CM Punk Dethrones Sami Zayn, How WWE Uses its Old Stars, Kenny Omega's Redemption Path | Takedown

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's time for takedown, Paul Fontaine and WG here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We have two big topics, both companies, put in on title matches on their television show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We had to see him punk beating Sami Zane to become the WWE champion.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then on Wednesday or later today for most people listening, we have Kenny Omega and MJF.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if Kenny Omega does not win, he can never challenge for the AEW title again, which is a scenario that they've done a few, a couple of different times now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I saw Tony Khan kind of describing his trepidation and going with the idea, especially with Cody.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he

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[SPEAKER_01]: hangman wanting to do it as well, like that was his idea.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of wacky.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So where did that come from?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I guess was that what Dave and Brian were talking about?

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was he did an interview with there's there's a I think it's a radio person or maybe it's podcast or that he does an interview with seemingly like once every quarter or something.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, I think I have an interview that's what that's pretty well done actually.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, some of the goofy or pot I know that I know the guy you're talking about.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So let's actually talk about the CM Punk thing first.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because it involves Sami Zane and that I guess the tricky thing with this entire Sami Zane situation is as you had one side of the wrestling fan base.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So actually maybe even more than half of the WWE fan base.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's not just make this a transitional thing for a week like let's give him the opportunity and then there were and you know those of us who were saying like okay are you really going to headline summer slam with him and not that I wouldn't have but I didn't believe WWE was going to headline him at summer slam and so but still it was almost like they cornered themselves into this idea of

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[SPEAKER_01]: We want to do something to shake things up, but in the end, they, it's, they, I guess they still got to the, where they wanted to go piece of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And to me when I was watching it, I was like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: This feels way too much like what they always do, but they just consider it like a surprise.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like normal WWE booking with the regular guys who are always on top.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of it, well, see, I'm puncturing up his cool for that city.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Probably cool for the viewership on Netflix.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just felt like, eh, kind of the same old shit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's funny because like I clearly the Sammy title win was not planned out, but I do think that and and I don't know like again I haven't listened to residents of radio, but I did I did talk to Brian.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I clue him into something that, you know, he may not have had time to figure out himself, but that, you know, if he goes back to his own notes from the April 20th Raw, and Sam Punk's last words before he left to Cody Rhodes where I'm going to stay ready because I never know when a championship opportunity is going to fall into my lap.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So he says that on the last raw that he's on, that then he disappears and then he comes back, low and behold gets a world title match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, Sammy Zane's title win wasn't planned, but I do believe that when he left, the plan was he's gonna come back at some point when there's a title match or like a, like a money in the bank kind of thing where somebody couldn't show up or king of the ring where they need a person to come in at the last minute, like that sort of thing like they were gonna do that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Similar to what AEW did with Mercedes Monet, which I believe they had her in her back pocket and they were going to use her when they needed her and and and this is the same thing with punk I believe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know this, but it makes all the sense in the world to me and I remember at the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I remember that line and thinking, okay, this is how he's going to come back.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how when or where it's going to happen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And even in this case, it didn't even occur to me until I realized it was in Chicago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, oh, yeah, this is what's going to happen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think when Sammy won the title, they already have this plan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: based on how it they outcome happen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It definitely feels that way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I saw people calling it bait and switch and I'm sorry like This isn't bait and switch because I mean you're just being anti WWE if that's a case because yeah, okay They advertise a Cody versus Sammy match and they gave you a punk versus versus Sammy match in punk's hometown Make it a return.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's not bait and switch

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[SPEAKER_00]: bait and switch is promising that a guy who wins a king of the ring is going to get the world title match and then he's not getting the world title.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's bait and switch.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I even want to criticize WWE for that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they give you plenty of opportunities to this wasn't one of them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, and I think like for me, like they are shaking it up.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And again, but it is you're shaking it up and then coming out with the exact same thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I get what you're saying, but this Seth Rollins promo.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Start the show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The entire promo is about now the shield will always be connected to punk, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's the origin story of the shield.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of interesting that, you know, Seth and Roman, and you think of going back.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's called, they're kind of attached punk.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But Seth Rollins, like that whole promo was about how Romans had chosen guy and you know, you get more chances than me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking like I feel like they are on very similar paths.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now maybe Roman is a one A and Seth is a one B.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But Seth got

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[SPEAKER_01]: more chances than almost anybody, but maybe everybody not named Roman.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the thing is, the difference is, he got over quicker than Roman did.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So he had the cheat code of he didn't Roman the back with the chair and winning and using that briefcase.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And having for sure people to be cheat codes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Jan having triple H and Stephanie in his corner and cutting promos for him and all that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, and being a heel, it's easier to get over as a heel to that audience than it is to get over as a baby face being shoved down your throat like Roman was for five years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, like, and then now ever since then, yeah, assessment playing catch up ever since the bloodline.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Seth has been playing catch up in between injuries and bad creative and just, you know, bad luck.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, there's so many things with Seth that you, they don't remind you of, but I don't forget.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like I remember him with Austin Theory and Buddy Matthews as his Prodigy is on RAW and I mean, that was some bad TV.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, and there was other things like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, and now he's I think it's his time is past, but he just kind of trying to hang on to the good old days.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like he's still good, but he's more like, you know, like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: If we think about where this company is today and what they currently rely on for their main event, like Seth and because it's Roman, it's going to be the biggest match promoted on SummerSlim.

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[SPEAKER_01]: When did Seth do that cash in?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was 2014.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Just on top I have, if 2015, 2015, okay, so 11 years ago, wow.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and these dudes have been pretty much on top for all of those 11 years, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even you could even go back with Roman a little bit before that, because this was supposed to be his christening and then they changed, they changed it up a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And what I think is interesting about Seth leading off the show, a show in which

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[SPEAKER_01]: see him punk comes back, you know, he and Connor McGregor doing similar things there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, him coming back on this show to beat, I wouldn't say Sammy's a new star, but Sammy,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is it is at a certain level and if you elevate him it kind of is a new thing, but I think Sammy Based on what I saw he's probably just always going to be at that level, but punk comes in and does The thing where we're kind of back to where we were at WrestleMania

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[SPEAKER_01]: Braunbreaker and and this is all just this isn't WWE telling this story.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is just me kind of trying to read through the T leaves.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So Seth Roman been there forever still a top match.

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[SPEAKER_01]: CM Punk is actually the fresher of the three because he went away for so long.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But ever since he's come back, he's had some injury time off, but he's been.

