Is Peak WWE Over? + AEW Dynamite Ratings Surge! | Takedown

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[SPEAKER_01]: welcome back to take down Paul Fontaine and I here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk a lot of WWE on this show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what before we actually even really good started, salty Scott Young, who has been on the rap with Keela Cash for many years of late.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's had adjustments to his work schedule.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They've had to record much later than they had in the past

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[SPEAKER_01]: They'd been going live, but it's just been really hard for them to connect and Scott, because of his job.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think he got a promotion of some sort, or maybe he got a job that he was looking for, a position that he was looking for.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's gonna make it much harder for him to record, and they talked about this last night on the rap.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think he's gonna have to step away for a bit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now my hope,

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[SPEAKER_01]: is that the two of them can kind of figure it out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like to me, I don't really care when they record as long as they want to keep doing it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But for now, I think the wrap will just be on pause, and we'll figure out everything that we have to figure out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think Kila is still super interested in doing WWE stuff, so post WWE post shows and stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: As far as the future of the wrap, we will

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you just do the Keela cash show, but I think she likes the debate and the banter with the co-hosts.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's only like you'll show by yourself.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and not it wouldn't have to be by yourself, but you'd have to find, yes, or you'd have to find people to talk to.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And when this is just a side hobby for fun, that outside work of trying to get all those things in line is it's pretty hard.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It takes some time and sometimes you can't.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, oh my god.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've stepped in for Scott a couple times in the last few months.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure he gets tired of asking.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know the last time he asked I was way behind so I couldn't and then then like I'm I'm just I'm almost caught up now so it's like they would ask me yesterday I probably would have said no but if it was next week I probably could so it's you know just depends.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so, you know, Scott is always going to be a part of us and I appreciate him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember when I think it was JD Oliva, who was like, hey, what about Scott?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Scott's a little annoying man.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's a little per on James fan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's a miss fan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like he's trolling me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But as it turns out he is just a good nature dude likes to have a little bit of fun and I grew to really love Scott and he's so funny and he and Kila together are such a great team.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was a show and I know you heard this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They did show recently.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and Scott was trying to give Ethan Page, like lots and lots of props, and he's like, you know, I compare him to the Miz and Kila was like, hold up, like, as if comparing for the Miz is actually a discot and Scott's being genuine, as if this was like the greatest compliment someone to give somebody, oh, I died laughing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I, yeah, I just turned that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I just listened to it a couple of days ago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And like, I totally agreed with what Scott was saying.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And he meant it as a compliment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But Kayla totally took it like, you know, like you're comparing, you know, like, I don't know, like, you know, Steph Curry to like, you know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like mighty mouse, you know, like yeah, because, you know, like the raptors of my favorite team and mighty mouse was their first big star, so like step crazy is like the golden state worries version of mighty mouse, you know, that's compliment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're you're like what?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh man, it was so funny.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, best wish this got, you know, if he can pop in at any point, he's got some free time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's always welcome and whenever he figures out his schedule, he is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: very open to him doing whatever he wants to do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I support Scott love those two.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so before we talk about WWE, which is what the focus of this conversation is going to be.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was interested in what you thought about that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: WWE died of my number from one today.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, my, my gut instinct, and I will say this the last time they had a big jump like that was right after the, um, the revolution paper view.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was when Ronda Rousey had been on the paper view and they did a huge 18 to 49 number.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then they dropped right back down the next week when, you know, like it turns out, oh, yeah, that was just a one shot thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's not really on the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't even mention around dynamite.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that was my initial thought.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That was, yeah, because that was, you know, February 4th, they went from a 0.09 to a 0.15, you know, like that's it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then this time they went from a 0.11 to a 0.15 and we had McFoli on the paper view.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the difference here is he is going to be on the show, you know, probably, you know, I don't know how often, but regularly, you know, be on all the paper views and Tony says he'd be on a lot of the TVs too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like Rhonda wears like a one-shot deal if people tune in wine to see fully if that was the reason then it could be sustainable.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, will see tomorrow like tomorrow on paper is a much bigger show than last week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you've got the world title match, you've got Osprey versus Mark Davis, you got Kevin Knight and Mike Bailey, you know, like battle partners TNT title match and you got that mystery opponent for out's Windsor who, you know, I'm sure people are expecting Mercedes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's going to be Mercedes, but that's probably what people are tuning in expecting to see so if.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If that show all of a sudden we dropped back to like a point one one then that tells me yeah it was I mean it was a paper view bump but it may have been related to fully may have just been related to the fact that they did not show you know and and that that revolution paper view is also you know pretty awesome show too but when you bring in a big star from another company.

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[SPEAKER_00]: generally you're going to have a ratings bounce back on the next TV.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's been the case for decades in all companies.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That was my gut instinct.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There are numbers have been creeping up over the last few months.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This was a sharp jump, but I don't necessarily think that they're going to drop down to like 600,000 and a point of weight or anything like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're floor might be like

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[SPEAKER_01]: check you with these numbers.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really believe them, but when you see the number bounce back like that or jump up like that, you take notice.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it's almost like

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[SPEAKER_01]: If you give me three weeks of numbers, then I'm kind of like, okay, if I kind of look at those three weeks to determine what I believe, I'm more comfortable doing it that way than just looking at these one week.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a couple of times.

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[SPEAKER_00]: These numbers change so much.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The one really big, the really positive thing I'll say, they have been like since this year started.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, case into January 26th, remember that was the day when Neil Send just completely changed everything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: all of a sudden the numbers started looking a little bit better and they made a couple of tweaks instead.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But since that day we've had 18 weeks of dynamite and 13 of those 18 weeks they've been up year over year and in total viewers and WWE isn't even close to doing that and a W hasn't done that in

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[SPEAKER_00]: years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like the last time they were up year over year for any sustain like the time was 2022 from 2021, which is, um, I believe when CM Punk came in.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, like this is the best growth they've had since CM Punk.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What it tells me is that there are things that we can actually believe in when it comes to the quality of your shows and the quality of your creative, which is going to definitely be part of our discussion, and I have a hot take on this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't even told you about it yet, but I'm curious what people are going to think when we get to it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But do the WWE conversation?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, um, so we are on a, uh, I guess what is it, through, is it four weeks, uh, three, three and a half weeks until forbidden door, yeah, I don't think we have a single match for that show yet.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We know that we're going to see the finale, the finals of the Owen cup matches, but other than that we're still waiting for some stuff to build and you know, I've still

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still not sure about San Jose, man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and the tickets have kind of stalled out around 5,000, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I would expect, they'll probably go up a little bit once they start announcing matches, but, and they'll probably drop the prices, but my set of prices aren't that bad either, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't think they're that bad.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, I mean, way cheaper than when WWE comes to town.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and the you think like with the with the great TVs and the buzz coming off the paper view and all that like you'd think that, you know, there'd be some buzz about San Jose, but yeah, maybe it's just that they're waiting for matches and I know you want to see mystical and and that I mean he may not be available like yeah, that sucks that's going to suck if he can't wrestle and that may have something to do with why they haven't announced anything yet like he told me may want to see okay who do I have.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's also not really a natural progression for the world title right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, I think after last week's TV, we can, I assumed it was going to be Briscoe, Mark Briscoe and MJF.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, to be on the paper view on the paper view.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, because we're getting Roosh next week on TV.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So unless MJF is going to do another TV title defense between now and the paper view,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I, if it wasn't MJF, it's champion.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I could see it, but MJF is a pretty smart guy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think he knows that he needs to limit the amount of times he wrestles on TV for him, like it, because it, it's still a draw when he does defend the title on TV.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when Darby was defending it every week, like we didn't really see numbers move.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, it was great critical and everybody loved it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, like those shows were widely reviewed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that had something to do with that great paper view number they did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, the fact that everybody was seeing him rest every week and they were having awesome matches, but with with them, Jeff, it's different.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was the hair.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's probably part of it, too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, if it was the hair, then people might be pissed off because they didn't get to see him bowl.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm sure I'm in a little bit with that one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I find it to be, you know, I find AEW's current run to be a lot of it having to do with the world title.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just MJF and Mark Briscoe,

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[SPEAKER_00]: is a really fun match with love mark brisco when I saw video package and then I saw the mgf like appearing next mgf was like all of a sudden it goes oh man they're going to do mark brisco and mgf and i was excited and i'm putting the discord and then the next segment they set that match up so it's like yeah i'm i'm with you sorry i just don't know that that's moving tickets for sales i

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[SPEAKER_01]: uh, maybe as much as say M.J. F. versus Kenny Omega would have or M.J. F. versus Darby again would have like what would have been different and and brisk goes a really really really good match and I actually like that match a lot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What if you get that and you get willosprane swirl and you get maybe Mercedes returning and oh, I don't want to get people's hopes up with what Mercedes, I don't know what's going on with her.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like whatever the women's finals are going to be Windsor and I don't know Athena.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's not really a big ticket draw is it I must feel like this this forbidden door paper view might be.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It might be the one that Tony does because he loves the synergy and he loves the collaborations, but unless you have that really, unless you have that dream match, I'm not sure that this thing is going to do great business.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and what do you, what is the dream match?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, from, I mean, obviously, Mystico, if he's available, but nobody else from CML, that, you know, like, you see them all the time, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And New Japan, like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, there's people we don't see, but is there anybody we want to see?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yota suji against, you know, I don't know, and draw day, like, well, that's match I've done in New Japan, but Yota suji and Kyle Fletcher, that'd be a hell of a match, but is that selling tickets?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not selling more tickets than Kyle Fletcher and Takeshita, which is their own match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, right, yeah, or Ocata, you know, Ocata and, you know, like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what's a caught are going to do like he's figure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to have a big match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's a big draw in San Jose.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know that like in the past.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe he wrestles a guy from New Japan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That I mean, that might have some intrigue, but there's no big draws in New Japan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's the problem.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like not in the US anyways.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Not even in over there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like nobody's moving tickets over there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're just kind of doing what they do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: by by the way, what do you think of the three shows happening on that day?

