Raging Bull (1980): The Real Jake LaMotta Story | Popcorn & Piledrivers

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, everybody, welcome to Popcorn and Pile Drivers.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is a fight game media.com movie podcast as has been for the past several episodes and I think many more into the future.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Jeremy Findstone.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What's up, man?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Not much, man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It has been a whirlwind of a week, a month of summer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It felt like it was the end of May just a couple of days ago and here we are at the end of August and I just don't know what happened in the summer and spend a really good one, but man, older we get the faster these days go.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So this is one that was on my radar, raging bull, Martin Scorsese, Robert De Nero, 1980.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The reason why it was on my radar is because I avoided it as a child.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was a child of Rocky.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I liked the story of the conflict and of the hero and of the avenging deaths and avenging losses and I don't know why it may have been because my dad probably told me that, okay, this movie is not like Rocky, but I just avoided raging bull forever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And even as I got older, I had people tell me how, you know, it's kind of depressing and it's frustrating and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and so when I finally watched it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay, this is not as all of those things as people told me and I really enjoyed the story.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I also come from the background of covering and watching and being a big fan of boxing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So some of these like bad boxer stories, they probably don't affect me as much as they would affect normal people who don't follow boxing because the the the character that we're going to talk about, the human being.

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[SPEAKER_01]: of jacelimada, not a good dude, and he was very honest about him not being a good dude.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that part of it, I was like, oh yeah, there's tons of people like jacelimada and boxing that I've followed and I've had to kind of deal with with that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately, I really enjoyed it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I don't know what your history is with this movie, or with boxing movies in general, but because it is fight game media tangential, like, what was your thoughts as you were digging into this one?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really know what to expect coming into it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'd never seen Raging Bowl and, uh, as we've talked in the past, I have a film theory degree,

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[SPEAKER_00]: for a film theory guy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't love score saves, he's so.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They don't resonate with me in the way that when I hear people lovingly talk about them or analyze them, I feel like a lot of the themes are...

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[SPEAKER_00]: run concurrent along all of his movies.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There is the the dark side of the human nature kind of that exploration that he's apt to go down to.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're watching one of the earliest one here, 1980.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's one of the most courses, you know, of course, as he feels here, I've been going to see, you know, it's just like it's all of his wildest indulgences as an early, as an early guy as a director

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[SPEAKER_00]: as you're going into, as we're going into it and you're going to talk about, there's a lot of, there's a lot of personal stuff that Scorpio has wrapped around the film and you can kind of tell with it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I will, I will get the headline out of the way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: When you do a review with me, it was the movie good and did I like it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The movie was good.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really like it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get, we'll give our scores

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[SPEAKER_01]: Robert DeNiro and Marty Scorsese, good hangs or bad hangs, you think?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think they're good hang to the beginning, but the more you spend time with them, the more you realize, oh, I don't know, I think they're kind of bad hangs, like in general, like they're so focused on their art and on the things that they believe as the reason why they're alive and doing, like I've heard stories.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was a story about De Nero during the, what was the, meet the parents?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is that the one with Ben Stiller?

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's the first one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So there was a story during the pandemic of them doing it like a like a reunion thing on YouTube or something.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And supposedly, De Nero was just like no fun at all during this thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like didn't remember any of the funny or bits of the movie.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Didn't remember, and just was this like, is there to be there?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The fun record of all fun records.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, and then if you've seen any of Scorsese stuff in public, like there's a great documentary on him on Apple TV.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's not embellishing anything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's not storytelling.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, direct into the point.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And this is exactly the way we did this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And this is what I was thinking.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And all of these legends about this thing or that, like, I'm gonna give you the absolute facts.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, their geniuses at what they do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But as far as, like, you know, the legend of them, didn't sound like they're too fun.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But go ahead.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They don't.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The I watched taxi driver about a month ago.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and I think taxi driver is more of what you're talking about when it comes to score sazy doing score sazy things.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and of course in arrows is the lead in that movie as well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that movie comes at you pretty hard and you start dealing with uncomfortableness like immediately and and so some of why raging bull didn't really affect me in that way, this possibly because I saw taxi driver like right before because that movie is a little bit harder to digest, I think just on the major themes of such so

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[SPEAKER_01]: the origin story of raging bull.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is actually a very interesting story the way that this movie gets created and the idea of this movie comes from

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[SPEAKER_01]: and Robert DeNiro read the book.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So this book comes out in about 1970.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So DeNiro reads the book while he's filming Godfather II.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he's just so dialed in on the idea of playing Lamada.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he options the project and it's just like this is one of the things I'm going to do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So Scorsese in the late 70s is just he's kind of a drug addict I guess and he overdoses and he's in the hospital and

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[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, he's like trying to get over this thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like DeNero comes to him and is like Throwes the book out of like this is what we're gonna do next.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like are you going to live or are you going to die like you're gonna Clean up who we can make this noob you're what so we can make this Um, and so then Like that that is this is part of Scorsese cleaning himself up, but can you imagine?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Can you imagine

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[SPEAKER_01]: going through this drug overdose and your project that is going to get you to kind of maybe forget about taking drugs for a little bit is about Jake Lamata of all people like that like it this is not sunshine and rainbows this is a this is a crazy story.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost, I can't, I can't say that I've been through like a withdrawal flash cleanup from a major drug addiction, but I can kind of see the insanity of locking yourself into the torment of

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[SPEAKER_00]: a subject that you're going to spend 18 months filming, editing, writing, you know, doing the whole spectrum and just like a catharsis almost and I don't know how much he ended up like

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[SPEAKER_00]: going back to doing any drugs or anything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but like the story here is, you know, well documented this, he was going to bad place.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We had 78, 76 and 79 and this movie saved his life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like they've they've talked about it all of these things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But just the idea of like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: using like a movie like this as the catharsis and and the deep trauma to ignore like the cravings of hard drugs like that that's a level of of nuts that no wonder there's like this reverence for scorsese at home and you know when people go like

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a 70's like, and that's how they use it to explain like certain things like it was the 70's like this is one of those ones like it was the 70's and that's how you explain it so there were a couple script rights on it and then denier on scorsese took the Paul Schrader version who also wrote taxi driver.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they just kind of, you know, reworked it to what they wanted.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I don't think they have a script writing credit on it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think it is credited as Shrader, but they did make some edits to it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What did you think of the idea of filming it in Black and White?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was the October method.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think that you could have told the same movie in color.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The whole thing was intended to be very primal, a primal story that of this fighter struggling with animalistic urges and there were a lot of elemental nature to being in that of this movie.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think.

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[SPEAKER_00]: removing the color from it and making it as primal is a way that we translate the information that we see with our eyes and our ears and taking away all the color from it and just making it so myopic was really just designed to put color to the brutality rather than color to the film if that makes any sense.

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[SPEAKER_01]: that may very well be some of the reason.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But some of the more fundamental reasons were because boxing glove color back in the day of Jake Lamona and Sugar Ray Robinson was a little more maroon.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so the modern red gloves would look off if the film was in color.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And also, I guess there

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[SPEAKER_01]: uh... there were fading issues with uh... color stock in in the in the late seventies early eighties and and so that was another reason why why they did it but also if you think about it and i think this plays off well at the end of the movie when you do see the jaclamada and sugar ray robins and fight at the end of the last one it is actually on television so it would have been on television in black and white back then so that's a cool little little thing because his brother

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[SPEAKER_01]: his brother is watching the fight on his television and it would have been in black and white.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that was like a little cool gesture as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that any of it was because it was set in a previous time that they used the black and white that's kind of to highlight that this wasn't taking place in the modern day?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it works if that's the reason.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely worked.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think it was just a stylistic choice that worked in a number of reasons that they

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know when you make it a picture like you know the work looks you go with it and then all of a sudden all these things kind of line up for why It just kind of seemed like the style Whatever whatever the reasons may have been like it was a great choice.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, because I mean if you think about it and we'll get to this sort of rocky and raging bull You know rocky 76

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[SPEAKER_01]: rocky 279 rocky 382 so raging bulls like right in the middle like think about what those movies did and if you go into raging bull thinking you're going to get a rocky movie they're like nope like you're going to get the reverse of what you think this movie is going to be so that may have also been a reason to distinguish it that way yeah no you may very well be

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[SPEAKER_00]: It probably felt very contemporary because of the violence, it was mentioned in some of the comments here, Daza among others.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The violence ended so visceral and alarming to watch and in 1980, you didn't get that kind of violence from a whole lot of things because

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think we'll try to touch on a little bit more is like for like 67 to 80 there was 82 there was just new generation of Hollywood directors and they were just kind of taking over the way that movie were made and

