Vince McMahon's 1984 Power Play: MTV, NJPW, Heenan & Sammartino Returns | Observe This!

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we're back with observe this driving and I or hang it out and you know, I was I've been I've had a like a bad cold for these last couple days and I was like, you know what I need to power through I need to be ready because I'm so excited to do this show so in case my voice or whatever goes out that that is why, but I am excited I have the energy I arrested up you know, I rarely I can probably count.

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[SPEAKER_00]: on one hand.

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[SPEAKER_00]: How many actual sick days I've taken at work over the last few years?

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I take my vacation, but that's this cold kick my butt.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I did take a couple of days off, but I'm well rested and I can see year well rested too with your championship hat,

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[SPEAKER_00]: for the LA Dodgers on your head.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we will talk about some 1984 wrestling, the fall of 1984 as we can catch up for your work.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, the new book came just came out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I got it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I got it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I got it right here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and there's a story in there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's right around Russell Mania one time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably maybe right after Russell Mania one who are Dave says that this is the last ever issue of the wrestling observer newsletter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and I asked him about it on air.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, you know, what happened and he said, well, I was, I was such a fan of territorial wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I just knew that that was, it was over.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I'd seen it coming.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I knew it was, it was going to be the end of, of the territories, you know, for the last couple of years, but at that point, it felt like it was going to be over.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was working in a different job.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He, he said he was doing high school sports in turtleneck.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I still just kept in touch with people, I was writing letters and I was on the phone and I just realized like why I should just keep writing these and he's I don't even know if you missed an issue.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'll have to catch up when I read the 85 book, but he was he was still keeping in touch with a wall of Yamaguchi from kind of And you know the guy that was on the the observer Hall of Fame ballot

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[SPEAKER_00]: who was kind of like the guy in Japan, who kept him well connected.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure he was talking to that dude constantly as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Probably on the fax machine.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was getting the faxes.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure that's the other one for Japan.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Remember, it's only for Japan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, this show is the only show that we're doing this week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're pre-recording it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: the rest of the fight game media network has the holiday week off.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so wanted to pre-record something just so we had something to feed on YouTube and in the audio feed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully folks are hanging out with their families if they can and if not just chilling and relaxing and able to kick back and listen to us.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Lately, I'd said, hey, should we do something about Thanksgiving wrestling?

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, man, we've done that so often.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we will not specifically do that, but I wanted to mention at the end of this week, we will have a survivor series recap in the feed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's just we won't have the normal Monday through Friday.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's wait, you know, sir, I'm getting the bug, man, it's it's it's it's about 90 minutes for me.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, this, uh, NN by, no, no, not yet, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: No, it'll be this quick.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I was I'm getting confused when you're going to drop this, but anyways, uh, I'm thinking about heading out there to San Diego, maybe we'll see how the prices are because they're ridiculous, but, um, if I go find something on the cheap and by that, not it's still going to be expensive, but something reasonable, I'll head out there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like it was really exciting and I don't stay that often about either company, uh, you know, but it was I just felt very excited.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was awesome and and yeah, I kind of want to be there now, we'll see you though.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That raw, the one that you're talking about was the Madison Square Garden raw and I like, there have been better shows.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But for one night, it just seemed like almost everything they did clicked on that show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they had all the stars pretty much all the stars, which, you know, it's funny when people kind of wonder if there's an A and a B show, smack down it's clearly the B show, even though Cody is Russell's mostly on that show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But they still tee up everything on that raw, whenever they want to get big stuff over.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, I was just like, man,

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, whenever they have been there, we've talked about this all year long, the malaise of the creative, but when they want to, they can still make it feel important and that's what they did on that on that Madison Square Garden Raw.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: No, it was fun.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And again, one of the things people always asked me like, why was the big difference between AWS?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Is that, is that ability to make something look big, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: That because again, there was, I don't think there was any kind of like five star matches on Raw.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was, but as a show, it was memorable.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I remember the show.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Remember the closing angle.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I remember the scene of a segment, you know, and we part of the fight, there would be just all about the moment, right, but yeah, there's no how to build those moments like great and and so yeah, I mean, one of the KOB guys actually went to the show and he told me how much he paid, I'm like, dude, I think he paid like 350 bucks for like,

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[SPEAKER_02]: I was in exactly nosebeats, but it was getting there and I was like man, you let's just hope you know wrestles at the very least and he did he did he did good for you know I hope you got his money's worth, but yeah, so I don't know what see

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so I do want to save, we'll talk about this at the end, but you know, I am interested in your thoughts on kind of how how the scene a retirement thing has been as well as the Tana-Hashi retirement, because both guys retiring in the same right on the same timeframe, it's kind of ridiculous if you think about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, what what major athlete, you know, it's magic Johnson and Larry Bird retiring at the same time, not quite that level because wrestling is not quite at that level, but it's kind of like to those, you know, representative of wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of what it is, which is pretty interesting.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, they have a lot of similarities.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about it at the end.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, well, well, but let's get through 84 the fall.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what happens right around this time?

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[SPEAKER_00]: is Wendy Richter against the fabulous mula on MTV.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now we talk about this sometimes, which is that a lot of this stuff happens kind of after or kind of before we really started paying attention.

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[SPEAKER_00]: When would have been the first time you saw these MTV shows that that WWE F did in in in in 84 and 85?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I saw them on compilation tapes like in the late 80s because I was at this point I was

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it was wild to me when I learned that they actually had wrestling shows item TV.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, how what?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Why?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what's going on here?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then you realized that, you know, that was a partnership for two years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that was them utilizing that new audience for the rock and wrestling and stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But pretty fascinating.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And in person wrestling,

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[SPEAKER_00]: they do utilize pop music with the entrances around this time, putting together music videos.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, progressing was kind of on, you know, up to speed with the pop culture stuff of this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But actually working with MTV is kind of a different level.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, I was trip out when I think about Vince McMahon having to work, you know, deciding to work, do some stuff on MTV.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I have a question for you because this is interesting to me first.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they did a couple.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They did the war to settle the score and the brawts who settled it all or something like that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Where do you think Vince McMahon?

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[SPEAKER_02]: How do you think that he, I wonder where he got the idea to think so much outside the box because he didn't get caught in the trappings of a promoter, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And even even the smart promoters, they always worked with the parameters that have been established for them, you know, years prior by promoters before them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But Vince came with the whole new idea.

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[SPEAKER_02]: because those shows, it's not even like you said, it's celebrities and all that, but it's not even like, he's got no interest in in-ring work.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like he doesn't care and that goes to the point where like those were one hour specials, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And he only had like two matches and the majority of the show has spent interviewing celebrities talking about the match.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're talking about,

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[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe what maybe less than 20 minutes of ring time for a one hour show and the rest is literally all interviews hype interviews hype videos and and think about that time nobody was doing that and only was nobody doing that it seems like it's the wrong thing to do.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And somehow Vince just stuck to his guns and did it anyway, was it because he didn't grow up a fan of the business.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't understand where he got this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I understand where he got the ideas.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't understand what motivated him to go through with the ideas.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And they didn't seem preposterous to him at the time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's where it's just amazing to me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, the idea of WrestleMania wasn't necessarily his original idea like pro wrestling had been done, you know, at the arena showing it on the big screens and stuff before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so it's like not like that was necessarily unique, but yeah, like I mean, who do we give the credit to?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because obviously Cindy Lopper is kind of the connection there, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So she and Captain Lou are seated next to each other on a flight and they strike up a conversation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Captain Lou is the key or is like the hook.

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[SPEAKER_00]: for Cindy Lopper to be connected to WWE F and then Vince and Cindy, I wish there was like footage of their conversations of like who like had who convinced who did Vince go like, hey, you know, we want to work with you or did she go like, hey, I would love to work with you guys, like what who gets more of the credit there, that would be an interesting, I've never actually, maybe that one guy for Dave, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't need to ask Dave about that because, you know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't know if you watched the Cindy Lopper documentary, but I think it's on paramount plus there's a little bit of wrestling stuff in there, but obviously not not a big deal, so you're not getting any hooks there and any time WWE talks about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's really about, oh, Hulk Hogan was just this giant person and Cindy Lopper, like they don't really talk about the nuts and bolts of it, but yeah, I do need to ask Dave about that because.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, is it, is it seen the big picture like you said or is it Cindy just on a article and like, hey, this is fun.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to do something like this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then all of a sudden, it just works out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's kind of interesting.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Another wild car we got to think about is Dick ever saw.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because Dick Ever saw, I know he, he really helped with production.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, look, look, look at the pre, the pre imposed Dick Ever saw era in WWE and you see a big difference in production.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the lighting rig is different, the presentation, the camera angles, and that came once he met Dick Ever saw.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So at the very least, I know that Dick Ever saw helped out with the production part, but this idea of,

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[SPEAKER_02]: getting the wrestlers over at you know I know this cliche is a company line they're not wrestlers are superstars getting them over as superstars by rubbing elbows with celebrities and really making that the focal point of the show with the risk of upsetting a fan base that's to me that to me is that the part that I can't find them is at that time there was there was no president for this he did everything for the first time there was no oh well they've already done it in

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think I think the camera saw a lot to do with it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I also want to say that David Wolff was a big wrestling fan.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So he might have a lot to do with all this as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so, and so yeah, I mean, it was interesting and it continues to this not now is just annoying right with all these like being able to get everything Just watch him on Netflix on on raw there all in the front row hanging out.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so, but it's because I was the same people fluffies always there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's always the same people over and over ice cubes kids always there, you know,

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he's everywhere though.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Who's the comic though that actually stood up Logan Paul or whatever who what is that guy?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the name.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but he's all over.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He's all always pretty big right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So here's the other thing though.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The idea for TNT, now I'm sure some of this was just ego, Vince wanting to get credit for a lot of the stuff you take, you know, he's he's a pretty good host though he is sort of, you know, he's very corny personality, but.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the idea of him being the host of this show and bringing his wrestlers on and thinking that he can actually do something like Johnny Carson would do, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to really have some sort of confidence to try and mirror a show after the tonight show with wrestlers like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That is a wacky idea right there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: but it was all satire though and I think we're supposed to see it as satire you know I mean he had Lord Alfred Hayes there who like the the absurdity of it made it interesting and to me it's funny that's my I love that I could eat that comedy all day long but like you said it is corny it's a little cheesy but I love that stuff just because

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[SPEAKER_02]: the lack of self awareness sometimes by both of them made it all that more funny.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then you had all these, all these personalities that were the real guys, the wrestlers.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you had, you had David Schultz, Schoen, a real gun, you know, stuff like that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it was, it was awesome.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But then again, like, like, I guess your question is, how did he think of that stuff?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And he went through with it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because like you just said, there's no precedent for it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that one was the misfire.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That one was the misfire, but I guess that's the answer, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I guess he just threw stuff at the wall and not everything stuck.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the stuff we remember the stuff that did stick, you know, the merchandise, you know, the wrestlers was a big deal.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And it got over and made them a lot of money.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But some of the stuff like the TNT didn't get over and we're trying to forget that stuff, you know?

