John Cena & Hiroshi Tanahashi Nearing the End, Blood & Guts/WarGames, & Jericho to WWE? | Takedown

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, we took a couple of weeks off, one of them, for the world series.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And last week, you were out and about hanging out with the fam, how was your vacation?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was not hanging out with the fam, no, I was in Vegas by myself, man.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That was a family.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I did have my stuff with me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We could have gone, but I was kind of glad.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you did the dynamite.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I did.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I brought everything with me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know what?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it would have been tough that first night, because it took me a little while to get everything working, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I would say I spent like an hour and a half just trying to figure out how to get everything going.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And people actually seem to like the...

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like they like looking at my room and stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it was yeah, it was it was good But yeah, no, I had a great time just I needed a couple days break.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'd you know like it's looking after a daughter Was special needs it's hard sometimes so by wife had a work trip where she was gone for like three days and so I asked Can I take off for a few days?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, we're doing a big family trip next like early next year to Cuba Oh, wow, yes, that'll be that'll be awesome

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, when it comes to the gambling aspect of the trip to Japan, I came home with some money.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that's good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I lost.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But by had fun, that's all the matters.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But you're at the point where like your rooms are calm.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, rooms calm.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I get free food and everything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, like it's hard to tell how much I even like one or lost because like

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[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes when I'm up like I'm spending money like a drunk and sailor and not even really thinking about it and literally like tip and hard tip and hard yeah like I if I didn't tip I'd probably be up like I mean I you know like one session on a black jack table like I might tip like 150 bucks like just depending on how it's going.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm glad you seem relaxed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You seem a little rest.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's good.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but then you got to come back and watch wrestling all over.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's fine.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a little behind, but mostly caught up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen SmackDown yet.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's, um, but you know, I've caught up for that and the New Japan show on the weekend.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I know what happened on the New Japan show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just haven't seen it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, all right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So actually, you know what that makes me slightly ahead of you because they did watch the Tana Hashi, you know, ice match and then I saw the, uh, the Ocata, uh, coming out of the into the crowd, all right, coming out from the crowd, but we'll we'll talk about that when, uh,

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[SPEAKER_00]: When we get to it, because that is going to be one of our topics today.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, but why don't we, let's start off with a topic of your choice since you've been kind of gone for a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, let you kick it off.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, we're going to talk about the rest of the year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is that what we're doing?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you have a specific person for wrestler the year that is not on a lot of other people's balance and I like the I like the case I don't know that this person will win, but I think the case is actually a good case and if you do choose someone from WWE, this is

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[SPEAKER_00]: probably the right person.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot because like I would say like up until July like you know all in like if you ask me yet all in I would have said oh hangman's the favorite to it and Mystico's probably right there and and you know and then when Mystico had the match with MJF and September

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then I started looking at Mystico, I'm thinking, okay, Mystico.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then like John Cena's name just kind of came at me from out almost out of nowhere.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it was always like, you know, even in the first half of the year, it's like, well, if you're talking strictly about business.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's got to be seen up, but it's not just about business, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like the wrestler of the year award is that is business is considered because, you know, we have we also have the most outstanding wrestler and that is a different category, but a wrestler of the year combines business importance and also match quality as well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So like Hulk Hogan, I don't think everyone wrestler of the year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: because his in-ring just, you know, the observer voters never thought he was good enough.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Although there were years when he placed pretty high.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the observer, the observer readership like sort of actively hated it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, they had that like wrestlers least favorite or readers least favorite award and he won that like every year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it was, you know, and

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because if you I'm reading like the 91's right now and it's kind of going the other way to where like I mean they obviously still have a favoriteism towards Japan, but they're really favoring WWF over WCW like WCW at that time was just you know like the dirt worst in their eyes, you know even though I my memories of it weren't as bad as how it's being described as I'm reading it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I'm looking at Cena and like, okay, obviously the heel turn was not good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, creatively, the matches weren't good for the most part.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And yet one or two that were okay, or even, I think you had one that was even good as a heel.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But since he turned baby face, he's the matches keep getting better and better.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The business is incredible.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you looked at shows that Cena is on,

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[SPEAKER_01]: versus shows that scene is not on, like I think that the business difference is incredible.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the whole year has been built around Sina, and WWE is going to have probably it's most profitable, but year they've ever had, which is saying something.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he's having like classic matches, like you know, like he, I did my top

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[SPEAKER_01]: 10 and there was a tie.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it was really top 11 matches of the year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This would have been right after the scene to AJ match.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I had seen having two matches in my top 11.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he was, it was only him Omega to catch.

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[SPEAKER_01]: an offspring that had at least two.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, okay, but here's an argument.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Do any of those guys have some really bad matches on that list as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Of course not.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because the match at WrestleMania, I know that you liked it more than most, but if you were going to say what was one of his worst matches, I think that wouldn't would probably be on the list.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would agree with that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: His matches with Randy Orton and CM Punk, I don't think.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're at the bar that people wanted to see those matches, the heel thing actually, you know, was probably the biggest reason.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think the Punkpatch was really good, actually, but I agree on the ordinary one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It, it was like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was like Ollie Frazier 3, not Ollie Frazier 1 or 2, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I actually know actually I take that back because Ollie Frazier 3 was crazy because they were killing each other.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it was like a match where you really wanted to see them turn back the hands of time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if you've, I don't know what you think of CM Punk's wrestling today.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I find him

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[SPEAKER_00]: sort of John Cena ish these days with the way that he wrestles in the way he puts his matches together.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so you had two guys like wrestling like John Cena in a match where the thing that stood out about CM Punk is he was the anti John Cena.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that so to me,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was pretty disappointed overall in that match, but it's also because I expected it to be better than above average, just because of the history and because of the previous matches, those guys had with each other.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing, and I know you're focusing on business, though, the hard part about business these days is that the brand is over by such a huge amount that it's really

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, who is actually Fernando had had a better example.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Dirty sugar and Duran number three was was really bad versus the first two fights.

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[SPEAKER_00]: First fight was excellent.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Second fight was just historical.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, like sugar versus Duran.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Duran 10 years later, how many years later, it was like a bad fight if you compare it to the other two.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if you take into account that he is either here, Cody, or the two biggest stars, I think Punk and Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins, they're right in there, but, you know, Punk and Roman Reigns, they don't work all that often, so you could actually probably put Cena ahead of them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The first half of the year for him was just creatively, after the royal rumble, it was just really bad.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And again, you liked it more than most people, but I just found it to like, if you gave us the John Cena from the beginning of the year to the royal rumble.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And from Summerslam, through right now,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would think that that guy's the biggest star in the business, but you can't take away.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You can't subtract the February through July, which I just thought was actively bad.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, why are we fighting what the fans really want out of this guy and pretending that it's great stuff, just so that Triple H can crow about it on Unreal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's the part that I have a problem with.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, how do I, how do I, how do I, how do I, how do I word this?