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[SPEAKER_01]: the one sea guy to Roman encodies one A and one B. Yeah, and all of those guys have just been top guys and so you then I then I kind of watch this thing with Paul Hayman and Brown Breaker Paul Hayman's entire scenario right now

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[SPEAKER_01]: is about Austin Theory and Braun Brankers over here on the side, looking like a million trillion dollars and we are creating storylines for Austin Theory who they've given up on at least three different times and now they put Maxine in with him who they've given up on two different times.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just trying to figure out what the priorities are in this company when it comes to talent because I think you can always lean on a Seth and Roman and a punk you'd be stupid not to lean on them because they still have that that popularity and that start them, but it can't be going to the will so many times because if I was to compare and contrast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: the AEW thing, Kenny Omega has been with AEW since 2019.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that's seven years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: However, he has been in the top feuds.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's been phased out of the top feuds.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's been hurt.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's been back on TV.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he's basically been like his current story right now is the guy who used to be great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll see if he has one last run in him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And this is not to say.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the way that this is handled is the right way and the way that W2B is handling it is the wrong way, but Kenny Omega being there for seven years does not feel as done to death as Seth and Roman and punk in W2B and I think it's kind of an interesting

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[SPEAKER_01]: been a guy who can't pull the trigger anymore in this wink wink way we always knew like okay like he's if he's not a top guy he's quitting so like he's going to have to be a top guy but like it's just interesting to see how you know as we are comparing these two title matches this week how one company is positioning an old guy and how these other company positions their old guys and I feel like the company with the the two summer slams

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not into any of these matches.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I've seen them now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I will argue against myself and say that we talked about Roman and Seth not being done to death as a match and it hasn't.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They haven't spammed it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But the program that Seth is reminding us all about,

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[SPEAKER_01]: made me go, oh gosh, like we've seen this forever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like it didn't feel like a fresh thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It felt like we got to go back to these old feelings and now it makes it feel like they've done it to death when they haven't.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just really interesting to see.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know what the answer is for a WWE other than to really talk some of these guys into taking some major losses to put

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[SPEAKER_01]: I will get over the victory, but he already had to take a loss in order to get there and it just, it already feels a little played out to that level.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just, I'm finding WWE's inability to push anybody, you know, new.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Ellie night was like, he's like, oh, you know, I was part of this thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, back when I was part of helping us get going and I'm like, dude, come on now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's like you, you were not, but at the same time,

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, man, you just reminded me how long you've been on this company and it feels like I see you on TV every week, so it's just it's just interesting the way that they're doing it so I would push back just a little bit because I would say like number one yeah I agree with you on Roman and Seth and the thing is like it feels like that program.

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[SPEAKER_00]: it's not even really the program that Romans really is big thing that he's involved with right now his big thing is seems to be like an internal struggle with his own family you know with the usows and with solo and jake fat too and so this set thing feels like it's just going to be upon in that game

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it isn't that story in of itself.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Read mash of something from two years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, although if the end goal is to get Jacob fat too leveled up, then if that happens, then in that sense, they'll accomplish something.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you believe that though?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you believe they will ever pull the trigger on Jacob fat too?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think they're going to try.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's going to work, but I think they're going to try.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But that said, I mean, you know, Seth and Roman, I mean, if it's a main event of one of the nights of summer, so I'm, I'm not sure it will be, but if it is, then it does, I think it's the main match of the show to me, or I think it's like, I think the fans may choose that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the way that WWE's positioning these shows, I still think Seth the Roman is the top match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And well, okay, and to me, like I also think Cody and Punk is a big match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a match that they've kind of hinted at when Punk first arrived and they haven't done it yet.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think they ever they never did it in a W because I don't even know if they are both there at the same time or it was brief.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was brief.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was brief.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think they crossed right at the beginning maybe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean to me that's a big match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But again, like I think it's going to be a one off.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's going to be a feud.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see, but I mean they are like, I mean they're making new stars.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean the thing with Obo.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think what happened was like they didn't realize how fast Obo was going to get over to level that he did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So in the back of their mind, they're wanting to do Obo and Roman and next year's WrestleMania.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the problem is what do you do with Obo for a year?

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you can't just have him beating different people every single week because eventually you go through your whole roster and then, you know, and then everybody else looks like a geek.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they tied him up with Brock Lesnar and the way to stretch that out, I guess was to have him lose.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't have done it that way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would have just had him beat Brock all three times.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, and Brock continues to get frustrated and then, you know, and I don't think that would hurt the match at at some or so I'm you could have made a retirement match and, you know, and you know, and you know, Brock that's the only way it gets his match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You once retirement match and if I can't give it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm done.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You've you've created this scenario.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Where.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Brock is kind of able to say no to this stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, he's he's probably the second highest paid guy there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think behind Roman, I would imagine.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So he's probably got some say and him and as well is going to protect him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I also feel, I don't know about you, but I feel like.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Hamon's going to end up with Oba at some point just I don't know how or why or you know I don't know if he'll be able to be a baby face or heal, but he seems to want to get his hands on the guy that is the guy and Oba feels like the guy for the next like 10 years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So so I think like they've done a good job in building him and trick.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tricks not there in the ring, but they've made him a star.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Other than that, I mean, those two felt like layups from NXT and probably should have happened a year ago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they are, in that sense, making new stars.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, other than that, and it's a tricky balance.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you've talked about this a lot.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard you talk about it with Dave.

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[SPEAKER_00]: when you do wrestling is a radio with him and we've talked about it like trying to make new stars while not bearing your existing stars is a tricky balance.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And Tony gets away with it because he's got his own cheat code of just great matches.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the guys are going to get over with great matches and people don't even remember.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They don't even remember who wins or loses.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you can point it out like, oh, geez, this guy's lost four matches in a row and he's getting a title match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and okay, you know, and Annie's right, which is the conversation that we've had.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: ricochet in WWE versus ricochet in a W. Yeah, the person, the thought or the perception is that he's way higher on the card in a W and he's kind of at the same level.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He just gets to do more things lower.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, I don't, I don't go into any match with ricochet.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's going to win.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But he's producing great television.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's making a lot of money.

18:10.502 --> 18:23.316
[SPEAKER_00]: and he gets way better reactions than he did in WWE, so he doesn't look frustrated, no, it looks nice, so I mean, who cares, he could be the lowest Leo rushes, like the one of the lowest guys on the card and he's having the best run of his career.

18:23.966 --> 18:25.407
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, it's so hilarious.

18:25.508 --> 18:42.704
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, and, and, you know, because he's found a gimmick that works and is getting over and I don't think it's got any shelf lights, but I say things Dan House and in WWE and people hate when I make that comparison, and it's not exactly the same at all, but it's like a W's version of what WWE's doing with Dan House and they got this guy,

18:43.325 --> 18:49.048
[SPEAKER_00]: he's getting over with a goofy gimmick and differences with the open wrestle a ton, but it's the same thing.

18:49.388 --> 18:56.652
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're putting him into these situations that a guy at that level shouldn't be in, and he's getting over because he's entertaining.

18:56.952 --> 19:10.098
[SPEAKER_00]: And he'll never sell the same merch as Danhausen, like it's not the same, but I mean, for an A, W, he might, I mean, he might, you know, if they can find something that sells, I don't know what people would buy,

19:11.500 --> 19:16.110
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, he's not going to sell what Dan House and does, but I mean, nobody need W does.

