NXT vs. AEW Blood & Guts Preview with Zack Heydorn | The Fight Game Podcast

0:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the fight game podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: I have a special guest today. [SPEAKER_01]: Someone who haven't talked to you in a couple years here, at least on the air, Zach Haydorn. [SPEAKER_01]: What's going on, man? [SPEAKER_00]: Dude, not much. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad that we're, yeah, talking on an actual show. [SPEAKER_00]: This is fun, man. [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a bit, but, man, I mean, there's not, we have plenty to talk about. [SPEAKER_00]: That's for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know the intriguing thing about what you're doing [SPEAKER_01]: is you're using sub stack for your content, which I am super interested in. [SPEAKER_01]: It's always been a platform that has kind of been like, hmm, what could I do with this thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And I saw your wrestling stuff on there and I thought, you know what.

0:55 [SPEAKER_01]: wrestling and sub stack. [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder what that fit is going to be like. [SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of just like waited and and I was just seeing what you were doing. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you've been so consistent in putting out your content. [SPEAKER_01]: I see you have a nice community going on there. [SPEAKER_01]: Like what was behind like because did brass brass ring exist before sub stack or was that a sub stack creation for you? [SPEAKER_00]: So it was all kind of one thing at the same time. [SPEAKER_00]: We kind of launched, brushing media in the form of a podcast, we launched it on Substack, and we launched a YouTube channel all at the same time.

1:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So kind of the idea was to not necessarily have a, [SPEAKER_00]: central place to find our stuff but to be everywhere at the same time or a lot of places at the same time. [SPEAKER_00]: I found that that substeck in particular just was a good platform for how I like to write. [SPEAKER_00]: like it's a little more laid back. [SPEAKER_00]: It can be a little snarky if you want it to. [SPEAKER_00]: There can be a little personality to it. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I just found that that platform resonated with the style in which I like to write in and read for that matter. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was just a really, was a really good fit. [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, it's a, it's a, we're going on almost three and a half years now of it.

2:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's been, that's incredible. [SPEAKER_00]: But a while, we've covered a lot of stuff and it's been fun. [SPEAKER_01]: So with Substack and for those who don't who have new Substack, I would just create an account and give it a shot because there's there's some fun things going on there, but what you did is you basically made a publication or you turned yourself into your wrestling content as a publication and so you have. [SPEAKER_01]: recaps of shows, you're writing pieces. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you also have a podcast, a sub-second only podcast or is that related to your YouTube channel? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so a sub-second, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So you're right, you're right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a, it serves as like a bit of a hub right now for kind of like an entry point into all the stuff that the breast ring media does.

3:11 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I got, I do my own personal, [SPEAKER_00]: show reviews all throughout the week on a handful of shows. [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of that is for my free subscribers. [SPEAKER_00]: If you can check it out at breastringmedia.com. [SPEAKER_00]: That's how you can find it. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a free tier of content. [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. [SPEAKER_00]: That drops. [SPEAKER_00]: I also write different tutorials, different features. [SPEAKER_00]: I get some really cool interviews from time to time. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that all drops there in some form. [SPEAKER_00]: And then there is a paid component. [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to throw a tip in the tip jar, there's extra bonus content all throughout the week. [SPEAKER_00]: Different match rating reviews for the big shows.

3:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And so much more. [SPEAKER_00]: The podcast exists on Substack 2, but you can also get it on Apple. [SPEAKER_00]: it's got it wherever you get your pods. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's kind of, yeah, it's become this kind of evolving platform that's, that's really fun. [SPEAKER_00]: And man, you mentioned it. [SPEAKER_00]: The, the community has, has been really cool because, you know, it's a, a group of people that are interested in pro wrestling, obviously, but also, you know, I think, [SPEAKER_00]: are willing to have a debate, willing to put their ideas out there in a respectful kind of nice fun way that it's interesting to talk about and to talk with and not, oh god, here we go again.

4:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I got to go hop on social media. [SPEAKER_00]: So I like that part of it. [SPEAKER_00]: I really do. [SPEAKER_01]: What is your process like because if you, as far as I know, I'm I'm seeing you. [SPEAKER_01]: You're you're doing recaps on WWE stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing recaps on NXT. [SPEAKER_01]: I saw the recap of the paperview, which I'm what I understand was not a great showing for the audience and you're also doing AEW. [SPEAKER_01]: So that is like a lot of like you have subscribers. [SPEAKER_01]: So now there is. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you actually, they're expecting stuff to go up for me. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And so you kind of have like, what's your process like in getting all of that stuff watched?

5:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the writing piece of it. [SPEAKER_00]: So I try to stay, I mean, just like with anything else, like if you're starting something out from from scratch, which is what essentially what what this was a few carryover people. [SPEAKER_00]: came from, you know, from my days with the, with Wade at the torch. [SPEAKER_00]: But it was like a project from the ground up. [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I committed it right away to like, I'm going to be consistent. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm going to be consistent with like a handful of things to start. [SPEAKER_00]: And right now that stuff is my kind of my, my free subscriber content. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the raw, the raw recap or the raw review, the NXT.