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[SPEAKER_01]: What I, what I'd say to that is, yeah, the creative was bad.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the matches were bad.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The interviews, some of them were good, some of them weren't.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But again, it was really from March till when did he turn back?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it was just for summer slime, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So,

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, in the 11th month right now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So the first, like the other six months have been awesome.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the business part has always been there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's no question about that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think if you looked at any other case where somebody had this kind of business here, and also had several four star matches and a couple near five star matches, I think they would

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you're talking just outstanding matches, obviously, you know, like those other names of Megah, Osprey, Kestha, Bandito, Mystico, would all like be ahead of him, but I don't know about business, like in this of your combining business and then you know, then a year probably talk about Mystico.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, and the thing is like with Hangman, I would say Hangman's creative since all in has been just as bad as seen as, uh, he'll, it's not bad.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's boring.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's which might be worse to some people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what I would say.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would say it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But, but at least Hangman is still being Hangman.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's not faking being the other guy being a different guy when you know that who he really is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but they're actively, like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're actively making people like giving you something that you don't necessarily want That's Tony's issue with the follow-up like we know this about Tony's booking He books this big show and then the follow-up sucks because he's just put everything into that show and they don't really have stuff coming out of it So Mojo

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we are being, I think Samo Joe, as someone who's aging gracefully and wrestling is fan-tast, he's great as he gets older.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But he's with no one believes he's a world champion.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Even though he has been a world champion, nobody believes he's a world champion.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so thus, this feud with Hangman is not, is not all that interesting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I compared it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, with Dave the other day, you remember when Austin won the title for the first time in WWE F. His first two title matches on paper views were against Mick Foley, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And nobody believed Mick Foley could win the title.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that they made you believe Mick Foley could possibly do it was to have Vince try and break all of the rules.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the thought was, is that Vince is going to force it to happen and have Mick Foley win the belt.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And he didn't.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, WWE Fs, similarly to WWE today, they were kind of hot as fire and nothing was going to ruin that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it was fine, AEW is not that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The AEW is kind of the opposite in that the big matches and actually do draw for them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And thus, Somo Jo and Hangman Page are probably

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[SPEAKER_01]: like the third or fourth most important match on some of them and that's the key and that's why like that's where I say that it's about the booking it's not even whether or not it's boring or not and and I would agree with you that it kind of is but ever since he won the title

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[SPEAKER_01]: like the focus of the company is still on moxley and darby like it's been on moxley and darby ever since moxley lost the title and then even beyond that I would say you know it's Mercedes and it's Tony and then you've got you then you get to hang man I actually I would even put a cotton to catch the in a lot of people's eyes like people are more interesting that that that that angle is more interesting than anything and it's getting more focus in some ways

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like you've got the Don Tows family all over the show, he's constantly talking about Ocada, and Fletcher, Ocada to Kaster, three of your top guys, have any of them?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think Fletcher's barely mentioned the world title.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Ocada to Kaster couldn't care less about the world title.

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[SPEAKER_01]: John Moxie doesn't care about the world title.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Darby Allen doesn't care about the world title.

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[SPEAKER_01]: None of the top people care about the world title.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so if they don't care why should we.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, as they got all these other belts that are, or it's the future more important than, you know, feuding for the world title.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it almost feels like we're in a holding pattern until we get some of these people back.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But even then, it's like, I don't see Osprey going after hangmen.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's MJF, probably, is the first real child there?

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[SPEAKER_00]: That seems like what's the hold-up?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that they just did not have.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't want to build anything up all MJF was going.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I would take a chance if I was them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I proposed this idea on time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I would have turned, and maybe they might still do this at the paperview.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I would turn Brody King and turn him heel, have him go after hangmen.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that could do something there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he's fresh as an opponent.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's over, so I think he'd be over as a heal.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he could, he could play off that fake injury that Ben Dito's doing and like rip out his shoulder, you know, like in storyline.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that would get him a lot of heat.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that would, I think that would work, but.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But then again, maybe it's just me another Joe situation where nobody's going to buy it, you know, we're just having another cycle of a world title match that nobody cares about, I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do with Brody and Bandito because both of those guys

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[SPEAKER_00]: should be on singular paths.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the tag team thing is sort of working.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I still don't find them to be the most important tag team in the division.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But they are getting kudos in a way that they haven't gotten kudos on a, W, television before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of cool for them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I would probably if I were them, the better safe than sorry thing is to keep that tag team together, because you know what happens when they split up tag teams as the guys kind of go to hell.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or they bring them back two years later when nobody cares about them anymore.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you did Dave talk about a scene at all on when you guys talk did the show I haven't listened yet?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think he mentioned Cody.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he mentions.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be curious what he would think.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But ask him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, all right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, I think I liked the idea of it, especially because WWE is still so much bigger than anything else going, it's just this readership is, is very, oh, he's not going to win.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, he's not going to win, but if you were to ask,

17:00.310 --> 17:26.757
[SPEAKER_00]: normal you know I would take at more more of the kind of check in and check out rustling fans they would probably tell you yeah only really you know only really paid attention to to see in our Roman or punk like those are the guys that I paid attention to you know it's actually interesting though um I was hanging out with my kids yesterday went to the 49ers game and my youngest I said youngest and he's you know he's 25 or he's going to be 25

17:27.091 --> 17:38.721
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, and he was saying how he was like, who's the guy in the AEW, who, uh, and he, he described him and I was like, oh, Osprey, yeah, Osprey.

17:39.089 --> 17:42.293
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, you know, I don't, he doesn't watch wrestling.

17:42.353 --> 17:45.838
[SPEAKER_00]: He sees a lot of clips on TikTok and Instagram and stuff.

17:45.858 --> 17:49.302
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, he's like, that guy's in a different dimension than everybody else.

17:50.443 --> 17:52.866
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, yeah, he's tremendous.

17:53.287 --> 17:54.148
[SPEAKER_00]: He's really awesome.

17:54.909 --> 18:05.282
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was just saying how, like, that is kind of what gets into, to stop scrolling a little bit is, is we'll

18:05.617 --> 18:08.161
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to watch AEW, right?

18:08.181 --> 18:10.805
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to go, oh, where can I watch more of him?

18:10.845 --> 18:15.091
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to go then by a paper view, based off of the TikTok clips.

18:15.572 --> 18:23.864
[SPEAKER_00]: But I did find it interesting that he's like, uh, the sky, you know, people need to pay attention to him in, you know, people who are watching, and I was like, yeah, they do.

18:24.204 --> 18:24.725
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

18:24.745 --> 18:28.030
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, it's just so funny how,

18:28.010 --> 18:34.140
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, WWE is really good at the social stuff and you see the numbers.

18:34.640 --> 18:43.154
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, AEW has the most marketable social clips wrestler out there and they can't figure out how to do this stuff to get him over even more.

18:43.734 --> 18:44.896
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, they fortune it.

18:45.457 --> 18:53.730
[SPEAKER_01]: WWE's got a guy like that that could take off in that way and get that machine behind him in a year or two and that's

18:54.048 --> 19:01.042
[SPEAKER_01]: Like his his clips could be that kind of thing because he's he's better than Osprey was at this age.

19:01.162 --> 19:05.672
[SPEAKER_01]: So if he progresses at the same rate that Osprey did and I don't know that he will.

19:05.752 --> 19:07.034
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's that's a lot to ask.

19:07.095 --> 19:12.225
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, he could be he could be real something real special in like five years.

19:14.197 --> 19:16.939
[SPEAKER_00]: not the way they book them in and it's team and doesn't matter.

19:17.140 --> 19:27.769
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, like, I, you go back and watch old hour a week and will ospreys out there flipping all over the place and then losing to like, you know, Jay Lee Thill or, you know, lower on the cards and that honestly.

19:27.909 --> 19:29.650
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right.