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[SPEAKER_00]: We've all seen so many movies that have taken from what score saves the kind of way to path for, but this was new and trail breaking in contemporary and at the time, even though feels so very dated, we watch it now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny you said that because I just started reading a book now this book is old.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not new in any way, but it's called easy writers, raging bulls have a sex drugs and rock and roll generation saved Hollywood, and I'm fascinated by this time period.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like I remember.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, my dad would tell me about certain movies back in the day.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd go, oh, why don't I want to watch something from the 70s?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I want to watch something new, you know, I want to, that's, but and he, you know, he would talk about just different things.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And as I got older, that timeframe is just fascinating to me, more and more and more.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of the movies that I go out of my way in watch are ones that I have just missed that from that timeframe.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I do go back and I try and, um, so the gap.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, fill the gaps, but also then go back and learn about them, learn about the making of them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I also just recently finished a book that covers Lucas, Copa, and Spielberg, and, you know, because of the time, from Scorsese, he is in this book, but he's not one of the three main characters.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and you know it goes all the way from you know that time frame it talks about you know how jaws changed you know movies and and such and then that's where I got the idea that hey maybe we do raging bull because I was reading a little bit of the background on raging bull in that book and I was like man this was really fascinating time frame so that is part of the reason but yeah I'm I'm just fascinated by that time frame right now and I'm digging in.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's absolutely part of that pantheon of the young Hollywood director that reshaped everything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The movie would have done the refresher that they really kind of credited as like the launch of all this was like 1967's Bonnie and Clyde with I think fade down away and more beat.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that was like the first kind of reintroduction into a Hollywood filmmaking which violence and sets and you know like the devices were a little bit more on screen to explore the the pathos and storytelling of that and kind of opening up that pathway and so like

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[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about a guy like George Lucas who, you know, had American graffiti in a couple of those things before 77, but 77 of Luke Star Wars hit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then 81 is 881 is, you know, Empire strength that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That is right, with course A's is 976 tattooed driver and then raging bowl in 1980.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

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[SPEAKER_00]: the attention of all of these guys are all happening concurrently even though they're all introducing different types of cinema to the audiences.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's just growing the the pedigree of what people can come to appreciate in the theater as it's happening.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Robert DeNiro.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it did's a madman.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So the real actual real Jekyllamada trained him in his boxing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this feels like a tall tail to me because I understand what 1,000 rounds means, but according to Lamada, they boxed over 1,000 rounds together in preparation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And De Nero reportedly fought three amateur bouts in Brooklyn and one two of them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: uh... lemata said you know probably of course you know buttering him up he could have fought professionally

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he could have more than likely, but just the absolute dedication to the craft is insane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's say it wasn't a thousand round.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say it was 500 rounds.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That is still a ton and he's boxing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's putting his body through insane training and preparation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you watch the movie,

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[SPEAKER_01]: There are different versions of Jake Lamada and he's in different types of shape as he gets older in his career.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Early in his career, he's leaning mean, but they talk about how hard it is for him to make weight that is one of the problems with him and his brother and him and his wife in that he's like, doesn't want to have that same dedication to be, you know, 140,

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so he grows to 160 and then I think he even ends his career when he's an older man, you know, probably in like closer to the 170s.

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[SPEAKER_01]: but they had to do all of that early filming early because they rest of the movie as him is a he's got this giant pouch.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So imagine putting your body through that in this entire shooting like he's like he's a crazy man though I know, you know, Christian Bale, other actors have done it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Back now, I don't think like we all seen Christian Bale like massive body transformations.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But you forget that like De Nero is doing this in 1980 where he gained 50 pounds and they stopped building for four months.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So he could just turn into like Charlie for a problem to tell you, so don't be a completely change of body back and forth.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, there had been time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think after the movie where he was, you know, fit and trim, but I don't know if

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[SPEAKER_00]: I look at the washboard app like he was in raging bull.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know what's funny is, and I'm so glad I watched Taxi Driver before, because in Taxi Driver the Travis Bickle character

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[SPEAKER_01]: is like doing a form of weight lifting with uh... i think he's got a dumbbell and he's doing weight lifting and he's like watching his diet and all that stuff so it's kind of funny that uh... even back then you know dinner was doing that stuff for that character so the way that he gains the weight and he's got to go from one forty five to two fifteen so that he can play the old man version of of

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[SPEAKER_01]: So they shut, like you said, they shut the production down for four months and he traveled through northern Italy in France just eating.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it's all he did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That must have been the best part of the whole production.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, like, you know what?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I just got a bulk up, you know?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I just got to add the pound, not necessarily, made it just load up the car, but maybe.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, hilarious.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, Robert DeNiro plays limada, Jake Lamada, Kathy Moriarty plays Vicki Lamada, who in the film,

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[SPEAKER_01]: uh... jakel mada has another significant other who is there for uh... a little while like i don't even remember him is like fifteen minutes or something and then he's on the chase for vicky who he he really likes vicky now vicky is uh... younger than him by uh... many many years and i think the real cathy moriardi who plays vicky

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the team with the film started.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So she was 17 and he by the time filming ended and they found her because she was in a bathing suit contest at a bar and she was approached.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is funny.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She was supposedly, this is all internet stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I have to put the supposedly there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She was supposedly approached by a photographer who actually turned out to be Joe Peshie.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so then they called her about the role, and this was her acting debut, and the filmmakers wanted to like make sure that she looked a lot like the real Vicki Lamada to get the screen actors guild to okay it.

22:45.137 --> 22:51.341
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this pretty fascinating that your first ever movie role is in this movie, and then she

22:57.273 --> 23:11.841
[SPEAKER_00]: There are a number of questionable circumstances around the acquisition and hiring of Kathy Mariari as an underage girl to serve as a romantic love interest for.

23:12.805 --> 23:19.667
[SPEAKER_00]: rubber deer jakel modda in this movie and you know now Dave, there probably would be a lot more questions about whether that would be truly appropriate.

23:20.087 --> 23:27.989
[SPEAKER_00]: With that said, I do believe that she earned herself an Academy Award nomination for her role here even though she did not win it.

23:28.729 --> 23:33.670
[SPEAKER_00]: And went on to have a pretty respectable acting career.

23:33.770 --> 23:35.111
[SPEAKER_00]: So they

23:36.595 --> 23:41.279
[SPEAKER_00]: they clearly were able to see that she could act on screen and she was totally fine in the film.

23:42.120 --> 24:01.195
[SPEAKER_00]: To the point where I think she actually carried a lot of weight across from De Niro and some of these climactic scenes that really made him feel powerless, but he wanted to feel powerful, which is a hard thing to do when you have a force of nature, like Robert De Niro, commanding everything that you did.

24:01.215 --> 24:01.275
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

24:02.833 --> 24:06.816
[SPEAKER_00]: The Joe Pashy story, a little bit eyebrow-raising, but whatever.

24:06.896 --> 24:07.916
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure about that one.

24:08.076 --> 24:11.319
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right, right.

24:12.799 --> 24:17.342
[SPEAKER_00]: They struck gold, even though the gold wasn't really fully mature.

24:18.943 --> 24:29.590
[SPEAKER_01]: I see that she's in kindergarten cop, and I had to look Google a photograph of what she looked like in kindergarten cop, because I was like, I don't really remember her, but then,

24:32.963 --> 24:38.937
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was, um, I think she was,

24:40.673 --> 24:46.694
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the mom, she was the mom of of the bad guys.

24:46.814 --> 24:47.834
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember.

24:47.934 --> 24:48.355
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw that.

24:48.455 --> 24:54.376
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the teacher ended up being like the McLife of the bad guy in that movie.

24:55.456 --> 24:57.976
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the fellow teacher, Penelope and Miller in that movie.

24:58.396 --> 25:05.838
[SPEAKER_00]: So I knew that she was in there, but I kind of think that Moriarty will somehow all coattached to the the convict and

25:06.705 --> 25:12.452
[SPEAKER_00]: like the current romantic, but even though he still had a hang up about the act of life and the kid and all that stuff.

25:13.353 --> 25:16.978
[SPEAKER_00]: If I want to remember that right, but I could have a ball.

25:18.880 --> 25:20.342
[SPEAKER_01]: Joe Peshie, please, Joey Lamada.

25:21.760 --> 25:36.554
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... jigs brother and i don't think that was his real name what will go through it but i think there's uh... his he has a different real real name um... or maybe it was like a friend it wasn't really a brother and they made him a brother

25:37.495 --> 25:42.937
[SPEAKER_01]: But he hadn't done much before they brought him in.

25:42.997 --> 25:46.298
[SPEAKER_01]: DeNero spotted him in a movie from 76.

25:48.639 --> 25:54.241
[SPEAKER_01]: And another actor in this movie was in it, Frank Vincent as well.

25:55.101 --> 26:14.746
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is kind of Peshie's big break like obviously people remember him from I mean think about this this dude does good fellas and home alone and my cousin Vinny in a three year span from ninety to ninety two that isn't a commentable But he's he's my favorite part of the movie.