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[SPEAKER_01]: NXT TNA and AEW all in the same way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And isn't WWE, like isn't the crowd Julia day before?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is it, I think so?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Jeremy said something about like the rest is going to start at one PM Eastern or Pacific.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So is it like what are those shows in the afternoon or something?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know either.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it's crazy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this past weekend was bad enough with, you know, like, two shows in two days.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, well, I guess three technically.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then last week, we had, yeah, it's, I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We had a couple weeks in a row now where we don't have much going on, so that's good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'd so I'd be so down if a W said it to go a few hours early, but they don't, they shouldn't have to run away from NXT or TNA.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, no.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No, like I think like this, this show like Dave even pointed out on X, like they're, they're going to probably do better than they did last year because it's on free TV, but I don't think it's going to affect a W one bit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The amount of those people that are actually watching NXT, I bet is under 10,000.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't think there's much crossover between a hardcore AW paperview audience and people that are watching developmental people that you've never heard of,

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[SPEAKER_00]: is that TNA show a paper view?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's an app special.

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[SPEAKER_00]: TNA June.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I think the next paper view is, oh no, it's time to version.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No, that is a paper view.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's a big, like there, it's a ganisterine and Boston.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's a building, you know, a W runs for nine of my all the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, 8,000 seats.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's their biggest show of the year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In some way, well, about for glory.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's one of them, yeah, they're going to, I think they've sold like 3500 tickets already, but nobody's behind that paper for you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, nobody, you know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, for them, like they set that date before AWS, like I don't think at AWS targeted them or anything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tony, you know, Tony takes whatever dates, you know, his partners want to do and when his buildings are available and stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just like a bad coincidence for TNA.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think, gosh, the Joel from Fightful, he had put on blue sky.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, you know, he's talking about all three shows being on the same top, or on the same day, and he's like, get ready, resting fans.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I wouldn't have watched that NXT show unopposed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you're not watching TNA, I watch all three, but there's no way I'm watching them all in the same day.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, which one a lot watch first, which everyone errors first.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's just me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if one of them's early, that's the one that I'm going to watch.

17:01.767 --> 17:06.208
[SPEAKER_01]: But you'd like to watch everything in the order that it is broadcast.

17:06.348 --> 17:08.228
[SPEAKER_00]: I try to, I try to.

17:08.268 --> 17:16.130
[SPEAKER_00]: But because of shows like this, like I made sure and watched the, you know, the two WWE shows this weekend, but we think in case we had to talk about anything.

17:16.150 --> 17:19.551
[SPEAKER_00]: And I skipped the New Japan stuff that aired in between it.

17:19.651 --> 17:19.791
[SPEAKER_00]: But.

17:21.046 --> 17:22.768
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm up to date on New Japan right now, too.

17:23.008 --> 17:26.792
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually watched the whole card from yesterday's show, including the prelimbs.

17:28.054 --> 17:28.434
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

17:28.654 --> 17:28.875
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

17:29.775 --> 17:30.336
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a sicko.

17:31.457 --> 17:32.238
[SPEAKER_01]: You are sicko.

17:33.039 --> 17:33.279
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

17:33.299 --> 17:34.460
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about WWE.

17:34.781 --> 17:39.826
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I have been resistant to the idea that

17:42.247 --> 17:43.449
[SPEAKER_01]: business was slowing down.

17:43.669 --> 17:50.076
[SPEAKER_01]: Or I mean, it, it, it's hard to stay where they were for any sort of amount of time.

17:50.657 --> 17:57.064
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was resistant to the idea that they could possibly be getting cold because they're still

17:58.181 --> 18:01.822
[SPEAKER_01]: doing great business on their live shows.

18:02.822 --> 18:05.383
[SPEAKER_01]: They have sweet deals with the SPN and NXT.

18:06.163 --> 18:11.705
[SPEAKER_01]: Smack down is still doing really, really good ratings, even with the craziness of the ratings.

18:12.525 --> 18:14.085
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've just been resistant.

18:14.105 --> 18:21.967
[SPEAKER_01]: I've just been thinking like, I don't want to be the person to say things are bad when they're not really bad.

18:24.008 --> 18:25.668
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this paper view broke me though.

18:28.427 --> 18:34.770
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was on with Dave on Friday and I said, on paper, this show looks awesome.

18:35.831 --> 18:48.077
[SPEAKER_01]: And my worry is that the way that these matches are booked, I'm not really going to like the finishes and I'm just that these PLEs have underperformed essentially to me.

18:49.368 --> 19:08.595
[SPEAKER_01]: And so some of this might just be my own like self-fulfilling prophecy here, but when I saw the rest of what people were talking about on this show and and look these if you compare these to 2019 WWE or 2018 WWE like these shows are way better than that stuff was

19:09.295 --> 19:20.702
[SPEAKER_01]: But what you have to compare them to is what you expect to happen or what the recent high period of WWE is or what, you know, what's your excitement level.

19:21.822 --> 19:30.547
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, like these things are like B minus C plus shows, and then you have Triple H talking about how they're changing the business.

19:30.587 --> 19:31.108
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just like,

19:32.257 --> 19:41.025
[SPEAKER_01]: how like what what did what happened on that show that was so fantastic that made you kind of go oh man, WWE's back.

19:41.746 --> 19:52.897
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't I tried to figure out like what am I missing on this show to make me think that they are getting back into it creatively and they're going to be on their

19:56.059 --> 20:05.033
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless you saw something on class in Italy that were you're like, okay, like that thing right there, that is that is going to be something hot that they're going to be able to build on.

20:06.110 --> 20:10.494
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, no, like, no, I mean, that's, that's kind of loaded.

20:10.794 --> 20:14.577
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, I don't listen to Triple H. I don't know where these comments come from.

20:14.617 --> 20:26.166
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know who he's talking to, but he might as well be talking to the wind for all I care, because I haven't seen nor heard anything that Triple H is said since I don't know, like before Mania, like I just, he's like so far off my radar.

20:26.226 --> 20:26.767
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter.

20:26.787 --> 20:27.767
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just watch the shows.

20:28.708 --> 20:33.472
[SPEAKER_00]: That said, I mean, there's nothing you said that was wrong about the paper view.

20:34.473 --> 20:39.698
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't think of any positive thing that came out of any one of those matches.

20:42.281 --> 20:45.664
[SPEAKER_00]: Even like, you know, the one that I, you know, on paper sounds,

20:46.204 --> 20:50.468
[SPEAKER_00]: Good would would be so ruka beating Becky Lynch to win the intercontinental title.

20:50.508 --> 20:51.069
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, Oh, great.

20:51.089 --> 20:55.854
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they put over an Italian everything, but that match was all about like showing everybody.

20:56.014 --> 20:57.575
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you know what, so ruka is not ready.

20:58.156 --> 21:04.162
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, Becky's got her number, Becky knows all her moves are coming and get away from them before she even hits them.

21:04.542 --> 21:10.108
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all of a sudden she just wins out of nowhere with their soul crusher and everyone cheers and our soul snatcher whatever it's called.

21:11.040 --> 21:11.640
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was that.

21:11.700 --> 21:13.801
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was like, it was the worst match on the show.

21:13.821 --> 21:19.503
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I guess Rhea Jade was, I thought it was a really good match.

21:19.803 --> 21:22.544
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, I, I liked that match a lot.

21:22.764 --> 21:25.545
[SPEAKER_00]: I would tell you if that screwed it up.

21:25.986 --> 21:26.286
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

21:26.466 --> 21:30.587
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, other than that, like the match, I thought was as good or better than the WrestleMania match.

21:31.248 --> 21:32.208
[SPEAKER_00]: The right person won.

21:32.788 --> 21:33.788
[SPEAKER_00]: The crowd was hot.

21:33.929 --> 21:35.769
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I won't take that away from them.

21:35.829 --> 21:37.190
[SPEAKER_00]: They, you know, they booked a,

21:38.130 --> 21:42.112
[SPEAKER_00]: uh building and they sold a lot of tickets and that crowd loved what they're watching.

21:42.352 --> 21:57.118
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, uh I do you made the comment um you know especially when you compare the audience and the Mexico show to that one on the paper view that you called it like fake and I get what you're saying like a lot of times they're making noise and they're not really reacting to what they're watching.

21:57.559 --> 21:58.379
[SPEAKER_00]: Right Tom.

21:58.419 --> 21:59.079
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it is.

21:59.359 --> 22:03.721
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean in some cases they were you know like being loud for the stars.

22:04.081 --> 22:05.782
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah is being loud for the stars.

22:05.822 --> 22:07.103
[SPEAKER_01]: Like those people are just over

22:07.983 --> 22:10.405
[SPEAKER_00]: But you didn't watch SmackDown right?

22:10.826 --> 22:11.346
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I didn't watch.

22:11.566 --> 22:20.214
[SPEAKER_00]: So SmackDown was more like the Mexico crowd where they were they were reacting to the stars like big time, but they were also reacting to matches.

22:20.555 --> 22:28.782
[SPEAKER_00]: So they had a segment at the beginning of the show where you had Jade came out with her baddies and then she got interrupted by Charlotte and Alexa and then Rhea.

22:29.669 --> 22:44.707
[SPEAKER_00]: And those six women, and I'm saying all six, like they came off like the biggest stars in the world to that audience, and I would say I said in my comment in the discord was like, if you, if WWE's recruiting people specifically women.

22:45.363 --> 23:04.533
[SPEAKER_00]: They're probably showing them a tape of that and saying, like, this is what you could be, you know, like if you use time with us, you know, yeah, you can go to a W maybe you'll get more money, everything, but you'll be a big star over here and you know, maybe people listen to that like I think it's bullshit, but they, you know, like they're going to look at that and say, oh, wow, you know, like beef abs, she's like nothing and they're treating her like a big star.

23:06.354 --> 23:09.177
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's actually talk about that AAA show for a little bit now.

23:09.637 --> 23:11.019
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not watching those shows.

23:11.059 --> 23:12.580
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not following story lines.

23:12.620 --> 23:15.963
[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing I know is mask versus mask.

23:16.343 --> 23:24.371
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the OG, El Grande versus the other El Grande and the thing about that match.

