Should Gunther Retire John Cena! & Can Moxley's Face Turn Work? | Takedown

WEBVTT

00:10.055 --> 00:17.000
[SPEAKER_00]: after a few weeks off, we are back with takedown and we're back with a slight adjustment to the format as well.

00:17.863 --> 00:20.031
[SPEAKER_00]: I told Paul the other day, I was like, you know what, let's just

00:20.551 --> 00:22.294
[SPEAKER_00]: talk about like one big thing.

00:22.836 --> 00:27.906
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about some other stuff in the beginning of the show and we'll use it kind of as the beginning of the week.

00:27.926 --> 00:32.114
[SPEAKER_00]: We record this on Monday afternoon now for podcasts folks.

00:32.154 --> 00:39.769
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't go up until Monday evening, but I think it's a nice little jump off to the week because there's as we've been saying forever.

00:39.789 --> 00:42.154
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so much stuff going on.

00:42.134 --> 00:45.383
[SPEAKER_00]: that it can be overwhelming at times.

00:45.443 --> 00:51.339
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had my moments on Saturday night trying to get Dave to start dressing up to Viradio.

00:51.379 --> 00:53.585
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I got to be up so early.

00:53.605 --> 00:55.871
[SPEAKER_00]: And this this thing is driving me nuts.

00:55.931 --> 00:57.194
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're here.

00:57.254 --> 00:58.658
[SPEAKER_00]: And so

00:59.465 --> 01:17.236
[SPEAKER_00]: We have one topic that we're going to hit on and have a little bit of a longer discussion on, which is the John Moxley, the kind of this, I think it's a slow burn, but Paul thinks it's maybe not so much a slow burn, but this John Moxley eventual baby face turns.

01:17.256 --> 01:20.021
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about that in detail in in depth.

01:21.103 --> 01:22.165
[SPEAKER_00]: First off, though,

01:23.056 --> 01:38.616
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you looking forward to most this week, like as you think about Monday, Monday is the start of the week for wrestling because I would say Sunday, but usually Sunday is the end because of how paper views sometimes work, but Monday's the kickoff raw happens later tonight.

01:38.676 --> 01:43.242
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know by the time people listen to this, they may have already watched raw, but we got raw.

01:43.913 --> 01:59.513
[SPEAKER_00]: Then NXT, then Dynamite, and then TNA, if you watch TNA, and then SmackDown, and then Collision, and then Saturday, I swear, so it just keeps going on and on and on.

01:59.533 --> 02:02.237
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is just five New Japan World shows as well.

02:02.637 --> 02:06.662
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, so let's do this in both ways.

02:07.163 --> 02:13.431
[SPEAKER_00]: What was your favorite thing that you watched last week?

02:14.069 --> 02:20.982
[SPEAKER_00]: favorite or kind of like, you know, most news, or whatever, and then we'll start with what are you looking forward to this week?

02:21.323 --> 02:31.643
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so, I mean, I, I'm still trying to make my way through the weekend stuff, and so the last thing I watch, I started watching the TNA show this morning.

02:31.663 --> 02:35.470
[SPEAKER_01]: So I still have TNA, ROH, NXT, and

02:35.450 --> 02:38.234
[SPEAKER_01]: and a couple of new Japan shows to watch.

02:38.755 --> 02:40.257
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, I'm so far behind.

02:40.718 --> 02:48.549
[SPEAKER_01]: But from what I actually watched, I would say I really, really liked SmackDown.

02:48.649 --> 02:55.098
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked the opening match and the closing match on SmackDown, especially Gunther and LA Knight, the finals at tournament.

02:55.579 --> 03:01.707
[SPEAKER_01]: And really, like, looking back on that tournament, like, I think it over-delivered, because I'm part of that, because I wasn't expecting much.

03:02.188 --> 03:03.550
[SPEAKER_01]: I still hated to hold.

03:03.530 --> 03:04.091
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

03:04.251 --> 03:04.872
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you did.

03:04.993 --> 03:11.164
[SPEAKER_01]: And you, you know, you gave the reasons why like just, you know, like they didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason why any people are in it.

03:11.484 --> 03:15.632
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, and no one said why they wanted to be in it when they were in it.

03:15.652 --> 03:16.674
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, not till the end.

03:16.994 --> 03:21.302
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, at the end, you kind of got that, you know, and I wish we would have had more of that through the tournament.

03:21.623 --> 03:27.293
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like Goenther and LA night both did good promos to explain why they wanted to win and why they wanted to match with Sina.

03:27.273 --> 03:42.721
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just talking about the actual match quality, which, you know, like obviously like the people in WWE are a lot of times better than they get credit for and sometimes they're not allowed to show how good they are, but they did get those opportunities in these matches.

03:42.761 --> 03:50.395
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would say that and then as well, I did, I wasn't going to get the ROH paper view and I like sell them watch it, but

03:50.375 --> 04:09.075
[SPEAKER_01]: on Friday, I got an email, one free month of ROH, and so it was like, you just had to claim ROH, and I came up with what the code was, but so I signed up, and then I watched the Thursday show, you know, and there's a really awesome match on that show, Beast Mortos and Commander.

04:09.055 --> 04:16.686
[SPEAKER_01]: which, I mean, you can just close your eyes and picture it and it was exactly what you think in 10 minutes of just insane spots.

04:16.706 --> 04:17.227
[SPEAKER_01]: It was great.

04:17.628 --> 04:24.077
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just kind of reminded me, because I'd see neither of those guys in a while, because I'm not watching ROH and they don't wrestle in AWS.

04:24.117 --> 04:26.861
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I kind of enjoyed that.

04:27.001 --> 04:32.970
[SPEAKER_01]: So those would be the best, but I still got a lot of good stuff to look forward to, like, in addition to all the stuff coming up this weekend.

04:32.950 --> 04:41.084
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll say that the AEW fans are probably going to roll their eyes because if you don't say Moxley and Ticket should it was the best thing you watched last week.

04:41.104 --> 04:42.346
[SPEAKER_00]: They're they're probably not.

04:42.386 --> 04:44.590
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying for me.

04:44.610 --> 04:44.710
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

04:44.830 --> 04:45.130
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

04:45.391 --> 04:50.700
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the best thing I watched was that women's iron survivor match.

04:51.361 --> 04:52.343
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

04:52.363 --> 04:52.523
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

04:52.543 --> 04:53.805
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was for that.

04:53.985 --> 04:54.807
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was awesome.

04:55.408 --> 04:58.553
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they they put on.

04:59.562 --> 05:10.132
[SPEAKER_00]: a match that makes you want to, you know, like this match works because it delivers and the next year you're like, oh man, I can looking forward to when they do it again.