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[SPEAKER_00]: As you can imagine, Big Dave is not a fan of the So Wendy Richter and Fabulous Mula match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He says, or he writes, my own opinion of the conclusion of the Mula Richter MTV thing is any possible advantage of being on MTV and picking up some members of a new audience was destroyed by how horrible that match was between Mula's age and Wendy's stage fright.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It may have been the worst bout I've seen all year.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That was a bad match, but there's Dave giving way more credibility to more great and then deserves.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the 9 million people or something watch that match or watch that hour of WWE FTV.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that was a big deal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, this is going to be a very WWF heavy episode, by the way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's only a few tidbits of information outside of Titan Sports.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So lots of people coming into the territory because obviously Vince's rating all of these places.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Nicolai Volkov redabius in WWF.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Vince actually announced on the TNT show that we just mentioned that Jerry Blackwell was coming in and even had him on the booking sheets, but Jerry Blackwell decided to stay with Furn.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't imagine Vince would have pushed Jerry Blackwell all that well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: No, he was a heavy guy, but he was very small.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he wouldn't necessarily have been a competitor for Hogan to me.

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[SPEAKER_02]: No, he would, he would have been like, like, the mass supers, not the mass supers star missed the wrestling tour or something.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm remembering correctly, I think the big thing with Jerry Blackwell was like, this fat guy can throw a dropkick.

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[SPEAKER_02]: No, you don't remember the real victim with Jerry Blackwell.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The real victim was when scheme gene, our boy scheme gene.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_02]: When on the hotline, and he said, a former world champion has passed away.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And it was Jerry Blackwell, you know, that's, that's the real thing with with.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And who was he trying to get people think it, think it was?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I want to say,

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[SPEAKER_02]: Rick Flare, maybe?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was wondering about that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It feels flare, warrior, somebody like that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But either way, it was a bait and switch and it was very unethical.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But that was scheme gene.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That's why that's why Vince made that parody of scheme gene because he would do stuff like that.

17:38.886 --> 17:39.126
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

17:40.128 --> 17:44.998
[SPEAKER_00]: So, what's interesting about this time period also is,

17:45.738 --> 17:50.122
[SPEAKER_00]: WWF and New Japan pro wrestling.

17:50.182 --> 18:06.657
[SPEAKER_00]: They still kind of need each other in a way because they have this partnership, Hogan would go back and then there would be some, Antonio and Noki would come over and there'd be some stuff that they would sort of trade off.

18:06.717 --> 18:15.745
[SPEAKER_00]: And they also got WWF also got a giant booking fee for their guys to go over.

18:15.725 --> 18:43.352
[SPEAKER_00]: Dave writes that Vince is causing trouble across the sea because there were members of the Japanese press who attended one of the MSG shows I think it was actually the one in which Mula and Richter had the match and they were banned for taking photos and kicked out of ringside areas and so no none of the newspapers and magazines from Japan had any photos of

18:43.332 --> 18:48.703
[SPEAKER_00]: what was Antonio Anoki winning a battle royal on that show.

18:48.763 --> 18:58.242
[SPEAKER_00]: And he also refused to allow Hogan to defend the WWE F championship in Osaka against Anoki.

18:59.084 --> 19:00.126
[SPEAKER_00]: And

19:01.085 --> 19:16.410
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Dave wrote that it's possible because, you know, he, he may still be thinking of of in 79 when when they did the little back and forth with back on Bob backland and so, but what this may have also been.

19:16.390 --> 19:33.664
[SPEAKER_00]: is that he was renegotiating with New Japan at the time to get that booking fee that I was mentioning for his talent to go over there because he eventually renegotiates for 500k, which was a giant increase over their previous agreement.

19:34.426 --> 19:35.007
[SPEAKER_00]: And

19:34.987 --> 19:47.645
[SPEAKER_00]: One of their leverages is that New Japan had all of these relationships with other companies like such in Mexico and stuff, but these other companies were pulling out, so it's like WWE F was kind of the game for them.

19:47.685 --> 19:55.797
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I wonder if some of that stuff with the Vince was just also leveraging kind of big brothering New Japan going like you need us more than we need you.

19:56.198 --> 20:03.304
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think so, because that would be the last deal they would sign by 85, they wouldn't be doing business with them anymore.

20:03.525 --> 20:04.305
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be done.

20:04.646 --> 20:13.173
[SPEAKER_02]: So, that's when the British Bulldogs had to make a decision with a state in the United States or go back to New Japan or Archipand.

20:13.193 --> 20:15.435
[SPEAKER_02]: They wouldn't end up going to Archipand when they quit that with WF.

20:15.455 --> 20:18.518
[SPEAKER_02]: But, yeah, so it seems like that would be the last one.

20:18.538 --> 20:26.205
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the $500,000 a year would be the last one they would sign.

20:26.185 --> 20:26.706
[SPEAKER_02]: you know.

20:28.047 --> 20:44.062
[SPEAKER_00]: And you mentioned the British Bulldogs, they are going to come up because Dave was really sad about Calgary going down and he was he was contemplating like stuff in in this in these issues.

20:44.102 --> 20:46.064
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll we'll we'll talk about it in a second.

20:46.945 --> 20:51.570
[SPEAKER_00]: So Sergeant Slotter, you had mentioned royalties just a couple minutes ago.

20:51.590 --> 20:54.893
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is

20:55.497 --> 21:11.228
[SPEAKER_00]: He puts his notice in to leave WWF and Dave thinks it's a negotiating play and the result is that Sarge was receiving a percentage of royalties.

21:11.512 --> 21:17.157
[SPEAKER_00]: And so Dave wrote that he's not sure if Hogan and Snooka also receive a percentage as well.

21:17.637 --> 21:29.468
[SPEAKER_00]: And he at the time said, most promotions don't give wrestlers royalty checks, but I do know Mid-South does and Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson were making some healthy change from it.

21:30.189 --> 21:32.671
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember when Sarge actually leaves?

21:32.831 --> 21:34.533
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it right around this time?

21:34.693 --> 21:40.658
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, he goes to the AWA.

21:41.414 --> 21:51.390
[SPEAKER_00]: If that was actually true that because it sounds like he was renegotiating his contract to get some of the merch and then maybe events just like said no, you're not getting anything.

21:51.522 --> 21:55.930
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, that's what happened from when I remember that was a story, even slaughter has talked about it.

21:56.811 --> 22:01.860
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, yeah, because there was also that deal with with GI Joe remember that.

22:02.241 --> 22:06.007
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, right, deal with GI Joe and and then some might want to get involved with that.

22:06.087 --> 22:09.093
[SPEAKER_02]: He wanted to because Vince felt like he was promoting sergeant slaughter.

22:09.513 --> 22:11.978
[SPEAKER_02]: So Vince deserves some sort of producer credit.

22:12.198 --> 22:15.724
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I'm sort of royalties from GI Joe to the company.

22:15.704 --> 22:18.147
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and Sergeant Slatter wasn't going to go for that.

22:18.167 --> 22:19.189
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, no, that's my money.

22:19.289 --> 22:22.774
[SPEAKER_02]: I came up with that with, you know, I hustle that that job.

22:22.794 --> 22:24.316
[SPEAKER_02]: So I deserve to keep the money from that.

22:24.676 --> 22:26.438
[SPEAKER_02]: So they couldn't, they couldn't agree on anything.

22:26.479 --> 22:29.422
[SPEAKER_02]: And he ends up leaving and I don't know.

22:29.543 --> 22:31.565
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it was the right move for Sardrona.

22:31.625 --> 22:43.421
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the cartoon did get them over, but, but he didn't have the production vehicle to promote him to sustain him being over because of GI Joe, because they the A, W, A was in really doing much at that point.

22:43.802 --> 22:43.922
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

22:43.902 --> 22:50.313
[SPEAKER_02]: and plus Vern was like he Vern didn't know what to do with somebody who's like being promoted nationally in a cartoon.

22:50.634 --> 22:51.755
[SPEAKER_02]: He didn't know how to promote that.

22:51.856 --> 22:55.883
[SPEAKER_02]: Vens would have known what to do with it, where as Vern didn't know what to do with that.

22:56.464 --> 23:07.783
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess in hindsight the consensus is that Sarge kind of messed up by leaving, you know, he should have stayed even though he had to maybe have to share a little bit of the pie with Vens, but Vens would have been able to know how to promote that.

23:08.236 --> 23:13.123
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, um, but then again, start was always going to be everybody was going to be second banana to hold in any way.

23:13.163 --> 23:27.805
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there was a glass ceiling for everyone and I kind of wonder if the fact that SARS did leave Vince, he probably always was thinking about him and in the back of his mind because he does come back in 1990.

23:28.446 --> 23:33.754
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, which leads to him turning heel to be the main heel at WrestleMania seven.

23:34.426 --> 23:34.746
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

23:35.107 --> 23:35.727
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

23:35.748 --> 23:36.088
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

23:36.148 --> 23:40.373
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to actually play the part in Vince going like you know what we got to bring this dude back.

23:41.154 --> 23:46.400
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then he does kind of become one of Vince's guys even after retirement for years.

23:46.440 --> 23:53.448
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean to this day, you know, you still see a large there was that point where once a year he would come out and squash one of the comedy guys.

23:53.848 --> 23:54.149
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

23:54.169 --> 23:54.809
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm all you know.

23:56.051 --> 23:59.775
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean

24:00.413 --> 24:05.242
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we'll never know what would have become if you were the state or, you know, but it's hard to leave.

24:06.485 --> 24:14.340
[SPEAKER_00]: John and I are covering Survivor Series 92 for F4W on our show.

24:14.360 --> 24:19.390
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we're also, we're not doing the live show on Thanksgiving, which would be normally in rear court.

24:19.410 --> 24:21.033
[SPEAKER_00]: So we we're going to pre-record something.

24:21.554 --> 24:22.877
[SPEAKER_01]: What is this?

24:23.802 --> 24:35.661
[SPEAKER_00]: So the reason I chose it is because there's a, there's that book that that came out about Titan in 1992, James Dixon wrote it, David and I brought James Dixon onto the show.

24:36.482 --> 24:41.490
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had some like really interesting things that he researched after the fact,

24:41.470 --> 24:52.229
[SPEAKER_00]: lots of berserker and roadway or hawk just going balls out crazy in the UK after that summer slam and during that summer slam show because he said that hawk was out of his mind.

24:53.290 --> 25:06.313
[SPEAKER_00]: That was it for Hawking in that company that that show was the end of him and then a lot of stuff with Brett Hart and Davy and you know Davy in the Anvil were doing part in pretty hard and

25:06.665 --> 25:13.638
[SPEAKER_00]: And Brett having to walk Davy through that match, even after they did gone through the whole thing.

25:13.678 --> 25:23.718
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Davy was in the ring and said, I, I'm forgetting everything you need to walk me through this Match and Brett having to carry job and all that stuff.

25:23.738 --> 25:25.922
[SPEAKER_00]: So because I read that book, I was like,

25:26.307 --> 25:30.455
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's rewatch this, let's rewatch the Saturday night's main event.

25:30.775 --> 25:33.140
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's rewatch the prime time wrestling or Mr.

25:33.200 --> 25:37.007
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfect turns and becomes savages partner.

25:37.327 --> 25:38.870
[SPEAKER_00]: Like all of that stuff is wild.

25:39.171 --> 25:46.965
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason for the ultimate warrior and Davey Boy being fired at the time,

25:46.945 --> 26:10.438
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you read Dave's reporting at that time, he didn't think it had it really anything to do with the drug stuff when in fact it actually does because they're getting growth hormone and the guy that they're getting growth hormone from gets busted and so warrior actually has to like, warrior has to tell him, but he actually gets kind of tricked into telling Vince,

26:10.418 --> 26:28.798
[SPEAKER_00]: like the news comes out that this dude gets busted and Vince calls warrior and warrior thinks that Vince knows already so then he just blabs it out as to as to what happened it so he had to this is iron man this was such a smart guy yeah that's an old acting yeah so so so he so Vince loved and warrior felt for it

26:28.778 --> 26:39.107
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, if I remember correctly, at this time, there's that doctor that Dave's been talking to in 92, the doctor claims that you can't get anything by him.