26:15.466 --> 26:19.067
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's the best character in the entire movie as as Joey Lamada

26:20.151 --> 26:45.418
[SPEAKER_00]: I was really surprised by Joe pension this cause I wasn't expecting to see him in it because like you were saying you've seen him in all these movies like 1992 you know then he ends up being like a little he's a weapon movies and you know he just he's got that kind of iconic role that he's cemented by the time like I'm a 10 year old and I'm seeing all these guys so I'm born in 81 and this movie comes out in 80s so I just

26:46.278 --> 26:54.961
[SPEAKER_00]: The, the overall app of me, the timing in my life to see the movie is after Joe Peshie is, you know, it's stopped at something else.

26:54.981 --> 27:03.345
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, mainly home alone, but yeah, you know, again, older, there is the good fellows and, and all and the, the continued association with, of course,

27:04.345 --> 27:05.426
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what to folks.

27:05.726 --> 27:10.669
[SPEAKER_01]: If folks remember my cousin Vinnie, he's got the line.

27:10.890 --> 27:19.375
[SPEAKER_01]: The line, the one line is when he cannot say the two youths, like he cannot make it to you.

27:19.936 --> 27:21.657
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he can't say it.

27:21.697 --> 27:28.662
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was pretty famous, you know, and then, of course, you have like Marisa Tome and stuff, and that would be too.

27:28.782 --> 27:33.045
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone, everyone in the middle of the guy from Crony can't do that movie, and then they come out of like,

27:33.445 --> 27:38.347
[SPEAKER_00]: He loves a demon like it for me, Ralph, man.

27:38.787 --> 27:39.728
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that...

27:40.708 --> 27:42.229
[SPEAKER_00]: But Joe Peshie, I think...

27:43.629 --> 27:51.113
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I had even more of an appreciation for him after watching this movie because he played the role

27:53.388 --> 28:08.587
[SPEAKER_00]: so quietly, you know, like there were scenes where he was in the background and I think after one of the law modified, he shot a bucking in the back of the locker room and he's aggressive about it, but he's

28:09.643 --> 28:14.026
[SPEAKER_00]: But you get a sense of his character, rather than Joe Pashley's taking over the entire film.

28:15.007 --> 28:35.482
[SPEAKER_00]: And he complimented every other performance in the movie when he was in it up to even like the two climax scenes with De Niro in, you know, if dining room and then at the end of the movie when Jake is trying to follow his brother and reconnect with them and he's just like,

28:38.434 --> 28:43.961
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, you know, like trying to just get him to like go away rather than actually giving them what you walked in.

28:44.882 --> 28:49.167
[SPEAKER_00]: And like we've all had those moments and he played it.

28:50.153 --> 28:58.639
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't spectacular and it wasn't over the top, but you could also just feel the trauma and pain from both people and how quietly it was played.

28:59.059 --> 29:10.547
[SPEAKER_00]: And for a movie that is predicated on the loud, violent moments, sometimes those quiet moments hit so shatteringly hard that you're not really prepared for it.

29:11.880 --> 29:18.883
[SPEAKER_01]: Salve Frank Vincent plays Salve bats who's a wise guy in this movie.

29:19.263 --> 29:28.607
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember him from the Goodfellas as Billy bats Frank Marino in casino and he was on the sopranos as well and then this was my favorite one.

29:30.788 --> 29:38.471
[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy Cuomo was played by Nicholas Colissanto who I only knew

29:39.805 --> 29:41.726
[SPEAKER_01]: as the coach from cheers.

29:42.887 --> 29:47.750
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh wow, like, he's just wearing you from, okay.

29:48.290 --> 29:54.393
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, you see somebody here is like, okay, I've seen you before, where, where, thank you.

29:55.194 --> 30:03.199
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and, you know, you think of coach and coach is an old man in cheers so much so

30:04.099 --> 30:12.724
[SPEAKER_01]: that he dies during one of the seasons of cheers, which is what, uh, got, what a hairlson to join the show.

30:13.244 --> 30:16.886
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm watching this on my, I'm like, oh, wow, coach, and then you think about it.

30:17.026 --> 30:21.328
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that long from this movie until cheers.

30:21.848 --> 30:25.250
[SPEAKER_01]: So he kind of looks very similar in in stature.

30:25.270 --> 30:27.511
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's, he's the local mob boss.

30:27.531 --> 30:30.213
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the boxing promoter and the theme of this movie.

30:31.153 --> 30:50.298
[SPEAKER_01]: and we'll go into this a little bit more is that the mob basically runs boxing like you cannot no matter how good you are and this is where this kind of relates to fight game media and pro wrestling no matter how good you are if you're not the chosen one from the boss you're not going to get the opportunities.

30:50.813 --> 31:10.567
[SPEAKER_01]: if you're not a certain you're I couldn't hear you're going to stay there whether you like it or not and the the real jacelimata had to actually throw a fight in order to get an opportunity to fight for the title and he did not throw it very well by the way, so what we'll get to that one in a second.

31:10.627 --> 31:13.490
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so those are those are those are your main characters and.

31:15.436 --> 31:21.420
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a, yeah, it's a, it's a really, really interesting cast and very well put together.

31:21.440 --> 31:23.461
[SPEAKER_01]: I think all of these folks work very well together.

31:24.382 --> 31:27.364
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk a little bit more about Jake Lamada.

31:27.384 --> 31:31.366
[SPEAKER_01]: Since that is the connection to this website and why we chose the movie.

31:33.087 --> 31:39.352
[SPEAKER_01]: Jake Lamada was known as the Bronx bull as well as the raging bull.

31:40.514 --> 31:59.596
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... as you can imagine based on this movie not the greatest childhood uh... to say the least uh... his father staged fights between himself and other neighborhood kids for entertainment with adults tossing pocket change into the makeshift ring money his father then collected toward the rent

32:01.086 --> 32:04.407
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of what Jake is dealing with as a youth.

32:05.587 --> 32:11.569
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes to a reformatory for an attempted robbery as a teenager.

32:11.910 --> 32:13.510
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where he learned how to box.

32:14.270 --> 32:22.153
[SPEAKER_01]: He was rejected for World War II service because he had some sort of operation that affected his hearing.

32:22.913 --> 32:27.275
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he went amateur and turned pro in 1941 at the age of 19.

32:28.215 --> 32:32.797
[SPEAKER_01]: And his, okay, so his, so Joey Lamata is a real guy.

32:32.817 --> 32:38.920
[SPEAKER_01]: I somehow I thought they had written Joey Lamata a little bit differently, but his older brother, Joey Lamata manages early career.

32:39.901 --> 32:44.263
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what, that's what, one of the main relationships that this movie is based on.

32:45.123 --> 32:49.465
[SPEAKER_01]: So Sugar Ray Robinson, how much do you know about Sugar Ray Robinson?

32:51.525 --> 32:59.128
[SPEAKER_00]: I know the name and I've always heard that name is one of like the preeminent, you know, boxing names.

32:59.389 --> 33:06.592
[SPEAKER_00]: I was more familiar with Sugar Ray Leonard growing up, like as one of those names, that was a dominant, uh, boxer in the 80s.

33:07.272 --> 33:12.834
[SPEAKER_00]: But I had conflated both of those when I had, no, that Sugar Ray, Rob was gonna Sugar Ray Leonard for the game.

33:12.874 --> 33:17.917
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, oh, Sugar Ray, uh, Rob was gonna do a different guy.

33:18.177 --> 33:18.457
[SPEAKER_01]: So.

33:19.138 --> 33:26.680
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I am nowhere near the knowledge of like boxing pedigree, um, we had a boxing, uh,

33:27.875 --> 33:55.078
[SPEAKER_00]: Bocking, Adolf, that you have to be on the fight game media network grand right and Robert Robert Robert yeah and so you and I would work with him and we would kind of 50 for 50 about all the box and so that became kind of like this drop in knowledge form about like I would I would take a few things away, but

33:56.879 --> 33:59.300
[SPEAKER_00]: Plus that man, he was so knowledgeable with this stuff.

33:59.340 --> 34:05.001
[SPEAKER_00]: I just picked it up because I was kind of working with some of the audio that we were doing with.

34:05.062 --> 34:09.823
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was the installment and I never been a boxing guy.

34:10.963 --> 34:26.308
[SPEAKER_00]: So all of this is the incidental knowledge that I pick up through the entirety of combat sports throughout my life and it could not, you know, I'm well versed it now, but, you know, the individual lineage of all the sponsors is not my wheelhouse.

34:27.329 --> 34:51.359
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was one of the things that was really hard for me as I was watching this movie is not being able to just send Robert Silva text because Robert Silva, he wrote tons of pieces on this on on our website, he was he did a podcast with our buddy Carlos and just somebody who I would.

34:52.557 --> 35:11.939
[SPEAKER_01]: chit chat with every now and again and whenever something happened in boxing I'd just bring them on the show and you know unfortunately he passed away a couple years ago and in in in stuff like the like the person whom like I'm like ready to text somebody and I'm not sure who I'm supposed to text and then I realize that it's Robert.