23:26.886 --> 23:53.221
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you put that, if you put that match outside of AAA and it's in a WWE arena, I probably think it's overbooked all the hell, but because of the story that they were telling and the little pieces of that story to kind of, you know, it was kind of like their version of Roman and Cody when Cody won the title, like you have all these like little things that are parts of it and they all kind of all come together in that one match.

23:54.780 --> 24:14.050
[SPEAKER_01]: But those fans were reacting to what was happening in the match, they were reacting to the wrestlers, they were reacting to the things that those wrestlers wanted them to react to, and I compare that to Italy, because Roman hits that last spear in the crowd was like,

24:15.568 --> 24:16.449
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, is that it?

24:16.469 --> 24:17.789
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not sure if that's it.

24:18.230 --> 24:20.611
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they were dead silent at the end of that match.

24:21.051 --> 24:21.391
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

24:21.551 --> 24:22.211
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

24:22.351 --> 24:38.539
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's from saying, which is, on one side, that crowd and triple A in Mexico, they were, they were actively watching the match, actively reacting to every little intricate detail of what they were being the story that was being told.

24:39.099 --> 24:42.401
[SPEAKER_01]: And in Italy, they were reacting to the star power.

24:43.281 --> 24:51.947
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were reacting to singing songs or, you know, or, you know, having a good time, I guess, they were into each other as a crowd.

24:52.407 --> 24:57.490
[SPEAKER_01]: But there were moments in that show, Cody and Gunther, that finished for their match.

24:58.471 --> 25:03.354
[SPEAKER_01]: The crowd was probably pretty confused, because I think most of the viewers were confused the way that they shot it.

25:03.454 --> 25:04.335
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw it coming out of,

25:06.104 --> 25:16.171
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't super close attention, so I didn't even notice the foot under the ropes and then as soon as the match was over, I was like skipping ahead to the next match, so they sort of bunch of replays.

25:16.411 --> 25:24.497
[SPEAKER_00]: Later on in the show, they showed the Italian commentators calling it, and then that's when I saw, oh shit, they did a disputed finish.

25:25.077 --> 25:27.279
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the finish to kind of

25:31.396 --> 25:54.378
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is also the finish that AEW rarely does and John the Rocker will call them out for it all the time going like you didn't even protect your guy you didn't protect your guy and yet to that audience even in losing those guys get over more than they would have if they got protected on the finish and in this one need neither guy got over Cody feels like

25:55.274 --> 25:58.320
[SPEAKER_01]: He is a little long in the tooth for this title.

25:58.661 --> 26:00.144
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, I don't think it's his fault.

26:00.164 --> 26:05.193
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just so hard to be a baby face champion for as long as he's been in Gunther.

26:06.381 --> 26:20.716
[SPEAKER_01]: He had, he got the John Cena win, and it's just been like, ho-hum since then, like, they had no plan for him, or they had a plan and the plan didn't come to fruition for whatever reason, and then they had to have a backup.

26:21.316 --> 26:24.079
[SPEAKER_00]: So now it's just like, oh, shit, we have to do something with Gunther, I guess.

26:24.880 --> 26:25.981
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, put him in the way they're Seth.

26:26.321 --> 26:27.022
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be good match.

26:27.602 --> 26:28.844
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, well, what's the storyline?

26:28.944 --> 26:29.404
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't matter.

26:30.625 --> 26:31.686
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, baby with Cody.

26:32.006 --> 26:32.887
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the storyline?

26:32.967 --> 26:33.408
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't matter.

26:33.908 --> 26:41.173
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, okay, and then you know, and then they sell, you know, 14,000 tickets and the crowd super hot and triple H is a we're changing the business.

26:41.554 --> 26:50.501
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know, like, you know, well, let's do the triple H thing right now because I, I am a fan of.

26:52.950 --> 26:56.331
[SPEAKER_01]: Paul Ovec, the creative person.

26:56.651 --> 27:10.715
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, I respected Paul Ovec or I respected Triple H, the wrestler was not a fan of Triple H, the wrestler, because I think he held a lot of people down and didn't make, he made very few guys when he was on his run.

27:11.315 --> 27:18.317
[SPEAKER_01]: He was losing two guys who were already made with the one exception of that I can think of, what was John Cena?

27:19.177 --> 27:20.738
[SPEAKER_01]: Who was going to pass him anyway?

27:21.018 --> 27:28.920
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he had a part in getting a rock, you know, over at at, you know, back in the day, but yeah, he to the rock is going to get over anyway.

27:28.980 --> 27:30.720
[SPEAKER_00]: He got he tried to fuck the rock.

27:30.880 --> 27:39.883
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, when they first like when they're feuding when they're on the rise, like he was losing the rock and that that helped they think they both got over, but, you know, tripply, you know, tripply.

27:39.903 --> 27:42.744
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know about when he was I'm talking about when he was the peak of his path.

27:42.804 --> 27:47.045
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, when he was at the peak of but I'm like, I've been a fan, you know, he's one of my favorite.

27:47.045 --> 27:47.866
[SPEAKER_00]: rest of all time.

27:47.966 --> 28:00.035
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've said that, but when I list, you know, when I tell people, like, I don't often say it just because it's not a popular opinion, but I, you know, like right back from terrorizing, like I just, I like that guy.

28:00.275 --> 28:02.277
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just follow them and we're about the same age.

28:02.597 --> 28:06.280
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we watched the same stuff growing up, so same physique.

28:06.881 --> 28:07.241
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

28:09.453 --> 28:13.755
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I appreciated the growth of, you know, and the hair.

28:13.875 --> 28:15.315
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.

28:15.575 --> 28:16.096
[SPEAKER_00]: Now he's bald.

28:16.116 --> 28:16.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice love mine.

28:17.816 --> 28:30.161
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, no, he, and you know, and then he transitions into, you know, this is kind of rooted for him because I felt like he got, he got kind of dealt a bad hand, you know, with with the NXT versus A, W. War.

28:30.461 --> 28:33.662
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, he kind of, I just watched the last season's

28:36.417 --> 28:51.507
[SPEAKER_00]: that played out exactly like WWE like it was the it was the husband of the of the owner's daughter that got the company and that's what happened in WWE that's what happened in succession and it's like oh my god he's Tom Wagenbaum.

28:52.348 --> 28:56.991
[SPEAKER_00]: Triple H. But yeah and and now yeah the the blooms off the rows I mean

28:57.888 --> 29:01.249
[SPEAKER_00]: The whole thing is, it's like, he never was a great booker.

29:01.329 --> 29:06.751
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just he wasn't Vince, like, and now Vince has been gone for a few years, and it's like, hey, what do you got, buddy?

29:06.771 --> 29:08.072
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, I mean, I could do this.

29:08.092 --> 29:09.172
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can see that, I could do it again.

29:09.192 --> 29:20.736
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

29:22.378 --> 29:32.343
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the third iteration of the NWO now, they are in so much of a better position at WCW was back then, but that's kind of what it feels like it's like, okay, we're getting the band back.

29:32.363 --> 29:39.246
[SPEAKER_01]: When they did that stare off, it was like, I think they were expecting a big pop and it was just like, the fans are like, what?

29:40.226 --> 29:41.587
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

29:41.607 --> 29:49.210
[SPEAKER_01]: So my point about Triple H is, I do feel like when you are,

29:52.098 --> 30:00.061
[SPEAKER_01]: Triple H is not middle management, but he is closer to middle management than he is to the guys who are really calling the shots.

30:00.682 --> 30:13.627
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I compare him a little bit to like a NBA GM because the NBA GMs, they are so risk-averse because they just want to keep their job.

30:14.653 --> 30:22.537
[SPEAKER_01]: So you want to do something that makes the owner happy so that the owner believes that you are, you know, that you are valuable.

30:22.757 --> 30:34.402
[SPEAKER_01]: And in some cases, if the owner says, hey, how do we get better and and the GM says, well, we got a tank or we got a lean out and we got to trust this whole process we're going to win in the draft.

30:35.022 --> 30:35.883
[SPEAKER_01]: You can actually.

30:37.518 --> 30:42.843
[SPEAKER_01]: have a lengthy process of that and still keep your job because there's no expectation.

30:42.863 --> 30:44.965
[SPEAKER_01]: The expectation is that you're you're rebuilding.

30:45.946 --> 30:51.692
[SPEAKER_01]: Triple H right now is like I'll compare it to my golden state warriors.

30:53.494 --> 30:54.755
[SPEAKER_01]: They won four titles.

30:55.576 --> 30:56.797
[SPEAKER_01]: They got long in the tooth.

30:57.718 --> 30:58.458
[SPEAKER_01]: They got old.

30:59.681 --> 31:03.363
[SPEAKER_01]: they made some mistakes in their draft.

31:03.423 --> 31:12.808
[SPEAKER_01]: They had three big shots to bring in big time players and they got like a half of one who is still in the team.

31:14.069 --> 31:17.171
[SPEAKER_01]: And what you're trying to do is for the warriors,

31:18.373 --> 31:36.843
[SPEAKER_01]: You're trying to appease an owner who says that, you know, he, the lawyers or light years ahead of everybody else in, in basketball, who wants to be in the mix for the best players and the NBA title every year, which is almost impossible with the way that the second apron works today.

31:37.984 --> 31:42.427
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time, you have this fan base and you have this new, new, ish.

31:43.593 --> 31:51.180
[SPEAKER_01]: A stadium that you have to pack because this is your revenue source consistently is your warriors basketball is the game in town.

31:51.600 --> 31:53.662
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can't just go, okay, we're tanking.

31:54.843 --> 32:03.891
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't just send Steph Curry off to never never land because this dude is still like he's the most beloved athlete in the history of the Bay Area.

32:04.251 --> 32:04.932
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like your John

32:12.863 --> 32:20.828
[SPEAKER_01]: bigger than, um, I'm trying to Jerry Rice, the biggest, like, and I don't think it's even really that close.

32:21.228 --> 32:21.429
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

32:21.449 --> 32:26.091
[SPEAKER_01]: Bigger than Buster Posey, all these guys.