05:11.173 --> 05:24.627
[SPEAKER_00]: All of the women, I would say, out of the women, maybe Jordan Grace got the least out of it, but everybody else was so on fire and got a ton out of it.

05:25.227 --> 05:26.008
[SPEAKER_00]: And then

05:26.613 --> 05:45.128
[SPEAKER_01]: you also create stars and in this match and so it was just the perfect thing I thought and so that's my pick for what we're going going in I mean the lineup for that women's match looked I mean better than the men's one the men's one was still good but yeah I don't see a scene I made some good picks like I'm sure he picked them

05:45.108 --> 05:58.172
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, what are you looking forward to this obviously the scene of thing, but I mean dynamite is really loaded on Wednesday The you know the winners coming here coming yeah, we got the hangman 80 Kingston

05:58.338 --> 06:12.140
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's the booking, the interviews, I've actually convinced myself that Eddie has a chance to win, which is probably stupid on my part, but I just think that if anybody could win a title and lose it like three weeks later, it's Joe.

06:13.001 --> 06:18.771
[SPEAKER_01]: And just to give Eddie that, like Mick Foley, World title win, and maybe he loses it to returning M.J.F.

06:19.291 --> 06:22.116
[SPEAKER_01]: Like right away, but just to say, Eddie came to win.

06:22.456 --> 06:24.159
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of convinced myself that he might win.

06:24.219 --> 06:25.341
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's that.

06:25.321 --> 06:29.046
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I ask Moxley that on air like two years ago?

06:29.306 --> 06:29.667
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

06:29.687 --> 06:32.210
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had a good idea of the two years ago.

06:32.230 --> 06:33.091
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we are again.

06:33.111 --> 06:33.311
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

06:33.331 --> 06:39.920
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you've got the women's tag team title tournament finals coming on winners coming as well.

06:40.641 --> 06:43.644
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Hangman and Swerve, I assume, although I didn't see collision.

06:43.725 --> 06:48.971
[SPEAKER_01]: So I know Swerve was on collision, but I didn't, I don't know if he confirmed that he's Hangman's partner or not.

06:48.991 --> 06:49.252
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

06:49.272 --> 06:49.452
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

06:49.472 --> 06:50.333
[SPEAKER_01]: They made the match.

06:50.313 --> 06:51.134
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's that.

06:51.274 --> 06:52.416
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a loaded show.

06:52.696 --> 06:57.904
[SPEAKER_01]: And then even the Saturday collision from Cardiff, you know, those crowds are always nuts.

06:58.485 --> 06:59.426
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's going to be fun.

06:59.947 --> 07:01.288
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the scene I show.

07:01.429 --> 07:04.473
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm looking for it all the way to if I had to only pick one that I could watch.

07:05.094 --> 07:15.028
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, we'd be the scene that because that's, you know, that's like a once not a once in a lifetime, but once every couple years kind of special show, you know, that, you know, you're not going to get to see.

07:15.348 --> 07:16.590
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm really curious.

07:16.570 --> 07:26.293
[SPEAKER_01]: Not so much the match, even though the match I'm sure is going to be great, but I want to see what they do and what do you think they could what do you think they do I don't know like I was thinking like okay who's going to be there.

07:26.645 --> 07:29.729
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people are, you know, people are talking about Vincent Trump, and I'm talking about that.

07:29.790 --> 07:32.754
[SPEAKER_01]: But, like, will they get angle there?

07:32.834 --> 07:34.376
[SPEAKER_01]: I think angle, I think that's a given.

07:34.737 --> 07:36.339
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be under taker.

07:36.619 --> 07:37.941
[SPEAKER_01]: I think would probably have to be there.

07:38.622 --> 07:40.204
[SPEAKER_01]: Do they get Petista?

07:40.224 --> 07:43.209
[SPEAKER_01]: I know he's probably filming a movie somewhere, but could they get him for one night?

07:43.569 --> 07:47.575
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because do you think you think he would want to work with them at this point?

07:47.755 --> 07:48.516
[SPEAKER_00]: Based on, I don't know.

07:48.897 --> 07:50.820
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know politics versus their politics.

07:50.880 --> 07:51.881
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know his politics.

07:52.041 --> 07:54.525
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, his politics are,

07:54.505 --> 07:56.439
[SPEAKER_00]: completely opposite of day.

07:56.500 --> 07:59.200
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but he's still tight with triple H isn't he?

07:59.922 --> 08:01.123
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't I don't hope so.

08:01.143 --> 08:01.444
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

08:01.504 --> 08:09.273
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I just think you have the privilege hanging out with our have that just to be on the front row and chasing his hand, you know, something like that.

08:09.653 --> 08:10.935
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is there career rivals?

08:10.995 --> 08:12.397
[SPEAKER_01]: It's great for him.

08:12.677 --> 08:14.479
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, would be nice to see Sean.

08:15.060 --> 08:20.286
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, just some of his career rivals, you know, whether it's JBL, I think is probably a given.

08:20.346 --> 08:26.233
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care one way or the other, but Rick Rick was supposed to be on AW.

08:26.213 --> 08:26.774
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care.

08:26.994 --> 08:30.779
[SPEAKER_00]: He's always picked up Rick John Cena's like the man.

08:31.139 --> 08:31.640
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah.

08:31.660 --> 08:32.521
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, that's true.

08:32.621 --> 08:35.425
[SPEAKER_01]: When when he broke the record, he gave him his blessing in all caps.

08:38.268 --> 08:46.939
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, no, I mean, so that's why I'm interested in almost more than and then to see like again, you know, we had some ideas we threw around the discord about what they could do.

08:46.919 --> 09:06.430
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and, and you know, in your idea was probably the safest, you know, and probably the most likely, honestly, you know, having code, you know, but close the show, but when they announced that scene was opening, I thought, well, how are you going to follow that, you know, and then, and then like have close the show, like you got kind of have to close the show with like a send off.

09:06.951 --> 09:14.563
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe they do something after the first match to set up something for the main event that involves scene like what, okay, what if.

09:15.725 --> 09:18.109
[SPEAKER_00]: All of the things you said about who can be at this show.

09:18.509 --> 09:19.130
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

09:19.150 --> 09:20.592
[SPEAKER_00]: What if they save that for the end?

09:21.554 --> 09:21.754
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

09:21.834 --> 09:34.372
[SPEAKER_00]: What if at the end he comes triple agent, it brings him back and then Kurt Engel comes out and Randy Orton comes out and all the folks who who you would want to see, I think that would be a fantastic way to go out.

09:35.774 --> 09:40.922
[SPEAKER_00]: Though does he beat Gunther or does he lose to Gunther?