19:29.710 --> 19:43.242
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about something that happened at New Japan and it is also, you know, seen as retiring, which is why this run is even more meaningful, kind of

19:43.677 --> 19:59.881
[SPEAKER_00]: Another person who's going out in a great way is Hiroshi Tanahashi, and there was so much conversation about who should be the guy for his retirement match, should it be Naito, should it be Okada, should it be Nakamura?

20:00.702 --> 20:06.411
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I think we were all intrigued by Nakamura,

20:06.982 --> 20:19.328
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were also not only just by the match because they haven't wrestled in a long time and it would actually be fun to see what Nakamura is today outside of WWE, WWE style.

20:20.310 --> 20:28.146
[SPEAKER_00]: And but I also think some of the intrigue was about the messiness of that situation.

20:28.565 --> 20:33.893
[SPEAKER_00]: How would Tony con deal with having a WWE wrestler working with his number one partner?

20:33.993 --> 20:35.756
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that was a lot of the intrigue.

20:35.776 --> 20:41.124
[SPEAKER_00]: It was almost like some fans wanted to see it happen just because they knew it would bother Tony.

20:41.144 --> 20:43.368
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I do think that some of it was that.

20:44.369 --> 20:46.793
[SPEAKER_00]: And

20:46.773 --> 21:05.231
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it would be cool, because it's kind of the true forbidden door, like if you're really trying to create that like anything can happen, thing, Nakamura is the guy because of the being in WWE and having AEW on the show.

21:05.611 --> 21:14.620
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, like Tony Khan is that, you know, they're

21:14.819 --> 21:28.204
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought, you know what, when I saw those two guys in the ring together, I was like, okay, it may not be the craziest of intrigue because these guys, I saw them wrestle like two years ago.

21:28.244 --> 21:30.950
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you saw their last match, right?

21:30.970 --> 21:31.731
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

21:32.048 --> 21:55.086
[SPEAKER_00]: It which was really good, you know, what it wasn't the same match from like the mid to mid 2010s for sure, but it was still really good, but then if you take away the uniqueness of the knock a more a match, I think that's the right match because you saw them in the ring together and all the sudden like memories just kind of came back to me and they kind of flooded back and say, okay, this is why.

21:55.555 --> 21:58.698
[SPEAKER_00]: I really fell in love with New Japan pro-Russing this feud.

21:59.199 --> 22:17.237
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea that al-Kadak just couldn't beat this dude and it time and time again and finally he conquered him and he became the top guy and then Tonahashi came back and had to beat Kenny Omega to reclaim status like at that Russell Kingdom 2019 or 2018 or whatever that was.

22:17.558 --> 22:21.782
[SPEAKER_00]: There are so like all those memories came flooding back to me and I thought you know what?

22:22.268 --> 22:24.590
[SPEAKER_00]: Romanticism wins here.

22:24.710 --> 22:28.494
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is actually the right match for Tana-Hashi's story.

22:29.094 --> 22:31.256
[SPEAKER_00]: The Nakamura one would have been the most intriguing.

22:31.276 --> 22:33.358
[SPEAKER_00]: It would have been the most like forbidden Dorish.

22:33.799 --> 22:36.721
[SPEAKER_00]: But to tell this story, I think the Okada one is the right one.

22:37.082 --> 22:41.386
[SPEAKER_01]: So I agree with most of everything you said there.

22:42.247 --> 22:49.153
[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing I would say when you talk about being right for the story, I actually think that

22:49.133 --> 22:53.647
[SPEAKER_01]: right for the story, also would have been Nakamura.

22:53.668 --> 23:00.088
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason being that they him and either either Nakamura or Shabata.

23:00.406 --> 23:20.894
[SPEAKER_01]: And because they came up together as the new three miscutters, and they were, you know, and specifically Nakamura and Tanahashi were competing to be that next guy, and Tanahashi pulled ahead of him, and then they tried pushing, you know, Nakamura was a champion in really down times.

23:21.756 --> 23:29.907
[SPEAKER_01]: He tried him and he, you know, he, you know, people were forget, like he

23:30.578 --> 23:38.657
[SPEAKER_01]: It, not the more I never quite hit the level that Tanaashi did and then Nakamura just cashed out in 2016 and went to WWE.

23:38.737 --> 23:46.596
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they had 15 years together, but so for me, like as, as somebody who's followed that scene for a long time,

23:46.576 --> 23:56.812
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like Okada and Tanahashi was played out, and that said, I mean, I did feel this, I do feel the same nostalgia for that match as you do.

23:57.573 --> 24:09.311
[SPEAKER_01]: I went into it thinking if we get Okada or Tanahashi or Omega, those are the three that I wanted, one of those three, and if we got any one of those three, I'd have been happy.

24:09.331 --> 24:10.573
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm happy with Okada.

24:10.593 --> 24:11.554
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't give me wrong.

24:11.534 --> 24:37.761
[SPEAKER_01]: But but I would just say like for the story and especially the story that not that Tanaashi was telling because he says we're going to go back to the original and I wonder when he made that comment if he thought it was going to be Shabata Or you know he wanted to be Shabata and then for whatever reason like they they just did like I think that New Japan won't let Shabata work and that may be out of out of Tanaashi's hands because of what he pulled

24:38.095 --> 24:51.894
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, a couple of years ago when he was supposed to come into a grappling match and he ended up having a regular full-fledged match and then he did an exhibition match last year at the dome and beat the shit out of each other, him and Tanna Aussie for five minutes, which was awesome.

24:52.134 --> 24:53.996
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was unbelievable.

24:54.617 --> 25:00.745
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I would, I would say like for me, you know, I, I'm perfectly happy with Alcada, don't get me wrong.

25:00.805 --> 25:07.174
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously the Nakamura thing couldn't work.

25:07.660 --> 25:12.370
[SPEAKER_01]: Really like PKO has nothing to lose by letting Nakamura do this match.

25:12.430 --> 25:14.615
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, it's going to get him extra exposure.

25:14.635 --> 25:15.697
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to hurt them at all.

25:16.238 --> 25:21.269
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to make them look like, oh, where the generous people letting our guy go do the show.

25:21.710 --> 25:22.993
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me, okay, can I tell you?

25:23.013 --> 25:25.338
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I tell you why they may be not wanting him to do it?

25:26.360 --> 25:27.643
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, sure.

25:29.345 --> 25:32.650
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say he gets over in a crazy way.

25:32.670 --> 25:33.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

25:33.371 --> 25:33.692
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

25:33.712 --> 25:35.915
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's, and let's say he wants to go back to Japan.

25:36.677 --> 25:38.720
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know, they're not using them.

25:39.762 --> 25:43.147
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, but that is not how they do business, right?

25:43.167 --> 25:46.392
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to create stars in other companies.

25:46.439 --> 25:47.420
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess.

25:47.460 --> 25:48.522
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that could be it.

25:48.622 --> 25:51.767
[SPEAKER_01]: And then with Tony, like, I mean for him, like, what does he care?

25:51.807 --> 25:54.170
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, it's, it's fan service.

25:54.190 --> 25:58.156
[SPEAKER_01]: So he looks like the bigger guy for giving his blessing if they let it happen.

25:58.577 --> 26:01.561
[SPEAKER_01]: And then New Japan, obviously, they, they'd be more than happy to have not come more us.

26:01.581 --> 26:05.306
[SPEAKER_00]: So the thing is, I think, I think he would want his partners though.

26:05.587 --> 26:07.249
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to.

26:08.950 --> 26:10.453
[SPEAKER_00]: have his back, right?