32:26.151 --> 32:32.415
[SPEAKER_01]: Reggie Jackson would have been in the 70s for the Bay Area, but yeah, like Steph Curry is far and away.

32:32.495 --> 32:34.557
[SPEAKER_01]: Bigger than Willie Mays, Willie McClubby, all those guys.

32:34.617 --> 32:34.857
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

32:35.257 --> 32:35.597
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,

32:36.818 --> 32:42.523
[SPEAKER_01]: He is such a He is such a part of the Bay Area that you can't just go.

32:42.543 --> 32:42.783
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

32:42.803 --> 32:55.814
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna trade him for some draft picks or whatever because those draft picks Even if they pan out you will always be the team that traded the guy who wanted to stay with your franchise the the entire way.

32:55.954 --> 33:04.802
[SPEAKER_01]: So That is kind of where triple H is because he's got Roman Reigns Scott CM Punk Scott Cody

33:06.525 --> 33:27.220
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are three of the biggest stars of the last 10 years and you know CM Punk went away for so long So he comes back and he is like he still has there's still suck there's still stuff in him Because he's he hadn't been you know he hadn't been on TV for as many years as John Cena and then last year You brought John Cena back for that run

33:28.300 --> 33:38.905
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you're just like, man, like I have to appease my bosses at TKO who are like, hey, we got to continue selling out all of these buildings.

33:39.365 --> 33:42.107
[SPEAKER_01]: We're charging higher prices than we've ever charged.

33:42.827 --> 33:45.388
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is why we pay these dudes.

33:45.669 --> 33:49.450
[SPEAKER_01]: What we pay them is so that they help us sell out all these buildings.

33:49.711 --> 33:52.392
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're triple H and you're like, well, you know,

33:53.453 --> 34:07.013
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, we're hot, we should probably get some of these younger guys over because what happens if a CM Punk or Roman Reigns or a John Cena or a Cody, what happens if these guys can't hurt, we don't have anyone to prop up to replace them.

34:08.395 --> 34:09.517
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know,

34:10.987 --> 34:12.728
[SPEAKER_01]: You know we we can figure out how to do that.

34:12.748 --> 34:28.493
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to ride this thing like we got we got and and what what TKO is Is there just a slave to the stock price right there a slave to their quarterly numbers because that's what's going to get that stock price to rise that's how those guys go from

34:30.088 --> 34:32.831
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, wealthy or filthy rich to wealthy.

34:32.851 --> 34:34.912
[SPEAKER_01]: Like those guys are just making money hand over fist.

34:34.973 --> 34:37.575
[SPEAKER_01]: Triple H is making a lot of money and stock too.

34:38.576 --> 34:48.384
[SPEAKER_01]: But he is in a sense, he is at their mercy because if he was to, let's say, get some of these young guys over.

34:49.353 --> 34:56.038
[SPEAKER_01]: at the risk of maybe losing a punk or losing a Roman reigns.

34:56.078 --> 35:03.222
[SPEAKER_01]: And those guys aren't as hot anymore, maybe there's an immediate ticket sale deduction.

35:03.262 --> 35:08.466
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there's an immediate house show all of a sudden we can't sell because of the change in the creative.

35:08.486 --> 35:13.449
[SPEAKER_01]: You have these fans who are willing to pay all of this money and you're making them happy with these stars.

35:13.910 --> 35:14.110
[SPEAKER_01]: So.

35:15.409 --> 35:24.398
[SPEAKER_01]: I see him as like, yeah, I'm running this thing, but really I am at the mercy of the business aspect of it.

35:24.418 --> 35:27.682
[SPEAKER_01]: Like can I make some adjustments and changes?

35:29.125 --> 35:33.891
[SPEAKER_01]: because if I do and and something drops out, I'm going to be blamed.

35:33.971 --> 35:38.977
[SPEAKER_01]: Like these guys at TKO, Mark Shapiro, Ari Emmanuel, Nick Khan.

35:39.098 --> 35:40.820
[SPEAKER_01]: Those guys aren't going to be blamed.

35:41.220 --> 35:43.183
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be triple H is going to be blamed.

35:43.703 --> 35:46.987
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to give him that benefit of the doubt.

35:47.808 --> 35:48.009
[SPEAKER_01]: Now.

35:49.378 --> 35:50.880
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, if you don't come, I'd go ahead.

35:50.900 --> 35:56.687
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was gonna say, like, it's a great analogy because I mean, we grew up, you know, we both in sports fans are whole lives.

35:57.448 --> 36:04.277
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we grew up, and I think it was the same in wrestling too, the GMs at that time.

36:05.158 --> 36:07.379
[SPEAKER_00]: they more or less worked for the fans.

36:07.919 --> 36:11.041
[SPEAKER_00]: They were trying to make the team better every year.

36:11.321 --> 36:18.045
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is before the salary cap, this is, you know, like, this is when gates meant a lot more than television revenue.

36:18.705 --> 36:27.529
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the goal was, you know, win games, become a champion, put the best team on the court that you can on the field on the ice, you know, wherever you're playing.

36:28.610 --> 36:32.312
[SPEAKER_00]: And the GM was basically he answered to the fans.

36:32.852 --> 36:34.133
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was the same thing as a promoter.

36:35.013 --> 36:46.960
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, and especially with TKO and WWE and with these big time NBA NHL major league baseball teams, they're not answering to the fans anymore, they're answering to the owners.

36:48.001 --> 36:50.042
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they're trying to please the owners.

36:50.062 --> 36:53.864
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't care as much about pleasing the fans as you do about pleasing the owners.

36:53.884 --> 36:55.145
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the fans are going to complain.

36:55.165 --> 36:56.926
[SPEAKER_00]: They may even stop coming to the games.

36:56.966 --> 36:59.068
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know what, we got our TV rights fees.

36:59.928 --> 37:03.954
[SPEAKER_00]: We got even if only 5,000 people showed up in the building, we've sold our season tickets.

37:04.335 --> 37:11.986
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, and we've got these boxes sold out and we're making money on these gates, regardless of whether or not people come.

37:12.306 --> 37:14.289
[SPEAKER_00]: And even if not, a single fan showed up to a game,

37:14.890 --> 37:16.771
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, NFL teams are still profitable.

37:16.911 --> 37:19.812
[SPEAKER_00]: I think NBA is probably still profitable, especially with this new TV deal.

37:19.892 --> 37:20.372
[SPEAKER_00]: It's coming in.

37:20.392 --> 37:30.796
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obviously, you want to sell tickets and it looks great if you're building sold out, but they're more appeasing to the owners because if they don't please the owners, they're out of a job.

37:31.673 --> 37:40.496
[SPEAKER_00]: And whereas before like the GMs were kind of like the big boss like you had your owners, all they did was sign the checks and they didn't really have anything to do with it.

37:40.536 --> 37:42.137
[SPEAKER_01]: They're a little bit more active these days.

37:42.157 --> 37:44.917
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because of the values these franchises.

37:45.298 --> 37:50.139
[SPEAKER_01]: Like now here's another analogy that you'll get and then I think others will get.

37:51.140 --> 37:58.602
[SPEAKER_01]: During the pandemic, we were excited for the last dance, which was the Chicago Bulls

38:02.170 --> 38:16.326
[SPEAKER_01]: going over the last season with Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippin, Phil Jackson, and the reason that that team split up is because Jerry Ryan's dwarf, who's the owner of the bulls.

38:17.457 --> 38:32.732
[SPEAKER_01]: was kind of tired of not having the leverage with these guys, Phil Jackson was signing won your deals, Michael Jordan was signing won your deals, Scotty Pippin is criminally underpaid for what he did, but he's kind of at the mercy of these guys going like.

38:33.853 --> 38:56.253
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, we'll see, I'll come back, you know, and then using the fans to kind of create that that that interest and and maybe pull on the ownership a little bit and so when they find when the owner was finding like this is it you're not you're not holding me, you know, for this anymore Jerry Krause who had actually built the team.

38:57.343 --> 39:02.805
[SPEAKER_01]: got the command of saying now you will have to rebuild this team.

39:03.305 --> 39:12.067
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're Jerry Krause and you're like, hey, I really have, I really did not get all of what I deserved to build this dynasty that we have.

39:12.588 --> 39:13.628
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do it again.

39:13.648 --> 39:15.148
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to figure out how to do it again.

39:15.849 --> 39:18.689
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to rebuild this team and we're going to be good.

39:19.330 --> 39:19.390
[SPEAKER_01]: Now

39:27.163 --> 39:28.845
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, what is it 28 years ago?

39:28.865 --> 39:29.105
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 98.

39:29.125 --> 39:39.894
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the last time that they won the Chicago Bulls are still one of the marquee franchisees just because of that and they've been terribly run.

39:39.994 --> 39:40.895
[SPEAKER_01]: They're awful.

39:41.095 --> 39:43.437
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, they had not every once in a while.

39:43.477 --> 39:50.203
[SPEAKER_01]: They, you know, they may click a second round or something, but Derek rose and then Derek rose gets hurt and whatever, but the point is is,

39:51.463 --> 39:59.730
[SPEAKER_01]: Even when the Chicago Bulls were on top of the sports world, they still had an owner who was like, I'm tired of you guys, tell me what to do.

40:00.150 --> 40:06.195
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because of what you guys did, I'm going to be able to make money off of this franchise.

40:07.076 --> 40:10.498
[SPEAKER_01]: Until I'm long gone and my kids are going to be able to make it.

40:10.559 --> 40:11.800
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of this moment,

40:12.561 --> 40:21.568
[SPEAKER_01]: And and and he was willing to go like we don't need to do this anymore and and who did Michael Jordan blame Michael Jordan blame Jerry Krauss to poor GM.

40:23.449 --> 40:30.135
[SPEAKER_01]: You know my I'm sure Michael Jordan likes the rich guys more than he likes the middle managers, but the point is is that even.

40:31.053 --> 40:41.201
[SPEAKER_01]: when you're winning and you're on top of the world, you still have these owners who want to spend less so that they can have more profit.

40:41.621 --> 40:44.183
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the UFC thing right now, right?