35:12.620 --> 35:35.790
[SPEAKER_01]: so like that's that still that's still something that I'm like thinking about a lot but I really wish he was here because yeah I could have had him cut a five-minute promo that we could just insert it into this show yeah about this reason this is wheelhouse it would have been it would have been awesome but the greatness of sugary Robinson because sugary Robinson is held in such

35:43.182 --> 36:09.170
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I believe it and he was portrayed as an almost unstoppable force of nature in this movie and I think there was going to a whole lot of hyperbole that they added to the person's video had in real life so they fought six times sugar ray one five of them

36:10.560 --> 36:14.630
[SPEAKER_01]: There was one, which was fight number five at Kamiski Park in Chicago.

36:15.727 --> 36:22.371
[SPEAKER_01]: where Lamada thinks that he won that fight and sugar ray himself even said it was the toughest fight between the two of them.

36:22.892 --> 36:24.793
[SPEAKER_01]: Sugar ray won by a split decision.

36:25.233 --> 36:32.138
[SPEAKER_01]: Lamada won the second one, lost the rest of them and Darren who's in the chat, Daza.

36:33.038 --> 36:41.704
[SPEAKER_01]: He said before we even did this movie, he said that there's one scene in this movie that is like one of the hardest scenes for him to

36:43.765 --> 37:03.064
[SPEAKER_01]: and i i did not ask him what that scene was and i'm watching the movie and i'm like not sure which one because there's a couple there's jaclamadas slapping his wife and punching her in the face and like knocking her out is like maybe that's the one but he said the one was in in this last fight where jaclamada

37:04.120 --> 37:05.921
[SPEAKER_01]: is pretty shot.

37:05.981 --> 37:08.902
[SPEAKER_01]: They're both, they're both beaten up all the hell.

37:10.163 --> 37:12.484
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the 13th round.

37:13.184 --> 37:17.246
[SPEAKER_01]: And Lamata is just taking so much punishment before they call it off.

37:17.867 --> 37:22.249
[SPEAKER_01]: But the whole thing for Lamata was that he just did not want to go down.

37:22.449 --> 37:23.949
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, even in the movie,

37:25.390 --> 37:29.651
[SPEAKER_01]: Dineros character goes over to sugary Robinson and says, you didn't get me down.

37:29.691 --> 37:30.551
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't get me down.

37:31.011 --> 37:33.691
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was because he stood up, and he took all that punishment.

37:33.711 --> 37:34.612
[SPEAKER_01]: He stayed on his feet.

37:35.512 --> 37:40.293
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so that was their historic arrival.

37:40.333 --> 37:51.135
[SPEAKER_00]: There weren't for that, you know, they're a freak for that, by the way, it's called Pyrrhic Victory, where you claim victory despite the overwhelming and substantial walks that you

37:53.995 --> 37:58.601
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, superiority and it's just like, no, you didn't get much out of that one.

38:00.203 --> 38:06.250
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mentioned earlier that he had to throw a fight in order to give his title shot.

38:07.352 --> 38:09.554
[SPEAKER_01]: So by 1947, Lamada was kind of an uncrowned champ.

38:13.949 --> 38:28.340
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of the title shots ran through guys like Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo because they controlled all of the titles, they controlled all the championship fights.

38:29.278 --> 38:40.706
[SPEAKER_01]: So in November, 47, Lamada goes into the ring with Billy Fox and is knocked out in the fourth round in a performance that people immediately were suspicious of.

38:41.486 --> 38:49.191
[SPEAKER_01]: And so Jake Lamada was quoted as saying, the first round, a couple of belts to his head, and I see a glassy look coming over his eyes.

38:49.711 --> 38:54.675
[SPEAKER_01]: By the fourth round, if there was anybody in the garden who didn't know what was happening, he must have been dead drunk.

38:55.235 --> 39:05.146
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was supposed to make the fight look competitive, but he landed a shot early on that days that the guy who was supposed to win.

39:05.666 --> 39:11.653
[SPEAKER_01]: So in order to make it happen the way that it was supposed to happen, which was Billy Fox winning, he just decided to, uh,

39:14.155 --> 39:15.736
[SPEAKER_01]: fake fight and it looked fake.

39:16.376 --> 39:30.383
[SPEAKER_01]: So he later admitted he through the fight and but he did get his title shot at the middleweight title out of it and and he didn't he wouldn't have he didn't actually admit it until many many years later.

39:31.966 --> 39:48.238
[SPEAKER_01]: So in this world, middleweight championship fight, Lamada beat French champion Marcel Serdane, dropped him in the first round, Serdane dislocated his shoulder on the way down and it was fighting in pain and he didn't answer the bell for round 10.

39:48.338 --> 39:52.201
[SPEAKER_01]: So Lamada was the champion by technical knockout.

39:53.522 --> 39:55.904
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he's finally got his wish.

39:56.545 --> 39:57.825
[SPEAKER_01]: He defended the title twice

40:01.508 --> 40:19.365
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... he lost the title against sugar rate robbers in February 14th nineteen fifty one the saint valentine today massacre and uh... and yet so so that so that the quote is you didn't get me down ray when he was just standing up you didn't get me down

40:20.290 --> 40:31.657
[SPEAKER_01]: So from 51 to 54, he's on on the decline, moves up to light heavyweight, losing two guys that he probably wouldn't have lost to in his in his prime.

40:33.078 --> 40:43.265
[SPEAKER_01]: And he actually went down only for the only time in his career outside of the throne fight against Danny Nardico Nardico.

40:46.591 --> 40:58.120
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was kind of his calling card was that nobody could knock him down so finally he gets knocked down and I think that was one of the reasons where he's like, okay, I just I really don't have it anymore and his after career.

40:59.661 --> 41:24.666
[SPEAKER_01]: at which they showed in the movie was the last third of the movie about maybe a little bit less than a third but but the last act of the movie was him as a nightclub owner and he gets arrested because there's a younger women who come to the club and they they don't really have to let's say prove too hard to him that they were of age and uh...

41:25.246 --> 41:27.827
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that verification method was a good idea

41:28.147 --> 41:31.108
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he just kind of looked at him and was he's like.

41:33.069 --> 41:46.916
[SPEAKER_01]: It's show me how you kiss and if I think you kiss like a woman, then you're a woman like that that's how it happened and we I don't know if that was true or not in in the actual thing I think there there was other parts of he just like they just looked of age.

41:48.116 --> 41:55.418
[SPEAKER_01]: So, he's then arrested and he's convicted and served six months on the Florida chain gang.

41:56.038 --> 41:59.579
[SPEAKER_01]: Though he maintained his innocence saying that he just, he did not do that purposely.

42:00.399 --> 42:07.080
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was then when he was in testimony that he had to confirm under oath that he did

42:16.222 --> 42:19.865
[SPEAKER_01]: and he's banging his head against the wall.

42:21.386 --> 42:39.358
[SPEAKER_01]: And I believe it was in the Scorsese doc where I think they wanted him to maybe punch the wall and it was De Nero's idea to bang his head against the wall instead to make it more like a you know, I can't believe that this happened to me.

42:39.438 --> 42:44.861
[SPEAKER_01]: There's more like a mental air than like a physical air I think was the idea so that that was what that scene was.

42:48.387 --> 43:08.380
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that was more like that other than just like him trying to convince himself that he wasn't going to fuck up, you know, like just like he had made every wrong decision using every wrong instinct up to that point and then he was trying to convince himself that, you know,

43:09.313 --> 43:15.195
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't as bad of a person as he was when every decision that he had made was the wrong decision.

43:17.136 --> 43:22.738
[SPEAKER_01]: So this dude, the real life jacelimada with the craziness of his life he lived until he was 90.

43:24.322 --> 43:30.166
[SPEAKER_01]: July 2012 was when he finally passed and he was in television roles.

43:30.226 --> 43:31.987
[SPEAKER_01]: He was he did some movie stuff.

43:33.368 --> 43:39.372
[SPEAKER_01]: He sponsored a Bronx amateur baseball team called the Jekyll amount of all stars as he was a lifelong baseball fan.

43:40.673 --> 43:42.114
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, married seven times.

43:43.397 --> 43:57.752
[SPEAKER_01]: He was very open in his memoir about all the failures, domestic violence, assault, that nearly killed someone when he was younger, he admitted to rape when he was younger.

43:57.772 --> 44:05.099
[SPEAKER_01]: And he even said that he was obsessed, you know, for whatever reason he was obsessed, just obsessed with Vicki.

44:06.466 --> 44:28.755
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... lamada was ranked among ring magazines greatest middle-its of all time inducted to the international boxing hall of fame in nineteen ninety and lived in my amy and arizona once the florida rainy season came he would stay out in arizona and uh... it looks like a twenty eleven sequel

44:30.391 --> 44:36.856
[SPEAKER_01]: project stalled out when MGM sued to block it arguing that Lamada had no right to make a follow-up to their film.

44:36.976 --> 44:38.577
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea what this was.

44:38.597 --> 44:44.542
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess it turned it became the Bronx bull with William Forsight as Jake Lamada.

