal and that's probably WrestleMania would be like that. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I don't know if Tiffany can hang though. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know either, but she's the one that's going to get the opportunity to not Chelsea. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, maybe Blake Monroe, like they like Blake too.

59:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but I actually not ready. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll do something this week and depending on what is asked of us because I know Jeremy and I are going to try and recap the paper view and then after Jeremy and I finished that if you want to come on and talk some UFC, maybe we'll do that too. [SPEAKER_01]: So I did see a lot of things happening on what Rustling Observer radio wants because I'm not sure what that schedule is on Saturday night. [SPEAKER_01]: in a moment of Jesus humanity for Nando supergirl. [SPEAKER_00]: I would have said that about a half hour into that movie, but I got into it as it went on.

1:00:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of dug the female lead and I know that she wasn't given a lot to work with, so I was just kind of rooting for her that whole movie. [SPEAKER_00]: But that whole that first half hour is like, what the hell am I watching? [SPEAKER_00]: And then it got a little better. [SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_01]: All right, shout out to Fernando. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for hanging out. [SPEAKER_01]: And also Jake from earlier in the show. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: For Paul, I'm WG, see you when we see you peace out.