09:41.678 --> 09:46.587
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I, that's the question and I'm sure if it was up to John, he'd want to lose.

09:47.710 --> 09:55.705
[SPEAKER_00]: And if it was up, if you're listening to anything that John says in the media, if it is up to John,

09:56.005 --> 10:12.723
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't give a shit because he is just a hired gun right and he just follows directions right which can be completely emotionless about this well that doesn't surprise me because man Those interviews things they show like I know they're trying to sell you on watching that thing but oh my god, he's a robot.

10:13.083 --> 10:21.692
[SPEAKER_01]: I there is not a thing I want to watch less like if you ask me what are you least looking like there's no way I'm watching that thing because I mean he just sits there.

10:21.757 --> 10:22.398
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

10:22.418 --> 10:26.143
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you're talking about that YouTube interview that you're promoting.

10:26.163 --> 10:26.623
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

10:26.643 --> 10:28.105
[SPEAKER_00]: I came back at the World Rumble.

10:28.185 --> 10:32.992
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so that stuff is actually back and actually like that stuff, really?

10:33.652 --> 10:37.718
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he'd never talks about it, right?

10:37.798 --> 10:39.500
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he never talks about any of this stuff.

10:39.720 --> 10:45.648
[SPEAKER_00]: The stuff that I'm talking about is the main stream media that he was on the Bill Simmons podcast.

10:45.668 --> 10:46.409
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I heard about that.

10:46.749 --> 10:51.055
[SPEAKER_00]: And the whole thing was about how.

10:51.389 --> 11:02.503
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Bill is, egging him on, like just trying to get him to say something and Bill's like, well, you know, it looks like you're going out on your own terms with this retirement.

11:02.563 --> 11:03.365
[SPEAKER_00]: John's like, no.

11:04.105 --> 11:11.876
[SPEAKER_00]: Bill's up to me, I'd rustle forever, but my body's shutting down and, you know, and he's like, I'm not going out on my own terms.

11:11.916 --> 11:19.185
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't wanna stop, but I have to stop because my body's telling me to stop and so then at the end of the podcast, Bill's like, well, I'm happy for you.

11:19.553 --> 11:24.379
[SPEAKER_00]: You're able to go out on your own terms like, no, I'm not going to have to turn it in the podcast.

11:24.719 --> 11:44.363
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's trying to like, you know, he's so, he's so we see he's such a robot, but within that again, it's just about how I've never said anything about who I wanted to face, who I want to do, whether I wanted to win or lose, and then I talked to Dave about he's like, oh, yeah, he completely kind of Bosch the nexus thing.

11:44.545 --> 11:47.248
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, well, you know, that story's been out there.

11:48.089 --> 11:49.711
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't hear as much about it.

11:49.791 --> 11:55.077
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, the famous one is like Stone Cold Steve Austin, not wanting to work with Jeff Jarrett.

11:55.117 --> 11:55.978
[SPEAKER_00]: We heard that stuff.

11:56.219 --> 11:57.941
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't really hear that about John much.

11:58.261 --> 12:01.445
[SPEAKER_00]: So he does feel a little bit more like the hired gun kind of guy.

12:02.025 --> 12:06.891
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I do wonder what he probably doesn't care because

12:07.647 --> 12:34.903
[SPEAKER_00]: he's he's moving on and he's doing his his stuff and it doesn't matter like if he loses to gunther doesn't affect his movie whether not to movie opens better or worse piecemaker you know any of that but as you know i've been talking to john the rock about this for feels like forever now and i'm like okay what do you think should john winner lose he's like nope gunther should win and then just last week i said okay what do you think now

12:35.390 --> 12:46.120
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I guess he was watching SmackDown and they said something about Gunther, uh, and which made John think that maybe Sina is winning.

12:46.501 --> 12:47.501
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know.

12:47.541 --> 12:51.045
[SPEAKER_01]: So what happened was Gunther did a promo before the match.

12:51.305 --> 12:54.648
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, you know, like, oh, we can't see you, but you can see me.

12:55.069 --> 12:59.853
[SPEAKER_01]: So watch me beat LA night and particularly watch the way I beat LA night.

13:00.374 --> 13:02.916
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he beat him with the STF view.

13:02.896 --> 13:09.633
[SPEAKER_01]: And then after the match, he says to the camera, this is your future, like basically telling him this is how I'm going to beat you.

13:10.375 --> 13:17.412
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, I mean, that's a perfect setup for him to put John Cena in that move and then Cena gets out and then submits Gunther.

13:17.560 --> 13:22.608
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you've got Gunther now, two big matches this year's tapping out, which is a story.

13:23.029 --> 13:27.596
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, everyone else, you know, was thinking in the other way, and I'm sure John was thinking the other way as well.

13:28.177 --> 13:29.118
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you're going to have him.

13:29.158 --> 13:30.360
[SPEAKER_01]: He retired Goldberg.

13:30.380 --> 13:31.302
[SPEAKER_01]: He retired Cena.

13:31.322 --> 13:32.584
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe next year he retired AJ.

13:33.245 --> 13:35.388
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is, oh, no, he gives up.

13:35.428 --> 13:39.254
[SPEAKER_01]: This is kind of almost like the moxie story, you know, like submitting in the big moments.

13:39.775 --> 13:42.319
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe that's the story with Gunther.

13:42.299 --> 13:47.588
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if he gives up on Saturday and I don't think I don't think it hurts doing through at all.

13:48.329 --> 13:55.120
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a side of folks who are like good they're good now be the new legend killer and I think I forgot where I think I asked Dave.

13:55.140 --> 13:56.923
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, and then he could retire AJ.

13:57.323 --> 14:02.772
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then, you know, Or you can then you got Orton coming up, you know, you can have that thing.

14:02.954 --> 14:06.680
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, somebody, somebody reached out to me.

14:06.700 --> 14:14.212
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, seen a should win, and then I kind of mentioned the, the, the, the Gunther thing, and he was like, Gunther is just Gunther.

14:14.332 --> 14:15.654
[SPEAKER_00]: What is he need a gimmick for?

14:15.695 --> 14:16.536
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just great.

14:16.776 --> 14:18.699
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's the kind of the idea too.

14:18.719 --> 14:21.604
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but I am more and more leaning towards.

14:21.584 --> 14:39.475
[SPEAKER_00]: seen a needing to win this match not needing like I think it just be a much better thing for the fans who are not only paying those incredible prices for those tickets but it would nicely cap off this story which started with him losing the role rumble to J.U.S.O.

14:39.455 --> 14:46.965
[SPEAKER_00]: then he won the elimination chamber and he turned heel, won the title, lost the title, won the intercontinental champion, put Dom over.