44:44.582 --> 44:46.123
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never seen this movie.

44:46.163 --> 44:47.304
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never heard of this movie.

44:47.884 --> 44:51.267
[SPEAKER_00]: So even though anything like that even they've gifted you know like

44:53.350 --> 45:02.182
[SPEAKER_00]: Wemada by the time he died with what, at 95 years old, like, just wild, wild, like, like, Yomu.

45:03.125 --> 45:12.354
[SPEAKER_00]: At that point, you've lived a life and then you have enough time to regret whatever wife you've lived and just do whatever you want with it and who knows?

45:12.454 --> 45:21.863
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he may have just wanted to live off of, you know, I've just done a apologetically living the life that I am, but you know, it's not like he ever really gave up.

45:22.083 --> 45:24.185
[SPEAKER_00]: He just he just died at 95.

45:27.067 --> 45:47.847
[SPEAKER_01]: whatever his life was is whatever his life was and I'm sure the biography or the memoir was a little bit of a cleansing thing of stuff that he just you know he knows that he was not I mean he he he would say that he's not a good person when he was younger I don't know what his life like was from say retirement right it's too 90 I don't know if

45:48.728 --> 45:52.493
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, he rewrite it a lot of those wrongs, but he got married a bunch of times as well.

45:52.593 --> 46:04.009
[SPEAKER_00]: So there there go a lot of time for reflection if you so choose, but there are a lot of people that even if you get older, you choose not to reflect on anything and you don't reflect.

46:04.089 --> 46:04.830
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you don't learn.

46:06.068 --> 46:23.079
[SPEAKER_01]: So the box office, the budget was 18 million domestic box office 23.4 theatrical rentals 10.1 million premiered on November 14th, 1980, US wide release December 19th, 1980,

46:25.738 --> 46:37.622
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of a commercial disappointment, but also one that kind of one in the end because of what people remember about this movie and about the performances in the movie.

46:38.582 --> 46:52.007
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you go back to 1980 and you're on the, you know, you see Rocky and all the boxoffs that Rocky's doing, you probably feel like, you know, United Arts probably thinks like, oh, you know, maybe there's just a

46:53.717 --> 47:10.923
[SPEAKER_01]: a wanting of boxing films and of of these kind of and they're in the fans like nope like not this kind this is a little bit a little bit rougher than than what we know rocky to be so yet did not do great in a box office you know god you you say that right but

47:12.290 --> 47:21.537
[SPEAKER_00]: The lack of commercial success for it to be a staggering out-of-the-gate positive story.

47:22.057 --> 47:31.184
[SPEAKER_00]: But life, the fact that 31-year later, MGM was suing somebody to stop for making you sequel because of the popularity and the longevity of this film.

47:31.244 --> 47:36.408
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the lore, the lore, the idea that, oh, it turns out that this is one of the most

47:41.652 --> 47:57.722
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it, if you're doing it,

47:58.420 --> 48:10.042
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if it does not do well, that first week, that first month, that first six months, like it's torn with this reputation of like, this is a bad film and audience is rejected it.

48:10.522 --> 48:19.944
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet there are so many films that find a second or a third life in streaming or in the after market where it's all the same.

48:20.484 --> 48:22.944
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, this is a true gem.

48:23.364 --> 48:25.745
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right now going through like a 4K

48:27.265 --> 48:46.717
[SPEAKER_00]: blue ray red of songs where you're just you're you're finding the physical media and going down the rabbit holes and you're finding them that I imagine that you were told at one time or another this was not good and you're watching you know like no I really like this you know and I think raging bull probably suffered from

48:49.823 --> 49:07.184
[SPEAKER_00]: In a ability to comprehend the violence and the matter that was being put forth to the audience at the time, and over time, it was more accepted as more of that kind of content was being consumed by an audience in the 80s who were really more open to it.

49:08.670 --> 49:24.637
[SPEAKER_00]: And now it's considered one of these touchstone films that so many other reference and you know, you have clips and quotes and you know, it quote in other movies, you know, the iconic and contender is the Marlon Brando speech from on the waterfront.

49:25.217 --> 49:32.241
[SPEAKER_00]: They're all these things with it and it's always funny to me like the way that some of these movies are framed back in the day and then try to have it.

49:32.321 --> 49:35.162
[SPEAKER_00]: No, actually it was pretty expensive, so that's what you look at it.

49:35.602 --> 49:43.924
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the box office may not have been what they wanted, but, you know, here we are, 40 some odd years later.

49:43.944 --> 49:50.666
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, everyone knows what this movie is when you say the name of the movie.

49:52.027 --> 49:53.207
[SPEAKER_01]: A little bit of trivia here.

49:54.523 --> 50:00.627
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, the version that I bought of this movie was the Criterion collection, so it's like the souped up version.

50:01.988 --> 50:10.354
[SPEAKER_01]: And it came with like a 46 page booklet, like there's a couple of essays in this thing that I did not get to read before we started recording.

50:10.854 --> 50:13.035
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's lots of, you know, features and stuff.

50:13.076 --> 50:16.878
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a documentary of the making on it.

50:16.898 --> 50:22.062
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's like some real life media around the, you know, when it when it came out and stuff.

50:22.102 --> 50:23.683
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's it's a really good

50:24.303 --> 50:28.168
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really good buy for if you are interested in buying it.

50:28.749 --> 50:37.480
[SPEAKER_00]: I will tell you I have one criterion collection disc collection in my physical media and it is from like 2006.

50:39.442 --> 50:45.027
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a criterion collection DVD of all the Beastie Boy's music videos.

50:45.387 --> 50:46.428
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's amazing.

50:46.789 --> 50:48.570
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love this thing.

50:48.690 --> 50:56.797
[SPEAKER_00]: It just, it's all the music videos and they got commentary and, you know, now with the Beastie Boy's gone, you know, because you're not going to get that kind of stuff.

50:56.817 --> 50:59.560
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't even, they don't ever really revisit that kind of thing.

50:59.640 --> 51:02.122
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's a time capsule, man.

51:02.222 --> 51:03.483
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm, I'm glad I have it.

51:04.682 --> 51:11.888
[SPEAKER_01]: I just did a 50 for 50, which is my music podcast where we're going over 50 albums for 50 years and we did a BC Boys episode.

51:13.473 --> 51:16.434
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of the same thing with the BC boys for me.

51:17.394 --> 51:20.294
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really get into them until I was much older.

51:20.375 --> 51:25.276
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really see them as like hip hop in a sense, and I don't know if they they were in the culture.

51:25.296 --> 51:27.076
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they would consider their style.

51:28.496 --> 51:35.998
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not the sort of the greatest MCs in the world, but they made some really great songs and great albums, and so I go back.

51:36.758 --> 51:38.218
[SPEAKER_01]: And I started listening to all this stuff.

51:39.298 --> 51:42.479
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh my gosh, I missed the genius of all of it.

51:43.259 --> 51:47.520
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when Yauke dies, right?

51:48.400 --> 51:50.880
[SPEAKER_01]: And you see all the good things that he was doing.

51:51.141 --> 51:55.521
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, oh my gosh, I wish I would have locked in on them.

51:55.541 --> 51:59.222
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, appreciation factor while they were all still around.

51:59.282 --> 52:00.242
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't quite happen.

52:00.282 --> 52:03.643
[SPEAKER_00]: Now like when all the stuff's going to be like, oh, yeah,

52:05.496 --> 52:24.591
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was one of my favorite episodes that we that we did because I was just able to go back through all of the album and listen to them all and yeah, they're so different, you know, you could tell what they were experimenting with, you know, they're their own stories of like how they made the the songs and stuff for amazing.

52:24.631 --> 52:28.474
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, BC boys are just just dope dudes.

52:28.634 --> 52:29.775
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

52:34.140 --> 52:35.420
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I have it on vinyl actually.

52:35.940 --> 52:38.801
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so the Some trivia here.

52:39.281 --> 52:39.461
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

52:39.621 --> 52:42.302
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the original titles, prize fighter.

52:43.282 --> 52:46.142
[SPEAKER_01]: Scorsese liked that title better than raging bull.

52:46.622 --> 52:48.843
[SPEAKER_01]: Not a better title, but he was worried.

52:48.883 --> 52:55.444
[SPEAKER_01]: It would make audience think the film was only about boxing because Scorsese himself was not fan of boxing.

52:55.464 --> 52:57.544
[SPEAKER_01]: He had to get talked into making this movie.

52:57.644 --> 53:00.205
[SPEAKER_01]: He would never have made a boxing movie himself.

53:02.270 --> 53:27.897
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, the 53rd Academy Awards were De Niro Wins, best actor was postponed a day after John Hinkley Jr. shot President Ronald Reagan in an attempt to impress actress Jodie Foster, which stems from his fascination with her from taxi driver and

53:31.052 --> 53:33.993
[SPEAKER_01]: Travis Bickle's character in Taxi Driver.

53:34.013 --> 53:34.593
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey.