40:44.523 --> 40:51.148
[SPEAKER_01]: The UFC thing is all about profit and all about paying the top, even the top talent gets paid okay.

40:51.609 --> 40:54.351
[SPEAKER_01]: But most of the talent that they're just paid,

40:55.336 --> 40:58.577
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, decently, well, because there's no other game in town.

40:59.157 --> 41:03.197
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, listening right now, going like, I have a plan.

41:03.357 --> 41:22.761
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, I mean, there is like there's PFL and there's Ryzen and, um, you know, there was Bellator, but the thing is, like, you have C&TKO, they took the stand years ago, it's like, okay, if, if a guy gets to the point where we don't want to pay any more, let him go, Francis of Ghana, have you a champion of the world?

41:23.201 --> 41:23.461
[SPEAKER_00]: See ya.

41:24.249 --> 41:27.272
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and, oh, and PFL gladly signed him, hey, great.

41:27.652 --> 41:28.053
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?

41:28.393 --> 41:37.161
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, it means we're no longer a monopoly because, hey, you know, other people are signing our guys and and and that and two, it's like, well, we don't have to pay them.

41:37.461 --> 41:38.442
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's somebody else pay them.

41:39.043 --> 41:40.404
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like ever since T.K.

41:40.424 --> 41:41.165
[SPEAKER_00]: He took over.

41:41.565 --> 41:46.309
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, he used to be that Vince would try to hoard people because he was afraid of them going to the competition.

41:47.179 --> 41:48.040
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think T.K.O.

41:48.080 --> 41:52.203
[SPEAKER_00]: cares about people going to the competition anymore, like new days.

41:52.343 --> 41:57.486
[SPEAKER_01]: The way that they write these contracts, at least for the UFC guys, it's like John Jones.

41:58.767 --> 42:04.551
[SPEAKER_01]: We can't make a fight, well, we still have you for a handful of fights, and you can't retire.

42:04.571 --> 42:06.893
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can retire, but you can't leave.

42:07.193 --> 42:08.314
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there is that.

42:08.334 --> 42:10.276
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can check on anytime you like, but you can never leave.

42:11.456 --> 42:14.859
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, there's that too, and that, I mean, that is almost criminal.

42:15.960 --> 42:26.506
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like it's going to get over turn at some point, but even when the contracts expire, like if, you know, like, you know, in Ghana, like there's, there happens all the time.

42:26.526 --> 42:28.367
[SPEAKER_00]: Like every week people are getting tied from UFC.

42:28.768 --> 42:32.670
[SPEAKER_00]: There's guys, like half the guys on that MVP show were people.

42:32.750 --> 42:35.232
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a one guy, the heavyweight, the guy that fought in Ghana.

42:35.813 --> 42:50.411
[SPEAKER_00]: He had he had won his last four fights in UFC and they cut him because they didn't want to pay him the guy wasn't a draw And he was gonna you know, he was gonna go from like making you know 35-40,000 a fight to like a hundred thousand and they're like no Let him go somewhere else

42:51.272 --> 43:18.125
[SPEAKER_00]: and and I think like that's what they'll pay like you said they'll pay the big names they'll pay the codies the Romans the punks the rocks you know the open the trick if they get there they'll get that money but you know when a new day is making 5 million and then all of a sudden the budget kind of said we got a cut you know Paul of X you got a cut 10 million dollars and he looks in all the new days make a lot of money and I'm barely using them you know and it's like would you guys take a pay cut and they're like no okay see a

43:18.645 --> 43:25.192
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, when Vince was there, I don't think he would let that happen because he would have been afraid of them going to a W. And these guys don't care.

43:25.993 --> 43:29.958
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and they don't care if a W is doing 200,000 buys on paper view.

43:30.298 --> 43:32.901
[SPEAKER_00]: That is peanuts compared to the money they're making.

43:33.562 --> 43:38.207
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't care if they're getting a 10 on cage match because, cares about cage match.

43:38.487 --> 43:42.232
[SPEAKER_00]: like, you know, we're selling 14,000 tickets to a building.

43:42.252 --> 43:44.395
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing like, I don't know, I don't even care about kids.

43:44.435 --> 43:44.795
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I know.

43:44.835 --> 43:47.118
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, they're making these big roses.

43:47.138 --> 43:50.042
[SPEAKER_00]: They're getting half a billion dollars a year from Netflix.

43:50.082 --> 43:53.066
[SPEAKER_00]: They're getting $300 million a year from ESPN.

43:53.766 --> 43:54.828
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, ticket sales.

43:54.848 --> 43:55.128
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

43:55.148 --> 43:56.830
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's great when the buildings are full, but

43:57.591 --> 44:05.216
[SPEAKER_00]: They would much rather have a $1,000 gate with $5,000 people in the building than an $800,000 gate with $15,000 people in the building.

44:05.656 --> 44:07.577
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Tony would rather have the building full.

44:08.598 --> 44:10.639
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and that's not to say it's about businessmen or anything like that.

44:10.659 --> 44:12.540
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just where they're at in their development.

44:13.021 --> 44:15.082
[SPEAKER_00]: The paper view buys are more important to them.

44:15.642 --> 44:19.124
[SPEAKER_00]: The TV revenue, the ratings.

44:19.164 --> 44:24.808
[SPEAKER_00]: They're really like, I don't think they're going to get canceled or anything like that, but they've got to maintain these ratings.

44:25.348 --> 44:34.850
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's going to be tough to get a big deal on the next contract if if they're doing, you know, NXT numbers, but if they're doing the numbers they're doing now, they should be okay.

44:36.410 --> 44:48.993
[SPEAKER_01]: So we talked about this when all the cuts happened, yeah, they are playing money ball with the middle of their roster and how this works is if you have someone an NXT and you bring them up.

44:49.912 --> 44:52.274
[SPEAKER_01]: They get a pay, a pay bump, obviously.

44:53.034 --> 44:56.077
[SPEAKER_01]: But then where do you take the money from?

44:56.437 --> 44:57.878
[SPEAKER_01]: Will you take it from the middle?

44:57.938 --> 45:03.782
[SPEAKER_01]: These guys, these folks who are in the middle, who are paid higher than what the folks who are coming up in NXT are.

45:04.042 --> 45:06.945
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not taken away from Roman or Cody or punk.

45:07.325 --> 45:10.367
[SPEAKER_01]: You're paying those guys to basically sell out your buildings.

45:10.907 --> 45:11.088
[SPEAKER_01]: So,

45:11.848 --> 45:13.889
[SPEAKER_01]: That is, that is what they're doing.

45:14.169 --> 45:31.174
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's actually, I wrote down some things and I mentioned in what you think as far as what I believe is kind of the, some of the, the key points, I guess I would say as to where things may have fallen for them.

45:31.554 --> 45:34.335
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to start with number one.

45:36.045 --> 45:39.427
[SPEAKER_01]: was John Cena turning heel at elimination chamber.

45:40.508 --> 46:00.279
[SPEAKER_01]: If you had a big grandiose plan for John Cena turning heel and him beating Cody and now it's John Cena and it's the rock and they are the new power team and Cody's got to get his buddies again together and you got to overcome the two man power trip

46:01.019 --> 46:03.642
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see that as a feasible storyline.

46:03.662 --> 46:07.207
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit of a repeat of the bloodline thing, but it's pretty feasible.

46:08.508 --> 46:12.193
[SPEAKER_01]: When the rock pulls out, and John Cena is there by himself,

46:13.247 --> 46:33.017
[SPEAKER_01]: and they have no explanation for why he turned heel and they have no real plan for the heel turn outside of well we we have to let him have his greatest hits of matches which is him beating baby faces by being the very worst heel wrestler ever just kicking people in the nuts all the time.

46:33.957 --> 46:39.300
[SPEAKER_01]: That I think that is a key point in in this thing falling off a little bit.

46:39.620 --> 46:39.900
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you

46:42.234 --> 47:05.231
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that maybe where, you know, people started to lose confidence and and I mean, and it's, you know, and again, that may not even have been triple ages call, in fact, I don't think it was and I mean, this, this, the thing that I think triple age would have done because he's a safe booker, I have Fernando made the point, I think, yeah, the book and would say, I think the safe thing to do last year would have been.

47:06.032 --> 47:22.960
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe, you know, he wins the elimination chamber and then he loses his world title match and then, you know, what you said about money in the bank so maybe he wins money in the bank and then he wins a title and it's a great moment and he wins a title and then the rest of the year is him defending the title.

47:23.780 --> 47:24.680
[SPEAKER_00]: Trying one last time.

47:24.700 --> 47:25.320
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I do it one more time?

47:25.340 --> 47:26.141
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I do it one more time?

47:26.181 --> 47:26.501
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I do it?

47:26.541 --> 47:33.903
[SPEAKER_00]: And then eventually he loses and then he goes out on his shield and that's it like that to me that's a great story and it's it's an easy sell.

47:33.923 --> 47:53.028
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to sell it all those buildings got baby face John Cena as world champion one last raw before he finally loses and then whoever he loses it to at the end that's the new guy you're anointing to me that would have been the simple thing to do what they ended up doing was as you said they turned him here with no explanation they turned back with no explanation and then you just did what you're going to do anyways.

47:53.508 --> 47:58.469
[SPEAKER_00]: You just had him do a bunch of matches at the end of the year, except he wasn't champion anymore.

47:58.629 --> 48:09.711
[SPEAKER_00]: And to me, like it worked, they made a lot of money, but and we said this at the beginning of the year, because one of our big talking points on this show at the beginning of the year was what's going to happen next now that Cena's gone.

48:10.071 --> 48:12.531
[SPEAKER_00]: And the problem is they did not prepare for the future.

48:13.071 --> 48:14.272
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they get lucky.

48:15.272 --> 48:19.693
[SPEAKER_00]: I think and I think it was luck that Oba got over as big as he did.

48:20.293 --> 48:21.293
[SPEAKER_00]: And what's the first thing they do?

48:23.955 --> 48:31.403
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's actually my second key point is you had a lot of eyeballs on the product.

48:32.445 --> 48:36.709
[SPEAKER_01]: You still had code, you still had a row and you still had punk and now you had seen a back.