26:39.728 --> 26:41.129
[SPEAKER_02]: And so Dave believes them.

26:41.410 --> 26:46.054
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do it in 92, not later on, when it came out that, what was the deepest quail?

26:46.214 --> 26:47.115
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I think so.

26:47.615 --> 26:49.037
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, look at me, man, come on.

26:49.057 --> 26:50.098
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a good one.

26:50.338 --> 26:58.245
[SPEAKER_02]: And then what happens is that so Dave thinks that he's on the up and up, so he thinks it's not, it's going to do with drugs or, you know,

26:58.833 --> 27:02.358
[SPEAKER_02]: And later on, though, he would actually make correct.

27:02.458 --> 27:06.183
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I remember the 93 observers, there were big corrections, like, you know what?

27:06.323 --> 27:06.844
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they did.

27:06.924 --> 27:09.647
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were using a growth hormone.

27:09.748 --> 27:17.618
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was an interesting time, because they had to promote that entire show, like they had like a week to redo, reshuffle the deck.

27:17.598 --> 27:20.963
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's one of my favorite skids from Bobby Heenan, though, the wet weasel.

27:21.384 --> 27:25.710
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're a, we're a, we're a matchman, like I was thinking about you.

27:25.911 --> 27:26.552
[SPEAKER_02]: I want you.

27:26.592 --> 27:27.393
[SPEAKER_02]: And perfect.

27:27.413 --> 27:28.234
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, what?

27:28.274 --> 27:31.860
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he slaps perfect, but Heenan slaps perfect right in the face.

27:32.180 --> 27:36.026
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the usual, I'm the boss, you know, he did that with so many heels that turned on him.

27:36.727 --> 27:39.992
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, and then that's when, uh, perfect against the jug of water and throws it.

27:40.012 --> 27:43.217
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, the wet weasel, what a great angle.

27:43.197 --> 27:56.603
[SPEAKER_00]: So the reason why we're covering the, or the reason why I was reminded of that is that is right at the time where they bring Sarge back as kind of like the enforcer guy like the, you know, the guy who's in charge is right around that time frame.

27:56.663 --> 27:59.929
[SPEAKER_00]: So lots of lots of different stuff was happening at that time.

27:59.989 --> 28:02.654
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I didn't actually call them the sheriff if I'm not.

28:02.674 --> 28:03.636
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.

28:03.616 --> 28:14.566
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, and he would have that role and then he would be then he would be the one that DX would always clown on, you know, that would be he would have it up until then, but a chin and make fun of the chin all the time.

28:14.626 --> 28:14.847
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

28:15.068 --> 28:16.171
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

28:16.231 --> 28:16.512
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

28:16.592 --> 28:19.600
[SPEAKER_00]: So then back to 1984.

28:19.900 --> 28:45.132
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... jyd comes in of course you know that day is going to be all about the jokes but he said he's already junk food dognal he's are uh... he's he's i don't know if he's jfd yet but he's definitely talking about how bad jyd is in the ring so but they've they've right to make no mistake about it despite my personal feelings this guy could and should help the wwf at the gate

28:46.090 --> 28:48.152
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if he did when you think about it.

28:48.172 --> 28:49.854
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess in the southern states, he kind of did.

28:50.315 --> 28:55.080
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when I first started watching, I thought, junkyard dog was so cool.

28:55.780 --> 28:59.484
[SPEAKER_00]: And whenever him and Hogan were together, it meant something to me.

28:59.985 --> 29:01.407
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they tagged a few times.

29:01.487 --> 29:05.111
[SPEAKER_00]: It almost like, it kind of meant something to me when like Hogan had a buddy.

29:05.351 --> 29:07.553
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, oh, that's, you know, that their buddy.

29:07.573 --> 29:10.777
[SPEAKER_00]: So now that guy's like, my second favorite wrestler whatever, now's a little kid.

29:10.857 --> 29:11.998
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but Hogan was a buddy.

29:12.018 --> 29:13.299
[SPEAKER_02]: You know where that was going to end up.

29:13.319 --> 29:13.920
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know.

29:13.900 --> 29:18.748
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, um, to me when I was a little kid when made day with JYD.

29:18.788 --> 29:21.192
[SPEAKER_02]: So memorable was that he was in the cartoon as well.

29:21.753 --> 29:24.878
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was kind of like the the second baby face in the cartoon.

29:25.259 --> 29:25.840
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

29:25.900 --> 29:26.461
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

29:26.561 --> 29:27.402
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't forget that.

29:27.562 --> 29:29.766
[SPEAKER_02]: And so to me, that's what got him over with me.

29:29.746 --> 29:35.333
[SPEAKER_02]: Later on, when I discovered tape trading, I saw his mid-Southstab, I was like, okay, so that's a whole different, Jayway.

29:35.353 --> 29:38.798
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like jacks out dug in two different characters, you know, and different companies.

29:39.439 --> 29:42.963
[SPEAKER_02]: But as far as being a WWE F guy, he never really did anything for me.

29:42.983 --> 29:46.528
[SPEAKER_02]: He was very slow and didn't really ever do much, you know?

29:46.788 --> 29:51.214
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, yeah, I was kind of sad when he, uh,

29:52.173 --> 29:55.559
[SPEAKER_00]: when he lost the match at WrestleMania three to Harley race.

29:56.560 --> 30:01.048
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but he maintained to see it afterwards because he had the crown and everything.

30:01.108 --> 30:16.273
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so, at this point, like there's this, Bruce Beefcake, so Dave in previous issues had written about Eddie Hogan.

30:16.793 --> 30:17.774
[SPEAKER_00]: or dizzy hogan.

30:17.814 --> 30:20.437
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think it was all hogan any and dizzy.

30:20.837 --> 30:24.541
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he keeps saying like this might be hogan's brother.

30:24.681 --> 30:27.724
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure, but, you know, he's a guy.

30:27.764 --> 30:33.189
[SPEAKER_00]: And he doesn't connect Bruce beefcake to dizzy hogan quite yet.

30:33.209 --> 30:37.513
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he writes, uh, Bruce beefcake, who is Brutus?

30:37.794 --> 30:39.896
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe he's ever wrestled before.

30:40.456 --> 30:46.142
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he, and then he quotes

30:47.489 --> 30:51.353
[SPEAKER_00]: But as obviously going to get a buildup for reasons, I'd rather not talk about.

30:51.473 --> 31:02.024
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the reasons that Dave would rather not talk about is because when they originally had him, he was a gay stripper from San Francisco, California.

31:02.084 --> 31:02.985
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the gimmick.

31:04.206 --> 31:11.934
[SPEAKER_00]: And so Dave is like, I think that was Dave's way of saying, okay, this one's a little bit too much, you know, into the stereotypes.

31:12.494 --> 31:13.636
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you ever connect that?

31:14.216 --> 31:16.078
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't connect it until later on.

31:16.463 --> 31:29.022
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't connect it because I didn't really understand what the joke was, but then if you go back, you're like, oh.

31:29.862 --> 31:35.989
[SPEAKER_00]: the high knee like that was a joke on a finishing move for him at the time.

31:36.029 --> 31:49.204
[SPEAKER_00]: So but if you like if you watch some of the early stuff of him like there they're kind of deliberate about it but yeah I had no idea until like several years after when I realized what they were doing.

31:49.324 --> 31:56.832
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and he also wasn't like like the stereotypical gay spots you know he wasn't doing that either.

31:57.588 --> 31:58.910
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a gay stripper.

31:58.930 --> 32:02.935
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't gay, but his fans were gay.

32:02.975 --> 32:06.780
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had to like, because of his look and stuff.

32:06.800 --> 32:08.322
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's what the gimmick was.

32:08.382 --> 32:17.554
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, I don't know, it was, it wasn't, I don't think it was very well thought out, because, you know, you're playing on stereotypes, but at the same time,

32:17.990 --> 32:25.762
[SPEAKER_00]: San Francisco is just one place and if you want him to be from San Francisco, he should draw from San Francisco, but you're making fun of San Francisco.

32:25.822 --> 32:29.728
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not going to work like so I don't know just it probably very well.

32:30.510 --> 32:37.180
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I don't think it was meant to draw in San Francisco, I think they're using San Francisco for heat, you know.

32:37.160 --> 32:43.407
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's weird too, because when he was teaming with Dino Bravo and Greg the Hammer Valentine, like they didn't even sell any of that stuff.

32:43.447 --> 32:43.987
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't even get it.

32:44.007 --> 32:45.749
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just three guys that were wrestling.

32:45.829 --> 32:46.510
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.

32:47.331 --> 32:52.476
[SPEAKER_00]: So you want to know how much of a C-town San Jose was at this point.

32:52.576 --> 32:56.100
[SPEAKER_00]: So San Jose doesn't become an A-town until 1993.

32:56.140 --> 33:03.888
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm talking about WWE, because I'm sure Dave saw saw lots of really strong shows in San Jose when he was a kid.

33:04.348 --> 33:05.850
[SPEAKER_00]: But for me,

33:05.830 --> 33:11.959
[SPEAKER_00]: San Jose only had one arena and it was the civic auditorium and it holds like two or three thousand people, right?

33:12.439 --> 33:24.216
[SPEAKER_00]: So whenever there was rustling here, it was always the seashow and my very first live event was a hacksaw against DBRC as the main event.

33:24.897 --> 33:30.685
[SPEAKER_00]: And lots of people who didn't wrestle on television were on this show and it was a small, it was like five good imagine.

33:31.106 --> 33:35.652
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they have five matches or something like that.

33:35.632 --> 33:50.472
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking, um, there, there were people who were like local jobbers who I didn't even know because I just assumed everyone worked, you know, on television, but they were like local jobbers who, who I didn't even know who they were.

33:50.933 --> 34:00.846
[SPEAKER_00]: But at this point, here, I'm going to give you a card for the San Jose show September 20th, 1984.

34:02.007 --> 34:07.521
[SPEAKER_00]: Mad Dog Vashan versus Dick Murdock is your main event.

34:08.924 --> 34:10.468
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was going to be the first match.

34:11.370 --> 34:14.879
[SPEAKER_00]: Adrian Adonis, against Offa.

34:15.822 --> 34:16.664
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

34:16.684 --> 34:19.611
[SPEAKER_00]: Big John Stud against Sika.

34:20.333 --> 34:23.998
[SPEAKER_00]: And the iron sheek versus Dave just has wells.

34:24.098 --> 34:29.646
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if this is George Wells, because George Wells would have been in mid south.

34:29.666 --> 34:30.807
[SPEAKER_00]: I think at this point.

34:30.827 --> 34:32.289
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just no one named Wells.

34:32.890 --> 34:35.994
[SPEAKER_00]: And he puts another monumental events.

34:36.515 --> 34:41.642
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's like the kind of cards that would come to sound as they until they built the shark tank.

34:41.802 --> 34:45.447
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that's when we started to get all the dead.

34:45.427 --> 34:55.065
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how Vince uses the summons for two matches and they probably were the main draws out here.

34:55.145 --> 35:03.139
[SPEAKER_00]: I would guess because there's no Hispanic wrestlers on there's no Mexican wrestlers on this on this one.

35:03.179 --> 35:05.984
[SPEAKER_00]: So you had to be that the needle wasn't full for that show.