26:10.493 --> 26:19.251
[SPEAKER_00]: Because WWE and TKO are actively trolling this dude and actively trying to ruin his shows, right?

26:19.271 --> 26:24.582
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're they are competing against him very specifically to ruin what he can do.

26:24.902 --> 26:27.668
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you if you are New Japan,

26:27.648 --> 26:32.713
[SPEAKER_00]: and you are actually entertaining the idea, Tony probably feels a little way about that.

26:34.355 --> 26:37.499
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if New Japan came to him was like, hey, we got your back.

26:37.519 --> 26:38.680
[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing this one thing.

26:39.621 --> 26:43.064
[SPEAKER_00]: If them, you know, maybe he feels differently, but I don't know.

26:43.084 --> 26:46.348
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just the tough one, especially when you have the partners in this wrestling war.

26:46.688 --> 26:55.798
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go back four, five months, maybe even longer, when we're first starting to speculate who's last opponent could

26:55.778 --> 27:03.669
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people that follow the New Japan scene super closely, Jeremy, you know, on New speaking strong, solving one of them, just shot it down immediately.

27:04.450 --> 27:07.434
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know Chris Sambs, I think, was another one that said, no, there's no way.

27:07.454 --> 27:08.796
[SPEAKER_01]: God is not going to be coming back.

27:09.056 --> 27:09.717
[SPEAKER_01]: It's too soon.

27:10.418 --> 27:11.580
[SPEAKER_01]: Tony's not going to let him do it.

27:12.141 --> 27:13.763
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it just doesn't make any business sense.

27:13.783 --> 27:15.145
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they were saying that.

27:16.647 --> 27:22.495
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm starting to wonder if maybe they had the knock-a-more thing out there

27:22.660 --> 27:26.986
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of make it so that, oh, well, if you don't give us a cotta, we'll go get knock emura.

27:27.427 --> 27:28.308
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

27:28.548 --> 27:41.145
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe having the possibility of having knock emura there, you know, what's I'm trying to think of the word, it light and Tony's heart, you know, like kind of thing, okay, maybe I'll let a cotta do it or maybe even a cotta wanted to do it.

27:41.626 --> 27:43.869
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, maybe it was him that didn't want to go to Japan.

27:43.889 --> 27:51.840
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't know the reason why they were so adamant, it wasn't going to be a cotta, because that was the first name that that people wanted.

27:52.225 --> 27:56.074
[SPEAKER_01]: The, you know, the name I would want in a perfect world where there's no politics or anything.

27:56.835 --> 27:58.399
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you would want to see it.

27:58.419 --> 27:59.541
[SPEAKER_01]: Seen it on a hot day.

27:59.822 --> 28:02.207
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be so awesome on January 4th.

28:02.327 --> 28:04.753
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh my god, like, you know, in the dome.

28:04.773 --> 28:07.338
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it never happened, but I would be the best.

28:09.082 --> 28:11.668
[SPEAKER_00]: The one thing that I, that I will

28:11.767 --> 28:13.810
[SPEAKER_00]: I will be very vocal about my frustration.

28:14.291 --> 28:21.142
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're kind of teasing it in the story is that it's not New Japan, Ocada, that is actually gonna face Tanahashi.

28:21.162 --> 28:23.366
[SPEAKER_00]: It's AEW, Ocada.

28:24.167 --> 28:29.956
[SPEAKER_00]: And he has to be the main event because to catch it, there's no way that to catch it is the main event over him.

28:30.217 --> 28:31.038
[SPEAKER_00]: No, they can't be.

28:31.338 --> 28:36.767
[SPEAKER_00]: And, no, no, no, but that's his storyline, his in this retirement match, that is Ocada's storyline.

28:37.208 --> 28:37.909
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

28:38.783 --> 28:49.559
[SPEAKER_00]: If this, if this Ocata and Tana Hashi match becomes more about Ocata to Keshita than it is Ocata Tana Hashi, I'm going to be really frustrated.

28:50.179 --> 29:05.061
[SPEAKER_01]: And it might be, you know, like especially if Tony has any, I imagine he's got some say in the creative, you know, although he's probably not going to overrule Tana Hashi, like being a Tana Hashi is a president, Tana Hashi probably wants to lose,

29:05.193 --> 29:13.415
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the other thing, like, if Tony is involved at all in the creative of this, O'Cotton to catch start both winning.

29:14.136 --> 29:18.949
[SPEAKER_01]: But what makes sense business wise is Yoda Suji to be beaten to catch the.

29:19.672 --> 29:24.885
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be, I wouldn't be surprised if to catch it a one, by the way, not not that I would be surprised.

29:25.807 --> 29:37.596
[SPEAKER_00]: I would find it a little odd, but look, if, you know, it's only because I don't sense that to catch it as super over with that audience.

29:37.576 --> 29:55.456
[SPEAKER_00]: No, if he wins, it would be kind of as a little bit as a heal and the idea would then be for who is going to beat him and who's going to be, you know, from the New Japan side, even though he is working for them for sure, but I they don't see him as like a homegrown guy, I don't think.

29:55.776 --> 30:04.326
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if one of the other things I was thinking about is if the concession that Tony, like, okay, Tony concede to Cam, I'm going to let him kind of, you know, do this match.

30:04.694 --> 30:14.671
[SPEAKER_01]: As what I want return is I want the first to caught it to Keshe to match and I want it in a W. Although, I know actually not nice.

30:14.691 --> 30:19.098
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, because because to Keshe is the world champion, New Japan is going to be protective of that.

30:19.639 --> 30:26.871
[SPEAKER_01]: So either he's going to beat Keshe to that as New Japan, as I WGP champion, possibly in the C2.

30:27.374 --> 30:31.359
[SPEAKER_01]: or they're going to wait until he loses the belt and then, and then they'll have the match.

30:31.399 --> 30:41.671
[SPEAKER_01]: But but it could also be, yeah, it could be that maybe he wants, he wants to beat Takeshita while he's IWGP champion and the concession is, I'll let you have a cotter for the Tokyo Do.

30:44.414 --> 30:48.519
[SPEAKER_00]: That, it'll be, it'll be, it'll be interesting to see these stories come out how this thing.

30:48.679 --> 30:53.905
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because we were here in some pretty wild stuff of the relationship between New

30:54.273 --> 31:01.241
[SPEAKER_00]: like, you know, like, some behind the scenes, really weird stuff, you know, stemming to some extent, you know, Tony has all their guys.

31:01.342 --> 31:03.785
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's part of the reason why they're not hot is, yeah.

31:04.325 --> 31:10.353
[SPEAKER_00]: And all those guys were going to leave anyways because of the, you know, the, just how bad business.

31:10.573 --> 31:17.361
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they weren't going to stay there, but yeah, you know, it just that easy transition to AEW and now.

31:17.601 --> 31:18.703
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, you know, Tony's guy.

31:18.823 --> 31:20.305
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't want Tony at that show.

31:20.345 --> 31:23.048
[SPEAKER_01]: He might take a look at Yoda Suji and say, yeah, I want this guy too.

31:25.441 --> 31:27.545
[SPEAKER_00]: flash and I can have my Japanese Roman.

31:29.849 --> 31:33.155
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so what is your next topic?

31:34.397 --> 31:35.138
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you remind me?

31:37.242 --> 31:40.027
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually I can smack that.

31:40.047 --> 31:41.350
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

31:41.370 --> 31:42.351
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.