19:18.516 --> 19:21.021
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't hate the punk thing, by the way.

19:21.614 --> 19:22.374
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

19:22.634 --> 19:25.075
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the right place, the right time.

19:25.095 --> 19:29.137
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a reason why I never bought any of this stuff.

19:29.537 --> 19:39.281
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even watch SmackDown because I was like, why am I going to invest in watching this show when Sam is going to lose the belt very quickly?

19:39.761 --> 19:47.024
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to be like, I'm just not going, I'm not going to fall for the banana tailpipe as Axel Foley once said.

19:47.044 --> 19:47.204
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't

19:47.404 --> 19:49.905
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually didn't, I didn't think he was going to lose.

19:50.206 --> 19:51.606
[SPEAKER_00]: I figured something was going to happen.

19:51.626 --> 19:55.288
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody, I thought what was going to happen was Gunther was going to interfere in the match.

19:55.869 --> 19:58.730
[SPEAKER_00]: And then like maybe Sammy would end up defending.

19:59.871 --> 20:05.194
[SPEAKER_00]: I kept thinking it was going to be Sammy Oba on night one and then Oba would defend against Brock on night two.

20:05.214 --> 20:07.515
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what I had in the back of my head was going to happen.

20:07.635 --> 20:12.038
[SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't even, this caught me off guard until raw started.

20:12.118 --> 20:13.959
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, because I only pay attention to where they are.

20:14.539 --> 20:16.961
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I realized they were in Chicago and it was like, oh, crap.

20:17.321 --> 20:22.746
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is funny, even if you didn't realize the fans were telling you, yeah, throughout the entire show.

20:22.866 --> 20:24.527
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, what they expected to have.

20:24.547 --> 20:26.268
[SPEAKER_00]: Cess promo, I mean, you know, they were tanning.

20:26.288 --> 20:35.275
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's funny is a little bit credit to our friend Brian Zalim because Kevin, Ely, was saying, oh, SmackDown is going to be an Oklahoma on Friday.

20:35.375 --> 20:38.258
[SPEAKER_00]: This is coming Friday and he's like, should I get tickets?

20:38.318 --> 20:39.258
[SPEAKER_00]: What, what can I expect?

20:39.639 --> 20:40.820
[SPEAKER_00]: And Brian says,

20:41.540 --> 20:44.283
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you'll get a confrontation between Cody and CM Punk.

20:44.943 --> 20:46.365
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is before Monday.

20:46.805 --> 20:54.452
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, Kevin, I wouldn't buy tickets expecting you to see a guy who hasn't been on TV in months in an unadvertised appearance.

20:56.274 --> 20:59.637
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably what we're going to get on, so Brian was a friend.

20:59.657 --> 21:00.177
[SPEAKER_00]: I was the cater.

21:00.357 --> 21:02.960
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, okay.

21:03.080 --> 21:06.223
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what my issue is with WWE right now.

21:08.062 --> 21:27.130
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if the PLEs were more dynamic, had more surprises, felt more like a culmination of things rather than just an extension of storylines that I'm already not super fired up about, I think I'd be okay with the very patterned TV because

21:28.743 --> 21:34.931
[SPEAKER_01]: I watch the TV to kind of see what the builds are to see what the probes are how they're getting to the end game.

21:35.452 --> 21:38.876
[SPEAKER_01]: And the problem is with the PLEs, I'm not getting an end game.

21:40.307 --> 21:53.815
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just I'm seeing an extension of the television with with some longer matches and by the way, like, maybe not as many commercials as Netflix, but not that, you know, not also that that much less than Netflix.

21:53.835 --> 21:55.176
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just like, yeah, the commercials.

21:55.256 --> 21:57.597
[SPEAKER_00]: Every happening, every not during the matches.

21:57.617 --> 21:57.937
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all.

21:58.017 --> 21:59.278
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything feels like television.

21:59.578 --> 22:00.739
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing feels important.

22:01.159 --> 22:02.460
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's my problem with it.

22:02.480 --> 22:08.084
[SPEAKER_01]: So in this scenario where they give you something big like that on on raw, in the back of my mind,

22:10.088 --> 22:10.568
[SPEAKER_01]: great.

22:11.249 --> 22:32.389
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish this would have been a paper view match so that I didn't have to sit through these commercial breaks and I didn't have to get the you know the fake T's and the surprise and all so I could see like a really good match and like the story that that would elevate Sammy at the same time, which like you said, if you have this match in AEW,

22:33.573 --> 22:38.496
[SPEAKER_01]: Sammy loses and you're like, okay, he lost, but he had an amazing match.

22:38.556 --> 22:49.622
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the best he's looked at against top guy ever, but on WWE TV, it feels like Triple H saying, ha ha, and you guys thought Sammy was possibly one of the top guys.

22:49.642 --> 22:53.244
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's just what, yeah, I'm pretty much a gold watch.

22:53.504 --> 22:56.966
[SPEAKER_00]: And now let's go back to the midcard and I'm probably.

22:58.182 --> 23:06.508
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, doing a little bit of like, maybe triple H feels that way or maybe he doesn't whatever, just he's he's so smug like I just think of it that way.

23:07.349 --> 23:09.210
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they will do something with Sammy.

23:09.330 --> 23:21.920
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been, you know, we've all been wondering that for years, maybe Kale comes back and they do something with Sammy, but, you know, there's this other aspect of this entire thing where you mentioned the gold watch thing.

23:23.166 --> 23:37.650
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, of all the places to do the gold watch thing, like WWE will tell you that A-A-E-W is not about the grind, they don't want to do the work, they don't want to X-Y-N-Z.

23:38.150 --> 23:45.372
[SPEAKER_01]: Yet, it seems like a major selling point for WWE to stay along to stay a board long term is,

23:46.450 --> 24:12.968
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you can throw us a WrestleMania and maybe you'll get a legends deal after this is done and if you're lucky you might get a title run and maybe you'll get a Hall of Fame and it's just like all of these things these little these little treasures that have nothing to do with the current day to day business star making business I think that's also part of what is kind of bothersome with me about this idea that

24:13.548 --> 24:31.564
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're we're we're padding Sammy on the back and we're using him as the transition, but guess what, you know, the iron, you know, the iron sheik is is someone who's who wrestling fans always remember this like yeah, you know, I don't I don't that's because he lost a whole coke, it's not because he, you know, lost to see him punk on a Monday net raw.

24:32.084 --> 24:40.612
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, there's another thing to that they might be telling them is like, okay, I seem like this this comparison gets made so often now is like to model chomp.

24:41.375 --> 24:55.830
[SPEAKER_00]: He leaves WWE goes into a w immediately is put into like programs with top guys or you know semi top guys winning a lot of matches having these killer matches right everyone's like oh man look at what he's doing compared to what Johnny Gargana's doing.

24:57.148 --> 25:00.129
[SPEAKER_00]: WWE might be telling their guys, look at what Trump is having to do.