35:06.525 --> 35:08.008
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't see Tito.

35:09.068 --> 35:31.332
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, 1993, I think it's like November is like the first A card that that comes to to San Jose and then by then the Cal Palace was the B show Oakland Coliseum was still but but because that building was the new building then then that was like that that we would get all the A, the A house shows.

35:32.613 --> 35:36.898
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, at this point Vince fires Bob backland.

35:37.570 --> 35:47.029
[SPEAKER_00]: and Dave writes, the reason backlem was fired was because Vince wanted him to die his hair and turn heel and Bob refused.

35:47.049 --> 35:51.498
[SPEAKER_00]: Vince then explained to Bob, his morals were too high for this business.

35:52.219 --> 35:56.187
[SPEAKER_00]: Bob was practically in tears after getting the pink slip.

35:56.825 --> 36:00.849
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's kind of messed up, but Bob has always been a person.

36:00.869 --> 36:02.992
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if this is gimmick.

36:03.252 --> 36:13.222
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt like Bob always lived the gimmick and because he also had a story that like he couldn't read and write so he was like in his like 40s or something like that.

36:13.783 --> 36:16.526
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean he's he's always out there with those stories.

36:17.547 --> 36:22.292
[SPEAKER_02]: But he would go to the AWA like it's like every outcast would hit the AWA.

36:22.272 --> 36:25.780
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he would leave the business for like seven years.

36:26.341 --> 36:33.698
[SPEAKER_02]: And he said he was working installing dry walls, throwing the rod net, and then he comes back in 92 for that run with Vince.

36:34.179 --> 36:35.402
[SPEAKER_02]: And Vince turned on me.

36:35.442 --> 36:36.364
[SPEAKER_02]: So he got what he wanted.

36:36.384 --> 36:38.349
[SPEAKER_02]: Like Vince always wins without these wrestlers.

36:38.649 --> 36:40.213
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

36:40.193 --> 36:42.376
[SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, yeah, so that was it.

36:42.416 --> 36:44.979
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's gone to back now.

36:44.999 --> 36:49.185
[SPEAKER_02]: If he would have been now, we would have gone to the back back in the hill run against Hogan, right?

36:49.225 --> 37:00.760
[SPEAKER_02]: Because he never got his, he never got, oh, he did get it about 20 years later, but at that time he never, he never got his revamped or whatever for for Arne throwing the towel in.

37:01.040 --> 37:01.421
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

37:01.881 --> 37:02.522
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

37:02.502 --> 37:03.363
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just dropped.

37:03.423 --> 37:11.316
[SPEAKER_02]: It was never, they never brought up up until he came back and turned here in 94, then he attacked Arnie's skull in for that, you know, many, many years later.

37:11.737 --> 37:12.017
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

37:13.059 --> 37:16.685
[SPEAKER_00]: Hang on one second.

37:16.705 --> 37:17.426
[SPEAKER_00]: Bless you.

37:17.446 --> 37:17.687
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

37:17.707 --> 37:24.538
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a real sneeze, but at least you know, you know, as a side note, which tends to be, which is becoming the norm on this show.

37:25.299 --> 37:28.965
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that I would always

37:29.705 --> 37:33.049
[SPEAKER_02]: is that he's kind of promo on diesel in 1994.

37:34.130 --> 37:36.853
[SPEAKER_02]: And he calls him Kevin Nash.

37:36.873 --> 37:40.116
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, it didn't make sense to me into years later.

37:40.196 --> 37:43.060
[SPEAKER_02]: But I remember Vibilies as the 13 year old watching that.

37:43.660 --> 37:53.431
[SPEAKER_02]: And because I knew his real name because there was a couple of non-K-fade magazines that were coming on the new stands that would actually reveal their real names.

37:53.771 --> 37:57.315
[SPEAKER_02]: So I knew he was talking about diesel, but nobody had called him Kevin Nash yet.

37:57.565 --> 38:03.211
[SPEAKER_02]: So like Kevin Nash, you took my belt at the garden I wanted back and I'm like that's weird.

38:03.472 --> 38:07.736
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if that was Bob just not caring because it was in life so Vince could have reed it itself.

38:07.776 --> 38:07.977
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

38:07.997 --> 38:10.059
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was his wacky Bob back in the stories.

38:10.079 --> 38:16.446
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, do you remember in the observer when Dave would run down the paper views, he would put the real names in parentheses?

38:17.127 --> 38:26.998
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but sometimes he would get wacky because for Flash Funk, he would put two

38:27.620 --> 38:40.144
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, now this is where Dave gets sad about the Bulldogs because Stu Hart sells stampede to Vince and Dave and this is this is quite the paragraph here.

38:41.035 --> 38:43.680
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, this is Dave, 1984, Dave.

38:44.501 --> 39:00.591
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't think of anything short of flare retiring that would more adversely affect me being a wrestling fan than watching those two phenomenal athletes he's talking about dynamite and debut boy wasting away their talent in McMahon's traveling circus.

39:01.152 --> 39:04.478
[SPEAKER_00]: Because of dynamite size, I'm sure Vince will bury him.

39:04.458 --> 39:19.586
[SPEAKER_00]: parentheses or have him so filled with Hulk a mania protein powder and the other ingredients even more vital to Hulk's 19.5 inch pythons that his speed and agility will be negated along with his work rate.

39:20.608 --> 39:25.116
[SPEAKER_00]: He was so sad that the dynamite kid was going to WWE F.

39:25.771 --> 39:30.318
[SPEAKER_02]: and typical Dave, he even gives the shoot a size of the Python's.

39:30.659 --> 39:32.061
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't say 24 inches.

39:32.421 --> 39:34.324
[SPEAKER_02]: He says 19.5 inches.

39:35.787 --> 39:38.731
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, he does, he loved the bulldogs.

39:38.791 --> 39:43.579
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the whole time he's been, remember British, David Boy was the best wrestling in the world.

39:43.839 --> 39:45.802
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a month back in one of our shows.

39:46.343 --> 39:48.707
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is, he's definitely feeling it, you know?

39:48.687 --> 39:55.599
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm that I'm hearing this because now I know that Ray Phoenix wasn't the first time this happens.

39:55.620 --> 39:56.722
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm happy to hear that.

39:57.022 --> 39:57.303
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

39:57.323 --> 39:57.683
[SPEAKER_00]: So here.

39:57.723 --> 39:58.525
[SPEAKER_00]: Now here's a question.

39:59.266 --> 40:10.847
[SPEAKER_00]: Because to me as a Hogan fan and I was indoctrinated into wrestling with Hulk Hogan, what the bulldogs to me were like a Oh!

40:10.996 --> 40:28.836
[SPEAKER_00]: like this is the other part of wrestling that is actually really exciting, which is that this match and getting behind these baby faces and tag team wrestling where, you know, you have like these really incredible guys doing these crazy things and you know, which is a way different match than a Hogan match.

40:28.816 --> 40:35.764
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think they weren't quite as influential as Hogan was to me, but they were like next.

40:35.924 --> 40:39.969
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like Hogan and then the Bulldogs, as I was growing up.

40:40.270 --> 40:52.444
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then you would know that when they did lose the tag straps to the heart foundation, I was pretty heartbroken and I didn't really know the stuff about Dynamite's back until a little bit later.

40:53.082 --> 40:58.673
[SPEAKER_00]: But they, I feel like the bulldogs in they weren't even there that long.

40:58.733 --> 41:06.047
[SPEAKER_00]: They were there from like late 84 to 88 maybe, uh, they left that Survivor Series 88.

41:06.067 --> 41:15.546
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when they had so full four years and like you said they're still going to Japan at some point until they can't go anymore.

41:15.526 --> 41:21.373
[SPEAKER_00]: But in that four years, I feel like, because everyone says, oh, the heartys are so influential.

41:21.493 --> 41:23.636
[SPEAKER_00]: And the heartys are an influential tag team.

41:24.176 --> 41:29.162
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that it kind of starts with the Bulldogs in WWE F and 84.

41:30.163 --> 41:32.526
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it carries on to some of these other teams.

41:33.167 --> 41:38.854
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's why I vote for the Bulldogs for the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame still to this day.

41:39.114 --> 41:42.478
[SPEAKER_00]: I voted for them the last couple of years.

41:42.458 --> 42:00.359
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that if the heart is an edge and, you know, edge and Christian aren't on the ballot, edges on the ballot, but some of these other tag teams, like you kind of can't not that you can't, you always can, but I feel like it's not good if the heart is going before the Bulldogs.

42:00.379 --> 42:05.906
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a Bulldogs are influential and then the heart is can be influential after that.

42:06.006 --> 42:06.707
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know.

42:06.787 --> 42:09.310
[SPEAKER_00]: The hearties have the longevity, of course, but

42:09.290 --> 42:22.666
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I agree with you 100%, it was really only two years of exclusivity because from 84 to 86, there were still going back and forth to Japan and Vince, Dave is wrong here because Vince actually doesn't bury them.

42:22.806 --> 42:26.771
[SPEAKER_02]: Vince actually kind of put some in their own little kind of sandbox, right?

42:26.791 --> 42:31.416
[SPEAKER_02]: That he, they, they're, they're kind of another part of the show, which I think is good booking.

42:31.396 --> 42:34.261
[SPEAKER_02]: Because in Japan, that's how the junior heavyweights were booked.

42:34.281 --> 42:45.460
[SPEAKER_02]: There are a whole other separate part of the show and then the heavyweights the real draws They get the main event And also another thing to is that he for for the mostly for the time they were there.

42:45.500 --> 42:51.430
[SPEAKER_02]: They were the tag champs So that means that both David and Dynama were getting championship money because back then

42:51.410 --> 42:56.276
[SPEAKER_02]: If you were the IC champ world champ and tax champ, you were still getting that difference on your check.

42:56.336 --> 43:01.103
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't just this k-phase belt that it is now where there's no differences on your check.

43:01.563 --> 43:08.553
[SPEAKER_02]: Back then, if you were the the tax champ, you were probably headlining a sea town, which means you were going to hit the bulk of that of that house money.

43:09.053 --> 43:12.658
[SPEAKER_02]: So, so they were making a lot of money during that time.

43:13.668 --> 43:37.988
[SPEAKER_02]: to the point where I remember dynamite in his book that I have, that's out of print by the way, one of the best books on professional wrestling pure dynamite, when he divorces his wife right after WrestleMania three, he says that he left a $20,000 check on the desk or whatever on the drawer right there and then he just left, and that was his payout for WrestleMania three, 20 grand for one day's work in 1987.

43:38.149 --> 43:40.232
[SPEAKER_02]: That's crazy to me.

43:40.212 --> 43:47.345
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so they were making big money, they were promoted as a top act, you know, as the Bulldogs, uh, they were not buried.

43:47.405 --> 43:50.671
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody, they were never fed to anybody, any of the Andre or any of that.

43:51.071 --> 43:53.175
[SPEAKER_02]: So I, I think the role was the success.

43:53.235 --> 43:58.845
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, would Dave once all these five star matches are just not going to be the norm and then we did the last.

43:58.825 --> 44:09.701
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they can, right, because they're always on the road, you cannot have five star matches in the WF at that time because they were thinking about the next night, you know, and they were thinking about protecting themselves.

44:11.163 --> 44:20.597
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and even then, they would give you their all every night out, maybe not five stars, but you, how are you going to have five stars against any boulder or whatever the album.

44:20.617 --> 44:22.700
[SPEAKER_02]: They were feeling with the dream team for a lot of their run.