14:47.306 --> 15:02.147
[SPEAKER_00]: And this person also said that if he does beat Goetheur, Dom could run with the idea that he was the last person to ever beat John Cena as a thing with his current character, which would be, I think it's a really good idea too, if they do.

15:02.227 --> 15:05.952
[SPEAKER_01]: And that can lead into, you know, I'm sure eventually he's going to retire Ray.

15:06.505 --> 15:17.212
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so then I think having seen a win, it just, it's that feel good moment to end the year, debitivities, year, in a sense.

15:17.873 --> 15:23.788
[SPEAKER_00]: And then at the end, you get this retirement stuff and that's just real good, like when do you ever feel

15:23.768 --> 15:46.603
[SPEAKER_00]: like so much goodness coming out of a WWE show it's rare because so much of it is about heat heat heat heat heat same with a w by the way though there have been really good moments like that sting one that I always bring up for when sting retired I was like that's that's one of the best moments I've ever watched in professional wrestling in my lifetime you could do the same thing with John Cena and make it this great moment

15:46.583 --> 16:03.946
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and if if Gunther wins for a business reason, if now Gunther now it places Gunther in the echelon is in one of the main events at WrestleMania, I also understand that, but I'm going to forget about this if Gunther wins much more sooner than I will if seen a wins.

16:04.466 --> 16:14.920
[SPEAKER_01]: Cena wins and then go and then they can use that to lead into Gunther's next feud, you know, whoever that's going to be, it can be part of the reason he might be motivated by losing

16:15.170 --> 16:24.425
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and then the other guy could be, you know, could eventually even set up a Gunther face turn, you know, to where like a heel is ride them because he lost a scene.

16:24.445 --> 16:28.471
[SPEAKER_00]: So have you been spoiled with the other matches that are going to be on that show?

16:28.751 --> 16:29.693
[SPEAKER_00]: We have two.

16:29.893 --> 16:37.485
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought, well, I mean, Bailey and Solruco, they not sounds back down and then Cody and Oba.

16:37.585 --> 16:39.268
[SPEAKER_01]: And then those are the only two I know.

16:39.308 --> 16:41.852
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the only two that I know of, though, they're with the story.

16:42.406 --> 16:48.693
[SPEAKER_00]: that Leon Slater may have canceled some bookings this week, which made people think that he may be at Saturday nights made a bit.

16:49.073 --> 17:02.307
[SPEAKER_01]: Let be cool if they did like, you know, maybe like an extivision title match on that show, like I could be John Cena saying, you know, hey, you know, like that that we want to showcase the young stars and maybe you do like him and Javon back.

17:02.327 --> 17:03.809
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

17:04.049 --> 17:04.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

17:04.590 --> 17:06.912
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or or have them do a tag team matching.

17:06.892 --> 17:17.187
[SPEAKER_01]: you know against the tag team, you know champions or something or like it's it's so is there something you know like yeah man I just said that no, yeah, as soon as I said it was all man that'd be great.

17:17.868 --> 17:28.343
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, our motor city machine guns or something Yeah, like somebody could just have a great match with So yeah, I'm looking forward to that this weekend as well extra power too, right?

17:29.875 --> 17:32.399
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what, why don't they even have a time limit on that show?

17:32.459 --> 17:36.945
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, but they went, like, last time they went off the air, like right at two hours.

17:37.025 --> 17:38.868
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just wanted to start in half our early.

17:38.928 --> 17:42.032
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's probably because of the scene and stuff.

17:42.052 --> 17:44.075
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever they're planning for scene is probably that extra time.

17:45.097 --> 17:45.778
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

17:45.798 --> 17:46.038
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

17:46.078 --> 17:51.386
[SPEAKER_00]: So what has been your favorite continental classic match so far?

17:51.406 --> 17:52.067
[SPEAKER_01]: So far.

17:52.107 --> 17:53.929
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I haven't seen Mox to catch done.

17:54.049 --> 17:59.477
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm told that'll probably be my favorite when I see it.

18:00.554 --> 18:08.863
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably my favorite to the mocks and to Keshe like the last several minutes of that match were really great.

18:08.883 --> 18:11.927
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like paper view quality, style, wrestling.

18:12.807 --> 18:14.369
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just something about Kevin Knight.

18:15.771 --> 18:26.022
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, there's an age-old discussion of like, why don't you just put the rocket pack on the back of one of these young guys and immediately elevate them in the main event and they're not doing that with Kevin Knight.

18:26.778 --> 18:50.490
[SPEAKER_00]: he probably isn't a good enough promo yet though because he doesn't he rarely does them but man if if if I look at that company and I think okay who are the coolest guys in that company he's probably at the top of the list like just that's a cool dude he he he's you know he's got the total package from a wrestling perspective just looks cool

18:51.128 --> 18:55.218
[SPEAKER_00]: he's he's next at the goofball speedball.

18:55.900 --> 19:06.387
[SPEAKER_00]: So that maybe props him up a little bit more, but I would love to see that guy at the, you know, whatever the next step for him is I hope coming out of the continental classic he gets a little bit of a bump out of that.

19:06.502 --> 19:20.921
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if history is any indication, he won't, but, you know, because I just think back to previous ones and the people that were kind of focused on during the tournament in that kind of role, you know, and you could see the ideas coming out of it, like Daniel Garcia was won.

19:20.981 --> 19:29.573
[SPEAKER_01]: And the first year, maybe a mark brisco, you know, like, and I guess mark brisco, you know, maybe he had been, has been held it a little bit, but

19:29.553 --> 19:37.466
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give Jeremy credit, our friend Jeremy Feinstein, and I had the same idea, but I think we both kind of said at the same time.

19:38.027 --> 19:45.739
[SPEAKER_01]: If you could combine Kevin Knights, athletic ability with trick Williams, charisma and promos,

19:45.719 --> 20:05.888
[SPEAKER_01]: you've got like, that's almost like the rock, you know, in terms of like, you know, I mean, it's nothing like the rock, but you know, like in terms of like the potential to be like the biggest sky in the world, like if if trick could wrestle like Kevin night or if Kevin night looked and acted like trick, it would be just be printed money.

20:06.155 --> 20:14.635
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, and so you know, and the key for both companies is to try to get that what's missing out of those two on screen.

20:14.895 --> 20:20.248
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like it's a good problem to have because Kevin night, the thing people don't know is very young.

20:20.684 --> 20:31.717
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I think like 25, maybe 25, 20, 26 at the most, I'm going to Google it, but I, you know, because it's not 20 that I've been 28.

20:31.737 --> 20:32.438
[SPEAKER_01]: 28.

20:32.778 --> 20:34.761
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so he's a year younger than trick.