6:04 [SPEAKER_00]: review and the aid of eudonimate review as well as one editorial feature like every week. [SPEAKER_00]: I make sure that by hook or bike broke and let's I'm out of I'm a case with the family or something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Those four things are are getting done just because I want to be able to [SPEAKER_00]: when people find me, I want them to be able to come back regularly and have new stuff to read and engage with and to go back and forth. [SPEAKER_00]: So I make sure that's like my core content. [SPEAKER_00]: And really, that starts from just the habit that I have of watching pro wrestling since I'm 15 years old, really.

6:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, [SPEAKER_00]: just multiple nights a week. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I've done forever. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's not that big of a shift. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the kind of the writing and some of the other stuff that comes along with it afterwards that kind of takes up some time. [SPEAKER_00]: But again, it's fun when you're, it's really fun to kind of build something from the ground up. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's, it's work for sure, but I enjoy it at the same time. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not complaining. [SPEAKER_01]: Where else are you writing or creating content at these days? [SPEAKER_00]: So I also work for the takedown on as high. [SPEAKER_00]: So the pro wrestling arm of Sports Illustrated. [SPEAKER_00]: So I work there as well, I write for them.

7:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm also a host of their weekly show on YouTube as well. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of, there's some cross-pollination there. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's more of like kind of a, I would say, nuts and bolts kind of writing. [SPEAKER_00]: show reviews from time to time too. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I do a lot of interview work with them. [SPEAKER_00]: So I do a lot of WWE interviews, AW interviews, TNA. [SPEAKER_00]: I've had a ton of MLW work over there lately, which has been interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: So I just talked to Court the other day. [SPEAKER_01]: He's, he's, he's, yeah, move the shit right in.

8:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so being, but honestly, like Dave, [SPEAKER_00]: There's been a reason to talk to those guys because they've had a pretty big shift in some of the on the business end of what what they've been doing so so yeah so that's that's another place where you can find me as well to take down on a side. [SPEAKER_01]: So when you do these interviews with the interview subjects. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I know, I have not interviewed anybody on the WWE side. [SPEAKER_01]: I may be not even ever, but I am friends with people who do content like you. [SPEAKER_01]: And I know kind of the zones you have to stay in the lanes you have to stay in when you're talking to WWE content.

8:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I had WWE wrestlers. [SPEAKER_01]: I know, you know, AEW might be a little different. [SPEAKER_01]: You talked to someone like MJF. [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to sprinkle in certain things, but he'll also be a little a little more on the real side. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what is your strategy when you go into these interviews, knowing that? [SPEAKER_01]: you're like, uh, K-F-A, you know, like that whole thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I mean, it, it, well, first of all, most of it depends on who you're talking to. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, you've, like, there's sometimes where I'll get, you know, time with a really kind of up-and-coming NXT star, and then it's, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that person is very much trying to learn the ropes of the other side of the, of the, of the screen, so to speak, you know, and then sometimes you get somebody like, you know, John Cena, who is like, you know, the most polished, those polished interviewer that, that you, that you could have and, and everything in between my, my, like constitution with with this is.

9:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I just am up front with the person or the team or the group or the organization that I'm setting up, you know, set an interview with. [SPEAKER_00]: And I make sure that we're on the same page. [SPEAKER_00]: And I, and I'm willing to, you know, if seen it has something that he wants to promote or that he's doing like a media kind of tour for the more of the movie. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm more than willing to loop that in to the conversation, but then I'm going to ask questions for me too. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I make that clear, you know, at the at the onset so that there's no So there's no surprise sometimes [SPEAKER_00]: that team will go, you know what, we'll find somebody else, and that's okay, other times, you know, they're just like, all right, hey, let's, let's do it.

10:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just, I find that like, if you're, not, you know, I'm not asking permission for like, can I ask this or can I ask that? [SPEAKER_00]: It's just more so like, I'll talk to him about X, and I'm gonna talk to him about things that, you know, my audience and my readers, you know, want to hear about too. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a given take. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, the really strong, [SPEAKER_00]: at all the wrestling companies. [SPEAKER_00]: get, get that. [SPEAKER_00]: They get the push and pull and they get that, you know, one for me, one for you kind of thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: It was on the list of folks that you have not interviewed yet that you're dying the interview. [SPEAKER_00]: I, so I would love to interview CM Punk.

11:29 [SPEAKER_00]: He's on, he's like the top top, top guy on my, on my current list. [SPEAKER_00]: He's a Chicago guy. [SPEAKER_00]: I've, I've, I've, I've mentioned I've from Chicago, [SPEAKER_00]: 15 people at like a gym 20 minutes from my house. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like I feel like there's just like a full circle moment for for for me to have there and I think yeah as somebody who's seen literally his entire career I can I could do a very very good interview with him so he'd be he's up he's definitely up there. [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to I'd like to talk to Becky Lynch too. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's been she's such a [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's a great pro wrestler, I think she's not only, she just, maybe for as good as she is, doesn't even get credit for being as good as she is.

12:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I feel like there's a lot of questions that I'd want to ask her that haven't been asked before, just about being a woman in pro wrestling and changing the game. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the first real tip-top WrestleMania main event [SPEAKER_00]: That's a wallet, and I think that's a really interesting dynamic to hear more about. [SPEAKER_00]: She'd be on my list, and then I think probably, I, I, I, I, I.

12:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd say Cody Rhodes, except that, you know, he's been asked everything that there is to be. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, that's one we're like, for me personally, it'd be cool to like shoot the breeze with Cody. [SPEAKER_00]: But I really have to dig deep to try to find an angle that hasn't been, you know, traversed before. [SPEAKER_01]: What, I mean, have you ever, have you ever got talked to Austin? [SPEAKER_01]: You wrote the book. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, multiple times. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, he, he, he, him, him and I've had a couple interviews with each other. [SPEAKER_00]: So we've, I've done, I spent the probably about. [SPEAKER_00]: three hours total, talking to him, and yeah, got some really cool, cool stuff about it.

13:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So yes, that's less of a bucket list, but I'm always not for talking to Steve. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, we'll get to that. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get to your book in a second because I do want to follow up with you about that. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so just shout out to Brass Ring media. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I just I love [SPEAKER_01]: how to do things a little bit differently, how to get out there, how to kind of be independent. [SPEAKER_01]: You do have your other platforms, of course, but still like this is something that is yours. [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, this is my thing. [SPEAKER_01]: What I want to do with it is what I want to do with it. [SPEAKER_01]: I could kill it tomorrow or I could it could grow and I could hire people to do this with me.

14:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's that stuff is is what I really love to see. [SPEAKER_01]: So kudos to that. [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate them and thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about Wednesday. [SPEAKER_01]: So we're recording this Monday, but it'll go out Tuesday morning. [SPEAKER_01]: So we don't have raw, raws being recorded. [SPEAKER_01]: I was taping early because they have to tape smack down as well. [SPEAKER_00]: You're about to fire up here pretty soon. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, but the big Wednesday night, [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, of head to head is NXT and a W yet again, they, they are, I feel like in 20 years we're still going to get some head to heads with the NXT and a W, but, you know, NXT gets pushed to Wednesday because of the election.

15:04 [SPEAKER_01]: This is more of a network programming thing than something that they asked for. [SPEAKER_01]: But they are loading up the show and you watch the NXT paper view or the NXT PLE. [SPEAKER_01]: I did not, so I don't have any context other than what I've heard about the show But let's go over the NXT card first. [SPEAKER_01]: Then we'll go over the AEW card So if CM Punk and Grayson Waller for the NXT championship [SPEAKER_01]: uh, Kalani Jordan against a TBA. [SPEAKER_01]: So we don't know who she's facing yet. [SPEAKER_01]: Chad Gable Ray Phoenix and Dragon Leaver's Divinity Project. [SPEAKER_01]: Now that is a match that might get me to actually turn this show on because I've been on a on strike from NXT for about a year now.

15:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: I like funny. [SPEAKER_01]: I like comedy in my wrestling. [SPEAKER_01]: But when you try to be funny and it's cringe, I'm out. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't miss, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And boy, then you really would not have liked how do we have it. [SPEAKER_00]: You would not have liked that show. [SPEAKER_01]: So then we have Cruz Montana and Dion Lennox with Michael Chandler, UFC's Michael Chandler as the special guest referee, John Cena's also going to be there. [SPEAKER_01]: Cody Rhodes is supposed to be there as well. [SPEAKER_01]: Is this, is there supposed to be a dusty cup match on the show as well? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so there's the finals. [SPEAKER_00]: Does he cup finals as on that show?

16:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So Cody, you'll be on hand kind of crown the loser. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that I think at this point that wraps up all like the main roster talent that is heading to that to that show. [SPEAKER_00]: There might be a match or two that I'm missing, but I think that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: So look, you get, you know, I, the match that gets me possibly to sharing this thing on my Peter, I'm sure a lot to people want to see what seeing punks in it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a grace and waller fan, so that's not necessarily a match that I'm interested in seeing, but they're putting a really good show together to go head to head with AEW. [SPEAKER_01]: The other day like well, why don't they just put up their normal show and I was like They have network obligations too.

17:12 [SPEAKER_01]: They need to do good ratings. [SPEAKER_01]: Like this isn't like. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh We're just gonna wave the white flag because we had to you know because we had to compete against AEW like no They have the resources to load up whenever they need to so I'm glad that they did so on the other end AEW blood and guts we have two [SPEAKER_01]: blood and guts matches, men's and women's. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, that's been a staple on AEW television for years and years and years. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is one of their most important television events of the year when it comes to viewership. [SPEAKER_01]: And those are kind of like the big things on that show. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if there's anything else that's been announced after you for those shows.

17:54 [SPEAKER_01]: But, [SPEAKER_01]: What show are you more interested in? [SPEAKER_01]: And then the follow-up to that is what show do you think will do the bigger audience? [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll take the second one first. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the NXT show I think is going to do the bigger audience with almost no question. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you've just have, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the WWE is breaking out the big guns for this. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think some people forget sometimes who's running WWE, this is like a ruthlessly competitive company that is run by, you know, just the the the the the most ultimate business focus win, win, win, group of people.

18:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so of course they're going to put their their best foot forward here like to to to get the job done. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think they will. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm [SPEAKER_00]: I'm I'm actually a more excited to see how that show plays out to as my second as my second answer like I think that the button guts matches. [SPEAKER_00]: While once they get in the ring and once the bell rings and once everything starts rolling I think they're gonna be really good and I think they're gonna be really fun I think they're gonna be worthy of uh, you know, the blood and guts kind of moniker But Neither of those matches have had like really great Storylines are built the women's one especially just as kind of just like here We go we got to have a women's one let's throw it together so [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that there's more meat on the bone with the NHT, with the NHT show because you have that star power coming in.

19:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And it, pro wrestling is still a star-based industry. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: So here's my thoughts on it. [SPEAKER_01]: So we had an NXT show on Saturday. [SPEAKER_01]: there's an NXT show on Wednesday. [SPEAKER_01]: So you get a look, you know, if you had your fill from Saturday and you were not intrigued to watch on Wednesday, you know, maybe there's something there. [SPEAKER_01]: I do think there's an interesting thing to look at when it comes to WWE's audience outside of streaming. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, the Netflix deal is probably their most important deal, but not everybody is on Netflix.

20:17 [SPEAKER_01]: there is an avenue of broadcast television which I think I want to say that the network is probably in [SPEAKER_01]: 25 million more households than TBS at this point. [SPEAKER_01]: So there is a, they, they, they, they will have the advantage in overall households. [SPEAKER_01]: And just by the mere possibility that John Cena, and see a punk are going to be on this show, Cody Rhodes as well. [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, he's, I think you know that unless there's a storyline thing happening, [SPEAKER_01]: maybe Randy Orton is there as well. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, good point. [SPEAKER_01]: The, you know, I think, I think Sina and punk kind of drive that intrigue.

21:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the reason on the flip side for AEW to win the night is simply because they don't have to move. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, [SPEAKER_01]: WWE, better be sending out those emails, reminding people that there's no NXT on Tuesday, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like that, like, I don't know how else you would, I don't know how hard they hit it on Saturday, but even if they hit it hard on Monday night raw, you still have a decent size segment of people who don't have streaming, who will be watching this show. [SPEAKER_01]: So they're gonna have their work cut out for them. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think they need to promote as hard as possible.

21:41 [SPEAKER_01]: But the idea that AEW stays on their night, people know it's going to be on. [SPEAKER_01]: They're been looking forward to the show. [SPEAKER_01]: It's been on the books for months. [SPEAKER_01]: I think they're going to win the demo. [SPEAKER_01]: But you might be right that the overall audience, just because the NXT household size is as much larger. [SPEAKER_01]: They may win for overall viewers. [SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of the day, my hope is that bullshows do really well, because then that just shows there's a hell of a time. [SPEAKER_00]: The demo ain't nothing, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You want that if you win the demo, that's good. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that if if A W gets that kind of split, that would be, I mean, I think that'd be a huge win for them, given the fact that WWE is essentially, you know, breaking out their big star.

22:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So if they can compete, that's, that's a huge feather and Tony Khan's cap. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about the three companies that you're kind of following very [SPEAKER_01]: Give me one thing that you're kind of interested in that is working for you as a fan. [SPEAKER_01]: And then give me one thing that maybe leaves a little bit to be desired. [SPEAKER_00]: For AWS, I think, I mean, I'm, I think I'm in the minority when I say this, but I am a fan of the Will Osprey title run. [SPEAKER_00]: So far, I think that, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because all wrestling companies right now have to like churn and burn all this content all this out all these hours of television and programing and social shoulder content all of it right there's so much to produce and so.

23:21 [SPEAKER_00]: There's, you know, your storylines run quick and they run hot and sometimes I think it's really nice when wrestling companies take a step back and just let the top guys be top guys. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that Will Osprey right now, yeah, like he's not having like the Will Osprey singles match every single week, but man, when he comes out there, he looks like the top guy, he acts like the top guy, he's in the top storyline, he wrestles in main events. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's really smart for AWS to keep establishing that role in their company and they crowned them in the biggest way that you possibly can and now they're kind of feeding that momentum.

24:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think what they're doing with them is very paint by numbers. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's flashy. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's out of the box. [SPEAKER_00]: It's really kind of like nuts and bolts booking, but [SPEAKER_00]: I think AWS needs that sometimes, and I think that I'm enjoying the simplicity of that right now in the company. [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm not, what I'm not loving with with AWS right now is kind of this. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like the, that there's this kind of like very blurry line between a lot of the heels and baby faces on the show, yes.

24:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It's blurry in it and I can say this for WWE 2. [SPEAKER_00]: I write about this a lot in that. [SPEAKER_00]: I think fans want to cheer one side and do the other side. [SPEAKER_00]: Generally speaking, not always, and certainly their shades of gray, when you look up and down, dynamite and raw, and smack down. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is just a, this answer will be the same for WWE too, but it's just really blurry. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, I think fans want to have that, [SPEAKER_00]: moment together in a building where we're all cheering the same person and booing the same person. [SPEAKER_00]: Call me old school, but I think that's still to this day moves the needle in the biggest way possible for a pro wrestling company.

25:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think AWS gets away from that sometimes. [SPEAKER_00]: And enough for it to just kind of be cute and to put content out. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd prefer them to kind of not do that. [SPEAKER_01]: I think both of your points kind of connect in a way because they do, yes, one of the things about Will Osprey's current rain is that the worry for me was that. [SPEAKER_01]: The journey, and this is, this is not an AEW problem. [SPEAKER_01]: This is a pro wrestling problem. [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes the journey of the baby face to get to the top of the mountain, you're there for the journey. [SPEAKER_01]: And then when the baby face gets there and wins title, then you're like, okay, what now?

26:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Like now it's kind of boring. [SPEAKER_01]: And we saw that with Hangman. [SPEAKER_01]: They quickly went away from Hangman's title reign. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought too soon. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, me too. [SPEAKER_01]: But he lost that title. [SPEAKER_01]: And when we'll got it, I was like, oh no, I hope they don't, you know, hope they don't do the same thing. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Will Osprey is losing to Kyle Fletcher at full gear, so I'm crossing my fingers there. [SPEAKER_01]: But they, it's really hard sometimes when you get that baby face to the end of the journey. [SPEAKER_01]: And then now you have to kind of create a new journey like, like, you know, it's funny because in MMA, the, these fighters, they would always say, you know, winning the title was harder.

26:54 [SPEAKER_01]: was hard, but defending the title was even harder, and now, you know, in a real way, in a real way, the guys are marked man, and you have your one person, you've got all these guys wanting to come after you. [SPEAKER_01]: They're all training too simply to beat you. [SPEAKER_01]: And in wrestling, you're like, well, this is fake. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we should be able to create these opportunities, right? [SPEAKER_01]: But it sometimes it almost feels the same. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to see Osprey have this really classic, you know, world, similar to when Cody beat Roman Reigns had this classic baby face, world title run. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, maybe because he's so good in the ring, he can be the one to do it.

27:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But I just, I don't know, I just have this sense of like MJF is sniffing around here. [SPEAKER_00]: He's looming. [SPEAKER_01]: He's looming. [SPEAKER_00]: He's looming. [SPEAKER_01]: Certainly later he's going to be the champion. [SPEAKER_01]: But, uh, to your second point, [SPEAKER_01]: When I think it's most interesting about your second point, because I talk to lots of different people about this stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of folks who are probably even closer to my age than your age who kind of grew up on this specific style of wrestling where you really, really tried to create the divider between heels and baby faces. [SPEAKER_01]: And stereotypically, you created these heels as bad people in these baby faces, good people.

28:15 [SPEAKER_01]: When you and I figured out that, oh, there's like something behind this wrestling thing that we like, yeah, we're going to get a little bit closer to this and oh, there's machinations involved into the political and so I kind of like. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't really care as much about that delineation of good guy versus bad guy. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's probably just because I understand how things work to a different degree from when I was younger. [SPEAKER_01]: But there are still people who watch wrestling through the same lens as they did when they really enjoyed it growing up. [SPEAKER_01]: And those of the people that seem to be so focused on the good guy versus bad guy thing, [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what's interesting about it from the AWS standpoint.

29:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And I sort of agree with this, which is when you're the number two company. [SPEAKER_01]: you're just trying to build stars. [SPEAKER_01]: So we had this whole, you know, the death writer's journey of John Moxley, where he's just, he's mostly a bad guy, but then he'll do stuff that has sports from a ship involved and then he'll put a plastic bag over her guy's head. [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's kind of like this insane guy, but at the same time, through the lens of, [SPEAKER_01]: AEW sickle or hardcore wrestling fan are very smart wrestling fan. [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, yeah, John Moxie's the ace like, but to that same audience, you're like, oh, he's he's this bad guy who puts plastic bag over people's head.

29:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So I like, I can't fall back and forth in between. [SPEAKER_01]: the fan and kind of the critic that that I am, it's hard for me to do. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's rare actually where where I can kind of go, oh man, like I reacted like a fan would react, but to the people who can do that, I definitely understand why the baby face versus heel stuff really means, because it's almost like watching a movie and you're wanting to feel things differently from from the antagonist and the protagonist. [SPEAKER_01]: So I get it from that perspective, but I do think it's an [SPEAKER_01]: What A.W. [SPEAKER_01]: is trying to, they're just trying to build stars. [SPEAKER_01]: Like they don't care if it's a back hair or a good guy.

30:26 [SPEAKER_01]: They're just like, we're trying to make stars who kind of help us become bigger in the pro wrestling space. [SPEAKER_00]: For sure. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's also, you know, symptom, not even a symptom, but a result of the way in which pro wrestling is consumed now, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much of it out there. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you, even if you're AWS, you got to fill so much TV time. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I get it from the perspective of if you're like, if you're Paul LeVec and you're sitting there and you're going, or Tony Khan and you're going, man, how many times can I, you know, bring out the big bad heel to face the, the white meat baby face before that gets boring.

31:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I used to have one show a week that I had to produce. [SPEAKER_00]: Now I have two shows a week and I've got seven hours of kind of like, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I'm I'm sympathetic to that to that issue. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, yeah, the just the content juggernaut that pro wrestling as an industry has become, it, it needs fuel. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The repeated finishes happen. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God. [SPEAKER_01]: Same, you know, and stuff like that where you go. [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, I just saw that. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I fear it needs finish. [SPEAKER_01]: I saw this same finish on WWE and yet if you're [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we don't care because we're really focused on us, but then if you're a bigger fan of the progress in space, you're like, why are they doing a lot of same friends?

31:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And they just see it as like we're just paying attention to us and we're seeing what works. [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, now let's now let's go to a WWE main roster. [SPEAKER_01]: Same question. [SPEAKER_01]: What's working for you and what's not? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, both families working for me. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's a really, that's a hit that WWE has. [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, it's been a while since you've had an NXT star kind of come up from NXT and create like that, that kind of buzz with really limited [SPEAKER_00]: you know, limited main roster exposure at that point. [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's one of the few guys that has come up from NXT, been placed at the top of the mountain and has stayed at the top of the mountain at least for right now.

32:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I think that's smart. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't do that with everybody because [SPEAKER_00]: Not everybody's older family, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's got different parts to their game. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think sometimes when you find the right person, it's let's push the chips in. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's push the chips in and we're going all in. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I like what they've done with him. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's got a really good command of the crowd. [SPEAKER_00]: He knows who he is as a character. [SPEAKER_00]: He's good enough in the ring. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the only thing working against him right now is that WrestleMania is still six months before. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I think they're going to wait to kind of hit go on a really big push until then.

33:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that they've they've found something there and I think that's that's really good. [SPEAKER_00]: In the interest of not repeating myself, although I do think the same way they say, same answer. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, with the baby faces and heels with WWE 2. [SPEAKER_00]: I, the, the finishes, I think in WWE are something that we're on kind of just like furrowing my brow going, okay, every one thing, if it was only, you know, show to show to show, but you see some of the same finishes on the same show in this rain hour, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: come on like like I think for something like that that is when you get into the zone of like all right we're insulting our audience now we we promoted these title matches or we promoted this big grudge feud and now it's interference interference interference interference and nothing gets solved that we kicked the can down the road.

34:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that that has, you know, an impact on week to week numbers. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think you do drive off fans over a long period of time if you keep that, if you keep that up. [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: that is frustrating to to see it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I just think it's so easy to clean up, just do clean finishes. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, no, they don't, to the sea oxen, the bears are going to play tonight. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm running my football. [SPEAKER_00]: What am I going to lose? [SPEAKER_00]: And they're both pretty good teams. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're all going to really, they'll be back next week. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, uh, you and I should talk about this, uh, bears and possible 49ers. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do [SPEAKER_01]: would not mind AI usage and wrestling in this way.

35:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Triple H, run your booking sheet through AI. [SPEAKER_01]: I love it. [SPEAKER_01]: And when it tells you, dude, you've done this same finish seven times in the last two months. [SPEAKER_01]: Then take it out and change the business. [SPEAKER_00]: Do something different. [UNKNOWN]: Do something different. [SPEAKER_00]: Totally. [SPEAKER_00]: Totally. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I mean, they have everybody asks, like, how are they going to use AI and pro wrestling? [SPEAKER_00]: Boom, there you go. [SPEAKER_00]: There's one way. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: So going back to your obofemmy thing, [SPEAKER_01]: I like Obafemi a lot, of course. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how can you not? [SPEAKER_01]: He seems like he's on the cusp of becoming a big big star for them. [SPEAKER_01]: And they, you know, they need it. [SPEAKER_01]: They are a very top-heavy when it comes to guys over 40 right now, who are top, top guys.

36:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I do wonder, though, if they're choosing the wrong talent in this role, [SPEAKER_01]: I am of the opinion. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, some of this is Oran. [SPEAKER_01]: I think Widowba Femi has as he's got Ora. [SPEAKER_01]: He understands how to project his size inside the ring. [SPEAKER_01]: And that is not like there have been ton of big guys who have not been able to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: But from a talent standpoint, I do wonder if Brown Breakers actually the better talent. [SPEAKER_01]: Either guy like you you pick and I think both guys are gonna be really really good for the for the next, you know, X number of years Trick Williams, you know, he's he's been out there a little bit.

36:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I think sometimes His booking and his in-ring leaves a little bit to be desired, but I still think I still think he's got something and that he'll keep getting better [SPEAKER_01]: I do wonder if brown breakers should be in that same position that Obofemies in or if they believe that brown breaker just has more stamina in that way to where you don't have to push him like the next Brock Lesnar because them in the realities he's not as big as Obofemies and that's how they see things. [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm interested to see what this is going to be like in like the next two or three years.

37:41 [SPEAKER_01]: My hope is that both guys are top guys. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think that'd be a good bet. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I really do. [SPEAKER_00]: I think from breaker, you know, he caught some bad luck. [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, like, I mean, and sometimes like, [SPEAKER_00]: That's all it takes, it's just a couple bad bounce here, bad bounce there, he gets an injury, right before WrestleMania was kind of takes away a lot of the build to whatever he was gonna do at that show. [SPEAKER_00]: Prior to that, you had this faction that was gonna be built around him as a future top to your guy and Seth gets hurt and Logan gets hurt and Brass agreed, gets hurt, and then all of a sudden, you know, then you're stuck there with Austin Dairy all by yourself.

38:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's, you know, it's, it's just rough. [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes timing is everything and, and that at that exact moment, Obafetti comes in and is beating Brock Lesnar and having, you know, so, but I think Brown breakers are going to be in the cards and if Obafetti versus Brown breaker isn't a WrestleMania main event sometime, I'll be very surprised. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, and since I know you're watching NXT very closely, you could, you could do a quick thing on on NXT as well, uh, just, uh, you know what, what is worth watching on NXT. [SPEAKER_00]: The tag team scene in NXT is pretty good.

39:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's pretty strong from a talent perspective. [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have fully flushed out teams necessarily. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a couple kind of rag tag teams that are together. [SPEAKER_00]: But the core is strong. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's led by [SPEAKER_00]: a team called the Vanity project. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're not familiar with NXT, and these guys are like your pretty boy heel tag team wrestlers. [SPEAKER_00]: And they know how to do that stick. [SPEAKER_00]: They know how to do the bit. [SPEAKER_00]: They know the character really well. [SPEAKER_00]: They can work and matches that get heat. [SPEAKER_00]: They're worth tuning into.

39:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you tell me you're like, hey, I might tune into that vanity project. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Dragon Lee Chad Gable match. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, because that that's going to be likely the the match of the night. [SPEAKER_00]: And it'll be because of the baby faces, but man, that the heel vanity project team is really, really good. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's there worth worth worth worth worth worth a watch on the flip side. [SPEAKER_00]: There's, I have this in my weekly kind of NXT column. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the check-in on Shilohill. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's a wrestler that's kind of a totally developmental guy. [SPEAKER_00]: And he is just all over the place in terms of character.

40:29 [SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of this laughing, crazy guy. [SPEAKER_00]: He's a serious brawler. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like a computer hacker some weeks. [SPEAKER_00]: It's fun to track every week, because it's so, so bad. [SPEAKER_00]: And the worst thing about it is, there is something there. [SPEAKER_00]: There's like a flicker of personality and of charisma. [SPEAKER_00]: And if they could just decide what this God is going to be, he might have a chance, but until they do, he's, you know, he's, he's drowning. [SPEAKER_00]: Just drowning. [SPEAKER_01]: So you wrote a book called Stunning the Wrestling Artistry of Steve Boston.

41:16 [SPEAKER_01]: You put that out through Snowden. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I heard you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Any other projects coming up? [SPEAKER_00]: Not, I mean, I hope so. [SPEAKER_00]: I hope so. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a, let's see, how could I phrase this? [SPEAKER_00]: There's a couple of logs on the fire, so to speak, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Just need to see if they kind of heat up. [SPEAKER_00]: The process of writing that book was a blast. [SPEAKER_00]: It also was just, I also at the same time was happy when it was open. [SPEAKER_00]: So I was glad to kind of have like a bit of a break there. [SPEAKER_00]: And now, as some things kind of start materializing, I'm like, okay, I can get back into this game.

41:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So I can't, there's nothing I could really say yet, but I hope to, you know, within like right around 127 starts, hopefully. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there you go. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I, you know, you have your work cut out for you because there's so much content that you're writing and like we'll finish with this, but like you're you're proud like you've said that this has just been your process for a long time, but you have you also have a life. [SPEAKER_01]: balance your regular life and your family and your friends and all that with the amount of stuff that you have to watch and write about.

42:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I do, I do, I have a, you know, I mean, yes, I have two, two daughters and a wife who I love very much. [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I mean, we do, you know, I've definitely, you know, I'm definitely dad and husband for for the majority of my day. [SPEAKER_00]: I, [SPEAKER_00]: I just yeah, maybe the kind of piece things together, I've got, you know, a shoe job that's flexible. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm able to kind of jump in and out of that as I jump in and out of the pressuring media stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like I just have. [SPEAKER_00]: my time just kind of like carved up into a whole bunch of different things throughout throughout the day.

43:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And in the end, then everything gets done. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just not your traditional, all right, I'm going to work from nine to four on this and then from nine on that. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like, it's a little chopier than that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I admit, [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that that process would be healthy for everybody, but it works for me and you know, I'm able to do a lot of cool stuff because of it and so I'm, you know, keep going till the wheels fall. [SPEAKER_01]: There you go. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, tell folks where they can find you. [SPEAKER_01]: If they're watching on video, they can see your Twitter hand or handle there at Zach under score. [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Dorn, where can people find Brass Ring media? [SPEAKER_01]: What if they want to subscribe to the subscription tiers?

44:02 [SPEAKER_01]: How does all that work? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, here's the simplest way to do it. [SPEAKER_00]: It all, it's all right there on brasseringmedia.com. [SPEAKER_00]: So you can go there right now, brasseringmedia.com, and you can choose to either just subscribe for free, and you get all of the free content, and anything free that I put up on a weekly basis. [SPEAKER_00]: There's another option to join the paid tier, which is only a couple bucks a month. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you get all that extra bonus content. [SPEAKER_00]: If you sign up to be a free subscriber and then you decide later on, hey, I want to give the paid subscription to go. [SPEAKER_00]: You'll have that option too, but it all, it's all right there for you at brassoringmedia.com.

44:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're on YouTube and you are just a consumer of all things YouTube, [SPEAKER_00]: head over to the Breastory Media YouTube channel. [SPEAKER_00]: That's brand new. [SPEAKER_00]: We launched that not too long ago, so we're getting up and rolling there. [SPEAKER_00]: But if you just search Breastory Media and YouTube, you'll come up there and you know, would love a subscription if you have the time to give one. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I think I just subscribe to the YouTube. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, wait, did you just interview Conrad? [SPEAKER_00]: I did. [SPEAKER_00]: I just interviewed. [SPEAKER_00]: We Conrad and I had such a good conversation.

45:24 [SPEAKER_00]: This was like, [SPEAKER_00]: we were kind of talking, but we were, we talked to promote kind of the big belt auction that he had going on. [SPEAKER_00]: And then we just, we kept going and we started talking about pro wrestling AI and what the feet like, it just turned into this big conversation about what does the future of pro wrestling and pro wrestling podcasting look like? [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: It was such a fun chat. [SPEAKER_00]: I hope, so check that out. [SPEAKER_00]: If there's no other reason to go to the YouTube, which there is, but if there's one reason to, [SPEAKER_00]: Check that thing. [SPEAKER_00]: That was great. [SPEAKER_00]: Great shot. [SPEAKER_01]: The only time I've ever met Conrad was, let's see, this would have been February of like 2019.

46:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: AEW does their very first ever [SPEAKER_01]: I was there. [SPEAKER_01]: Is this the one injection for? [SPEAKER_01]: No, it was in Vegas. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: This is the Vegas one. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm there with Melter with Dave Melter. [SPEAKER_01]: And we are supposed to interview Kenny Omega and Tony Khan. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how many interviews Tony Khan had done at that point, but had to be very few because he was really nervous. [SPEAKER_01]: And now he's like so seasoned. [SPEAKER_01]: So [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, we're walking back to the hotel and Tony has like a little sweet going on at his, at his, at his room, his, you know, food and everything.

47:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's like a handful of people who are there and Conrad was one of them. [SPEAKER_01]: Conrad was hanging out at that time. [SPEAKER_01]: So I got to I got that's the only time I've ever met him in person. [SPEAKER_01]: So he's a random. [SPEAKER_01]: the random AEW tickets sale party. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why. [SPEAKER_00]: That's cool. [SPEAKER_00]: You got to say that you went to that man. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's like early early AEW stuff right there. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was Dave going, should we cover this? [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: you've had the story from day one, we should probably cover this as an event. [SPEAKER_01]: And I talked, I talked the powers that be at F4W into giving me their social handle.

47:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was just shooting video of all the presser and putting that video up. [SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, we covered it as good as we can, but we had that the Omega interview and the very one of the very first Tony con interviews from that weekend, which was funny because [SPEAKER_01]: I will, people who know me probably know this story, but for this podcast, I'll keep this person nameless. [SPEAKER_01]: There were people there who were under the impression that they were kind of too big for the scrum was like, why am I a part of this scrum? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I work for X, Y and Z and [SPEAKER_01]: And so then knowing that we were going to interview Omega and Tony Khan, I was just kind of laughing because I was like, gosh, this guy's going to be really mad when he sees what's going on.

48:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And so then, so the way that they do the scrum is like, it's like, oh, you know, we have. [SPEAKER_01]: Brandy runnels like she's going to come and she's going to, you know, you can ask her questions and just like this, like this kind of how the the an actual scrum is not the way that they do the press conference, but a real scrum. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And so this dude was like. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, why am I a part of this scrum? [SPEAKER_01]: So then so then we're walking back with Omega and Omega's like, you know what, I got to be a part of it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm supposed to be a part of this scrum right now. [SPEAKER_01]: Give me 10 minutes and I'm going to go and do the thing and so he takes like five paces. [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, ask for it. [SPEAKER_01]: He's just leaves and we just walked into the Hey, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: the way I don't I don't ever have that perspective within this.

49:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of like I'll want to cover as much as I can. [SPEAKER_01]: You kind of get it where you get it right? [SPEAKER_01]: Get it where you get it you can you know there there may be an opportunity to get a great sound by that you can utilize that you can take an angle with an comment like no matter where it comes. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I understand [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you want that face to face and you want like, you know, whatever, but sometimes if you don't get it, you still got to make the best of us. [SPEAKER_00]: You're still going to make the best. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think this person is in wrestling media anymore, by the way, so they don't have to deal with that anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, thank you to Zach Hadeorn from Brass Ring Media. [SPEAKER_01]: Check out the sub-stack. [SPEAKER_01]: Go to the website and subscribe and yeah, follow and support Zach and all he's doing.

50:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So thanks. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for doing this, man. [SPEAKER_00]: Man, I appreciate you guys. [SPEAKER_00]: You so much. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: And I love what you do as well and a true honor to be on the show. [SPEAKER_00]: So I thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll do it again soon. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: For Zach, I'm WG. [SPEAKER_01]: We will see you when we see you piece out.