31:42.371 --> 31:46.639
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and this is something that people have been talking about for a while and I've kind of been

31:47.125 --> 32:10.028
[SPEAKER_01]: pooping in a little bit just because you know like I think a lot of it is people just wishing hoping that WWE is going to go down because they've been hot for so long and they love a W or the hate WWE probably more the latter and so they want you know they want the business to go down and then they're looking at some of these these gates specifically smack down and

32:10.008 --> 32:15.796
[SPEAKER_01]: and that they're down and then you know Brad and Thurston published something a little while ago where he compared.

32:15.816 --> 32:32.819
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was quarter three all these the whole year but even like specifically quarter three and how WWE, Rod, SmackDown tapings were like identical the last year in terms of ticket sold but you know the average ticket price had gone up like 40% so like you know TKales making like huge bank.

32:33.921 --> 32:39.829
[SPEAKER_01]: But recently and and even some of the upcoming dates the SmackDown is not

32:40.163 --> 32:43.166
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, um, they just had a show last week.

32:43.226 --> 32:58.541
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was like a week ago Friday where, you know, they did like 4700 in a 16,000 seed building, um, you know, and then, and then they've got to show coming up in December, you know, I think it was, we were 40 days out when I saw it.

32:58.601 --> 33:06.829
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's it's a little less now where they sold like 1900 in Grand Rapids and they had done like 10,000 last time they were there.

33:06.944 --> 33:10.929
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you can't ignore this stuff now.

33:11.270 --> 33:13.653
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they are starting to go down now.

33:13.813 --> 33:15.515
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it a lack of popularity?

33:15.636 --> 33:17.418
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it the ticket sales or two high?

33:17.999 --> 33:20.101
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they going back to some of these places too soon?

33:20.162 --> 33:22.485
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the Grand Rapids, they were there and me.

33:22.745 --> 33:23.786
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're coming back again.

33:23.806 --> 33:26.630
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe that's too soon.

33:26.690 --> 33:32.418
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny because what's his name, Mark Shapiro said, oh, we're not going to come back unless you pay his money.

33:32.478 --> 33:33.479
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's it.

33:33.579 --> 33:34.340
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're paying money.

33:34.360 --> 33:35.342
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why they're back soon.

33:35.402 --> 33:36.343
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

33:36.323 --> 33:41.790
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but it, you know, it is concerning now raw tickets are still hot.

33:41.870 --> 33:46.756
[SPEAKER_01]: You watch the show, the crowds are hot, the buildings are full, the people are over.

33:47.437 --> 34:01.774
[SPEAKER_01]: You watch Smackdown doesn't feel the same, you know, um, you, you've called it like the B show and I, I've kind of fought back on that on you a bit, but it's kind of feels like the B show right now, you know, like,

34:02.058 --> 34:04.922
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone someone that doesn't watch to be W.E.

34:04.942 --> 34:09.888
[SPEAKER_01]: asked us in the discord or asked me actually specifically, you know, what is what's up?

34:10.008 --> 34:11.710
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why is SmackDown so much lower?

34:12.311 --> 34:16.677
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, well, SmackDown has one top baby face and no top heels.

34:18.078 --> 34:21.863
[SPEAKER_00]: And they just lost another one of their top heels to a movie or whatever.

34:22.083 --> 34:22.564
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's up?

34:23.354 --> 34:24.095
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, right.

34:24.115 --> 34:32.028
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but but I wouldn't even call him a top heel now because they've been beaten them so much, you know, like so who's your top heel now solo.

34:33.270 --> 34:35.834
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's weak man.

34:35.894 --> 34:38.799
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Alistair Black was in the main event recently.

34:38.899 --> 34:44.147
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, but he just lost to Sammy are and or no, um.

34:44.414 --> 34:45.477
[SPEAKER_01]: or dragon off, right?

34:45.958 --> 34:48.184
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I didn't want to hear the first guy to challenge dragon off.

34:48.224 --> 34:54.239
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, and so they're probably going to bring Randy Orton back to probably turn him.

34:55.904 --> 35:01.478
[SPEAKER_01]: But Roman's on raw, even Cody goes on raw when he wants to do something important.

35:01.711 --> 35:08.688
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, it's like, I think it's just this thing with SmackDown where, you know, it's still on USA.

35:08.768 --> 35:10.071
[SPEAKER_01]: So it feels old.

35:10.652 --> 35:15.484
[SPEAKER_01]: It's on Friday night when, you know, so last night anybody wants to watch television.

35:15.599 --> 35:22.366
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, specifically wrestling, like it feels like that anyways, because people watch it, but they don't necessarily watch it in a timely fashion.

35:22.906 --> 35:27.871
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know, do you literally, do you know anybody that watches SmackDown life other than Joe G. Yeah, Joe.

35:27.891 --> 35:33.476
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but, but other not like in real life, do you know anybody know like you know people that watch raw.

35:34.517 --> 35:43.446
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I don't know anybody that watch SmackDown, like, you know, it's funny because those numbers that are out now that are so much lower than they were before.

35:44.422 --> 36:13.821
[SPEAKER_01]: I almost feel like these are the real numbers and the old ones were fake and I know I've listened to Dave and he's like well they can't be down that far but maybe they weren't really up like you're looking at it the wrong way you know maybe like I don't know but it this matches more how things feel than you know then then the numbers we used to get were it was like the most popular show on television yet nobody actually watches it you know I know that this

36:14.138 --> 36:24.434
[SPEAKER_00]: But I could see somebody using it to fit the narrative for John Cena meaning business because he used to be on SmackDown and now he's on Raw.

36:25.095 --> 36:26.437
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying the SmackDown.

36:26.457 --> 36:27.078
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.

36:27.218 --> 36:29.562
[SPEAKER_01]: That's another way to vote for Russia the air everybody.

36:30.944 --> 36:32.106
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got two matches left.

36:32.747 --> 36:34.730
[SPEAKER_01]: He is a five star classic with Dom.

36:34.970 --> 36:35.952
[SPEAKER_01]: That might be happening right now.

36:37.614 --> 36:39.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hey, you know.

36:39.755 --> 36:43.967
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he's going to do work games, which will be a, you know, that's going to have guaranteed four and a half stars.

36:44.187 --> 36:46.694
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, you think he's going to be in work games?

36:46.734 --> 36:47.717
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that the plan?

36:47.757 --> 36:49.602
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what the word is right now.

36:49.984 --> 36:53.393
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know how to get there, but I guess we'll probably find out tonight.

36:53.862 --> 36:57.350
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we it probably wasn't the best idea for us to go live.

36:57.370 --> 37:08.774
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I because I think like it looks like Dom and Ray now in San Diego, which is a great match for that city And and then that would you know, then that would mean Sina would need something and war games.

37:08.995 --> 37:09.496
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved it.

37:09.776 --> 37:12.462
[SPEAKER_00]: I love I loved it last week on Raw when

37:13.859 --> 37:17.184
[SPEAKER_00]: when Dom said, uh, don't talk about my dad that way.

37:17.324 --> 37:20.048
[SPEAKER_00]: Get your dad, get your, get my father's name out of your mouth.

37:20.488 --> 37:22.371
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, yeah.

37:22.391 --> 37:22.952
[SPEAKER_00]: That was awesome.

37:22.972 --> 37:23.973
[SPEAKER_01]: That was great.