20:36.122 --> 20:37.724
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, in a w, that's pretty young.

20:38.325 --> 20:42.490
[SPEAKER_01]: Although Derby, I think is surprisingly like 28.

20:42.470 --> 20:49.420
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, although, you know, if you're talking about how many years they have left, I, oh, he's actually been on TV for a long time.

20:49.660 --> 20:50.101
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

20:50.361 --> 20:51.182
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

20:51.202 --> 20:52.124
[SPEAKER_01]: But, uh, yeah.

20:52.144 --> 21:03.560
[SPEAKER_01]: So I, I mean, I hope they do something with Kevin, but I suspect, I mean, you'll probably go back to his tag team with Speedball and the tournaments over and, uh, you know, and I'm sure they're, you know, they'll probably win the tag team title at some point.

21:03.580 --> 21:04.461
[SPEAKER_01]: They're great team.

21:05.102 --> 21:08.747
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, and it kind of works that whole, you know, that the,

21:08.727 --> 21:13.892
[SPEAKER_01]: the contrast between the two personalities, but yeah, he's had that match.

21:13.912 --> 21:17.336
[SPEAKER_01]: He had the match with Darby, which was pretty great because it was a good upset.

21:17.416 --> 21:19.618
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't think anybody saw that upset coming.

21:19.698 --> 21:25.404
[SPEAKER_01]: So possibly the two most memorable matches in the tournament so far for me from what I've seen.

21:26.024 --> 21:28.707
[SPEAKER_00]: I did love the Moxley and Claudio finish.

21:28.947 --> 21:30.329
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that match.

21:30.409 --> 21:36.675
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was good.

21:36.892 --> 21:46.423
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of mixed and like they want to be happy for Claudia, but they don't they're kind of sad for Moxie at the same time their leader lost the match to the guy who's not the leader.

21:47.424 --> 21:58.197
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I liked that like they kind of went off air with no commentary and just the acting of of all the the death of us, which I thought was pretty effective.

21:58.237 --> 21:58.918
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that.

21:58.958 --> 22:05.886
[SPEAKER_00]: And which kind of

22:06.625 --> 22:29.275
[SPEAKER_00]: you have started a conversation that moxley turning baby face, which is this eventual thing that we think is gonna happen, that it's not believable because of how sadistic he was and unless something happens to shape the turn you're kind of like at odds with what they're doing right now.

22:29.508 --> 22:45.087
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's like again, and in some ways maybe people can say and rightfully so that I'm complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet, but it's just kind of where it feels like it's going and like people are already starting to cheer moxly.

22:45.067 --> 22:59.785
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, and I, you know, I brought this up, I came here if I mentioned the discord, but I definitely brought it up on the F4W message board and had a good conversation, which doesn't always happen on there, but about, you know, like

22:59.967 --> 23:07.545
[SPEAKER_01]: The fact that people are cheering moxley even though, you know, like over the last year, year and a half, he's been like the most despicable heel.

23:07.585 --> 23:10.432
[SPEAKER_01]: He ended Brian Danyson's career.

23:10.452 --> 23:14.041
[SPEAKER_01]: He tried to suffocate him with a with a plastic bag.

23:14.081 --> 23:16.026
[SPEAKER_01]: Then he threw Darby down a flight of stairs.

23:16.086 --> 23:17.790
[SPEAKER_01]: And he tried to kill Darby.

23:17.770 --> 23:22.695
[SPEAKER_01]: with a plastic bag and, um, and he held the title hostage for nine months.

23:23.335 --> 23:30.042
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he's talking in riddles and, and, you know, in the whole goal of all the top baby faces in the company was we got to get that title off mod.

23:30.062 --> 23:31.303
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got to get the title of mod.

23:31.323 --> 23:33.765
[SPEAKER_01]: So finally they do it and it's great moment.

23:33.825 --> 23:34.826
[SPEAKER_01]: Hangman wins the belt.

23:35.447 --> 23:38.510
[SPEAKER_01]: And then next week it's like, well, the belt doesn't matter.

23:38.530 --> 23:38.930
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care.

23:39.411 --> 23:44.115
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we just went right back to the Death Riders running wild over everything

23:44.095 --> 23:50.106
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, it's so we get all that, but you figure, okay, I thought it's been obvious for

23:51.318 --> 23:52.479
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably about two months now.

23:52.900 --> 24:01.148
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I remember there was one interview in particular where Moxley was just, and this was after he lost the world title, and he's just rambling.

24:01.848 --> 24:12.018
[SPEAKER_01]: And the guys that are behind him, where they used to be like, yeah, and they're just kind of looking at him and almost like rolling their eyes, like that they're not buying this anymore.

24:12.058 --> 24:14.661
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet, you know, Moxley still going.

24:14.921 --> 24:17.123
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, but he's still doing stuff.

24:17.143 --> 24:20.987
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he attack Hoka Banna.

24:20.967 --> 24:23.250
[SPEAKER_01]: hung him from the top rope.

24:24.452 --> 24:30.982
[SPEAKER_01]: He, the Mamanar just a couple weeks ago, pulled him out of commentary and beat the crap out of him and took over for him.

24:31.903 --> 24:39.774
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like all this stuff that's going on, and then the fans are still cheering him, and it's almost like they're ignoring the storylines.

24:40.255 --> 24:45.743
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when you talk to the fans, and you know, and again, I brought it up

24:46.246 --> 25:08.104
[SPEAKER_01]: fans in 2025 don't just go and play their role and cheer for the baby faces and boo the heels they cheer who they like and they like boxy because he's the he's the man he's the ace and I'm like it just wish they would tell a story to get me to do that but that's historical the like Rick Flare is constantly cheered as a heel.

25:08.165 --> 25:15.831
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess the one the one thing that I was thinking about as you

25:17.414 --> 25:28.228
[SPEAKER_00]: his whether or not there's a reason or there's like this dramatic reason whether it's Claudio and pack boot him from the deathwriters.

25:29.089 --> 25:43.928
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I want to necessarily see that it could happen and I'd be fine with it because it makes sense or if there's a split

25:44.515 --> 25:51.467
[SPEAKER_00]: Wheeler, you to go to Moxie, Daniel Garcia goes to Claudio, Marina's in the middle pack is the wild card.

25:51.848 --> 25:54.713
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, the splitting of the death writers.

25:55.855 --> 26:00.263
[SPEAKER_00]: But historically, when people have turned,

26:00.850 --> 26:12.429
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, baby face kind of organically, and this isn't even really organically because that the loss to hang man kind of sets sets it up in the fan's eyes as as this could possibly be happening fans or pretty smart.