25:00.549 --> 25:03.510
[SPEAKER_00]: He's out there killing himself every week.

25:03.610 --> 25:04.910
[SPEAKER_00]: Tony caught his a mad man.

25:04.950 --> 25:06.291
[SPEAKER_00]: He's putting them out there in matches.

25:06.731 --> 25:08.511
[SPEAKER_00]: They're having these 20 minute wars.

25:08.551 --> 25:09.632
[SPEAKER_00]: He's bleeding buckets.

25:09.672 --> 25:11.152
[SPEAKER_00]: He's killing his body.

25:11.472 --> 25:13.113
[SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, you could come here.

25:13.373 --> 25:14.573
[SPEAKER_00]: You could work once a month.

25:15.073 --> 25:15.934
[SPEAKER_00]: Take it easy.

25:16.414 --> 25:18.054
[SPEAKER_00]: Skip paid the same amount of money.

25:18.595 --> 25:19.215
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what?

25:20.455 --> 25:34.593
[SPEAKER_00]: I think as fans, we'd love to think these guys just want to go out there and have these awesome matches for us, and maybe some of them do, but some of them might just want to do as little work as possible and make a lot of money and be big stars.

25:35.194 --> 25:37.998
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, which side do you think Johnny Gargano falls on, though?

25:38.798 --> 26:03.160
[SPEAKER_00]: uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh

26:03.660 --> 26:10.001
[SPEAKER_01]: and he is being positioned in a way that tells the audience that he is nobody special.

26:10.421 --> 26:25.985
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you have any ego or any pride, and I think you have to have that in order to be a pro wrestler because a whole idea of being a pro wrestler is like leveling up or getting play and shooting above your, you know, above your level to show people, I would imagine now some of it is health, right?

26:26.005 --> 26:28.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea what is health is like right now, right?

26:28.805 --> 26:29.305
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would

26:32.226 --> 26:34.868
[SPEAKER_01]: Looks like he's having a blast, is he working his ass off?

26:34.909 --> 26:40.694
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but at that professional level, you kind of have that instinct.

26:40.734 --> 26:42.615
[SPEAKER_01]: You have that drive to do that.

26:42.675 --> 26:43.756
[SPEAKER_01]: You have that like that.

26:43.776 --> 26:45.018
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I imagine.

26:45.258 --> 26:45.918
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.

26:45.958 --> 26:47.680
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to talk to the guy to know.

26:47.960 --> 26:51.043
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't even necessarily thinking of Gargano, but I brought that up.

26:51.123 --> 26:53.525
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, because you have to think of both of them.

26:53.545 --> 26:55.467
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you look at Sammy for instance though,

26:55.767 --> 27:19.374
[SPEAKER_00]: like Sammy could go over to the other side and probably have great matches because he's still very good wrestler and make a lot of money and bust his body or he could stay over here make and you know in there's rumors that he maybe he took a pay cut right to stay and and if but but he's still making very good money and not having to wrestle all these matches he's making money it's kind of like the McFoly thing.

27:19.614 --> 27:30.483
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in the last year of his, of his WWE run, where he says he made more money doing less because all he was doing was talking, you know, he wasn't taking the bumps.

27:30.763 --> 27:36.908
[SPEAKER_00]: And Sammy is going to wrestle every now and then, but, but he's not having to bust his ass like he did coming up.

27:37.809 --> 27:41.412
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, for some guys, that may be more appealing to them.

27:41.732 --> 27:44.975
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I don't know, like I get a little Randy Orton, I'll bet you he loves it.

27:45.813 --> 27:49.397
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, and that's not to say, Randy Orton couldn't go to a W and have great matches.

27:49.417 --> 27:50.077
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he could.

27:50.758 --> 27:51.659
[SPEAKER_00]: But why would he?

27:52.299 --> 27:56.283
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he doesn't have to, um, you know, I mean, I think if you're at the top.

27:56.823 --> 27:58.085
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of each side.

27:58.845 --> 28:00.407
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably best to stay.

28:01.277 --> 28:13.704
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you know, and even a guy like I look at a guy like a Kenny Omega for instance, like I'm not saying he wants to jump, but he's feeling physically beat down and stuff and man going to the other side may look attractive in some ways.

28:13.724 --> 28:18.527
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's ever going to do it because I think Tony Khan would let him work that schedule in a W and

28:18.967 --> 28:28.734
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I pay him because he's an important part of that company kind of does work that schedule does kind of does, but when he works, he works his ass off and and you know, and we'll talk about he's also driven in it.

28:28.794 --> 28:37.099
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and and again, I don't know Kenny, but he feels like the kind of guy that would rather just not even like he'd probably rather retire than work at 75%.

28:37.139 --> 28:43.964
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, he told I don't know if he may have told David me he may have told in another interview, but.

28:45.585 --> 28:45.745
[SPEAKER_01]: Um.

28:46.474 --> 28:58.662
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe he or Dave, I think Dave may have said this on a show before, but I think Kenny thought he's like, okay, WWE will pay me a lot of money.

29:00.103 --> 29:01.644
[SPEAKER_01]: I won't have to really.

29:02.833 --> 29:15.918
[SPEAKER_01]: do the amount of thinking and the amount of creative like energy as I do wrestling in AW, like I'll just kind of turn my brain off and I'll just do what they want me to do.

29:16.519 --> 29:26.063
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, it could be an attractive thing because doing it the way that he does it,

29:26.982 --> 29:29.243
[SPEAKER_01]: He just drains the hell out of himself, right?

29:29.343 --> 29:31.765
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he has a high standard.

29:32.325 --> 29:34.606
[SPEAKER_01]: He's thinking about X, Y, and Z.

29:34.706 --> 29:36.087
[SPEAKER_01]: He's doing all these things that he wants to do.

29:36.127 --> 29:38.288
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it could be attractive.

29:38.748 --> 29:49.714
[SPEAKER_01]: But I guess the, and for me, I definitely get the viewpoint of like a, do less and make a good amount of money because you protect your body.

29:49.734 --> 29:51.835
[SPEAKER_01]: And that way, and it will help with your longevity.

29:52.036 --> 29:52.516
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

29:52.756 --> 29:55.277
[SPEAKER_01]: But the problem with that, the problem with that,

29:57.663 --> 30:03.224
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think T.K.L's going to allow that stuff, the way that maybe some of these wrestlers think that it's going to be allowed.

30:03.264 --> 30:07.686
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not for the length of time that these guys would probably think that they could do it.

30:07.706 --> 30:09.166
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're right about that.

30:09.226 --> 30:13.187
[SPEAKER_01]: Take or it's a special exemption to that, right?

30:13.207 --> 30:13.487
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

30:13.707 --> 30:13.907
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

30:14.307 --> 30:14.767
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

30:14.827 --> 30:19.869
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like family to, to those grown men, Roman would be in that category.