37:24.814 --> 37:24.955
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

37:24.975 --> 37:25.716
[SPEAKER_01]: The kid has great.

37:25.776 --> 37:33.166
[SPEAKER_01]: Our buddy Chris our buddy Chris was on the F4W board and he was, he said, he had him in Zach had lunch with John Cena senior.

37:33.467 --> 37:34.508
[SPEAKER_01]: Mr. CNN, he was in college.

37:34.588 --> 37:39.555
[SPEAKER_01]: He did the angles and he, uh, he pitched him that they would do.

37:39.595 --> 37:41.638
[SPEAKER_01]: They would do a promo battle.

37:41.618 --> 37:50.109
[SPEAKER_01]: with seen as dad in the front row and he's like, well, I'm going to bear with my dad in San Diego, but I'm going to bear with you in front of your dad tonight.

37:51.291 --> 37:52.172
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a secret.

37:52.192 --> 37:54.215
[SPEAKER_01]: That was from little Zach came up with that line.

37:54.635 --> 37:57.980
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, yeah.

37:58.060 --> 38:03.688
[SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, I guess the the the last thing for we move on on the SmackDown thing.

38:04.829 --> 38:06.191
[SPEAKER_00]: They obviously need a shake up.

38:06.331 --> 38:09.195
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to even out these rosters a little bit.

38:09.715 --> 38:13.600
[SPEAKER_00]: But is Netflix just more important these days?

38:13.760 --> 38:26.938
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you keep the unevenness on the side of Netflix because you want to impress Netflix more than you care about impressing Versant or Comcast or whatever, NBC universal?

38:27.138 --> 38:33.327
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it might be, especially given that they don't even have the PLE's anymore other than NXT.

38:34.208 --> 38:38.794
[SPEAKER_01]: And SmackDown is not viewed by as many people.

38:39.415 --> 39:01.035
[SPEAKER_01]: the way SmackDown ratings are going like you know it might be they're going to be under a million they they were soon were on Halloween well that was for that home show but i'm talking about i mean they're not that far ahead of NXT and who knows what the real you know raw numbers are but i imagine they have an indication of what they really are

39:01.015 --> 39:27.630
[SPEAKER_01]: And between, you know, they're probably also looking at the socials in the YouTube and and all that and the raw stuff I've looked at it to and the raw stuff gets way more views than this Mac down and obviously like multiple times more than the NXT and it's it's it's the historical age it is like it is always yeah and and so if you're going to follow you know what's going on like even if you don't if you just are a casual of your WWE you're going to check out get what happened on rock.

39:27.610 --> 39:29.072
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's what I need to know.

39:29.112 --> 39:32.577
[SPEAKER_01]: You might and you might turn on Netflix and watch like, you know, skip through it.

39:32.618 --> 39:44.235
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, especially if you watch a couple of days later, you can watch with that little bar on the bottom and this is, hey, they're same punk, you know, there's, oh, there's Roman, you know, you know, oh, there's nobody I know, okay, that that was quick.

39:45.802 --> 39:49.829
[SPEAKER_01]: They've even got the hot women and by hot I mean hotter characters.

39:49.849 --> 40:12.366
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know so they mean you know they're they're looks But they're all they're all they're all right, but but I mean you know like you've got you know the the cookie warriors and what they're doing with Bailey and Even Becky like she's real over and whatever she's doing is important and Even Ria and or Roxanne and and Raquel is a nice little under her I mean well let's let's let's just say let's just say it here

40:13.831 --> 40:18.237
[SPEAKER_00]: Charlotte and Alexa are defending their titles against Kabuki warriors.

40:19.219 --> 40:20.080
[SPEAKER_00]: Where is that match?

40:20.681 --> 40:22.163
[SPEAKER_00]: What shows that match on Raw?

40:22.924 --> 40:23.565
[SPEAKER_01]: It's on Raw.

40:23.665 --> 40:28.653
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that makes sense because the the tag team champions are traveling titles.

40:28.673 --> 40:31.937
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, but their home brand is smack.

40:31.957 --> 40:32.438
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

40:32.458 --> 40:36.003
[SPEAKER_00]: And they put it on the you the should say you come to our show.

40:36.023 --> 40:37.065
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do we gotta go to your show?

40:37.085 --> 40:39.889
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is they didn't put it on

40:40.814 --> 40:45.718
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is I would argue this is a bigger match and anything we got on Saturday's made of it.

40:46.078 --> 40:50.742
[SPEAKER_01]: I know the world title matches on there, but CM Punk and J use so was not a big match.

40:50.762 --> 40:55.526
[SPEAKER_01]: This is this feels like a bigger match than then Punk and he's so invited.

40:55.546 --> 41:01.632
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's end this with my last topic here, which is, I don't even tell you this.

41:04.694 --> 41:10.399
[SPEAKER_00]: Have blood and guts and war games jump the shark.

41:13.552 --> 41:15.455
[SPEAKER_00]: Give a thought.

41:15.475 --> 41:15.936
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.

41:15.976 --> 41:25.370
[SPEAKER_00]: So blood and guts was fresh because we always wanted to see the NWA version of war games, like the us old school fans, right?

41:25.390 --> 41:28.696
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like, oh, they're going to do it like the old school war games.

41:29.477 --> 41:38.631
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they've actively done things to irritate the hell out of me, like having people walk out of cages in the match, not being over and stuff like that.

41:39.235 --> 41:45.269
[SPEAKER_00]: Then, you know, then they had the thing about where the big thing was about who's going to get pushed off the top of the cage.

41:45.289 --> 41:46.712
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that was kind of the big thing.

41:46.732 --> 41:49.819
[SPEAKER_00]: And on the WWE side, they changed the match.

41:49.839 --> 41:56.755
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's no top on the cage so they can do crazier moves and it's just a giant stunt show and people get hurt.

41:56.735 --> 42:14.339
[SPEAKER_00]: and they create feuds out of thin air just so they can have the match, whereas the match that used to have jumped the shark was hell in the cell, and they've actually reversed hell in the cell and made it a really good storytelling device.

42:14.419 --> 42:22.050
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, you know, the last one that we had was I think punk and Drew, and then the Cody and Seth one was so memorable.

42:22.030 --> 42:23.613
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they've limited those.

42:23.653 --> 42:26.237
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not like a specific hell on the cell paper view anymore.

42:26.317 --> 42:28.200
[SPEAKER_00]: So they've done a really good job of hell on the cell.

42:28.841 --> 42:33.889
[SPEAKER_00]: But now we're back to war games just being every month, creating teams out of thin air.

42:34.190 --> 42:35.552
[SPEAKER_00]: We got two on each show.

42:35.632 --> 42:38.096
[SPEAKER_00]: Now in the AW show, we have two blood and guts.

42:38.797 --> 42:40.099
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish it was just the women.

42:40.140 --> 42:43.545
[SPEAKER_00]: The men's blood and guts seem super shoehorned together.

42:44.086 --> 42:46.570
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm not into it at all.

42:46.550 --> 42:52.456
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sort of into the women's blood and guts, but just because they have all the most of the stars in it, at least.

42:53.678 --> 42:59.344
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I'm like not like as a as a, oh my gosh, I can't wait to watch that match.

42:59.724 --> 43:06.011
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting four war games-ish matches in a matter of like a week and a half.

43:06.031 --> 43:11.857
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's funny because I feel exactly the opposite of you with the with the AW matches.