26:13.571 --> 26:25.210
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, you sometimes it's just time in the fans kind of do the turn for you because they just like the person and you were, um, you you were mentioning.

26:26.492 --> 26:26.993
[SPEAKER_00]: How.

26:27.175 --> 26:34.366
[SPEAKER_00]: earlier when we were talking about this, like historical ones in the past, like why did this person turn?

26:34.466 --> 26:41.777
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, Randy Savage in 87 after Ricky Steamboat, and then he they create the mega powers.

26:42.278 --> 26:43.480
[SPEAKER_00]: But in this case,

26:44.658 --> 26:53.111
[SPEAKER_00]: defense loving john john moxley has everything to do with what he's done for this company from the beginning.

26:53.692 --> 27:01.063
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's almost more reasonable for me as a fan to go, yeah, of course he's a baby face.

27:01.043 --> 27:18.200
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was, it was maybe a little bit more forced for him to kill Brian Danielson and turn heel in the way that he did where I was like, okay, maybe I don't really believe that, but they had to do something drastic just to get fans to boo him because they want to cheer him.

27:18.301 --> 27:20.543
[SPEAKER_00]: He is like the hero of the company.

27:20.903 --> 27:22.265
[SPEAKER_00]: That is how he is portrayed.

27:22.285 --> 27:24.507
[SPEAKER_00]: That is how Tony Khan has mentioned him in the past.

27:24.807 --> 27:29.532
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think he's kind of a baby face in heels clothing.

27:30.203 --> 27:48.178
[SPEAKER_00]: And naturally he just kind of has to take off those heel clothes and he'll be back to being a baby face, but storyline wise what you're saying I do think there is a slice of fans who will be dissatisfied if there's not like a reason for him to come back and turn baby face.

27:48.378 --> 28:05.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, and, and again, like, and the part of the reason I feel like this is because we just saw, okay, look, look at the, the young books, so they, and they, they were kind of similar to moxley and that, you know, like everybody actually loves the young books, right, like they're, you know, they're the reason they will be exists.

28:05.582 --> 28:09.508
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been the top tag team in the world for got 15 years or something.

28:09.488 --> 28:27.649
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and then when they turned heel, they had to be so over the top dramatic with it in order to actually get fans to boo them, they're attacking Tony Khan, you know, they're hijacking the show, they're doing things, you know, just completely outlandish in order to get fans to boo them and then.

28:27.629 --> 28:43.952
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, fast forward to after they lost the review piece status, then you have them getting their come up and swear, um, the, you know, they start making fun of them in commentary and they're showing like no pyro and they got the goofy trions and stuff and they have no money and we both ate it.

28:44.393 --> 28:46.255
[SPEAKER_01]: I ain't, oh my gosh, I hated it.

28:46.336 --> 28:48.799
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I thought it was one of the worst things that they've ever done.

28:48.859 --> 28:49.460
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

28:49.600 --> 28:52.845
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet when you talk to fans, they're like, oh, this is great.

28:53.245 --> 28:57.231
[SPEAKER_01]: Because now they're getting their come up and since it's going to be so awesome when they

28:57.211 --> 29:00.595
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, how do you go from that to being a baby face?

29:01.115 --> 29:05.820
[SPEAKER_01]: So then like right after all that happens, then you have jungle boy returns.

29:06.842 --> 29:12.808
[SPEAKER_01]: And for some reason, he hates the young books, even though the last time they were on screen together, they are best friends.

29:12.828 --> 29:18.454
[SPEAKER_01]: We have no idea why except there's something happen on BTE that explains why jungle boys mad at them.

29:18.875 --> 29:24.501
[SPEAKER_01]: So he turns on them, turns baby face and then a month later,

29:24.650 --> 29:33.985
[SPEAKER_01]: the young bucks turn baby faced by saving him and I'm like, what is going on, you know, and then I'm like, are we going to get something like this with moxley and

29:34.066 --> 29:44.278
[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing that gives me hope is John Moxley is a smart guy, and I don't think John Moxley is going to allow that to happen to his character.

29:44.759 --> 29:47.442
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think he will give himself a reason.

29:47.923 --> 29:49.925
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he sees that Fazard cheering him.

29:49.985 --> 30:04.022
[SPEAKER_01]: He understands he will come up with a storyline way to make sense of the fact that he's now going to be a hero or maybe not a hero, but maybe an

30:04.002 --> 30:04.182
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

30:04.202 --> 30:04.563
[SPEAKER_00]: He has.

30:04.723 --> 30:05.043
[SPEAKER_01]: He has.

30:05.183 --> 30:08.847
[SPEAKER_01]: And even when he was a baby face, like he was not never a nice guy.

30:08.887 --> 30:15.315
[SPEAKER_00]: No, he's not doing the, I love this, I love you fans for, you know, he's not even so much.

30:15.635 --> 30:18.939
[SPEAKER_01]: He will say I love the company and even as a heel he was saying that.

30:19.199 --> 30:20.580
[SPEAKER_00]: He says I love perressing.

30:20.600 --> 30:22.182
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the greatest sport ever.

30:22.322 --> 30:30.972
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what he's even said, he loves a W because it gives him and others the opportunity to do what they weren't able to do where he used to work.

30:30.952 --> 30:49.050
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that sort of thing he will say and has said so I've that does give me hope I just I worry about the fans and part of the reason is and you've said this before and I have agreed Defands will their hardcore fan base will accept anything Just about anything.

30:49.070 --> 30:50.852
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so they don't yeah, you're right.

30:50.912 --> 30:55.997
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just about anything and there are stuff that they they've rejected and

30:56.298 --> 30:58.220
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, castor and bones.

30:58.820 --> 31:01.843
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the thing, castor they love now, too, uh, bones.

31:01.863 --> 31:04.405
[SPEAKER_01]: They absolutely rejected bones because he was brought back.

31:04.485 --> 31:06.287
[SPEAKER_01]: He was not meant to be what he is now.

31:06.727 --> 31:11.151
[SPEAKER_01]: You could see like Tony had big plans for him and he gave up on them real quick.

31:12.172 --> 31:24.263
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that whole five to a player thing with the theme song and the tron and everything like that that there was clearly he wanted him to be a big time baby face and fans just didn't agree.

31:24.243 --> 31:40.029
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's one other thing that I think we should bring up that makes this different from some of the heel turns of the past or the baby face turns of the past is that these dudes are just on TV so much after week, after week, after week.

31:40.570 --> 31:50.085
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've seen so many versions of John Moxley and AW and now this is another version.

31:50.406 --> 31:51.027
[SPEAKER_00]: Now

31:51.817 --> 32:05.045
[SPEAKER_00]: We have watched, you know, I haven't watched every single dynamite because I did take the week off a couple weeks go for for Thanksgiving, but I would say of every dynamite that has happened, I've maybe missed five, you know, at at most.