44:23.060 --> 44:24.242
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

44:24.222 --> 44:30.330
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's impossible to have five star matches with beef cake, but yeah, I think it was a success.

44:30.410 --> 44:32.781
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was a successful run that the ones they had.

44:33.571 --> 44:34.012
[SPEAKER_00]: They have it.

44:34.032 --> 44:37.035
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a new book on the Bulldogs that I picked up.

44:37.055 --> 44:37.976
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't came out last year.

44:38.557 --> 44:57.098
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm I'm looking forward to checking that one out because, you know, you know, when you when you realize a lot of times when you reflect back on what kind of got you excited and then you do the math and you realize that these guys were such a small amount of time together.

44:57.078 --> 45:02.791
[SPEAKER_00]: compared to some of the teams today and how long they can exist like the heart.

45:02.812 --> 45:03.293
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the heart.

45:03.313 --> 45:04.295
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been together forever.

45:05.217 --> 45:12.775
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you go, man, you know, but those four years, I'll put them up against, you know, any four years of WWF tag teams for me.

45:12.755 --> 45:16.220
[SPEAKER_00]: when it comes to the impact that they made on me as a wrestling fan.

45:16.280 --> 45:24.933
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, one of the teams that you said right now, that people from my generation, maybe people that are younger than me, have these big memories as edge and Christian.

45:25.955 --> 45:30.021
[SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, they were only run for two years from 99 to 2001.

45:30.001 --> 45:33.024
[SPEAKER_02]: And to their credit, they never actually teamed up again.

45:33.084 --> 45:34.345
[SPEAKER_02]: Was it had that first feud?

45:35.386 --> 45:38.308
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were together in the same company for years, and they never teamed up again.

45:39.249 --> 45:40.470
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, that's only two years.

45:40.651 --> 45:43.453
[SPEAKER_02]: And we think of this great era of Edge and Christian.

45:43.873 --> 45:45.775
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, they had some great TV during that time.

45:45.815 --> 45:47.156
[SPEAKER_02]: Some great scans and all that.

45:47.577 --> 45:54.383
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was such a small portion, you know, a time relative to the, you know, the years that WWE has been around.

45:54.403 --> 45:55.084
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's interesting.

45:55.104 --> 45:55.464
[SPEAKER_02]: You're right.

45:55.484 --> 46:00.008
[SPEAKER_02]: Our memory sometimes makes these nostalgic memories bigger than they are.

45:59.988 --> 46:03.533
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, why do you think the Bulldogs weren't on Russ Mania one man?

46:03.553 --> 46:05.376
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if they were in Japan at that time.

46:05.396 --> 46:06.157
[SPEAKER_02]: They were in Japan.

46:06.517 --> 46:07.299
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be my guess.

46:07.759 --> 46:07.980
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

46:08.000 --> 46:09.922
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we we going to we know now we have the book.

46:10.343 --> 46:10.724
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

46:10.744 --> 46:11.004
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

46:11.104 --> 46:12.927
[SPEAKER_00]: I that's what I'm looking forward to reading through.

46:13.808 --> 46:14.850
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

46:14.870 --> 46:15.090
[SPEAKER_00]: Hold on.

46:15.110 --> 46:16.091
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I got a sneeze again.

46:20.037 --> 46:20.317
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing.

46:20.358 --> 46:20.658
[SPEAKER_00]: I left.

46:20.758 --> 46:21.018
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

46:21.038 --> 46:21.359
[SPEAKER_02]: Through it.

46:21.399 --> 46:22.060
[SPEAKER_00]: Powering it.

46:22.080 --> 46:22.881
[SPEAKER_00]: It bailed on me.

46:23.522 --> 46:23.963
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

46:24.744 --> 46:29.691
[SPEAKER_00]: Guess who's back none other than Bruno Sam Martino.

46:30.059 --> 46:31.863
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they want to give them a little back.

46:31.883 --> 46:32.084
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

46:32.144 --> 46:41.284
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, it came with his son, so I mean, you know, I'm sure Dave is predicting that this is not going to last very long.

46:41.990 --> 46:52.685
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, do you know, if David and Bruno ever made up because they've a Bruno would always kind of like avoid the subject and I don't know if they made up even after he passed away like before he passed away.

46:53.907 --> 47:11.052
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it because they had a big falling out because David's been doing steroids and now you're bro that obviously that didn't say what would Bruno because he was anti steroids well yeah and Bruno is like You know just against everything you know just very vocally against it while his son is kind of doing it on the side and telling him that he's not doing it.

47:11.504 --> 47:17.758
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, but I don't think they ever made up on this, yeah, I don't know, but I don't remember.

47:17.858 --> 47:22.568
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm sure it's in the Bruno biography that Dave did, whether or not they did.

47:22.648 --> 47:23.430
[SPEAKER_00]: I just can't remember.

47:24.472 --> 47:28.381
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know, do you know the story that I'm the one who told Dave that Bruno passed away?

47:28.421 --> 47:30.205
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I didn't know that.

47:30.225 --> 47:30.786
[SPEAKER_00]: You told them.

47:31.187 --> 47:31.808
[SPEAKER_00]: I told them.

47:32.632 --> 47:35.276
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to wake him up and tell him.

47:35.916 --> 47:37.699
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he just says that somebody woke him up.

47:37.759 --> 47:39.902
[SPEAKER_02]: Last time I heard him tell that story, but he didn't say it was you.

47:40.342 --> 47:40.823
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

47:41.063 --> 47:41.884
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what would he write?

47:41.904 --> 47:44.969
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, apparently nobody knows who you were at the time when he's telling the story.

47:45.469 --> 47:46.471
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah.

47:46.511 --> 47:46.791
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

47:46.991 --> 47:47.953
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's crazy.

47:48.033 --> 47:49.915
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, was he actually like legit.

47:49.995 --> 47:50.957
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm sure he was sad.

47:51.377 --> 47:53.160
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't know how he sounds being sad.

47:53.440 --> 47:54.501
[SPEAKER_00]: He made a weird noise.

47:54.602 --> 47:55.703
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a...

47:56.510 --> 48:01.819
[SPEAKER_00]: like a noise that you make when like you're so surprised and heartbroken at the same time.

48:02.440 --> 48:03.762
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I mean, it was like a grown.

48:03.802 --> 48:09.652
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, it was like, I didn't, I mean, I didn't want to tell him obviously, but he had, he didn't know.

48:11.235 --> 48:13.339
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that was, they were like legit friends, right?

48:13.359 --> 48:14.621
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they were actual friends.

48:14.941 --> 48:15.362
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

48:16.118 --> 48:17.139
[SPEAKER_02]: That's crazy man.

48:17.400 --> 48:19.783
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a long time ago now, long time ago.

48:20.043 --> 48:20.704
[SPEAKER_00]: It is here.

48:20.724 --> 48:25.890
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just, I think to this day, he still brings up his birthday, like if he's still alive and stuff, you know.

48:26.130 --> 48:28.173
[SPEAKER_02]: It would have been like 90 something right now.

48:28.593 --> 48:29.655
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

48:29.675 --> 48:32.779
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, Bruno, I mean, one of the one of the greatest.

48:34.401 --> 48:38.806
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, so I mentioned the royalties earlier.

48:38.866 --> 48:42.511
[SPEAKER_00]: So Bobby Heenan is on his way to WWE.

48:42.711 --> 48:45.214
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of one of the greatest.

48:46.038 --> 48:51.646
[SPEAKER_00]: burn orders a bunch of weasel buster shirts.

48:51.846 --> 49:01.780
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if you remember the Ghost Busters whole thing of 84, you have the ghost and then you have crossing through the ghost is the.

49:01.800 --> 49:02.260
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

49:02.300 --> 49:02.921
[SPEAKER_00]: Famous shirt.

49:03.362 --> 49:08.949
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they had the a similar shirt for Bobby the brain.

49:08.989 --> 49:15.218
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't an A to a

49:16.666 --> 49:21.191
[SPEAKER_00]: He's putting some money into making these shirts.

49:23.013 --> 49:26.177
[SPEAKER_00]: Vince just pulls Bobby away and so.

49:26.617 --> 49:29.301
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm sure first of all, because he was maybe he did.

49:29.501 --> 49:32.344
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember, he was still promoting Hogan, even after Hogan left.

49:32.604 --> 49:39.312
[SPEAKER_00]: Dave writes, when Vince goes after messing up your merchandising department, you know, he has no mercy.

49:40.473 --> 49:42.636
[SPEAKER_02]: And so he was personal with Vurn.

49:42.776 --> 49:46.200
[SPEAKER_00]: We know that.

49:46.298 --> 49:49.263
[SPEAKER_00]: is also talking to WVF seriously.

49:49.604 --> 50:01.185
[SPEAKER_00]: In my brain, I just always had assumed that B. Brian Blair and Jim Brindzel were like a lifetime tag team and no clue that they were coming from different places and then just got put together.

50:02.178 --> 50:21.022
[SPEAKER_00]: And it looks like there's already frustration on the free birds with WWE F. Dave says that Gordy felt like he'd been screwed by WWE F because they're chasing Michael PS Hazes pipe dream of becoming a rock star.

50:21.663 --> 50:29.232
[SPEAKER_00]: And he then writes, I guess it didn't take one free bird too long to realize what life is like when you're not center stage.

50:29.212 --> 50:34.319
[SPEAKER_00]: And then because what they were going to do is they were going to put the tag belts on the freebirds.

50:34.619 --> 50:35.600
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they didn't.

50:36.561 --> 50:43.430
[SPEAKER_00]: And Vince and Dave Wright said, I can't believe Vince will let Hayes and Buddy Roberts beat Adonis and Murdoch.

50:43.971 --> 50:46.334
[SPEAKER_00]: But certainly Hayes will have an ego attack.

50:46.434 --> 50:52.802
[SPEAKER_00]: If he's just in Vince's twilight zone, because Michael thinks he's the balance of power in the wrestling war.

50:53.343 --> 50:56.227
[SPEAKER_00]: And they how long did they even last in WWE?

50:56.307 --> 50:57.669
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was four months.

50:57.689 --> 50:58.830
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're on their

50:58.810 --> 51:06.499
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're wrong, because they only did one TV taping, which we talked about in the previous show.

51:07.120 --> 51:10.023
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were only on the road for like three to four months and then they're gone.

51:10.564 --> 51:13.867
[SPEAKER_02]: But remember people forget that Michael Hayes was the kid at this point.

51:14.588 --> 51:22.618
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so whatever, whatever ego he has, whatever attitude he has, is because he's had a lot of success very early in his life, you know.

51:23.298 --> 51:27.383
[SPEAKER_02]: At this point, he's like 24 years old or something like that.

51:27.818 --> 51:29.600
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, around there.

51:30.020 --> 51:32.183
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's a very, very young guy.

51:32.303 --> 51:33.604
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, okay, essentially.

51:34.966 --> 51:45.998
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I hear these stories, I don't really, I mean, we all go through that stage, you know, especially when you draw money, like he, he, you know, he should feel like he's like, like, you know, the center of attention.

51:46.739 --> 51:57.471
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like at his state, right, at his state, Vince would have made them a lot of money because that's the kind of guy's Vince liked, you know, as a manager though,

51:57.451 --> 52:20.843
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, how do you think, what do you think Vince is pitch was to all these guys like he's bringing in so much talent and you can only promise so much to new guys like I wonder what like these guys are making real money in territories, the junkyard dog, the free birds and your friends everybody the world title, that's like I'm wondering like how how do you do that.