30:19.909 --> 30:24.350
[SPEAKER_01]: But look, let's say, let's say Triple H and Stephanie,

30:26.552 --> 30:29.415
[SPEAKER_01]: get maneuvered out of that place in some way.

30:30.316 --> 30:31.237
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which could happen.

30:32.158 --> 30:37.684
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying it is, I'm not saying it is, and I don't have any insight information, but let's just say you've seen these kind of things happen.

30:38.304 --> 30:38.445
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

30:38.465 --> 30:48.195
[SPEAKER_01]: We've, uh, dark side of the ring has TNA, uh, and, you know, Jeff Jarrett has kind of was, it was his company and he was angled out in his, you know, in his own way.

30:48.956 --> 30:49.176
[SPEAKER_01]: But,

30:50.417 --> 31:00.143
[SPEAKER_01]: If, if Triple H and Stephanie were not involved, who is to say that the undertaker's job security, Shawn Michaels's job security, all of those things, right?

31:00.163 --> 31:10.088
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all kind of connected to this old guard and I do think, you know, unless somebody thinks undertakers is creative genius.

31:10.128 --> 31:11.849
[SPEAKER_01]: He's getting so much credit for Triple A.

31:13.567 --> 31:21.272
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know that those jobs really exist for somebody like AJ styles.

31:21.292 --> 31:22.812
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we'll see with AJ styles.

31:22.892 --> 31:27.495
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very interested to see how hometown WWE.

31:27.555 --> 31:32.758
[SPEAKER_01]: He really is going to to be as he was he was like a he was a a star.

31:33.118 --> 31:37.081
[SPEAKER_01]: But you would never equate him as like the tippy tippy top star.

31:37.121 --> 31:41.443
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like he was one of those guys who again, because he's so.

31:43.788 --> 31:53.421
[SPEAKER_01]: his work ethic and the way his brain works he was going to make sure that he got the most out of his divinity run even though people probably thought he made the wrong decision.

31:53.481 --> 32:00.810
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he just driven in that way and he did he got higher than I think most of us thought that they would have allowed him to get probably anybody.

32:01.535 --> 32:12.847
[SPEAKER_01]: So like it's those guys yeah like I don't know what new day saw But if they thought the same way maybe they do take that pay cut and go

32:13.753 --> 32:18.737
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we can keep our video game channels and we could keep our merch and we can do it.

32:18.817 --> 32:21.679
[SPEAKER_01]: But nope, they decided, no, we're not doing that.

32:21.739 --> 32:24.641
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think people expect them to show up in AWS.

32:24.681 --> 32:24.941
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

32:25.041 --> 32:30.485
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that they'll probably get compensated similar to how they were in a in WWE.

32:31.005 --> 32:34.908
[SPEAKER_00]: So in that sense, then they can be creatively fulfilled and make money.

32:34.968 --> 32:37.350
[SPEAKER_00]: And for them, that's important because they just spent the last

32:38.229 --> 32:45.171
[SPEAKER_00]: three, four years, you know, basically I'm sure they feel being wasted and regardless of whether or not they're making money and they're not getting any younger.

32:45.191 --> 32:51.173
[SPEAKER_00]: I think copicophias, you know, mid to late 40s already, Xavier's, Xavier's past 40 I think.

32:51.753 --> 33:03.056
[SPEAKER_00]: So for them, like they don't have many years left to be able to do this, and I think they still have the name value that fused with the young bucks or FTR or Copicage.

33:03.556 --> 33:05.777
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to see that, but I know a lot of people do.

33:07.077 --> 33:25.049
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so you know that they can probably get a couple really nice years there and then retire and and maybe even help out and creative they probably think that too because and especially Xavier has that kind of mind where I you know I think that could be a resource and he can tap into an audience that I don't think a W really goes after.

33:25.069 --> 33:28.951
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I didn't even really mean for the conversation to veer.

33:28.971 --> 33:31.273
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I was just trying to like figure like.

33:32.188 --> 33:42.071
[SPEAKER_01]: just on an island into itself without like if I wasn't following business closely, would I have thought that CM Punk moment was awesome?

33:42.091 --> 33:56.215
[SPEAKER_01]: I probably would have and I still thought it was good and I still thought it was entertaining, but you know, just kind of following the tea leaves and in watching how WWE creative has been, I just felt a little bit like,

33:57.770 --> 34:05.377
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we did all of this stuff just to essentially get back to the same place that we were going to be anyway, and that feels a little bit like a waste.

34:05.537 --> 34:07.438
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, for me, I enjoyed it.

34:07.839 --> 34:20.169
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, and when you talked about a wood would WWE headline summer time with Sammy, I thought there was a possibility that they could, or at least put him in a key match, maybe not headlining, but I also think this is better.

34:21.030 --> 34:42.688
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, yeah, it sucks for Sammy, but I'll be honest, like I haven't really been all that invested in Sammy since Montreal, you know, since, you know, I mean, that's, yes, that's what it is, like that kind of knocked him down that peg was, and for me it was like it told me and he, you know, it wasn't even so much of that, it wasn't even so much WWE tell me he said it himself.

34:43.248 --> 34:46.771
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like he gave he basically gave up at that point.

34:46.811 --> 34:48.653
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like they're never going to see this with me.

34:48.753 --> 34:49.934
[SPEAKER_00]: I may get to title at some point.

34:49.954 --> 34:52.357
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be great if I did, but I'm never going to be the guy.

34:52.637 --> 34:54.379
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's fine with me.

34:54.459 --> 35:00.745
[SPEAKER_00]: And Danielson even had that mindset at one point because, you know, it just wasn't going to happen for him.

35:00.765 --> 35:04.768
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he went to the AW and, and you know, and I think he felt differently by the end there.

35:05.429 --> 35:07.971
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I was trying to

35:09.898 --> 35:12.018
[SPEAKER_01]: Just create conversation with Dave on Friday.

35:12.178 --> 35:34.502
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, do you think it's possible that WWE, someone in WWE watched the Darby run and said, huh, we could do something similar for three weeks of TV building to SummerSlam where Sammy just defends in main events every single tell of raw smackdown.

35:34.522 --> 35:38.243
[SPEAKER_01]: He just, he just put no title matches because of how

35:39.330 --> 35:53.821
[SPEAKER_01]: for whatever reason a w tv just seemed a little bit more important because it had a title match even though we knew all of that we essentially guessed all of the finishes right like we knew where everything was going but just it might have been just Darby just his

35:54.582 --> 36:04.007
[SPEAKER_01]: that shotgun style that he has that made it interesting, whatever it was for whatever reason those shows, there was more intrigue because there was title mentioned.

36:04.027 --> 36:06.348
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, do you think that they will possibly do?

36:06.388 --> 36:07.128
[SPEAKER_01]: This was Sammy now.

36:07.228 --> 36:08.209
[SPEAKER_01]: Did I think that?