32:06.408 --> 32:07.851
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some fans.

32:08.337 --> 32:16.947
[SPEAKER_00]: who didn't watch the first year of Dynamite, or the first two years of Dynamite, or the first three years of Dynamite, or they didn't start watching until HBO Max came along with the show.

32:17.327 --> 32:22.333
[SPEAKER_00]: So to them, maybe he hasn't been on TV forever, like to us.

32:22.853 --> 32:35.087
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is a different viewpoint because I remember when I would be reading the observer, the old observers, Dave would say stuff like,

32:36.502 --> 32:46.039
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, WWE F just thinks that they have a brand new audience every three years, and that's kind of how they book is, you know, fans age out and new fans come in.

32:46.205 --> 33:00.662
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if Hulk Hogan had body slammed, Andre, the giant, you know, in 1980 or whatever it was, then you can just say that he's never done it or Andre's never been slammed because by 1987 you have a whole new audience.

33:00.682 --> 33:02.545
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was kind of the idea.

33:02.565 --> 33:04.627
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they were wrong.

33:05.528 --> 33:07.571
[SPEAKER_01]: I think most fans watching had no idea.

33:07.671 --> 33:15.520
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know, you know how I knew is because of PW pro wrestling industry.

33:16.158 --> 33:16.939
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you know?

33:16.959 --> 33:19.523
[SPEAKER_00]: Whole Hogan was a bad guy before.

33:20.004 --> 33:20.765
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's how I do.

33:20.826 --> 33:24.592
[SPEAKER_00]: 60,000 fans saw it five years ago, but it's a big secret.

33:26.034 --> 33:39.796
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that that is something that we have to think about, which is to us, you've seen every iteration of John Moxley since 2019 and even before, because when he was with WWE, I watched those early Dynamites and I had forgotten.

33:39.957 --> 33:42.621
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he was a despicable heel when Dynamite started.

33:42.601 --> 34:07.208
[SPEAKER_00]: And you remember one of the big back clashes early on in Dynamite was putting Omega through the glass table with that soup like oh I boycotted the first full gear because of that I wasn't watching I didn't watch I never have I still haven't to this day and like that was so drastic back then and so in order to get fans to feel the same way today.

34:08.268 --> 34:14.718
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to put a plastic bag over somebody's head and then what was it three months later, he was a baby face food and with Chris Jericho.

34:16.441 --> 34:35.710
[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, I mean, it's not much different like I guess, you know, when you when you look at it that way, although I will say I think the stuff he did with Darby and Danius in was worse, but it's because it had to be like just like for the reasons you said and the one thing you mentioned all the stuff that he did to Darby Darby also said this man on fire.

34:35.875 --> 34:53.156
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he murdered his best friend who somehow came back to life, he dragged him apparently the story was because they did say to get right across the Jersey turnpike from Philly at 50 miles an hour in a truck.

34:54.358 --> 35:00.866
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and you know, I think historically we've seen so many unbelievable things in wrestling.

35:01.587 --> 35:02.608
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're a little kid,

35:03.196 --> 35:06.441
[SPEAKER_00]: you're just kind of into it and when you're an adult, you're like, okay, this is stupid.

35:07.242 --> 35:17.317
[SPEAKER_00]: But the thing about those things are that like, some of it is just because Tony promised us, A, W, is gonna be different, right?

35:17.597 --> 35:23.366
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're like, we're like, in 2019, you said this was gonna be realistic and sports.

35:23.987 --> 35:26.130
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, okay, yeah, but that was like six years ago.

35:26.150 --> 35:31.498
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I know that, you know, maybe this works a little bit better with my audience, so be it.

35:31.748 --> 35:38.680
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not much, I mean, other than the in-ring, the actual storytelling, like it's per wrestling.

35:38.840 --> 35:46.874
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, there's not a lot different in the two companies, like obviously the story lines are different, but the general formula is the same.

35:47.455 --> 35:51.362
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, I would say, the presentation of the actual wrestling is vastly different.

35:51.843 --> 35:55.309
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, I'm struck by that every time I watch raw.

35:55.289 --> 36:03.890
[SPEAKER_01]: you know like and I love raw but you watch raw and it's like 25 minutes before anything happens and you know what dynamite you've already had two matches by that point.

36:04.411 --> 36:12.049
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I tell you though for my wrestling taste and my fandom and how I want wrestling to look and feel

36:12.637 --> 36:16.122
[SPEAKER_00]: a great raw is like the perfect processing television for me.

36:16.142 --> 36:16.342
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

36:16.543 --> 36:16.723
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

36:16.763 --> 36:18.305
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and I wasn't criticizing it.

36:18.365 --> 36:20.248
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just pointing out how different it is.

36:20.869 --> 36:30.122
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know I know my tries to do that and it doesn't work because that's not what they're good at, but I know the match quality and

36:30.102 --> 36:35.407
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, WWE doesn't use TV matches in the same way that A.W.

36:35.447 --> 36:48.600
[SPEAKER_00]: does, like you'll get this great match or good really good match on WWE TV and then it'll end with some flookie thing at the end double this qualification like super predictable and you're like, ah, why do they have to do that?

36:48.841 --> 36:56.228
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's because they're trying to get you to watch next week, like that's that's the the the the trope that they use and

36:56.984 --> 37:12.833
[SPEAKER_00]: I watch that and I go okay, whatever, but the presentation and the interviews and the way that they produce that show and how they go into commercial and how they come at a commercial and how they set up things I like that way more than dynamite.

37:12.813 --> 37:22.468
[SPEAKER_00]: But you don't have the match quality and that's what Dynamite has that you they need to hang on to because WWE has everything else.

37:23.169 --> 37:31.041
[SPEAKER_00]: But their presentation of pro wrestling as the most important thing if you want to watch matches this is the most important show for you to watch.

37:31.021 --> 37:33.306
[SPEAKER_00]: And they've got to keep doing it that way.

37:33.746 --> 37:43.967
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the C2 right now that's going on just accentuates that, because it, I mean, you, the very format of the tournament doesn't even allow for the bad finishes.

37:44.302 --> 38:12.250
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have to, you have to get a finish and the closest thing to a bad finish is actually an awesome finish, which was, you know, like John Moxley just getting flash KO'd, you know, like that's, I mean, you wouldn't normally see that and and sometimes there's a time when people would have looked at that until that's sucked, you know, like we didn't get any kickouts like no, it's like that's great, you know, and and so and you are the instant tap that moxley will do sometimes.