52:20.823 --> 52:24.507
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what all the wrestlers always say like a prominent title and it keeps his word.

52:25.908 --> 52:27.850
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Bad News Brown has that story.

52:28.251 --> 52:31.354
[SPEAKER_02]: King Kong Bundy has that story like they also the same thing.

52:31.374 --> 52:33.476
[SPEAKER_02]: They came in, promised me the title and never kept his word.

52:34.277 --> 52:38.502
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that there was a promise of working with whole game, which meant you were going to make a lot of money.

52:38.902 --> 52:39.703
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

52:41.145 --> 52:49.193
[SPEAKER_02]: But you're right though, because at this point, there's no president who see the future.

52:49.173 --> 52:50.094
[SPEAKER_02]: They made a lot of money.

52:50.154 --> 52:52.077
[SPEAKER_02]: The wrestlers are making a lot of money.

52:52.137 --> 52:56.683
[SPEAKER_02]: But by at this point, there's nothing there to prove that this is going to work.

52:56.924 --> 52:59.387
[SPEAKER_02]: And also, you're burning bridges with the company you're leaving.

52:59.767 --> 53:02.912
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a big risk for the wrestlers as well, you know, that they're doing this.

53:03.072 --> 53:14.067
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe, maybe events himself doesn't think that Hogan is going to last for as many years as Hogan did because if he's still working, you're not going to, you know, you don't need to switch it up because it's working.

53:14.249 --> 53:15.510
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, right for sure.

53:15.550 --> 53:20.875
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so he had guys like JYD and Doug in as backups, you know, in case Hogan didn't work out or whatever.

53:22.016 --> 53:23.598
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, very interesting.

53:23.718 --> 53:28.863
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, man, they need to write more books about this era because Vince think about it.

53:28.883 --> 53:33.006
[SPEAKER_02]: He had to deal with all these egos and somehow they helped believe him.

53:33.026 --> 53:34.728
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he's like this cold leader or something.

53:34.748 --> 53:38.311
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, yeah, and he was young at this point where he's 39, 40 years old.

53:38.712 --> 53:40.794
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a guy with that has a lot of wisdom.

53:41.074 --> 53:42.315
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not old.

53:42.295 --> 53:46.201
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and he, he's got all these ideas, maybe it's also the passion.

53:46.241 --> 53:52.131
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes people with passion is, you know, it's very magnetic, you know, and people just want to be along for that right, too.

53:52.652 --> 53:54.455
[SPEAKER_02]: So who knows what he was telling these guys?

53:55.657 --> 53:55.857
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

53:55.877 --> 53:57.580
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's a Florida story.

53:57.600 --> 54:01.166
[SPEAKER_00]: And I actually asked somebody in my discord if they know if they knew what this was.

54:02.428 --> 54:04.371
[SPEAKER_00]: So Mike Davis.

54:04.874 --> 54:20.352
[SPEAKER_00]: returns to Florida from Japan, wrestling under the name of Dusty Rhodes, he's under a spell from Kevin Sullivan and truly believes he's Dusty Rhodes and is tag teaming with Kevin Sullivan.

54:20.432 --> 54:22.455
[SPEAKER_00]: Had you ever heard about this angle?

54:22.975 --> 54:30.544
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I know Mike Davis is he later on he would be

54:30.524 --> 54:33.509
[SPEAKER_02]: He tried to become like a second-rate Jake to snake robbers.

54:33.569 --> 54:50.777
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you ever saw his promos But he was kind of like trying to be a Jake to snake, you know character in the AWA and I'm talking about the late 80s at this point But in 84 I had no idea that he was in front of trying to do a dusty I'm sure he was one of the a thousand guys that were like to do those dusty impressions, so he was just doing them in the air

54:50.757 --> 54:56.264
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, my, my friend Jason in the discord, he, he sent, there's like a, there's a video.

54:56.304 --> 54:58.507
[SPEAKER_00]: The video is not in, it's not great.

54:58.587 --> 55:10.183
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously a rip of a VHS tape that does not in great condition, but he's like under a spell thinking that he's actually dusty roads and in a previous issue.

55:10.163 --> 55:15.968
[SPEAKER_00]: Dave was writing that somebody that Kevin Sullivan was saying he's bringing dusty roads in.

55:16.008 --> 55:20.332
[SPEAKER_00]: And so Dave is like, oh, this doesn't make sense because Dusty's working here and he's not here.

55:21.053 --> 55:24.416
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what it is, is it's the sky pretending Dusty Rosen.

55:24.436 --> 55:26.538
[SPEAKER_00]: So then I say, you know, what is this?

55:26.558 --> 55:32.964
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the Razer Ramone and Diesel thing from, you know, from WWE in 1996.

55:33.304 --> 55:38.989
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like,

55:38.969 --> 55:40.732
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it's still a bait and switch though.

55:40.752 --> 55:41.673
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to get dusty.

55:41.894 --> 55:42.134
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

55:43.136 --> 55:43.456
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

55:43.496 --> 55:52.611
[SPEAKER_00]: So we had talked about Black Sunday, where all of a sudden you turn on your world championship resting and you see Vince McMahon.

55:53.633 --> 55:54.835
[SPEAKER_00]: So.

55:54.882 --> 56:14.882
[SPEAKER_00]: Ted Turner is obviously getting lots of negative feedback, not lots of letters, and so he puts Oli Anderson on at 735 Eastern in the morning because of complaints of WWE FTV, and it's called Georgia Championship Wrestling.

56:14.862 --> 56:17.285
[SPEAKER_00]: although it's filmed in North Carolina.

56:17.966 --> 56:36.327
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he says it was a foreshow experiment, but he's also at the same time critiquing the show saying like the show's not fantastic in any way, you know, they're showing old tapes of stuff, Oli's like making fun of guys who don't work for him anymore, having them lose on TV and stuff.

56:36.367 --> 56:41.933
[SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't feel like Dave is very enamored with this Oli Anderson Georgia Championship Wrestling.

56:41.913 --> 56:49.164
[SPEAKER_02]: I always felt like Holy was a little overrated as a booker, he had some good angles here and there, but then again, who does it, you know?

56:49.985 --> 56:58.318
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when you're constantly, Georgia was the first national company and think about that, they had to heads up on everyone.

56:59.058 --> 57:07.809
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, they were going into like the Midwest from Georgia a little bit of some of the West, I think San Francisco area, but he couldn't sustain it.

57:08.029 --> 57:13.636
[SPEAKER_02]: So why why does he have the rep of being this great booker, you know, he had to turn on dusty roads in the cage.

57:13.676 --> 57:15.798
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the one everybody think of holy.

57:16.259 --> 57:19.062
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, I don't know, I was thought he was a little overrated.

57:19.403 --> 57:23.968
[SPEAKER_02]: Then when he got that gig, like you said, the Georgia championship wrestling, like he couldn't sustain that either.

57:23.948 --> 57:36.154
[SPEAKER_02]: And then obviously he had the run in 93 WCW, he was responsible for the black scorpion, which was a horrible angle, so I don't know, I've always thought he was a little overrated, but people like him and they're seeing the observal of fame.

57:36.294 --> 57:36.775
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he's not.

57:37.296 --> 57:39.441
[SPEAKER_02]: Nope, I don't think he's ever going to be there.

57:39.521 --> 57:40.944
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so we're there.

57:41.024 --> 57:42.026
[SPEAKER_02]: They're a little exchange.

57:42.768 --> 57:42.868
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

57:42.848 --> 58:03.274
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, and then he let Hogan go very his whole thing was like you can't have Hogan do the same town every week like I do You know, it's like come on and he and then he doesn't like Rick Flair like so what do you like bro like you know But yeah, I thought I was thought he was a little overrated All right, there's only a couple of comedy Dave notes here.

58:03.334 --> 58:07.860
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's hit the comedy Dave Okay

58:08.600 --> 58:19.015
[SPEAKER_00]: He said he wouldn't, no, no, no, no, I actually popped him the other day because he was talking about ECW.

58:19.433 --> 58:31.675
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was saying how back in the day, you know, he would get some flack from the EC, the hardcore ECW fans, because they were so excited right ECW.

58:31.735 --> 58:39.248
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he'd write about it and say, oh, you know, like this, this was very cool, but this match actually wasn't very good.

58:39.228 --> 59:05.235
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, and he said, you know, I used to really use to really bother ECW fans when I wasn't 100% positive on their stuff and I said, yeah, so much so that a guy created an entire newsletter and website about it, it was a small tiny shot at Dave share and and it popped him one of those and I was like, I need to grab that for this and then I forgot again, I always, I always forget.

59:06.577 --> 59:06.797
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

59:06.817 --> 59:07.918
[SPEAKER_00]: But I.

59:08.894 --> 59:12.178
[SPEAKER_00]: I did it, I don't have a problem with Dave share.

59:12.218 --> 59:20.368
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Dave share might be out of his mind at certain points, but I used to like Dave share stuff back in the day back in the day.

59:20.749 --> 59:23.592
[SPEAKER_00]: But I always could tell that Dave share did not like Dave Meltzer.

59:23.612 --> 59:24.633
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I knew that part.

59:25.114 --> 59:27.677
[SPEAKER_00]: But so I was just kind of, I kind of said it under my breath.

59:27.757 --> 59:28.838
[SPEAKER_00]: Dave laughed.

59:28.859 --> 59:29.820
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't make it a big deal.

59:29.860 --> 59:30.380
[SPEAKER_00]: We moved on.

59:31.021 --> 59:34.986
[SPEAKER_00]: And then somebody sent me a note saying, yeah, you know, I,

59:34.966 --> 59:37.188
[SPEAKER_00]: other discord were having fun with that.

59:37.208 --> 59:38.669
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, Oh, man, I should.

59:38.689 --> 59:41.231
[SPEAKER_00]: I sometimes I forget that I'm not just talking to Dave.

59:41.272 --> 59:43.313
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually doing a show that people listen to.

59:43.874 --> 59:48.858
[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, but yeah, it's, it was, yeah, the, the forehorsesman of the internet.

59:48.878 --> 59:56.265
[SPEAKER_02]: They, they, that was kind of like the first kind of group of guys that was there to kind of rag on Dave, you know, and and try to get heat from that.

59:56.365 --> 01:00:01.049
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and so, for a long time, there was a lot of like division, because they also had a page site, right?

01:00:01.069 --> 01:00:03.471
[SPEAKER_02]: I never joined their, their page subscription.

01:00:03.451 --> 01:00:06.439
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it started, it first was one wrestling.

01:00:06.720 --> 01:00:07.723
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, then they left.

01:00:07.743 --> 01:00:09.287
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they left to do their own.

01:00:09.808 --> 01:00:12.335
[SPEAKER_00]: For wrestling, you know, insider, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:12.355 --> 01:00:14.562
[SPEAKER_02]: And then that's where the four or was meant of the internet came from.

01:00:15.404 --> 01:00:15.504
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:00:15.524 --> 01:00:19.114
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought he got a little weird when he was started giving those gym updates.

01:00:19.094 --> 01:00:22.823
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he started going to the gym all and then he started giving those updates with pictures.

01:00:22.884 --> 01:00:24.548
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, dude, that's a little weird for me.

01:00:24.788 --> 01:00:25.089
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:00:25.410 --> 01:00:28.037
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I haven't, man, I haven't heard from that guy in years.

01:00:28.097 --> 01:00:30.182
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, you're taking me back to back when I was younger.