53:35.333 --> 53:43.254
[SPEAKER_01]: Attempts to assassinate the political figure in that movie, but does not actually, is not actually successful.

53:44.335 --> 53:47.115
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's insanity right there.

53:47.415 --> 53:56.777
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they use that control of an example to demonize like being influenced by any type of media that was of,

53:58.237 --> 54:25.705
[SPEAKER_00]: different reputable florches for years, you know, like we would get we we still get video game We need to be legislated kind of thing and I really just it just comes down to like Parents need to parent their children And it's so much harder than I never will absolutely with so the kids have so many things the thing get their hands on these days Yeah, I mean we're having like now the legislation is trying to make sure that

54:27.056 --> 54:33.144
[SPEAKER_00]: not too much band stuff with being kept out of like their reach on the internet, which is probably about time for that.

54:33.565 --> 54:33.845
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

54:35.844 --> 54:40.127
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the, let's see what else we have here.

54:40.167 --> 54:53.475
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Library of Congress selected Raging Bull for the National Film Registry as culturally historically or aesthetically significant, one of the relatively few films from the 80s picked in the registries earlier, earlier years.

54:55.517 --> 55:04.262
[SPEAKER_01]: And as far as favorite scenes or favorite lines, do you have anything that stands out in your memory

55:07.847 --> 55:11.648
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the opening credits really

55:13.348 --> 55:16.150
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of made me prepared for what I was about to watch.

55:16.650 --> 55:30.898
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like they had they had the shadow boxing of De Niro's Amana around the ring is the credits we're going with, you know, kind of that smoke kind of outline and with the lights and all that stuff.

55:30.958 --> 55:39.743
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we watch the wrestling and we watch these matches and we've seen like the NNT where they draw the lights so we'll be the light in the ring.

55:39.783 --> 55:41.404
[SPEAKER_00]: So you've seen that aesthetic before

55:44.210 --> 55:55.182
[SPEAKER_00]: you're literally watching the sky chase something that he can't catch in the beginning in the credit as he's fighting his own shadow kind of thing.

55:56.924 --> 56:02.450
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think more than anything else, that kind of rep me for the kind of movie that I was about to watch.

56:04.530 --> 56:11.182
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the violence in the movie didn't quite hit, because I've been so decentralized by violence over the years.

56:12.184 --> 56:14.188
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do agree with Dad so that the,

56:15.910 --> 56:24.593
[SPEAKER_00]: that the watermelon pulp style destruction of De Niro's face and that last fight and the flood hanging off of the ropes.

56:24.933 --> 56:26.293
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

56:26.653 --> 56:34.895
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that actual physical disagreement kind of carrying with De Niro and the prosthesis through the end of the film.

56:35.656 --> 56:42.898
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I thought that was really powerful and we don't as an audience or at least I

56:44.432 --> 57:03.634
[SPEAKER_00]: of viewer, a boxing in MMA, like, I truly forget that, you know, like, I'll get to Puri at the White House, like, yeah, White House with just engaged to you, I ended up watching that match, like, he still looked like he went through the meet grinder two month later from that fight.

57:03.654 --> 57:03.955
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like,

57:05.513 --> 57:29.293
[SPEAKER_00]: the punchers and the kit that we inflict on each other physical violence like unchecked can do so much damage and it's just watching that vicaral punishment on screen is in gun plush and in a gun comfortable on each should make you uncomfortable it should make it should make you feel like no like there's a real pain in a caulk to all of the

57:30.756 --> 57:43.202
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the two lines that are almost haunting in in my brain, as I think about this, so again, that fight that you're talking about, where.

57:45.727 --> 58:11.986
[SPEAKER_01]: he wouldn't go down right he's just what he wouldn't go down sugar ace throwing everything at him there's even a shot that I wonder if Stallone kind of stole from where it's not the background is not the crowd that is watching this fight they kind of blur out they blackout the background so that you know this is like something that is different and he comes down and he hits one more time

58:12.926 --> 58:17.850
[SPEAKER_01]: And De Nero just saying, you didn't get me down, Ray, you didn't get me down.

58:18.310 --> 58:26.275
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was insane to me, just like the idea that that would be the thing that kept him going.

58:26.295 --> 58:36.302
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just the fact of like, I may just get destroyed in this ring and be the worst for the wear, but I don't want to go down and that's the big thing.

58:42.706 --> 58:44.906
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, um, I'm finding the quote here.

58:45.587 --> 58:52.729
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so there, there's a relationship with Vicki his wife and Joey the brother.

58:53.730 --> 58:58.872
[SPEAKER_01]: And Joey, I don't know if Joey had a, I'm talking with the character in the movie.

58:58.892 --> 59:00.893
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about the real life relationship.

59:01.513 --> 59:09.136
[SPEAKER_01]: The character in the movie, there seemed to be a little bit of like a crush because she's a younger, attractive woman.

59:10.107 --> 59:17.593
[SPEAKER_01]: And the way that Jake gets to Vicki is through Joey, because Joey kind of knows her.

59:18.094 --> 59:24.339
[SPEAKER_01]: Joey runs around with the wise guys a little bit as part of his job as the manager.

59:24.919 --> 59:31.144
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he knows who this Vicki is before Jake can actually really get to know her.

59:31.164 --> 59:36.268
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he uses Joey to get her to come over and say hi and such.

59:36.628 --> 59:37.849
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a moment in the movie,

59:38.610 --> 59:51.635
[SPEAKER_01]: where he beats up, where Joey starts fighting with one of the wise guys because he thinks that guy is taking a shot or he's getting a little too close to Vicki.

59:52.015 --> 59:55.696
[SPEAKER_01]: And the movie, the movie doesn't decide for you.

59:55.716 --> 59:57.817
[SPEAKER_01]: You're given kind of road A or road B.

59:58.717 --> 01:00:06.941
[SPEAKER_01]: is Joe did Joey stick up for her because that was his brother's wife or did Joey stick up for her because he cared a lot about her too.

01:00:07.041 --> 01:00:15.766
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's this like there's this fork in the road on the decision and how the audience is supposed to feel which then you get to later in the movie

01:00:16.706 --> 01:00:39.835
[SPEAKER_01]: where Vicki comes home and he is he is the obsessed husband where have you been what have you been doing where did you go he he wants to know who she talked to and what she did and so as it turns out she she bales and he turns to his brother Joey and he just asks him I don't know how many times

01:00:44.277 --> 01:00:51.523
[SPEAKER_01]: And Joe is like, come on, why, how could you ask me that kind of, he doesn't actually say, no, he just, he's just like, a Paul that this could be asked.

01:00:51.624 --> 01:01:10.040
[SPEAKER_01]: So as it turns out, uh, the, uh, Jake and Vicki have this argument in the street, then Jake goes to Joe's house and just tackles him as he's eating dinner and this starts this giant fight, Vicki.

01:01:10.080 --> 01:01:11.561
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a fight in ad kicking.

01:01:12.366 --> 01:01:18.468
[SPEAKER_01]: Vicki come, I mean, yeah, you're, your brother's a, and a literal heavyweight, I mean, a literal professional boxer.

01:01:18.928 --> 01:01:23.989
[SPEAKER_01]: Vicki jumps on Jekyll modest back and he turns around and punches her right in the face.

01:01:24.910 --> 01:01:31.051
[SPEAKER_01]: And that all starts off of this question of, did you F my wife, was she asked him about 15 times like that thing?

01:01:32.392 --> 01:01:36.213
[SPEAKER_01]: That's probably the scene that gives me nightmares almost that if anything.

01:01:36.233 --> 01:01:40.854
[SPEAKER_00]: That was, it was probably the most horrifying scene for me personally too, because it was just like,

01:01:42.435 --> 01:02:05.536
[SPEAKER_00]: You just, you watch it like, if you are the person across, right, someone like Jacob Mata, and no matter what you say, the only answer they want to hear is the one that they believe is the correct one and anything other than that, it just, you don't think you have to give one answer and it's the answer, whether it's true or not, you don't want to give, because it's simply confirming what they believe whether it's true or not.

01:02:05.876 --> 01:02:07.557
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was,

01:02:08.585 --> 01:02:19.155
[SPEAKER_00]: deeply unsettling and it was more than any other scene in the film, the one that defined the rest of his life and his relationship with everybody.

01:02:19.275 --> 01:02:28.044
[SPEAKER_00]: He never recovered from any of the relationship based off of putting his brother through plate glass in his living room.

01:02:29.665 --> 01:02:30.606
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

01:02:31.875 --> 01:02:34.255
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, more awards for this movie.

01:02:34.275 --> 01:02:46.197
[SPEAKER_01]: So D'Aro won Best Actor, Best Film Editing, and also won, and it was nominated for Best Picture, and five others, but only won for actor netting.

01:02:48.338 --> 01:02:52.879
[SPEAKER_01]: And it opened the 1981 Berlin International Film Festival.

01:02:53.759 --> 01:03:00.280
[SPEAKER_01]: Roger Ebert named it the single Best Film of the 1980s and one of the greatest ever made.