43:14.280 --> 43:15.561
[SPEAKER_01]: Like

43:15.541 --> 43:22.318
[SPEAKER_01]: it was building to a work game smash, you know, between the death riders and the conglomeration in Darby.

43:23.220 --> 43:26.829
[SPEAKER_01]: The conglomeration is just a bunch of mid-carters though.

43:27.651 --> 43:30.799
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they shouldn't be, but yeah, they probably are.

43:30.779 --> 43:41.453
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I mean, if you look at previous ones, I mean, you know, we had Matt Minard and in one of these way, you know, like with Jake Hager, like, you know, it's not like these things have ever been stars.

43:41.533 --> 43:43.275
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always been faction against factions.

43:43.396 --> 43:54.650
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you know, and so the only other option would be hangman having like an all-star team of baby faces, but we don't really have enough of those baby face all stars around like, who's it?

43:54.690 --> 43:55.632
[SPEAKER_01]: Who would it be even?

43:55.652 --> 43:56.753
[SPEAKER_01]: Like who would be the top?

43:57.425 --> 44:01.714
[SPEAKER_01]: Who would it be, like Hangman, Darby, Orange Cassidy?

44:02.065 --> 44:06.972
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what yeah, I guess I need to take back what I said Orange Cassidy and Jay brisco or mark.

44:07.072 --> 44:09.216
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love a book of martyrs.

44:09.316 --> 44:22.696
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just the group, the conglomeration group in a self centered comedy set up with that stupid video and they, you know, it tells you that there, it's a funny, you know what drove me nuts and you probably didn't even see this was a couple weeks ago.

44:22.716 --> 44:25.860
[SPEAKER_01]: They had a match on collision and it was the conglomeration.

44:26.401 --> 44:29.085
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember who was in it, but commander was on the team.

44:29.521 --> 44:31.323
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like he's not on the conglomeration.

44:31.423 --> 44:37.990
[SPEAKER_01]: And no, it was the conglomeration guest starring commander he literally said that in the intro, that's okay, I'm on.

44:38.010 --> 44:42.615
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like when, you know, when a Julia Roberts guest start on friends, but the women like it to me, the women it just seems like, oh, it's work.

44:42.735 --> 44:42.956
[SPEAKER_00]: He's okay.

44:42.976 --> 44:52.626
[SPEAKER_01]: You, you, you, you, you, you and you, you, you, you, you, you, you, okay, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you,

44:52.606 --> 45:15.526
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I agree with you that there's not necessarily a great story there and it started out poorly from the beginning with the Jamie Hater and Almanada thing from way back when, but the unique thing about blood and guts is that the women are having a match, which is why I don't think the men should have had a match because you had the opportunity to make this thing special.

45:15.927 --> 45:17.770
[SPEAKER_00]: Like first time ever,

45:17.750 --> 45:26.719
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the important to these women and then you're like, no, we're going to shoehorn the men's match and and I agree with that and and it may be.

45:28.921 --> 45:47.200
[SPEAKER_01]: There may have been some pressure on put on Tony, you know, from the network, you know, like, you can do a woman's one, but we want to men's one, too, because we're worried about the ratings, like, you know, they might have been that I don't know that that, but I've seen that speculation and it kind of makes sense to me.

45:47.298 --> 46:08.900
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then as far as the, the, the, you know, the WWE side, I mean, Kate, what is when it's virus series, like two and a half weeks, right, or three weeks, we have not, they have not mentioned it, like we don't have a clue who's, who's wrestling on either, there's going to be two matches, I assume, four teams, we don't have the slightest idea.

46:08.940 --> 46:15.347
[SPEAKER_01]: We could make some educated guesses, but there's nothing that's really been building to,

46:15.749 --> 46:29.163
[SPEAKER_01]: The closest thing resembling us work games build, and this is not happening, I don't think, would be solos team against a bunch of the random baby faces on SmackDown that have been colliding with them.

46:29.224 --> 46:32.447
[SPEAKER_01]: But if that's their idea, oh my god, change it.

46:33.408 --> 46:41.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't not want to see solos team who bloodline in a feud against a bunch of SmackDown mid-Carp baby faces.

46:42.125 --> 46:47.392
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoever they are, I think it was like Carmelo and like I saw this and it was like, yeah, that makes sense, but no.

46:51.538 --> 47:03.475
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so what do you think so you're you're not choose to pick of them right now you're okay with I mean the matches are going to be good, but it's definitely not special like if I'm.

47:04.147 --> 47:09.540
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if I'm looking at Wednesday and I'm saying, I'm excited to my for these workings matches.

47:10.081 --> 47:18.320
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like maybe slightly more than a normal dynamite, but know where if I if I didn't have to watch dynamite this weekend, I'd be totally fine.

47:18.581 --> 47:19.202
[SPEAKER_00]: Or, or.

47:19.182 --> 47:23.726
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then wargames are, yeah, no wargames is kind of the same.

47:23.806 --> 47:30.852
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm definitely more looking forward, like if seen that and Dom were happening, I'd be more looking forward to that than either the wargames matches.

47:31.433 --> 47:35.316
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably looking more forward to Ravers' Dom if that is the match.

47:36.217 --> 47:38.219
[SPEAKER_01]: And anything, put it this way.

47:38.319 --> 47:48.548
[SPEAKER_01]: If somehow the women's wargames match involves the cookie warriors on one side and, you know, like maybe Lyra, Bailey,

47:49.000 --> 48:02.665
[SPEAKER_01]: made Charlotte and Alexa and someone else like I think I'd probably be into that, you know, just the way maybe you have Stephanie on that team and maybe you put Nikki Bella on the other team because I feel like she's turning Nikki Bella in a working match.

48:02.685 --> 48:03.847
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you imagine?

48:04.007 --> 48:08.335
[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like that would be the match I'd be most looking forward to on that card.

48:08.375 --> 48:09.557
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, not like

48:10.567 --> 48:20.948
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean compared to the Royal Rumble, like maybe like if Royal Rumble's like an eight this would be like a two and a half you know like you know I'm not yeah I don't care like I really don't you know.

48:21.653 --> 48:33.994
[SPEAKER_01]: And definitely probably more looking forward to blood and guts than I am to war games because I do think war games, it all it is now as a stunt show, whereas I think the women are really going to tear it up and blood and guts.

48:34.034 --> 48:47.256
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about the men, I think there's going to be some weird stuff, some shenanigans, some like Darby and Mox trying to kill each other and stuff, but I think the women are going to be like, they're going to go out and try to prove something and it could be really, really good.

48:49.666 --> 48:58.056
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, there's always, um, there's always intrigue for me when it comes to, uh,

48:58.407 --> 49:21.968
[SPEAKER_00]: you know who who looks good in matches like this right like who is uh who who who gains something from being in this match like ew right you would put the can on her head and do the dive and people would go crazy over that a poor bronze in last year like I almost killed himself um you jumping off the top of the cage uh but there's opportunity

49:23.197 --> 49:25.860
[SPEAKER_00]: to get over in these matches.

49:26.080 --> 49:28.102
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's one thing I kind of look at.

49:30.465 --> 49:45.261
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I just, if you were to ask me would I ever, again, I'm out on Dine My Thies Days, anyways, like John and I did a show last week where I was like, is Dine My Thies Days?

49:45.302 --> 49:48.285
[SPEAKER_00]: Like is it must see television, must see wrestling television?

49:48.365 --> 49:50.267
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure.