36:08.289 --> 36:17.973
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I was trying to create conversation with Dave, you know, sometimes I'm trying to, yeah, I think Dave has exhausted the topic and I asked him something different to get him to think about something differently.

36:23.490 --> 36:30.420
[SPEAKER_01]: They copied that thing because I wanted Sammy to get something out of this and it doesn't feel like he did.

36:30.978 --> 36:39.001
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I know that I love that idea at first when he first mentioned it and then I realized, well, it wouldn't have worked because he's a heal.

36:39.641 --> 36:45.083
[SPEAKER_00]: And the character would not have been Darby wanting to defend the title and going out there.

36:45.103 --> 36:47.784
[SPEAKER_01]: But he didn't have to keep him as a heal though after he won.

36:47.804 --> 36:48.184
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.

36:48.244 --> 36:49.805
[SPEAKER_00]: He could have been like the people's champ.

36:50.205 --> 36:54.887
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true, but then, you know, then you're sacrificing your longer term storylines they have with everyone else.

36:55.447 --> 36:58.108
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, maybe that's what they should have done.

36:58.718 --> 37:06.566
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, because I did think that this was the long run of this was going to end up with Sammy being a more over baby face than he was before.

37:07.087 --> 37:09.289
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that whole rider dive thing and everything like that.

37:09.389 --> 37:11.051
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm, I've given up on that.

37:11.471 --> 37:12.692
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I, you know, he's,

37:13.821 --> 37:39.392
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to be right back down the card lower than he was before this thing with Cody started I think I think that Cody and him are done and it's Cody and punk now and then you know punk is going to move on to whatever Cody's going to be shooting with Gunther and you are maybe punk's going to be shooting with Gunther and and then Cody I don't know I mean maybe Cody and suddenly I have a few but that just feels like it would be just something to buy the time for Cody Sam Sam he's never going to be Cody like I

37:39.852 --> 37:44.620
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe, you know, you cheat and get one win in a best of nine or something.

37:46.939 --> 38:00.185
[SPEAKER_01]: So this next topic we're going to talk about will be a little bit more interesting next week when we do exactly what happens, but we want to talk about MJF and Kenny Omega and the few options that they have here and what they may do.

38:01.105 --> 38:05.247
[SPEAKER_01]: So what is the line that MJF said on the promo?

38:05.628 --> 38:10.590
[SPEAKER_01]: So he said, if if I beat you and if you lose,

38:11.882 --> 38:14.382
[SPEAKER_00]: That is, then, you can never challenge for the title of the game.

38:14.643 --> 38:16.003
[SPEAKER_00]: That was his exact words.

38:16.463 --> 38:27.245
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, kiddo, actually, he said, if the same thing that happens with Hangman happens with you and then he stopped and then he said, if I beat you and if you lose.

38:27.505 --> 38:32.526
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it almost came off like he had forgotten, but I think what he was doing in his own, like, he's a smart guy.

38:32.886 --> 38:37.987
[SPEAKER_00]: He was trying to clarify what this meant so that there was no questions, you know, after the fact.

38:39.448 --> 38:43.069
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have a few different scenarios here at play.

38:43.529 --> 38:46.410
[SPEAKER_01]: One is Kenny just wins the world title on this show.

38:47.130 --> 38:52.451
[SPEAKER_01]: And they have to figure out what the redemption main event is or the redemption title matches.

38:53.371 --> 39:00.433
[SPEAKER_01]: The second scenario is MJF somehow just qualifies himself.

39:01.571 --> 39:04.936
[SPEAKER_01]: And it sets up a second match at redemption.

39:05.096 --> 39:06.979
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, maybe he's got the ring.

39:07.019 --> 39:11.585
[SPEAKER_01]: He thinks he sneaks away with it, but no referee comes in and says, no, you got to do good.

39:11.666 --> 39:13.909
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that would make Kenny feel a little weak.

39:14.750 --> 39:16.673
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I would do that necessarily.

39:19.050 --> 39:28.680
[SPEAKER_01]: And then another way would be to run a draw, if I don't, I don't know what the time is 60 minute draw, I guess it would have to be 60 minutes to the world title match.

39:29.001 --> 39:29.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

39:29.301 --> 39:36.589
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you get to the end to the end to the end and it's a draw they've done that before when they do only have four matches scheduled for tomorrow.

39:37.430 --> 39:39.112
[SPEAKER_01]: They did that with MJF and Will, right?

39:39.132 --> 39:40.873
[SPEAKER_01]: Didn't they go to the full 60 minutes?

39:41.193 --> 39:42.214
[SPEAKER_01]: No, they went.

39:42.254 --> 39:46.278
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like 59, 56 or something.

39:46.538 --> 39:47.719
[SPEAKER_00]: But then MJF won.

39:47.939 --> 39:48.399
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.

39:48.419 --> 39:49.260
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.

39:49.500 --> 39:50.421
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm remembering that, right?

39:50.661 --> 39:51.102
[SPEAKER_00]: Or you know what?

39:51.122 --> 39:54.304
[SPEAKER_00]: I might be thinking of there was an FTR tag match like that.

39:54.885 --> 39:57.687
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it was, maybe they're, they've done this twice.

39:57.908 --> 40:01.190
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of them went to a draw on the other one got a finish with like four seconds left.

40:02.211 --> 40:02.892
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um,

40:04.275 --> 40:24.946
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so is there another scenario that can happen where Kenny does not lose or Kenny does not lose this opportunity because you would think now from a business standpoint to me, the goal of this show should be

40:33.141 --> 40:36.183
[SPEAKER_01]: we may, you know, they were teasing Kenny's going to win.

40:36.304 --> 40:41.007
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't win the title, but that's because he's going to win it on this bigger show.

40:41.488 --> 40:42.849
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you get people to pay.

40:42.909 --> 40:47.232
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of how I have always understood progressing business to work.

40:47.933 --> 40:51.976
[SPEAKER_01]: Now Tony Khan was just, I may have been in that same interview that I was talking about.

40:51.996 --> 40:53.097
[SPEAKER_01]: He was talking about how

40:54.997 --> 41:05.503
[SPEAKER_01]: how they're putting so many title matches on TV and when to save for the paper and he said and that interview like we still saved the best for the paper view like that's still the goal.

41:06.184 --> 41:18.671
[SPEAKER_01]: So is there anything else that we are not thinking of that could happen where we are getting to still getting to this match at redemption and Kenny not losing his opportunity?

41:19.431 --> 41:20.132
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean,

41:21.998 --> 41:28.981
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the wall, the one thing you didn't mention, I mean, you could have like a no contest, you know, where neither guy wins and it's not a draw.

41:29.141 --> 41:31.242
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, but that's basically the same as a draw.

41:31.262 --> 41:37.265
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't, you know, I don't really know, you know, and depending on how that happened, Kenny could look weak or not look weak.

41:37.425 --> 41:42.028
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, I mean, there's another possibility here, and to be honest,

41:42.928 --> 42:00.161
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the first one that popped into my head when this match was announced and then I thought, hmm, now I don't, I mean, the possibility of MJF wins, you know, and because everyone just assumes, can you make it challenging for the title of Montreal?