01:03:01.425 --> 01:03:04.267
[SPEAKER_01]: High praise.

01:03:04.388 --> 01:03:11.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and in 2012, the motion pictures editors Guild named it the best edited film of all time.

01:03:13.315 --> 01:03:14.496
[SPEAKER_01]: So now my favorite section.

01:03:15.556 --> 01:03:16.197
[SPEAKER_01]: Rocky vs.

01:03:16.257 --> 01:03:16.777
[SPEAKER_01]: Raging Bull.

01:03:18.819 --> 01:03:26.225
[SPEAKER_01]: And I watched this through the lens of Did they influence each other?

01:03:27.313 --> 01:03:40.637
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there are scenes in this movie that would later influence a rocky scene in how do you shoot the scene that tells the audience in advance?

01:03:41.497 --> 01:03:45.538
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not going to be good for your favorite character here.

01:03:45.978 --> 01:03:53.240
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mentioned Sugar Ray Robinson, they blacked out the crowd in the back and he's raining down for like that one final punch.

01:03:54.140 --> 01:04:11.901
[SPEAKER_01]: and they did that in rocky three with a club or lying though i think it was more slow motion rather than like really actually darkening the audience but in creed three which is which has nothing to service to slow them by the way Michael B. Jordan directed creed three

01:04:12.922 --> 01:04:25.985
[SPEAKER_01]: Almost the entire, I think it's an entire round in the main fight scene of Creed III is done sort of like anime style, like it's like this really weird thing.

01:04:26.085 --> 01:04:33.567
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I, I didn't really like it that much, but it was another thing of like, okay, here's the round that we want all of you to pay attention to so much so.

01:04:34.267 --> 01:04:38.308
[SPEAKER_01]: We're losing the crowd and we're blackening the entire audience.

01:04:38.408 --> 01:04:39.188
[SPEAKER_01]: So pay attention.

01:04:39.608 --> 01:04:45.829
[SPEAKER_01]: So Martin Scorsese does that in the final Lamada and Sugar Ray fight.

01:04:47.190 --> 01:04:53.931
[SPEAKER_01]: So the actual tie between these two franchise or between Raging Bull and the Rocky franchise.

01:04:54.671 --> 01:04:59.312
[SPEAKER_01]: So producers, Irwin Winkler and Robert Chardoff

01:05:00.192 --> 01:05:06.876
[SPEAKER_01]: they made rocky, um, and also were the ones trying to get regime bull off the ground.

01:05:07.876 --> 01:05:12.479
[SPEAKER_01]: So United Arts, they didn't want another boxing project.

01:05:12.679 --> 01:05:25.607
[SPEAKER_01]: They did not like the idea of J. Lamada for the same reason why rocky works because they wanted like this charismatic sympathetic character and wingler asked De Nero directly.

01:05:25.827 --> 01:05:27.708
[SPEAKER_01]: Why would you want to play this cockroach?

01:05:30.887 --> 01:05:44.939
[SPEAKER_01]: So the producers went over the heads of the United R to CEO, went over the heads to the United R to CEO and said, and this is quote, Irvin, Irvin Winkler.

01:05:45.940 --> 01:05:50.383
[SPEAKER_01]: We made it clear to Albeck that there would be no rocky two if there was no raging bull.

01:05:50.623 --> 01:05:51.544
[SPEAKER_01]: We were serious.

01:05:51.684 --> 01:05:52.685
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not a bluff.

01:05:53.205 --> 01:05:59.870
[SPEAKER_01]: So they dangled rocky two out there saying, we need to make this movie for this other one to be made.

01:06:00.590 --> 01:06:04.353
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, uh, and so it worked, right?

01:06:04.713 --> 01:06:07.435
[SPEAKER_00]: So they got the heavyweight we're fighting on that day.

01:06:07.935 --> 01:06:31.568
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so it but the UA didn't only lock in Rocky 2, but everything that came after it so they I think they got their money's worth by just making raging bull by just a grain to make the movie that the otor wanted to make yeah So you know a little bit of tying things together here so Rocky wins Beck's best picture in the 77 Oscars

01:06:33.701 --> 01:06:37.023
[SPEAKER_01]: A 77 Oscars, which included Taxi Driver.

01:06:38.084 --> 01:06:40.065
[SPEAKER_01]: So, very interesting there.

01:06:41.226 --> 01:06:49.612
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, you know, we've already talked a lot about the book versus the film versus the real record of facts and everything.

01:06:52.133 --> 01:06:57.257
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I guess the only thing that is kind of, maybe something to bring up here is,

01:06:57.897 --> 01:07:09.808
[SPEAKER_01]: So the film story ends in 64 with Lamada doing stand up in a rundown club, and they don't really talk about the rest of his life, and like we said, he lived 53 years longer than that time frame.

01:07:09.828 --> 01:07:16.474
[SPEAKER_01]: So, otherwise, you know, it's pretty pretty decent portrayal of who Jake Lamada was.

01:07:17.815 --> 01:07:19.577
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this is this is for fun here.

01:07:19.617 --> 01:07:21.479
[SPEAKER_01]: Now go ahead and I'll go to the last part.

01:07:22.098 --> 01:07:31.655
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I just, I think, for trying to capture a specific period of this man's life and, you know, an unvarnished

01:07:33.027 --> 01:07:38.130
[SPEAKER_00]: interpretation that it's probably more honest and not, you know, kind of respect.

01:07:38.150 --> 01:07:46.994
[SPEAKER_00]: All parties involved for putting for something and even jakele them on it never really to my understanding argue that the film made him look bad.

01:07:47.514 --> 01:07:47.994
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

01:07:48.014 --> 01:07:53.357
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think I think he was just like, yeah, that's that's just who I was back then.

01:07:53.397 --> 01:07:54.918
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was not a good person.

01:07:55.407 --> 01:08:16.876
[SPEAKER_00]: I think like right now, there's a movie coming out with where they're doing like the Tequetra Predator with Chris Hansen, they're doing like a movie of it and Chris Hansen is basically buying out movie airtime before the movie air is just a kind of counterpoint before the movie co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-co-

01:08:18.950 --> 01:08:25.793
[SPEAKER_00]: It just feels like you're you're trying really hard to to fight a narrative that you lost years ago.

01:08:26.434 --> 01:08:35.638
[SPEAKER_01]: I just Tony, which is the A24 movie of the biopic of Anthony Bourdain.

01:08:37.579 --> 01:08:38.319
[SPEAKER_01]: Really well done.

01:08:38.999 --> 01:08:39.620
[SPEAKER_01]: Really well done.

01:08:40.020 --> 01:08:40.840
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed it a lot.

01:08:41.381 --> 01:08:46.643
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm going to want to check out I enjoyed it to be Bourdain when he was around and said that he's no longer.

01:08:47.294 --> 01:08:53.105
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess there's a documentary on HBO Max from 2021 that I'm gonna watch pretty soon.

01:08:53.125 --> 01:08:53.907
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was a good one.

01:08:53.947 --> 01:08:58.135
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember watching that, it's all on a thing complex.

01:08:59.913 --> 01:09:12.756
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, let's do our section here where we talk about who in MMA or boxing or wrestling could play a character in this movie.

01:09:13.216 --> 01:09:15.097
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought long and hard about Lamada.

01:09:15.117 --> 01:09:20.678
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's anybody in current boxing who I think could play Lamada necessarily.

01:09:30.601 --> 01:09:39.316
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have someone from Lamada, but when I was watching this movie, I felt like I would remind it of Connor McGregor overlaunch.

01:09:40.292 --> 01:09:44.936
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, just kind of like, I'm, I need to like, I can't move on like a no good person.

01:09:45.396 --> 01:09:48.098
[SPEAKER_00]: He would number one, yeah, like a no good person.

01:09:48.759 --> 01:10:05.491
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's also, there's like this overwhelming desire to prove that he was the best in his prime and get all those opportunities and then the kind of when he's no longer and he's devolving

01:10:06.872 --> 01:10:34.539
[SPEAKER_00]: The personality side of it just is incredibly unappealing and that's a generous way of putting it And I feel like there's a lot of parallels to like the post-career of La Mata with with McGregor And I don't think he could act he kidnapped his way out of the paper bag and the roadhouse movie So like we know what that what that call gonna be like and I don't necessarily think that there is like a box or MMA guy

01:10:36.459 --> 01:10:44.085
[SPEAKER_00]: What was being conveyed about the personality, the mindset, there was a lot that kind of reminded me of comic records.

01:10:44.866 --> 01:10:48.489
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of a Gregor also kind of a jealous obsessed human.

01:10:48.509 --> 01:10:49.269
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, as well.

01:10:49.389 --> 01:10:49.750
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:51.761
[SPEAKER_01]: So sugary Robinson.

01:10:51.841 --> 01:10:58.967
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you want to talk about, you know, who might be the best boxer to play that role, you could talk about someone like Terrence Crawford.