48:38.291 --> 48:40.173
[SPEAKER_01]: And you had this opportunity.

48:41.120 --> 48:46.682
[SPEAKER_01]: to build for the future while at the same time as having these folks having these guys still on top.

48:47.002 --> 48:59.848
[SPEAKER_01]: And now some people will say, well, that's what the Pete, the Saturday night's main event was all that was putting the young people, that that's literally the last match that this man had and you decided to put young folks on the show.

49:00.008 --> 49:01.028
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was it was solid.

49:01.048 --> 49:01.589
[SPEAKER_01]: It was good.

49:01.629 --> 49:02.369
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to see a little bit.

49:02.389 --> 49:03.449
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to stage a bond.

49:03.469 --> 49:04.670
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to see soul.

49:04.730 --> 49:04.970
[SPEAKER_01]: People.

49:04.990 --> 49:06.291
[SPEAKER_01]: They were going to call up anyways.

49:06.311 --> 49:08.652
[SPEAKER_01]: So the idea that we were already, they were

49:09.712 --> 49:10.754
[SPEAKER_01]: they were well done.

49:11.155 --> 49:14.342
[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't even, you know, they would have been up.

49:14.543 --> 49:19.453
[SPEAKER_00]: They would have been up last year if it wasn't for the fact that Cena was on top and headlining all the shows.

49:20.222 --> 49:23.945
[SPEAKER_00]: there's no point in bringing those people in then when you couldn't feature them.

49:24.485 --> 49:27.208
[SPEAKER_00]: So then they bring them up now when he's gone.

49:28.268 --> 49:28.749
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's fine.

49:28.769 --> 49:31.171
[SPEAKER_00]: Like maybe Oba could have beat John Cena on it.

49:31.451 --> 49:33.913
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when he's the last match, but I probably would have helped him.

49:34.593 --> 49:41.219
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you go back and look at all the people John Cena lost too, like I think it's like people that were already made or people that aren't even here anymore.

49:42.159 --> 49:43.901
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like AJ Styles and

49:46.929 --> 49:54.796
[SPEAKER_00]: he lost a gunther and then good there's losing a Cody so that you know that didn't do anything um you know I think he might have lost a CM Punk.

49:54.856 --> 49:57.879
[SPEAKER_00]: He was already over and what does he need to beat John Cena for?

49:58.800 --> 49:59.120
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

50:00.061 --> 50:01.442
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, a couple of other quick ones.

50:01.763 --> 50:03.144
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

50:03.925 --> 50:06.026
[SPEAKER_01]: To move to ESPN, I'm still for it.

50:06.487 --> 50:09.610
[SPEAKER_01]: I still think it's great value that brand's still meaningful.

50:11.243 --> 50:17.407
[SPEAKER_01]: But the way that they do these shows, the PLE is so far and they can always change this.

50:18.148 --> 50:24.673
[SPEAKER_01]: One, five matches, there's a positive to it, but there's also a negative to it.

50:25.013 --> 50:36.141
[SPEAKER_01]: The negative is that you don't get to see some of these younger wrestlers who you may want to showcase on a show where Roman reigns is in the main event.

50:37.922 --> 50:43.469
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Javan Evans, maybe you want to show case him trick Williams, maybe you want to show case him.

50:44.029 --> 50:49.896
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're not on these shows because there's only five matches and you can't fit all these these guys on a five match show.

50:50.957 --> 50:52.800
[SPEAKER_01]: And the commercials are killer.

50:53.200 --> 50:54.321
[SPEAKER_01]: They are a killer.

50:54.562 --> 50:56.264
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I've mentioned this before.

50:57.456 --> 51:00.817
[SPEAKER_01]: One of my buddies worked at Hulu in the very early stages of Hulu.

51:00.837 --> 51:08.260
[SPEAKER_01]: When Hulu was just an app that had NBC shows on that you could just pay five bucks a month and you could get commercial free versions of these NBC shows.

51:08.881 --> 51:10.461
[SPEAKER_01]: Literally how I watched 30 rock.

51:10.742 --> 51:18.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched every season of 30 rock on my phone on Hulu one episode before I went to bed every night.

51:18.205 --> 51:19.265
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I watched 30 rock.

51:19.985 --> 51:23.187
[SPEAKER_01]: He told me he goes, hey, we're going to do this test.

51:24.527 --> 51:26.268
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though y'all are paying five bucks.

51:27.096 --> 51:33.161
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna run like a 15 second commercial before you get to play your show.

51:34.302 --> 51:37.045
[SPEAKER_01]: And if people freak out, we may have to adjust.

51:37.205 --> 51:43.911
[SPEAKER_01]: But if people don't really care, we're actually making money off of this ad and we're gonna double-dip.

51:45.032 --> 51:52.038
[SPEAKER_01]: ESPN is the single worst app when it comes to double dipping on their customers that I've ever seen.

51:53.754 --> 51:56.755
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know some people will say, well, it's a live show.

51:57.456 --> 52:03.599
[SPEAKER_01]: They're so, you know, there might be commercials just because you're showing half of the thing on ESPN or ESPN too.

52:04.319 --> 52:07.901
[SPEAKER_01]: And to that I will say, I don't watch this shit live.

52:08.621 --> 52:08.841
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

52:08.961 --> 52:14.624
[SPEAKER_01]: In my on-demand version, those same goddamn commercials are still really, oh, they don't see them.

52:14.644 --> 52:19.266
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of them, some of them, I cannot even, I cannot even fast forward through it.

52:19.286 --> 52:19.426
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

52:19.706 --> 52:21.667
[SPEAKER_00]: See, and on Netflix, if you watch live,

52:22.962 --> 52:33.031
[SPEAKER_00]: what you get is a screen with just random wrestlers appearing on it and we will be back soon, like scrolling across the bottom, like you don't even get the commercials.

52:33.331 --> 52:38.135
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd almost rather have commercials than what you get on Netflix and you don't get the action.

52:38.155 --> 52:40.517
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd rather have a video package, something, anything.

52:40.938 --> 52:43.420
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you watch it back, they just take that out.

52:43.940 --> 52:54.025
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I watched the the clash, it was I think two hours and four minutes is what was showing on Netflix and then when I skip through the entrances and stuff like I got through the shone about an hour and 20 minutes.

52:54.525 --> 53:01.048
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean for me, I mean it's totally different experience, but I was curious with I want to ask you because you watch it on ESPN.

53:01.888 --> 53:07.811
[SPEAKER_00]: When they do the thing where you have the two matches on free TV and then you have the three matches on only on the app.

53:08.271 --> 53:12.533
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it feel like the two matches are a pre show or does it feel like one big show.

53:14.417 --> 53:25.230
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like one big show, except for one thing, which is there's a banner at the bottom that says after this hour is over, you have to watch it.

53:25.430 --> 53:26.852
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so it's up to the whole time.

53:27.773 --> 53:29.555
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's up to the whole time, but it's very nice.

53:29.655 --> 53:34.356
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like when you have C does when they when they do like they do the same thing with the paper views.

53:34.716 --> 53:38.577
[SPEAKER_00]: They have the first two matches of the paper view on three TV sometimes.

53:38.917 --> 53:43.118
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the big three matches are on you have to switch over to Paramount Plus.

53:43.218 --> 53:44.098
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's probably the same thing.

53:44.378 --> 53:48.439
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll constantly say, you know, nine 9 PM Eastern on Paramount Plus.

53:48.459 --> 53:52.659
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll list the matches that are going to be on and sign in to your Paramount Plus app.

53:52.679 --> 53:54.980
[SPEAKER_00]: If you do not have it, you can sign up here and all this.

53:55.980 --> 54:06.186
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, this is probably less of a WWE thing than using ESPN thing, except what we know of is WWE.

54:07.507 --> 54:09.428
[SPEAKER_01]: Like to take advantage of the customer sometimes.

54:09.488 --> 54:14.231
[SPEAKER_01]: So it feels very much like it's their thing, but it's it's an ESPN thing.

54:15.171 --> 54:20.234
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but that is part of my frustration now if this product was hot and everything was flowing.

54:20.594 --> 54:24.737
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, maybe I just go to the bathroom and be okay with it, but

54:25.517 --> 54:30.501
[SPEAKER_01]: when it's not and when you're like unfulfilled, these commercials feel like they're 10 minutes long.

54:30.721 --> 54:35.945
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other company is just throwing content at you, just boom, boom, boom, you don't even have time to go to the bathroom.

54:36.325 --> 54:39.627
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you're, you know, and I, I kind of like something in the middle.

54:40.308 --> 54:41.388
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, totally.

54:41.548 --> 54:42.589
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I had to do one thing,

54:43.790 --> 54:49.456
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, seven or eight matches three and a half hours and make this thing cook and I'm good.

54:49.796 --> 54:54.841
[SPEAKER_00]: If I had to choose one or the other and the cost was the same, I would choose the AW version.

54:54.961 --> 54:56.563
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure, you know, for sure.

54:56.623 --> 55:07.274
[SPEAKER_01]: And look, and people think that this is like a not have people who know us know that we're pretty in the middle on both companies, but I'm not an AW fanboy.

55:09.544 --> 55:11.364
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the opposite of what an A.W.

55:11.564 --> 55:12.104
[SPEAKER_01]: fanboy is.

55:12.124 --> 55:13.525
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the opposite of an A.W.

55:13.585 --> 55:14.205
[SPEAKER_01]: You sicko.

55:14.465 --> 55:19.666
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that is not constantly of being a fed-head, and fed-pilled in all this.

55:19.706 --> 55:21.886
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, do you actually listen to what I say?

55:21.926 --> 55:23.447
[SPEAKER_00]: Like ever, you know?

55:23.607 --> 55:33.188
[SPEAKER_01]: And, but when you talk about this, you have to be fair and balanced in what you're talking about.

55:33.928 --> 55:36.429
[SPEAKER_01]: And when bloodline is on fire,

55:38.037 --> 55:54.317
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about how, wow, like, just look at how many people are there and and these angles, like, you know, sometimes the matches were still not the best matches, but look at these angles, Roman Reigns and Sammy Zane, like that thing went over time over time and yet people were just like,

55:55.381 --> 55:58.444
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, you know, we got some culmination to this thing.