38:12.230 --> 38:28.126
[SPEAKER_00]: The first time I saw a finish like that that I can remember it was on a John the Rocker Premier wrestling show featuring Jeff Cobb.

38:28.706 --> 38:40.498
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I forget the guy who Jeff was facing, but this guy worked in NXT for a short period of time, I think, but anyways,

38:40.715 --> 38:52.427
[SPEAKER_00]: John wanted to create this idea that anything can happen in, in, in, in, in, and a lot of what premier was as well was like, these matches weren't all going 10 or 15 minutes.

38:52.447 --> 38:53.668
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of them would go six.

38:54.288 --> 38:55.730
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of them would go 12.

38:55.890 --> 38:57.151
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of them would go eight.

38:57.311 --> 39:09.203
[SPEAKER_00]: And you, like, there was no repetitiveness to the style because he really wanted it to feel a little bit more realistic.

39:10.685 --> 39:27.360
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the match is just happening and it's short and you're thinking like okay Jeff's gonna win because Jeff's their best guy and all of a sudden boom Jeff just gets pinned and I was like what the hell happened and then so I texted John in the back like did he get hurt and John Mike replies is like LOL

39:27.796 --> 39:33.203
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, I just wanted to educate the fans that anything could happen on these shows.

39:33.243 --> 39:34.604
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why you got to pay attention.

39:34.644 --> 39:35.886
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I want you to come.

39:36.066 --> 39:40.331
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you remember they did that with surprisingly enough.

39:40.932 --> 39:45.798
[SPEAKER_01]: WWE was doing it a couple of years ago with Leying Lee, who is, entirely at the time.

39:46.539 --> 39:51.765
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was getting those flash knockouts where she would just hit that spinning back fist and the person would be out.

39:52.626 --> 39:54.509
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and that I thought that was cool.

39:54.589 --> 39:56.571
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think they've done it before too.

39:57.057 --> 40:01.603
[SPEAKER_01]: I might have done it with Ryback or possibly, maybe Keith Lee.

40:02.164 --> 40:04.747
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there was somebody they were doing, they were trying to get that over with.

40:04.808 --> 40:05.949
[SPEAKER_01]: And they always gave up on it.

40:06.330 --> 40:14.581
[SPEAKER_01]: A Brock, I know, did it for a little while, where he was finishing matches by stoppage, where the referee was just, no, that's it, you're done.

40:15.322 --> 40:21.310
[SPEAKER_01]: And they just, yeah, they just kind of get away from it because they like they're tried and true for him, you know,

40:21.290 --> 40:38.472
[SPEAKER_00]: Two minutes of action, commercial, come back, come back, you know, interference, painful, the fan, the fans aren't the fans are very educated for certain thing and WWE fans are great at is buying into the

40:38.840 --> 40:39.701
[SPEAKER_00]: to the layout.

40:39.901 --> 40:43.264
[SPEAKER_00]: They just buy into the layout of the end of the match.

40:43.284 --> 41:02.862
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when you change that, the fans may not pop in the same way, or they may not, you know, that they may not kind of rise to the level before the finish like they, I got a buddy that knows their formula so well he can like fast forward to what's going to happen and like, and he can do that if, you know, if you had a, you know, finishes like that.

41:02.922 --> 41:08.847
[SPEAKER_01]: So he'd probably get frustrated, but he loves

41:08.827 --> 41:12.454
[SPEAKER_00]: or less, I mean, it's kind of how I watch it too.

41:12.474 --> 41:13.796
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know if I'm being honest.

41:14.598 --> 41:14.698
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

41:14.718 --> 41:14.998
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

41:15.079 --> 41:27.622
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, we got in a nice tight 40, which is kind of what I want for this show because we recorded during the day kind of on our lunch break or whatever, I think a tight 40.

41:27.642 --> 41:29.405
[SPEAKER_00]: So, that's where I'm trying to fit it in.

41:29.465 --> 41:32.050
[SPEAKER_00]: We may go longer shorter at some point, but

41:32.317 --> 41:38.584
[SPEAKER_00]: That is my new vision for for what the show is kind of the kickstart for the week for fight game media and for wrestling.

41:38.644 --> 41:39.686
[SPEAKER_00]: So all right, man.

41:39.906 --> 41:43.770
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll you and Jeff will be back on Wednesday night after winners coming.

41:44.311 --> 41:45.452
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're going to talk.

41:46.133 --> 41:47.435
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about Eddie.

41:48.356 --> 41:58.948
[SPEAKER_00]: I think yeah, I saw that that if you if you were in the discord in the dynamite show, we had a discussion about Eddie Kingston and and the kind of the

41:59.603 --> 42:25.122
[SPEAKER_00]: the way that they the way that the heels get on him has been similar over the years and they did it again with Simo Joe so yeah so that'll be we always do a discussion piece we always do a 10 15 minutes before we do the show recap and that's what we're going to be talking about this week and hey maybe we're going to be talking about the new world champion it would be cool but yeah I don't think they have the if the argument

42:25.692 --> 42:39.395
[SPEAKER_00]: For the reason why Samoa Joe won the title is because there were no heels left for hangman set up, then you're putting it back on a baby face who has no heels set up unless it's just goes back to Samoa Joe like very quick or M.J.F.

42:39.576 --> 42:41.659
[SPEAKER_00]: who's coming back next week.

42:42.027 --> 42:45.435
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, just sees at any, at any.

42:45.595 --> 42:45.695
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

42:45.715 --> 42:46.236
[SPEAKER_00]: Easy work.

42:46.256 --> 42:46.798
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, oh, yeah.

42:46.818 --> 42:47.319
[SPEAKER_00]: Easy work.

42:47.339 --> 42:47.940
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm cash show.

42:48.000 --> 42:50.045
[SPEAKER_01]: So he shows up right when she's the match.

42:50.085 --> 42:51.207
[SPEAKER_01]: It's over Tony.

42:51.227 --> 42:52.671
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm, I'm next week.

42:54.354 --> 42:58.564
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I miss that guy.

42:58.704 --> 42:59.125
[SPEAKER_00]: But.

43:01.282 --> 43:03.066
[SPEAKER_00]: It's good thing to miss it, right?

43:03.166 --> 43:03.948
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

43:03.988 --> 43:06.353
[SPEAKER_01]: And we may end up with the same problem as we have with Mox.

43:06.894 --> 43:09.520
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but Mike, he might come back and people start cheering them.

43:09.540 --> 43:09.841
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

43:09.861 --> 43:10.642
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

43:10.662 --> 43:10.983
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

43:11.364 --> 43:12.146
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it from here.

43:12.226 --> 43:12.927
[SPEAKER_00]: So for Paul.

43:13.128 --> 43:15.493
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm double G. We'll see you when we see you piece out.