01:10:59.147 --> 01:11:07.314
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that Terrence Crawford really looks like him like the, you know, sugary Leonard who took the namesake a little old these days.

01:11:08.515 --> 01:11:11.218
[SPEAKER_01]: The one that I liked was Joey Lamada.

01:11:12.298 --> 01:11:14.319
[SPEAKER_01]: who could play Joey Lamata?

01:11:14.999 --> 01:11:35.688
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this would be a younger version of this person, but I would have some fun with Paul Hayman being a Joey Lamata whose job is to basically work with the wise guys to make sure that his brother is kind of working in this game of boxing.

01:11:37.049 --> 01:11:54.458
[SPEAKER_01]: Paul hit now, Paul Hamid doesn't look anything like these guys, but just the idea of like somebody with that street sense, somebody with, you know, the kind of that, the camera really likes them, got an interesting sounding voice kind of like Joe Pesci, so that was one that I liked.

01:11:56.299 --> 01:11:58.820
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other one, I'll give you the other one and then you can go.

01:12:00.145 --> 01:12:25.013
[SPEAKER_01]: So Tommy Komo played by the guy who who played coach in cheers, the man who controls the title shots, so there are boxing personalities that are kind of like this, though today's boxing is so splintered that I don't think that there is one single person, but there is

01:12:29.935 --> 01:12:52.868
[SPEAKER_01]: And he is actually a version of Tommy Komo because if you understand the business of the UFC, it is exactly what these mobsters were doing with boxing because Dana White and his company and his team control who gets what and who can face who and anybody not connected with the UFC cannot face any of these champions.

01:12:53.408 --> 01:12:54.509
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is really

01:12:55.545 --> 01:13:10.749
[SPEAKER_01]: where boxing is right now with the with this revised alieact, what TKO wants is they want boxing to resemble the UFC, which resembles boxing from the time frame that jacelomato was fighting.

01:13:13.009 --> 01:13:13.689
[SPEAKER_00]: Tommy Como.

01:13:14.229 --> 01:13:14.950
[SPEAKER_00]: Don callous.

01:13:15.670 --> 01:13:16.370
[UNKNOWN]: That's hilarious.

01:13:26.707 --> 01:13:27.428
[SPEAKER_01]: That's hilarious.

01:13:28.068 --> 01:13:30.810
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, let's see any of the other guys.

01:13:31.731 --> 01:13:37.955
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, because of Vicki's blonde hair, I was thinking of who's got blonde hair and wrestling.

01:13:38.015 --> 01:13:41.398
[SPEAKER_01]: In WWE, there's way more of that.

01:13:41.518 --> 01:13:43.559
[SPEAKER_01]: Those kind of tall, statuous blondes.

01:13:44.380 --> 01:13:50.344
[SPEAKER_00]: She kind of, she kind of, Trisha Strattis around that Chris Jen and Chris Jericho kind of.

01:13:51.305 --> 01:13:51.846
[SPEAKER_00]: era.

01:13:52.026 --> 01:14:01.354
[SPEAKER_01]: I got that Tony storm too, but Tony storm is kind of like really small and I think Vicki was like Vicki because Jake Lamott himself wasn't like a heavyweight.

01:14:01.774 --> 01:14:08.479
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I thought her physicality played very well with a boxer because she's awful.

01:14:09.780 --> 01:14:18.528
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was thinking, um, who's who's the woman who's in the uh, in the angle with Austin Theory.

01:14:19.884 --> 01:14:21.465
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, uh, Matt's scene, dupery.

01:14:22.546 --> 01:14:34.453
[SPEAKER_01]: Just because she's got some height to her, but she doesn't have like the physical presence of, uh, one quite more already kind of gives off number one a set plot kind of energy, but also like

01:14:35.953 --> 01:14:43.619
[SPEAKER_00]: I can take what you're dishing out and I can't give it back to you, but I can give you something kind of thing.

01:14:44.580 --> 01:14:47.522
[SPEAKER_00]: And for me, that kind of reminded me of cable.

01:14:49.984 --> 01:14:57.910
[SPEAKER_00]: And they also have that kind of very mature like striking beauty looked at that that both kind of haven't.

01:14:59.127 --> 01:15:07.976
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, like I feel like there was a, I don't know if the modern day call, but you know, masking to pre-ins and good one, you know, like just, she, Moriarty's character.

01:15:17.276 --> 01:15:25.482
[SPEAKER_00]: is an excellent supporting character, but doesn't have enough material to be at cone, like main character.

01:15:25.922 --> 01:15:35.769
[SPEAKER_00]: And trying to find like a main character, a wrestling personality to do that role is it really easy as a one to one with the way that women are portrayed.

01:15:35.809 --> 01:15:43.635
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think with like certain scenarios, I guess the one wrestling personality that feel like

01:15:45.243 --> 01:15:47.946
[SPEAKER_00]: But most like this is what bought it, it's aable.

01:15:49.367 --> 01:15:53.771
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a sassiness to live Morgan's character that you could see.

01:15:54.391 --> 01:16:01.497
[SPEAKER_01]: But she is a little bit more dominating of Dominic Mysterio, then at least back then.

01:16:01.558 --> 01:16:03.239
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she's a big lady.

01:16:03.900 --> 01:16:07.182
[SPEAKER_00]: She seems like messy, like, with Morgan, where I don't think.

01:16:09.785 --> 01:16:11.987
[SPEAKER_00]: Moriarty is messy so much as

01:16:13.688 --> 01:16:16.910
[SPEAKER_00]: chaotic and respond to the chaos that she introduced to.

01:16:16.930 --> 01:16:17.070
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:16:18.991 --> 01:16:19.151
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:16:19.171 --> 01:16:20.812
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

01:16:20.832 --> 01:16:21.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's give the final grade.

01:16:22.514 --> 01:16:31.879
[SPEAKER_01]: I went into this thinking that I didn't know how much I was going to like at night ended up thinking this movie was really good.

01:16:31.999 --> 01:16:34.201
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going a minus with my grade.

01:16:35.261 --> 01:16:38.865
[SPEAKER_00]: That is funny because I too am going a minor with this great.

01:16:39.005 --> 01:16:41.849
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew I wasn't going to go in and like this movie.

01:16:41.949 --> 01:16:55.365
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I don't love course aces, I just don't, but I understand what I'm watching and I understand the craft and the work putting into it and the theme that they are trying to devote while they don't.

01:16:56.045 --> 01:16:56.946
[SPEAKER_00]: Ruginate with me.

01:16:57.367 --> 01:17:14.967
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got guys like Edwin in the chat here that are maintaining just how much they love this movie Yeah, and from that I can understand and I just be like, you know what for a movie I don't like they made a damn good movie And I think next we talked about doing princess bride next

01:17:15.752 --> 01:17:26.774
[SPEAKER_00]: We have two options I think because October and it just depends on how quick we're going to get to it is either the Street Fighter movie from the 1990s or Princess Brian.

01:17:27.254 --> 01:17:37.276
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm fine with either to be honest, I could probably knock out both if you wanted to before the end of September when does the Street Fighter hit the theaters.

01:17:37.596 --> 01:17:39.156
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be early October.

01:17:40.597 --> 01:17:40.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:17:43.655 --> 01:18:12.847
[SPEAKER_01]: So what we're going to do street fighter a hundred percent yeah there's another movie that comes at November called I play Rocky which is a movie about the making of Rocky okay I would love to do that so if we if that's October and November then yeah we should just do something for September I didn't just go princess bride because it's a movie that we both know fairly well as it is

01:18:13.547 --> 01:18:38.327
[SPEAKER_01]: it would be a fun revisit and I also I also got the criteria in collection very good so I'm going to rewatch it in you know and have all the features if I need to but that's going to be fun on and obviously the connection for this website because it's like the princess bride that's not about wrestling or is Andre the giant Andre the Giants in this movie for a decent amount of time so that's that's

01:18:42.790 --> 01:18:42.971
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

01:18:42.991 --> 01:18:43.852
[SPEAKER_00]: Inconceivable.

01:18:46.916 --> 01:18:47.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice one.

01:18:47.517 --> 01:18:47.937
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice play.

01:18:47.957 --> 01:18:48.318
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

01:18:49.391 --> 01:18:50.352
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, that is it from here.

01:18:50.372 --> 01:18:52.954
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you enjoyed the discussion.

01:18:53.314 --> 01:18:55.916
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of those that is kind of evergreen content.

01:18:55.936 --> 01:19:01.640
[SPEAKER_01]: So if people watch it today or tomorrow or in a year or two, I think it still is going to hold value.

01:19:02.580 --> 01:19:03.821
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was fun for me to do though.

01:19:04.182 --> 01:19:12.408
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved revisiting or I loved visiting this one, though knowing a ton about it and having never seen it, I did enjoy the process of going through it.

01:19:12.468 --> 01:19:15.310
[SPEAKER_01]: So, all right, for Jeremy, I'm WG,