42:00.181 --> 42:05.504
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to win the title, he's going to go and he's going to face Will Osprey at all and that's just what everyone's thinking.

42:05.945 --> 42:08.547
[SPEAKER_00]: Now at the same time, you've got MJF,

42:09.660 --> 42:12.441
[SPEAKER_00]: He's clearly building a title match with Will Osprey.

42:12.642 --> 42:15.063
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time they interact, they talk about Wembley.

42:15.483 --> 42:17.844
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got on Draw Day who wants to match with MJF.

42:18.525 --> 42:26.128
[SPEAKER_00]: And God, it sure makes a lot of sense to see on Draw Day and MJF in at Grants on Mexico, which is coming up in three weeks.

42:27.109 --> 42:29.250
[SPEAKER_00]: But if MJF doesn't have the belt, you can't do that.

42:30.191 --> 42:33.612
[SPEAKER_00]: You've also got Kevin Knight who's been promised a title match with MJF.

42:34.293 --> 42:36.474
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if MJF loses the title, you can't do that either.

42:37.708 --> 42:47.957
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and the, you know, Droughty match would be after redemption, so even if Kenny doesn't win here gets a rematch of Montreal wins there, what about the Androughty match?

42:48.097 --> 42:51.339
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you could do on droughty and him and Kenny, but that's not what this is about.

42:51.379 --> 42:56.063
[SPEAKER_00]: This is all been about on droughty and mjf and on droughty getting a title match against mjf.

42:56.624 --> 43:00.427
[SPEAKER_00]: So there is a possibility that Kenny just loses and maybe.

43:02.736 --> 43:07.301
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, do you remember the last time that they announced an M.J.F.

43:07.401 --> 43:10.624
[SPEAKER_00]: Kenny Omega match with no notice and put it on free TV?

43:13.287 --> 43:13.607
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

43:13.707 --> 43:17.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this was, it was on a collision, believe it or not.

43:17.912 --> 43:18.532
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh.

43:18.973 --> 43:22.817
[SPEAKER_00]: And Kenny ended up leaving with a long-term injury right after that.

43:22.837 --> 43:23.918
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

43:25.258 --> 43:26.339
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know anything.

43:26.399 --> 43:27.500
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not Kenny's doctor.

43:27.520 --> 43:40.851
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have any insight info, but what if Kenny is not 100% and maybe he's tells Tony, I could do one more match when do you want it?

43:41.971 --> 43:53.521
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like I'm gonna lose, but when do you want it, you know, and maybe in Tony's mind, if he doesn't now, he can still build to something in Montreal, you know, and that's why they're doing it here.

43:54.637 --> 44:02.799
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, you know, I'm just throwing this out there as a positive, you know, everything is on the table, and I think that's what makes this pretty compelling, right?

44:02.859 --> 44:03.159
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

44:03.359 --> 44:03.599
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

44:03.899 --> 44:12.441
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll go tomorrow, like, you know, and like, if I'm just beats them, I mean, everyone's going to be like, holy shit, like, you know, like, what, what now?

44:12.842 --> 44:14.482
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it'll make a lot of people sad, actually.

44:14.942 --> 44:23.994
[SPEAKER_00]: It would, but if they think that there might be something better coming, then, you know, then, you know, Tony, it's Tony's built up a lot of good faith with people.

44:24.094 --> 44:30.582
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Brian Danyson, we didn't think he was going to lose and, and I mean, we thought he was going to lose and be gone for a little while.

44:30.623 --> 44:32.245
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't think he'd still be gone.

44:33.065 --> 44:48.179
[SPEAKER_00]: People thought he was going to be back wrestling six times a year, you know, I remember that and I was, I don't know, I feel like he might be done, you know, and he was telling people, I might be done, but you know, and I don't know Kenny, I don't think he would tip his hand, I really don't.

44:51.120 --> 44:59.145
[SPEAKER_00]: Now if they do the thing and then you know the possibility is and this is I'll give credit to Ryan Frederick He came up with his idea and it makes all sense to me too.

44:59.485 --> 45:06.229
[SPEAKER_00]: They do the time limit draw So Kenny doesn't lose MJF doesn't win What do we do now?

45:06.809 --> 45:08.570
[SPEAKER_00]: MJF says okay, I'm done with you.

45:09.090 --> 45:13.472
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not you know I let's move on to somebody else and Kenny says no.

45:13.573 --> 45:16.494
[SPEAKER_00]: I want you and we've got this paper view of Montreal redemption

45:19.577 --> 45:21.278
[SPEAKER_01]: against MJF now at this point.

45:21.578 --> 45:22.339
[SPEAKER_00]: And you could do that.

45:22.979 --> 45:24.220
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I thought about that one too.

45:24.240 --> 45:24.580
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

45:24.700 --> 45:31.384
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think if they do that, that's when you're going to get the shoot interview from Kenny Omega, maybe with Dave.

45:32.725 --> 45:34.646
[SPEAKER_00]: And Kenny's going to hit, you know what?

45:34.706 --> 45:36.547
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this has been hard on my body.

45:36.607 --> 45:39.208
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, I just might have to hang it up.

45:39.809 --> 45:43.871
[SPEAKER_00]: And then at that point, if he says that in the interview, I wouldn't buy for a second.

45:44.671 --> 45:45.492
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's just him

45:49.594 --> 45:53.879
[SPEAKER_00]: And this company's a good hands, you know, even if I'm not there and you know, it's something like that.

45:53.999 --> 46:01.786
[SPEAKER_00]: But so yeah, if that happens, like I would, I would actually expect Kenny to win, even though he's going to do everything he can to convince people he might not.

46:03.027 --> 46:06.150
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is exactly opposite of booking, but that's Kenny.

46:06.210 --> 46:07.852
[SPEAKER_00]: Can he thinks differently than everybody else?

46:08.753 --> 46:09.774
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always remembered of

46:11.807 --> 46:16.530
[SPEAKER_01]: when Dave and I were in Vegas for the first double or nothing, the pre-ticket party and we actually got omega.

46:16.670 --> 46:16.950
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

46:17.390 --> 46:23.734
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, you know, I was, I mostly let Dave and Kenny, like I wasn't really into asking the questions.

46:23.774 --> 46:25.475
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, making sure it's got recorded.

46:25.495 --> 46:28.376
[SPEAKER_01]: And like that was like, what my anxiety was about.

46:29.537 --> 46:33.559
[SPEAKER_01]: And just the uniqueness of him and the honesty.

46:33.659 --> 46:34.660
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm not saying that he's

46:35.817 --> 46:49.367
[SPEAKER_01]: going to tell us everything truthfully from the heart like I'm sure he does save certain things or says I'm in a certain way to make sure that he doesn't you know give out everything but just just so unique and I think Dave.