55:58.905 --> 56:02.868
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people on the other end were like, gosh, they really lengthen that thing out.

56:03.009 --> 56:10.576
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, you know, when they're doing things well, you discuss some Cody and Roman at WrestleMania in Philly.

56:11.357 --> 56:13.499
[SPEAKER_01]: Fantastic moment.

56:13.659 --> 56:15.941
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, wow, that felt like

56:17.012 --> 56:29.697
[SPEAKER_01]: this long storyline and you get to the end of it and you feel like it's a fulfilling storyline versus what we've been getting, which is just like turn turned to calendar because we got to go to the next thing.

56:29.877 --> 56:41.581
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll go back a year and you talk about Philly like when when Cody lost at Mania like you remember all the people criticizing and both like then you would hear people know just you know what like think about it for

56:45.245 --> 56:48.330
[SPEAKER_00]: and Cody wins next year, how big is it going to be?

56:48.871 --> 56:52.997
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where you saw the people that, okay, they're just hating because they don't like WWE.

56:53.318 --> 56:55.061
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't matter how successful it is.

56:55.461 --> 56:58.666
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you see the people like now, we had faith back then.

56:59.997 --> 57:01.878
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody's got that faith in Triple H now.

57:02.198 --> 57:04.419
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, no, no, we're out waiting till next year.

57:04.459 --> 57:06.580
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to see something now because you know what?

57:06.720 --> 57:09.922
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we've said wait till the next show for the last three years.

57:10.702 --> 57:12.383
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the problem with all these shows.

57:12.423 --> 57:13.163
[SPEAKER_00]: And we talked about it.

57:13.503 --> 57:17.645
[SPEAKER_00]: And the end you said, what's the difference between the Triple H show and the clash show?

57:18.026 --> 57:20.787
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, on the Triple H show, we got a story.

57:21.147 --> 57:22.207
[SPEAKER_00]: We got a build.

57:22.528 --> 57:22.988
[SPEAKER_00]: We got

57:24.048 --> 57:48.947
[SPEAKER_00]: logical match that played into the story and we got a conclusion and even got yeah We got a payoff and we even got progression beyond the payoff because after the match was over You had Chad Gable do that speech and now all of a sudden Chad gave us a baby face to this audience and you're like whoa What's next for him and what's next for for Kaiser, you know, I called them a mayor of Kaiser You know what's next for him we don't know

57:49.507 --> 57:51.488
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, something, I mean, he's the hottest guy there.

57:51.788 --> 57:54.708
[SPEAKER_00]: They've done nothing with him, right?

57:55.249 --> 57:57.109
[SPEAKER_00]: And Dom, yeah, Dom wasn't even on the show.

57:57.509 --> 57:59.690
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like one of the biggest stars that they have.

57:59.810 --> 58:02.790
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm, you know, your curious is what's gonna happen?

58:02.830 --> 58:09.232
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas we come out of the clash and it's like, I don't care where they're going next because I don't, none of it is anything I want to see.

58:10.312 --> 58:11.793
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the problem right now.

58:11.853 --> 58:13.553
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, oh, we're gonna get Brock and Ober again.

58:13.653 --> 58:13.973
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

58:14.213 --> 58:15.634
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna get Cody and Gunther again.

58:15.814 --> 58:16.194
[SPEAKER_00]: Super.

58:16.634 --> 58:19.276
[SPEAKER_00]: we're building to Roman and Jacob again.

58:19.756 --> 58:23.298
[SPEAKER_00]: We know we are, like, I don't know when it's going to happen, you know, we're in the sixth inning now.

58:23.358 --> 58:26.821
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, like, maybe three years we'll get Roman and Jacob again.

58:26.841 --> 58:33.625
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's, they're just, do, you know, and WrestleMania should have been the culmination, and it was actually more like the kickoff.

58:34.165 --> 58:34.385
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

58:34.666 --> 58:35.026
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

58:35.246 --> 58:35.846
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the problem.

58:36.407 --> 58:38.488
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so where are we today?

58:38.648 --> 58:44.292
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, finally, at the end of 2025, they start to bring these folks up

58:48.346 --> 58:58.932
[SPEAKER_01]: Just from Sunday and Monday, yet Oberfemi, they're young rising Bill Goldberg like star,

59:14.583 --> 59:24.729
[SPEAKER_01]: lose to 40 some odd year old Seth Rollins on back to back shows and you're telling me that we have to pay attention to these guys.

59:25.869 --> 59:26.730
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just wait.

59:27.130 --> 59:28.171
[SPEAKER_00]: They got the moment coming.

59:29.071 --> 59:29.831
[SPEAKER_00]: Change in the business.

59:31.773 --> 59:35.074
[SPEAKER_01]: You know there there is something to that.

59:35.134 --> 59:37.015
[SPEAKER_01]: They're definitely is something to waiting.

59:37.456 --> 59:37.796
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's

59:40.024 --> 59:55.033
[SPEAKER_01]: when you are anticipating and when you're looking forward to the next thing, when you watch something and it makes you frustrated that you spent the time because you thought something was going to happen and then you have to wait more.

59:55.714 --> 01:00:00.657
[SPEAKER_01]: More than likely, I'm going to be less excited about it than more excited.

01:00:00.757 --> 01:00:02.258
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, for what I do,

01:00:03.118 --> 01:00:04.381
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to watch the next show.

01:00:05.162 --> 01:00:07.667
[SPEAKER_01]: I may not watch SmackDown every week, but I'm going to watch raw.

01:00:07.687 --> 01:00:09.210
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to watch the PLEs.

01:00:09.570 --> 01:00:10.171
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be there.

01:00:11.734 --> 01:00:13.598
[SPEAKER_01]: If I didn't have to do this content,

01:00:15.010 --> 01:00:24.781
[SPEAKER_01]: I might, at this point, I might be a PLE guy, and that's it, or just a raw guy, and that's it's actually fine.

01:00:24.821 --> 01:00:33.471
[SPEAKER_01]: The raw shows more entertaining than the PLEs generally, and then on the AEW side, they're doing really well right now.

01:00:34.949 --> 01:00:36.550
[SPEAKER_01]: I may not agree with all the booking.

01:00:36.670 --> 01:00:39.012
[SPEAKER_01]: I may not agree with all the violence.

01:00:39.252 --> 01:00:47.518
[SPEAKER_01]: I may not agree with some of the decision making, but at the end of the day, you go, well, what Tony did, did it work or did it not?

01:00:48.798 --> 01:00:53.361
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's got a good hit record right now for it working.

01:00:53.622 --> 01:00:55.763
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to give him that credit.

01:00:57.423 --> 01:01:11.731
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, do I like the booking for the sickles not not always is not for me, but if it works in the long run and they're actually making more money because of this Darby run, which I think was a big part of that that the max match.

01:01:13.072 --> 01:01:26.820
[SPEAKER_01]: Just Darby getting over to that level, which I was like, I'm not sure this is a good idea because I don't want to pull max down, but instead they they they they they may Darby go higher and they kept max higher and then they finally met and

01:01:27.815 --> 01:01:29.216
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people were really interested in that.

01:01:29.236 --> 01:01:33.320
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, yeah, and I was on the record of saying, I thought it was a bad idea, and I was wrong.

01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:35.021
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was, I was too.

01:01:35.201 --> 01:01:37.403
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, you know, I was like, why are they doing this?

01:01:37.423 --> 01:01:43.388
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Max just feels like he's the hottest guy, but if we go back to what we were just saying about

01:01:44.129 --> 01:01:51.537
[SPEAKER_01]: The current WWE is if something is working, they don't want it to stop because they want to write it out.

01:01:51.878 --> 01:01:59.266
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas, maybe if something's working, you can get something else to work at the same time because there's a heightened, uh, there's eyeballs on it.

01:01:59.566 --> 01:02:01.328
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think they're all things over.

01:02:01.709 --> 01:02:04.712
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there was a way to do the Brock Oba match.

01:02:05.493 --> 01:02:15.959
[SPEAKER_00]: where you could have even had your third match and not hurt Oba, and they didn't do it because I think no matter what, like I think it hurt Oba, like to lose to Brock.

01:02:15.979 --> 01:02:24.183
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the thing is, and the problem is, is Brock was the baby face by the end of that match, and to that crowd, and that's not what you want.

01:02:24.883 --> 01:02:32.347
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and then when they go to Minneapolis, like he's going to be the baby face there, too, and Oba is the guy that you're trying to build for the next 10 years.

01:02:33.568 --> 01:02:46.861
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to give a shout out to our guy Brian Zillam because he had a creative thought that I was like, this is an awful idea and you are worse than what they're doing right now.

01:02:47.061 --> 01:02:49.363
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I say that I say that to him.

01:02:50.104 --> 01:03:03.886
[SPEAKER_01]: with nothing but love because I'm a big fan of his Brian Zillam the human, but you know, his WWE takes are often more about WWE the bad company than kind of what's going on, at least how I feel.

01:03:04.307 --> 01:03:07.427
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a bit of that and it's also a bit of he really likes a WWE.

01:03:07.687 --> 01:03:08.287
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

01:03:08.427 --> 01:03:09.887
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's a smart dude.

01:03:09.907 --> 01:03:11.808
[SPEAKER_01]: So he can, you know, he can have all this

01:03:18.822 --> 01:03:20.826
[SPEAKER_01]: and then Brock is the champion by then.

01:03:20.846 --> 01:03:21.587
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like,

01:03:22.423 --> 01:03:24.443
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

01:03:24.904 --> 01:03:28.324
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, Ober went out and won his first game.

01:03:28.464 --> 01:03:29.145
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I don't know.

01:03:29.905 --> 01:03:32.905
[SPEAKER_00]: I, okay, so I saw your comment in the discord.

01:03:32.985 --> 01:03:36.686
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't actually see his because I was trying to like stay spoiler free.

01:03:37.266 --> 01:03:40.847
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will say when I was watching, I haven't finished.