49:50.247 --> 49:53.431
[SPEAKER_00]: I watch that show and it feels like the same show every week.

49:53.451 --> 49:54.613
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

49:54.673 --> 50:05.607
[SPEAKER_00]: And Ron's back down, or kind of in the same boat, there's different things that some people get interested in on Ron's Mac done just because the production and the videos are so much better.

50:05.667 --> 50:11.655
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're just looking at the stories and the wrestling, they're all kind of just kind of walking in mud right now.

50:11.835 --> 50:17.723
[SPEAKER_00]: Raw has the advantage, I think, of the ability to create surprises.

50:17.872 --> 50:40.032
[SPEAKER_01]: that day W can't really do because I feel like they have the history they can bring people back and stuff like that where they W like even if they tried that stuff we would probably get out but even that they don't have the history so um i i that's why I feel like raw feels a little more must see than than dynamite but that said i didn't watch last week's raw until the weekend

50:40.366 --> 51:04.095
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it wasn't like I had any kind of urgency to see it and and dynamite I watch because I do the podcast, but if I, if it wasn't for the podcast, it would be, you know, be the same as Ron's Macdown, like I would watch it when I watch it, but it wouldn't be like, oh crap, I didn't such it's on now, you know, I feel kind of like that about tonight's raw, like I really, I'm going to try to get to raw as quick as I can because I really want to see what's going to happen tonight.

51:04.767 --> 51:13.415
[SPEAKER_00]: But, all right, let's, we can get out of here, but I do have one question, maybe a prediction, just because it's a little newsworthy.

51:14.716 --> 51:17.398
[SPEAKER_00]: So the, the Chris Jericho photo.

51:17.418 --> 51:34.774
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which was, the way that he filled the filtering and the photo shop or whatever they did to that photo, it looked weird to me, but I think the idea was that he is getting in better shape than he's been in,

51:34.754 --> 51:37.439
[SPEAKER_00]: So, do you think that means stupid of E?

51:37.459 --> 51:41.366
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I do.

51:42.067 --> 51:45.854
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the question is when, would Tony let him go early?

51:46.976 --> 51:49.079
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's done it before.

51:50.863 --> 51:51.143
[SPEAKER_01]: You know,

51:51.511 --> 51:58.402
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know people are speculating that it could be him in this in this tournament, but I think it was going to be him in the tournament.

51:58.422 --> 51:59.083
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to win it.

51:59.123 --> 52:00.345
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's going to happen.

52:00.445 --> 52:02.608
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'd say I'd say them for real.

52:02.628 --> 52:02.889
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

52:02.929 --> 52:03.149
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

52:03.369 --> 52:12.463
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the thing is if you do that wasn't you know the funny thing wasn't wasn't he supposed to do one of those Saudi shows and he ended up not doing it going Japan instead.

52:12.523 --> 52:16.810
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, kind of makes kind of poetic for him to return there.

52:18.747 --> 52:38.140
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think because the real rumble, you can tell a bunch of different stories and set up stuff for WrestleMania, he comes in, they figure out who he's going to work at Mania and they both, they're both in that rumble and he goes, you know, and he doesn't have to go all the way to the end, but he could go pretty late.

52:38.120 --> 53:01.039
[SPEAKER_00]: And then because of this other person they go out like whatever you want to want to do, but I think that's a better way than of him being in this John Cena thing because you know the the negative thing about this John Cena tournament is like you said if he doesn't win it, then he kind of looks like a goober, but the other thing is is that if he has a singles wrestling match right now.

53:01.593 --> 53:04.857
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not the best wrestling match of all time.

53:05.898 --> 53:09.502
[SPEAKER_00]: One side of the wrestling fan base is going to piss on him so bad.

53:10.703 --> 53:13.646
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would avoid that by having him back at the rubble.

53:13.787 --> 53:17.471
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he's, I think he's probably going to end up with program with AJ.

53:18.051 --> 53:18.612
[SPEAKER_00]: For some reason.

53:19.333 --> 53:21.455
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the, that was when AJ came.

53:21.655 --> 53:21.755
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

53:21.775 --> 53:24.599
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember when AJ came to have a review that was their first part of it.

53:24.619 --> 53:27.622
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think it was, I think people were disappointed by that one.

53:27.682 --> 53:30.385
[SPEAKER_01]: So it may be that they want to try to rectify that.

53:30.365 --> 53:32.910
[SPEAKER_01]: and then you know and then Jericho can see where he goes from there.

53:33.171 --> 53:38.622
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he'll probably get one last world title run, maybe not winning it, but going for it.

53:39.624 --> 53:41.888
[SPEAKER_00]: For Nendil says Jericho versus Jojory.

53:41.908 --> 53:43.291
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the big deal with Johendry?

53:43.311 --> 53:44.373
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do people want to see him in every single man?

53:44.393 --> 53:45.716
[SPEAKER_00]: People want him in this tournament too?

53:45.736 --> 53:46.017
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

53:46.037 --> 53:46.297
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

53:46.317 --> 53:46.578
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

53:46.598 --> 53:46.858
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

53:46.878 --> 53:47.419
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't I don't know.

53:47.440 --> 53:47.740
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

53:47.760 --> 53:48.021
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

53:48.041 --> 53:48.301
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

53:48.321 --> 53:48.622
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

53:48.642 --> 53:48.902
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

53:48.923 --> 53:49.183
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

53:49.163 --> 53:52.134
[SPEAKER_00]: He could be in the tournament, but you already know it's going to happen.

53:52.154 --> 53:55.526
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to lose because every time he's on to every TV.

53:56.128 --> 54:01.266
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what, you know what, the plus to Joe is going to be like if Matt, if they keep him and feed it together.

54:01.718 --> 54:03.421
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's a matter of time and man.

54:04.022 --> 54:11.615
[SPEAKER_01]: I those tea together that was so much fun on NXT on was that where she is now and she was yeah, yeah, they didn't even did a song.

54:11.715 --> 54:15.161
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I believe in the I like her.

54:15.281 --> 54:22.413
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she I hope she comes out and she does like she dresses like him and she does the same thing and she's so animated it.

54:22.433 --> 54:23.234
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of fun.

54:23.294 --> 54:25.498
[SPEAKER_01]: She popped out of a cake on NXT.

54:25.598 --> 54:26.680
[SPEAKER_01]: It was awesome.

54:27.824 --> 54:28.606
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

54:28.646 --> 54:29.367
[SPEAKER_00]: That is it from here.

54:29.688 --> 54:34.518
[SPEAKER_00]: So we will we will be back probably next.

54:34.658 --> 54:34.999
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

54:35.099 --> 54:36.883
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll have some more takes though.

54:36.923 --> 54:40.771
[SPEAKER_00]: We won't have like two weeks worth of missing shows to build up our takes.

54:40.791 --> 54:41.673
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll have to come up with stuff.

54:41.693 --> 54:43.958
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they'll be we can do it from just this week.

54:44.379 --> 54:45.160
[SPEAKER_00]: Full gear preview.

54:45.180 --> 54:46.002
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe for sure.

54:47.045 --> 54:47.726
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right.

54:48.688 --> 54:50.872
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, full gear is already next weekend, oh my god.

54:51.554 --> 55:02.415
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, not this weekend, next weekend, but anyways, all right, uh, for Paul, I am double G, we will see you when we see you, by the way, thanks for hanging out for Nando as always.

55:02.555 --> 55:03.737
[SPEAKER_00]: Peace out.