01:00:30.242 --> 01:00:34.453
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he wrote something, um,

01:00:34.619 --> 01:00:40.368
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, this was probably earlier this year where he really ragged on Melcer for something AEW related.

01:00:40.408 --> 01:00:40.809
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure.

01:00:40.869 --> 01:00:45.816
[SPEAKER_00]: And he also Dave Sharer, he's been very negative about Tony Khan.

01:00:45.836 --> 01:00:53.648
[SPEAKER_00]: So he sits in that on that side of things, but you know, Mike Johnson was really that he's Mike Johnson's the vehicle behind that whole website.

01:00:53.668 --> 01:00:55.191
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, for sure.

01:00:56.433 --> 01:01:01.200
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, first one, he was talking about Ivan Putsky.

01:01:01.973 --> 01:01:14.212
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, Ivan Putsky pins Bob Orton and he says, this is a case of the very worst beating the very best or Ivan.

01:01:14.412 --> 01:01:19.240
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, whenever the WTF had a tape called,

01:01:19.220 --> 01:01:23.350
[SPEAKER_00]: The biggest, the strongest, the strangest, the smallest or something like that.

01:01:23.611 --> 01:01:24.794
[SPEAKER_00]: I just saw it like a year ago.

01:01:25.376 --> 01:01:30.809
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I want to say Putski is on the cover or he's in this, in this video.

01:01:31.371 --> 01:01:36.604
[SPEAKER_00]: And I used to just be amazed at this old man.

01:01:37.090 --> 01:01:53.850
[SPEAKER_00]: who look like he wanted to compete like with Mr. Olympia, like just being a wrestler, I was like, this guy doesn't really fit in the wrestling because if he fit, like he should be beating everybody up, based on his just the buffest dude, but then he's always getting beat up by the heel.

01:01:53.830 --> 01:01:55.351
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was also very small.

01:01:55.552 --> 01:01:56.532
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the problem with him.

01:01:56.913 --> 01:02:01.457
[SPEAKER_02]: So he had a very, when you think of buddy, he had a very unhealthy body throughout his career.

01:02:02.378 --> 01:02:07.302
[SPEAKER_02]: And then his son came later on Scott Putski, who just was as, he was really bad, you know?

01:02:07.342 --> 01:02:10.625
[SPEAKER_02]: The Polish power, the Polish power, that's right.

01:02:11.246 --> 01:02:19.653
[SPEAKER_02]: They actually fused with a Brian Christopher and Jerry Lawler, which, you know, you knew that Jerry Lawler was gonna unload with all the insults on commentary and he did.

01:02:20.254 --> 01:02:23.837
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was a crazy, if you're doing the Russo era.

01:02:23.817 --> 01:02:25.879
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember a TV show?

01:02:25.939 --> 01:02:28.662
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I probably before your time a little bit?

01:02:28.682 --> 01:02:30.844
[SPEAKER_00]: It was called Ripley's believe it or not?

01:02:31.725 --> 01:02:35.068
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I saw when Dean Kane would host it.

01:02:35.668 --> 01:02:39.532
[SPEAKER_00]: So the previous iteration of that was like in the mid in the mid 80s.

01:02:40.053 --> 01:02:41.274
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it was kind of like a big deal.

01:02:41.874 --> 01:02:51.023
[SPEAKER_00]: And so Dave writes, it was good enough for a believe it or not, stud and Hulk Hogan actually having a good match.

01:02:52.741 --> 01:02:54.944
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what is it talking about being current?

01:02:55.605 --> 01:03:01.794
[SPEAKER_00]: I, because they're having all these bad matches and he's like, he's like, uh, they actually had a good match.

01:03:02.575 --> 01:03:06.020
[SPEAKER_00]: Believe it or not, he's just playing on the top of a match was that.

01:03:06.040 --> 01:03:07.221
[SPEAKER_02]: Like how I was told, like it was.

01:03:07.442 --> 01:03:08.764
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was just how I showed this.

01:03:08.824 --> 01:03:10.286
[SPEAKER_02]: I've never seen a good match between them.

01:03:11.087 --> 01:03:22.663
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was, um, I was really interested in that there's a segment on the 18, I think we're hooking and stutter having a match.

01:03:23.588 --> 01:03:25.491
[SPEAKER_00]: Was that a real, you know, when I was a little kid.

01:03:25.611 --> 01:03:42.377
[SPEAKER_00]: Was that a real match like where they filming like for real or is that whatever, but that's the for some reason I was always enamored with Hogan instead just because they had a match on the 18, even like you said, most of their matches were just bearhug spots and countouts, like that's kind of what they did back then.

01:03:43.358 --> 01:03:46.603
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you just reminded me of something again, we're going to take a little side road here.

01:03:47.104 --> 01:03:50.389
[SPEAKER_02]: When I was growing up and I would watch El Santo movies.

01:03:51.483 --> 01:03:59.991
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we all thought that we've actually seen El Santo Reso, because they would have the matches in the movies, but they were shot for the movie, right?

01:04:00.251 --> 01:04:03.594
[SPEAKER_02]: And actually, we've never seen El Santo Reso, because the footage doesn't exist.

01:04:04.275 --> 01:04:15.324
[SPEAKER_02]: And when that hit me and hit me, years ago, I was like, oh, shit, the whole time I thought we had seen El Reso, but it was just exhibitions for the movie, we actually never have seen them in a match, you know, because there's no footage.

01:04:15.805 --> 01:04:21.490
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's the same thing like you said, you know, it's like the, and they were shooting

01:04:21.470 --> 01:04:48.591
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though, like whenever I did watch them, Russell, it wasn't anything special, but just because it was the A team it had to be a big deal, but yeah, okay, so then the last one here is Dave said he watched the inept

01:04:48.723 --> 01:04:49.704
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't believe that at all.

01:04:49.785 --> 01:04:54.532
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just because I think it's because Ploboy Frazier could not do at all.

01:04:54.652 --> 01:04:55.513
[SPEAKER_00]: He would just drop.

01:04:55.593 --> 01:04:59.539
[SPEAKER_00]: He would just drop from his, he just pick up his leg and fall.

01:05:00.140 --> 01:05:00.441
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

01:05:00.841 --> 01:05:01.102
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

01:05:01.222 --> 01:05:08.453
[SPEAKER_02]: And for the people that won reference for the younger fans, he would come out in 1996, I think, as a Loch Nist.

01:05:08.433 --> 01:05:11.538
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, really, and that was probably Frazier.

01:05:11.558 --> 01:05:19.912
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty sure it was and and he wouldn't last very long, but he would that was his finisher, you know, but he would just kind of like pick up his leg and drop.

01:05:19.952 --> 01:05:24.760
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't he wasn't actually doing with hope, but hope should have done that too, because look at all the back surgeries.

01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:26.282
[SPEAKER_02]: He had to go through before he passed away.

01:05:26.382 --> 01:05:30.008
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so flat boy Frazier was Uncle Elmer.

01:05:30.208 --> 01:05:31.490
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was Uncle Almer, okay.

01:05:31.511 --> 01:05:34.896
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so he was show up in 86 in WWE F.

01:05:36.057 --> 01:05:54.150
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... yes and the lockness was giant haystacks that's right it's it's not i mean it's not well like i was in the i was in the i was in the i was in the i was in the they all kind of look alike but i don't want to say so so my dad would tell me about haystacks cowhoon

01:05:54.130 --> 01:06:04.024
[SPEAKER_00]: And he just, because like haystacks, Calhoun was a, you know, what you would consider to be like an attraction, right?

01:06:04.044 --> 01:06:13.398
[SPEAKER_00]: You wouldn't see him wrestle a lot, but when he came to your city, it was an attraction to see this giant 600 pound man, and that's how they use haystacks.

01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:18.585
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I just remember Uncle, I remember, I mean, obviously everyone remembers if you were,

01:06:19.055 --> 01:06:25.262
[SPEAKER_00]: back in the day, the Uncle Elmer wedding or Roddy Piper, you know, interrupts it and stuff.

01:06:26.664 --> 01:06:42.681
[SPEAKER_00]: But I used to like, you know, the hillbillies, hillbilly gym and Uncle Elmer and cousin Luke, you know, again, you kind of think back and like they are like a big part of my memory, but they're not there for like a year maybe?

01:06:42.702 --> 01:06:47.627
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, about a year, yeah.

01:06:48.265 --> 01:06:54.238
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a WrestleMania three, he wrestles agent.

01:06:54.258 --> 01:06:56.082
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, he isn't WrestleMania two.

01:06:56.102 --> 01:06:57.084
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't age in the donness.

01:06:57.545 --> 01:06:57.845
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

01:06:58.026 --> 01:06:58.587
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it was.

01:06:58.948 --> 01:07:00.391
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he wasn't age in the donness.

01:07:00.491 --> 01:07:02.034
[SPEAKER_02]: But he is not a WrestleMania three.

01:07:02.836 --> 01:07:04.820
[SPEAKER_02]: No, by that point, he's polygon.

01:07:05.502 --> 01:07:07.506
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:07:08.380 --> 01:07:12.404
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, even with the little people in that one, where King Kong won these squashes, one of them.

01:07:12.424 --> 01:07:15.808
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is very familiar memory as well.

01:07:16.849 --> 01:07:22.615
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we get to the scene in Tanaashi thing, Bob Cottle passed away recently.

01:07:22.655 --> 01:07:27.841
[SPEAKER_00]: And what a voice, very memorable voice.

01:07:27.941 --> 01:07:34.167
[SPEAKER_02]: Now again, very soothing, like very grandfather, grandpa, very soothing voice.

01:07:34.227 --> 01:07:34.928
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you.

01:07:34.908 --> 01:07:46.926
[SPEAKER_00]: like how much of Bob Cottle would you have seen because he he's not around that much and if he is he's doing like the the worldwide stuff rather than like the main stuff in in the NWA.

01:07:47.487 --> 01:08:04.712
[SPEAKER_02]: No by that point I mean Bob Cottle is all just like tape trader stuff and you know later on you know for for me was stands out he was a very like easy going an answer not the best you know

01:08:05.722 --> 01:08:09.668
[SPEAKER_02]: But what stands out is that he was older when he was doing like national commentary.

01:08:10.008 --> 01:08:10.228
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:08:10.248 --> 01:08:12.592
[SPEAKER_02]: So he was say things that weren't politically correct.

01:08:12.632 --> 01:08:13.713
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not going to see him on here.

01:08:14.034 --> 01:08:15.876
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll see if it could be show people on a hero.

01:08:16.617 --> 01:08:22.085
[SPEAKER_02]: But there was one that with Robert with Robert Gibson's sister that really always pops me.

01:08:22.145 --> 01:08:25.570
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it was so matter of fact when he said it.

01:08:25.550 --> 01:08:30.363
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like, at that time, it was just accepted, but that wasn't the only thing.

01:08:30.383 --> 01:08:36.219
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, he would refer to African Americans as not, not the bad one, but the other bad one.

01:08:37.082 --> 01:08:39.468
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was, but it was just, but he was cool.

01:08:39.488 --> 01:08:40.892
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, he was so smooth.

01:08:40.872 --> 01:08:59.457
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I mean, I always remember, you know, going to the video store and running those like those late 80s tapes and he was there Bob Carl, you know, and then when when Turner bottom, he just van it, he just he wasn't around very when when Turner bottom he kind of like stopped.

01:09:00.258 --> 01:09:01.540
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't working for them anymore.

01:09:02.861 --> 01:09:07.167
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I remember Bob, but he I mean, he was around for years, you know.