01:03:41.427 --> 01:03:43.388
[SPEAKER_00]: I only saw the first half of that match.

01:03:43.668 --> 01:03:45.708
[SPEAKER_00]: I took it to the commercial break and then I had the positive show.

01:03:46.089 --> 01:03:47.229
[SPEAKER_00]: I assumed Ober was going to win.

01:03:48.089 --> 01:03:49.749
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at these brackets and I'm like,

01:03:52.764 --> 01:03:53.689
[SPEAKER_00]: Winning the king of the rain?

01:03:53.710 --> 01:03:54.514
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that makes sense.

01:03:55.461 --> 01:03:57.122
[SPEAKER_00]: He's getting a title shot at Summerslam.

01:03:57.262 --> 01:03:58.142
[SPEAKER_00]: It's him Minneapolis.

01:03:58.662 --> 01:03:59.822
[SPEAKER_00]: Would have brought wind's a title.

01:04:00.163 --> 01:04:01.903
[SPEAKER_00]: That thought actually popped into my head.

01:04:02.503 --> 01:04:06.685
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I thought, I wonder if that's the thought Brian had that Gert said was stupid.

01:04:08.505 --> 01:04:23.170
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she said, so I'm not now I understand what he was thinking because of the way that they set up these brackets where if Obo was going to lose a match in this king of the ring tournament, it would be this first one because there's three other guys who could take a pinfall.

01:04:23.750 --> 01:04:27.532
[SPEAKER_01]: But now I think we're getting one on one matches from here on out, right?

01:04:27.772 --> 01:04:27.952
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:04:28.132 --> 01:04:31.514
[SPEAKER_00]: So the semi finals are one on one and then the finals are one on one.

01:04:31.594 --> 01:04:33.174
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's got to be the favorite.

01:04:33.294 --> 01:04:36.376
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't see him losing a pinfall match to anybody else in this tournament.

01:04:37.236 --> 01:04:41.558
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, you know, so that means he wins and then who's he going to face?

01:04:42.098 --> 01:04:43.119
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to be Roman?

01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:43.539
[SPEAKER_00]: No.

01:04:44.359 --> 01:04:45.260
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to be Cody?

01:04:45.340 --> 01:04:45.640
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe?

01:04:47.034 --> 01:04:52.400
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he faces Cody on night one wins a title and then defend it against Brock on night two.

01:04:53.041 --> 01:05:04.953
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's exactly what Brian Alvarez said on really well he didn't say Cody necessarily, but that was that was his theory okay and Dave gave him the well, they're not going to do that.

01:05:07.536 --> 01:05:19.403
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I had that idea like a month ago and I may have even mentioned in our show and then I just kind of didn't think about it again till now and literally just come up with the idea You know, Brian and I often think like almost exactly the same though.

01:05:19.903 --> 01:05:23.525
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll raise your talking about yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what you're talking about right Brian Albert.

01:05:23.545 --> 01:05:23.665
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:05:23.925 --> 01:05:24.286
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:05:24.546 --> 01:05:28.628
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like oftentimes I'll hear something Brian said and it'll be like I'll send him it.

01:05:28.989 --> 01:05:34.212
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll take a screenshot of the discord and I'll send it to them and I was like I literally said this exact same thing like two days ago

01:05:35.352 --> 01:05:36.333
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you just let it know.

01:05:37.033 --> 01:05:38.434
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's it's crazy.

01:05:39.495 --> 01:05:40.735
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, all right.

01:05:40.775 --> 01:05:43.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, peak WWE there.

01:05:43.557 --> 01:05:47.499
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they I think we can actually say they are not peak.

01:05:47.739 --> 01:05:49.320
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not creatively for sure.

01:05:49.400 --> 01:05:50.441
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't know about business.

01:05:50.481 --> 01:05:53.142
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they may still be pretty high on business.

01:05:53.182 --> 01:05:54.103
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Dave said.

01:05:55.031 --> 01:06:02.913
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they're around, you know, when they were at their hottest, they were doing like 12 or 13,000 every show and now they're about 9 or 10.

01:06:03.334 --> 01:06:03.554
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:06:03.594 --> 01:06:04.594
[SPEAKER_01]: But what are they doing?

01:06:04.634 --> 01:06:05.354
[SPEAKER_00]: What do they do?

01:06:05.634 --> 01:06:06.755
[SPEAKER_00]: But what are they doing for gates?

01:06:07.295 --> 01:06:11.156
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll bet you the gates are higher at 9 and 10, and they were at 12 or 13.

01:06:11.656 --> 01:06:13.717
[SPEAKER_01]: And that they all they care about.

01:06:14.357 --> 01:06:18.079
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't, yeah, I don't know if that's actually feasible.

01:06:18.099 --> 01:06:19.020
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:06:19.100 --> 01:06:25.884
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, it could be feasible for them to be even because that would just mean that they were raised to ticket prices.

01:06:26.164 --> 01:06:27.245
[SPEAKER_00]: Which we know that they have.

01:06:27.765 --> 01:06:31.608
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like we, you know that gate, that WrestleMania gate will be interesting because we're going to get it.

01:06:32.888 --> 01:06:37.430
[SPEAKER_00]: And they do as much money with 10,000 less people in the building or not.

01:06:38.230 --> 01:06:38.670
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

01:06:39.491 --> 01:06:41.932
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people think, yes, I'm questioning it.

01:06:41.952 --> 01:06:45.873
[SPEAKER_00]: But if they did, then yeah, this may not be a business decline.

01:06:45.893 --> 01:06:47.093
[SPEAKER_00]: The way they're going to look at it.

01:06:47.473 --> 01:06:50.975
[SPEAKER_00]: Now the way we look at it, TV ratings, ticket sales.

01:06:51.895 --> 01:06:55.017
[SPEAKER_00]: down, down, creative is down.

01:06:55.117 --> 01:06:57.419
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's no question they're not at their creative peak.

01:06:57.479 --> 01:07:03.484
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think there's anybody that would say where wrong is a WWE fanboy, you know?

01:07:03.664 --> 01:07:07.186
[SPEAKER_00]: And even the WWE fanboys are not really buying some of this stuff.

01:07:07.487 --> 01:07:10.109
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of those WWE fanboys are gone.

01:07:10.529 --> 01:07:10.829
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:07:11.049 --> 01:07:11.490
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:07:11.550 --> 01:07:18.195
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, some of them are still there, obviously, but I don't, I like, I don't want to make fun of anybody,

01:07:22.037 --> 01:07:29.163
[SPEAKER_01]: there was like, I don't, I don't even want to give a number of how many people reached out to me and said, oh my god, this is so awesome.

01:07:29.223 --> 01:07:31.705
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, this actually sucks.

01:07:31.805 --> 01:07:34.007
[SPEAKER_01]: And they vehemently argued with me.

01:07:35.107 --> 01:07:43.394
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, you know, I don't mean to just sit on this point just to sit on like, I don't want to be necessarily an argumentative about it.

01:07:44.014 --> 01:07:45.496
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was just so down on it.

01:07:46.416 --> 01:07:48.638
[SPEAKER_01]: And those same people who were like,

01:07:51.432 --> 01:07:54.774
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not really around right now, or they're like very casual.

01:07:55.314 --> 01:08:01.557
[SPEAKER_01]: So they were here for a short time and didn't, you know, they didn't really stick around.

01:08:01.637 --> 01:08:09.521
[SPEAKER_01]: So that is my own, they probably check back in for that Saturday, Arena Mexico show, and everybody's watching that.

01:08:09.841 --> 01:08:12.982
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my own data on that, you know, not necessarily too.

01:08:13.002 --> 01:08:13.603
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I hear you.

01:08:13.763 --> 01:08:14.123
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear you.

01:08:14.779 --> 01:08:24.192
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, that was a long one, but oh, man, that was I think we had anything to talk about today and I had to get that off my chest because

01:08:25.208 --> 01:08:32.951
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so, I was frustrated, but I was also frustrated because this is what I was sensing coming into this show.

01:08:33.131 --> 01:08:35.811
[SPEAKER_01]: And I go back and listen to Jessica's already on Friday.

01:08:36.392 --> 01:08:38.712
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was sensing and it actually happened.

01:08:38.732 --> 01:08:41.113
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't want to, I wanted that show to be great.

01:08:41.253 --> 01:08:46.235
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted them to kind of go, okay, we figured this thing out where we're a little flat,

01:08:46.875 --> 01:08:47.975
[SPEAKER_01]: boom, we're back.

01:08:48.055 --> 01:08:51.476
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, no, honestly, it was worse than what you thought.

01:08:52.176 --> 01:08:53.857
[SPEAKER_00]: And it made it looked even worse.

01:08:53.897 --> 01:08:54.857
[SPEAKER_00]: And we didn't even talk about this.

01:08:54.877 --> 01:08:56.157
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we can talk about it next week.

01:08:56.237 --> 01:09:01.679
[SPEAKER_00]: But about how how AAA like just completely owned them.

01:09:02.899 --> 01:09:07.640
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, and that, you know, and you brought up the comparison to NXT, you know, 10 years ago.

01:09:08.261 --> 01:09:10.001
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's interesting topic.

01:09:10.021 --> 01:09:12.642
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe we can talk about it next week because we don't really have time to do today.

01:09:12.702 --> 01:09:12.822
[SPEAKER_00]: But

01:09:14.949 --> 01:09:15.129
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

01:09:15.489 --> 01:09:15.749
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.

01:09:16.230 --> 01:09:16.490
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

01:09:16.530 --> 01:09:16.970
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

01:09:17.390 --> 01:09:18.271
[SPEAKER_01]: That is it from here.

01:09:18.331 --> 01:09:19.832
[SPEAKER_01]: So four Paul.

01:09:19.852 --> 01:09:28.917
[SPEAKER_01]: I am double G. Shout out to Fernando as always who was hanging out with the side out that were some other live viewers, but Fernando was doing it was chatting it up.

01:09:29.457 --> 01:09:30.598
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

01:09:30.678 --> 01:09:33.520
[SPEAKER_01]: See you when we see you piece out.