46:51.372 --> 46:58.935
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Dave likes talking wrestling with Kenny, because like you said, Kenny thinks a little bit differently.

46:59.355 --> 47:09.019
[SPEAKER_01]: He thinks a little technically, but also understands kind of the old school way of,

47:09.619 --> 47:13.961
[SPEAKER_01]: If we got to call it in the ring or if we got to change something like that, that really impressed the day.

47:14.742 --> 47:20.665
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's also funny about that night is like, you go from having this awesome interview with Kenny.

47:21.286 --> 47:23.407
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we also interviewed Tony that day.

47:23.987 --> 47:28.089
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we saw Tony it forbidden door, I kind of reminded him of that interview.

47:28.189 --> 47:30.271
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't, I wasn't trying to embarrass him.

47:30.731 --> 47:32.492
[SPEAKER_01]: But someone had brought up that.

47:33.032 --> 47:46.450
[SPEAKER_01]: he is like so much more polished as an interview than he used to be and so I was like do you remember the first time that we talked to and he kind of didn't really remember he kind of remembered it but you know he's talked to Dave and me and Dave and Brian like a bunch of different times.

47:47.560 --> 48:06.447
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was not trying to say he was bad, but I was saying you couldn't really tell us anything like we would ask you questions and you couldn't really talk about it yet and he was like really like how come like what were we talking about and I just kind of decided to end it because I was like I didn't want to say like they introduced softer anything because I don't want her to feel it.

48:06.487 --> 48:14.769
[SPEAKER_01]: But just like just me thinking back and reflecting like man, you know,

48:17.820 --> 48:24.627
[SPEAKER_01]: being on the origin story of how they started, I think about that.

48:24.947 --> 48:40.662
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think about here we are seven years later, and I'm still intrigued at certain things that they do, which tells you, and it was kind of why I compared them in the beginning, like why am I tired of how WWE is doing it right now, and why am I still intrigued, even though

48:42.022 --> 48:45.004
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're kind of similar stories, right?

48:45.044 --> 48:53.508
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, old guy coming back and WWE just does it one way, WWE does it a different way and just it just made me reflect a little bit on on those days.

48:53.568 --> 48:54.729
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, yeah, no.

48:54.869 --> 49:00.993
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think like, well, one of the things I like about Kenny is every time you ask him a question.

49:02.102 --> 49:04.042
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't just spout off an answer.

49:04.262 --> 49:06.143
[SPEAKER_00]: He thinks about what he's going to say.

49:06.243 --> 49:12.684
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he sometimes that silence for a podcast is a little awkward, so you're just sitting there going like, oh, oh.

49:12.824 --> 49:14.305
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, you're going to get a good answer.

49:14.385 --> 49:15.505
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's worth it.

49:15.745 --> 49:16.005
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

49:16.305 --> 49:17.685
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's good.

49:17.745 --> 49:19.306
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's better in a live setting.

49:19.486 --> 49:22.666
[SPEAKER_00]: Because again, he won't just have these pad answers set up.

49:22.986 --> 49:27.067
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he may have them set up, but he's trying to think of, OK, how do I get to the answer?

49:27.087 --> 49:29.528
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to give while still answering the question that they ask me.

49:30.388 --> 49:30.928
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

49:31.248 --> 49:34.854
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas, some guys will just give you the answer that they want to give you.

49:34.934 --> 49:38.440
[SPEAKER_00]: Regardless of what question you ask them and Tony's actually really good at that one.

49:40.424 --> 49:45.031
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll take your question and spin it to whatever narrative he wanted to get out in that moment.

49:45.946 --> 49:50.368
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the art of asking him a question is an interesting one.

49:50.728 --> 49:51.068
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

49:51.148 --> 49:56.289
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but yeah, so I'm super intrigued for tomorrow and I mean, I'm really fired up for the show.

49:56.550 --> 50:12.855
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's one of the better lineups they've had in my opinion, and it's only four matches, but you know, you got Kenoskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskitskits

50:13.335 --> 50:21.926
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, and then we got the women's gauntlet, which I think we'll probably see will come back and win the title, and then we get Willow and Tecla at Redemption.

50:22.987 --> 50:29.134
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the fourth, you know, Jericho and Choppa, which I think will be a, you know, crazy brawl.

50:29.174 --> 50:30.055
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be a lot of fun.

50:30.075 --> 50:31.957
[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine Jericho's

50:33.395 --> 50:37.619
[SPEAKER_01]: When that match was announced, it seemed like that was going to be the main event of the show.

50:37.919 --> 50:38.139
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

50:38.600 --> 50:41.762
[SPEAKER_01]: And then these other two, these are the three matches got announced.

50:41.922 --> 50:43.364
[SPEAKER_01]: And now it's kind of like the fourth.

50:44.004 --> 50:47.988
[SPEAKER_00]: It may end up being the main event because I have a feeling they might kick off with the world title match.

50:49.209 --> 50:55.575
[SPEAKER_00]: because if it has an hour time limit, that's what you want to do because they have the highest number of people usually tune in at the beginning of the show.

50:55.935 --> 51:04.523
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the way you can keep your audience for, you know, if they if they tease an hour drive, they go a full hour, you know, I don't think that match is going any less than 30 minutes.

51:05.103 --> 51:14.551
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think because of that, I think Jericho will probably do something a little different because he's not going to be able to have a better wrestling match than those other two matches.

51:15.352 --> 51:23.519
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if we'll see like a brawl or if I'm going to the outside or going, you know, outside of the arena and I wonder if we get a little of that.

51:23.859 --> 51:27.883
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe this is time for Jericho's next evolution of a character.

51:28.963 --> 51:32.585
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, where, you know, like he, because he, I don't think he's beaten Trump on his own.

51:32.845 --> 51:37.187
[SPEAKER_00]: So either he's just going to lose to Trump or maybe we get to see maybe he's going to have a new crew.

51:37.207 --> 51:39.047
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been a while since he's had a crew.

51:39.788 --> 51:40.048
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

51:40.288 --> 51:42.449
[SPEAKER_01]: So, shameless would be interesting for him.

51:42.469 --> 51:43.849
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

51:43.989 --> 51:46.551
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, we'll talk about shameless another time.

51:46.571 --> 51:47.051
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, yeah.

51:47.451 --> 51:51.313
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's deserving of having another episode where that's one of our main segments.

51:51.373 --> 51:52.353
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that kind of.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We couldn't do that this week, but maybe we can do that next week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, we had a lot this week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, uh,

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so you and Jeff back after dying to my, do you worry that Dynamite's going to go a little long?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it may go a little long.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it'll go.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully it doesn't go more than 20 minutes or so, but whatever, it'll be worth it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think tomorrow.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think Jeff and I are going to have a lot to talk about.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and we've got a couple of things we're kicking around and we also have a new project we're going to plug tomorrow.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, let's go.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That is it from here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So for Paul Fontaine.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I am double G. We will see you when we see you piece out.