01:09:08.345 --> 01:09:11.029
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so John Cena is retirement match.

01:09:12.290 --> 01:09:18.178
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know who it's going to be, but we think it's going to be Gunther.

01:09:18.959 --> 01:09:19.600
[SPEAKER_00]: Very good.

01:09:19.920 --> 01:09:21.963
[SPEAKER_02]: EW is kind of tournament where it's hard jobbers.

01:09:22.363 --> 01:09:25.688
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and all mid-carters and Gunther.

01:09:28.311 --> 01:09:34.960
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think about him actually retiring on Saturday nights main event rather than like at a big show?

01:09:36.087 --> 01:09:40.579
[SPEAKER_02]: I did not find, I think they're using him to give the actual credibility.

01:09:42.112 --> 01:09:55.970
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas in a big show, let's say for whatever reason they would decide to do it because the only big shows could have been Survivor Series, or if you want to stretch out to the Roya Rumble, right, and to me it seems like the Roya Rumble itself is going to take the attention like it does every year, right?

01:09:56.010 --> 01:09:56.831
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a big match.

01:09:57.311 --> 01:10:00.635
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Survivor Series has the whole like word game aspect to it.

01:10:01.076 --> 01:10:03.679
[SPEAKER_02]: So you don't want to lose his retirement and all that.

01:10:03.920 --> 01:10:05.382
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's other stories there.

01:10:05.862 --> 01:10:08.946
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas Saturday night's main event is his show,

01:10:08.926 --> 01:10:13.774
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's using his name, his retirement to elevate that show.

01:10:13.814 --> 01:10:20.225
[SPEAKER_02]: So essentially, we're going to get a big PLE kind of level show in December, which we haven't in a while.

01:10:21.888 --> 01:10:22.489
[SPEAKER_02]: So I like it.

01:10:22.529 --> 01:10:23.310
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that idea.

01:10:23.651 --> 01:10:26.475
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but it's not like it's on NBC, though.

01:10:26.536 --> 01:10:28.639
[SPEAKER_00]: It's only on peacock.

01:10:28.619 --> 01:10:35.043
[SPEAKER_00]: and the last Saturday night's main event show that they did on peacock was less than two hours.

01:10:35.505 --> 01:10:38.094
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so like it had a CM Punk and J.U.

01:10:38.114 --> 01:10:39.118
[SPEAKER_00]: So title match.

01:10:39.858 --> 01:10:46.046
[SPEAKER_00]: And because it was on that show on Peacock, it just felt like lesser than than if it would have happened on Raw.

01:10:46.667 --> 01:10:50.332
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I agree with you, John Cena will elevate it just because of it.

01:10:50.612 --> 01:10:53.336
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they control the time they could go to 30 if they want.

01:10:53.356 --> 01:11:04.771
[SPEAKER_02]: They could, they, they, that's just something that they, for that show, the last one you're talking about, it was, it was just, they just want to leave as the two hours, you know, but for this one, they could extend it a little bit, you know?

01:11:04.871 --> 01:11:08.616
[SPEAKER_02]: Are they're not going to give them the gold brick treatment where they cut them off in the middle of a promo?

01:11:08.596 --> 01:11:09.930
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope not anyway.

01:11:09.950 --> 01:11:11.991
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you that they're not going to do that.

01:11:12.798 --> 01:11:30.763
[SPEAKER_00]: I just wonder if they, if you could talk John Cena into going the day after WrestleMania, two WrestleMania and have your retirement match at WrestleMania, that just seems to be more of the pay at the kind of pay off that they normally look for.

01:11:30.843 --> 01:11:33.006
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure he wanted to do it this way.

01:11:33.046 --> 01:11:40.797
[SPEAKER_00]: He knows his schedule, but still maybe you can finagle it and buy WrestleMania 42.

01:11:40.777 --> 01:11:45.586
[SPEAKER_00]: like that's how you make this WrestleMania the super giant WrestleMania.

01:11:45.686 --> 01:11:46.026
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

01:11:46.066 --> 01:11:50.875
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just feels a little weird that it's the Saturday night's main event in DC.

01:11:50.975 --> 01:11:55.363
[SPEAKER_00]: I know they're going to draw the biggest house ever in the US for a TV show.

01:11:57.026 --> 01:12:01.013
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they haven't sold out yet, so they're having trouble pushing tickets because of the prices.

01:12:00.993 --> 01:12:21.398
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

01:12:21.378 --> 01:12:25.626
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that wasn't the case, even like a few months away, this is something new.

01:12:25.646 --> 01:12:27.490
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is interesting to me.

01:12:28.191 --> 01:12:29.614
[SPEAKER_02]: Paul's getting rocked a little bit.

01:12:29.814 --> 01:12:37.569
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to see how he reacts because I think we've talked about this on this show, like the best bookers are the ones that get up from adversity.

01:12:37.629 --> 01:12:43.421
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you could be at the mountains up by you want, but when you start coming down, then you really show your character.

01:12:43.641 --> 01:12:44.162
[SPEAKER_02]: You know,

01:12:44.142 --> 01:12:51.912
[SPEAKER_02]: You have people that they know why that are so resistant, they just keep on pushing through and then you have people like Bishop of like solving blood during that time.

01:12:52.613 --> 01:12:54.515
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll see how Paul of Egg reacts to this.

01:12:55.577 --> 01:12:57.740
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we're starting to see the chips in the armor.

01:12:57.800 --> 01:13:00.263
[SPEAKER_02]: WrestleMania still not sold out and it's not doing very well.

01:13:00.283 --> 01:13:04.969
[SPEAKER_02]: I just checked the tickets today because they actually released the general admission tickets today.

01:13:04.949 --> 01:13:08.376
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, the ridiculous, by the way, don't even anybody don't even go in there.

01:13:08.396 --> 01:13:09.940
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to get scared.

01:13:10.661 --> 01:13:13.267
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but people are going to go anyway, but it's going to sell out.

01:13:13.287 --> 01:13:13.708
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know.

01:13:13.988 --> 01:13:14.489
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably not.

01:13:14.730 --> 01:13:21.304
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so yeah, so I'm interested to see how Paul reacts from a lot of this like just kind of like,

01:13:22.094 --> 01:13:27.001
[SPEAKER_02]: like underline negativity that started to come out from the book inside from the ticket sales.

01:13:28.623 --> 01:13:29.003
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.

01:13:29.064 --> 01:13:31.186
[SPEAKER_02]: He said he wants to he recruited a bunch of writers, right?

01:13:31.206 --> 01:13:33.650
[SPEAKER_02]: He wants to have more like high-brow writing in his shows.

01:13:34.431 --> 01:13:34.811
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.

01:13:35.032 --> 01:13:35.773
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you know what?

01:13:35.793 --> 01:13:36.554
[SPEAKER_02]: I was telling Danny.

01:13:36.594 --> 01:13:41.160
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, well, they better tell us why all of a sudden, poor humans buddy would broadcast.

01:13:41.240 --> 01:13:45.486
[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of like a like a loose thread from their previous few that never got resolved.

01:13:45.466 --> 01:13:50.116
[SPEAKER_02]: So are we just going to forget that he turned on them, that they feed it and it was a big thing.

01:13:50.136 --> 01:13:54.286
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we are, but I hope not, we get some sort of explanation for that.

01:13:54.646 --> 01:14:00.199
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was on that one from the last time that that Brock came came back.

01:14:01.682 --> 01:14:02.343
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you.

01:14:02.404 --> 01:14:03.947
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a

01:14:04.552 --> 01:14:07.736
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not very hard to come up with something, right?

01:14:07.856 --> 01:14:13.923
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, it's not hard like, you just like, you know, Brock Brock is a, is a, is a mercenary.

01:14:13.943 --> 01:14:16.746
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I just paid him more and he forgave me or whatever.

01:14:16.806 --> 01:14:17.227
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, right.

01:14:17.247 --> 01:14:28.159
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also because if it's his character, um, they could still even Brock could even say, I still hate you, Paul, you know, you could say something, but, but, you know, you're making it worth my time to be here for you, you know, something.

01:14:28.179 --> 01:14:31.403
[SPEAKER_02]: Dude, that takes care of it, right there, just simple total.

01:14:31.383 --> 01:14:43.016
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, how much do you respect your audience to tell them that, you know, or it's like, nah, they're all, you know, they're all virgins, and so they're paying $400 for blows, they wouldn't have to explain nothing to them.

01:14:43.036 --> 01:14:52.907
[SPEAKER_00]: He did have an interesting comment about his audience, not too long ago, though, that was very Vince McMahon kind of comment that I thought was interesting.

01:14:52.967 --> 01:14:56.631
[SPEAKER_00]: And because again, like you said, how do you deal with

01:14:56.847 --> 01:14:57.748
[SPEAKER_00]: coming down.

01:14:57.828 --> 01:15:01.072
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you, you, everyone does great when they're going up and up and up.

01:15:01.112 --> 01:15:03.476
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, how do you handle coming down a little bit?

01:15:03.556 --> 01:15:05.478
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, they're, they're not coming down that far.

01:15:05.498 --> 01:15:09.143
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are some small signs of people not being super.

01:15:09.163 --> 01:15:11.025
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like Dragon getting punched in the face.

01:15:11.045 --> 01:15:15.171
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when Dragon got punched in the face, it wasn't even like a big punch, but it got him going, right?

01:15:15.471 --> 01:15:15.631
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:15:15.651 --> 01:15:18.315
[SPEAKER_02]: Starting leaning all of a sudden, the match changes a little bit.

01:15:18.935 --> 01:15:19.656
[SPEAKER_02]: Same thing with Paul.

01:15:19.676 --> 01:15:20.077
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're right.

01:15:20.097 --> 01:15:20.838
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a big deal.

01:15:20.878 --> 01:15:24.863
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, but still, it's a big deal because they haven't seen it in a long time.

01:15:24.843 --> 01:15:31.089
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they've been writing this last two, three years of just salouts and, you know, people kissing their rear end and they're the best ever.

01:15:31.490 --> 01:15:34.012
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we're going to see because now you're not the best ever.

01:15:34.613 --> 01:15:37.936
[SPEAKER_02]: And if it wasn't for John Cena, maybe this would have happened sooner.

01:15:38.016 --> 01:15:39.518
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you going to do without Cena?

01:15:39.538 --> 01:15:41.380
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you compare the houses, right?

01:15:41.780 --> 01:15:44.503
[SPEAKER_02]: With John Cena's involved when he's not involved, they're different.

01:15:44.523 --> 01:15:47.566
[SPEAKER_02]: They're, you know, um, so we'll see what they do next year.

01:15:47.606 --> 01:15:49.008
[SPEAKER_02]: They have to have a plan for next year.

01:15:49.268 --> 01:15:53.432
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see.

01:15:53.412 --> 01:16:04.082
[SPEAKER_00]: was pretty telling, I thought, because everybody in that commercial is, what Cody's the youngest guy, I think, in that commercial, right?

01:16:04.102 --> 01:16:04.723
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's 40.

01:16:04.943 --> 01:16:05.964
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Cody's 40.

01:16:06.004 --> 01:16:09.027
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone is older than Cody.

01:16:09.047 --> 01:16:12.010
[SPEAKER_00]: Triple H is right in the middle.

01:16:12.290 --> 01:16:15.053
[SPEAKER_00]: Vince McMahon was only in the middle of these videos.

01:16:15.113 --> 01:16:19.757
[SPEAKER_00]: If he was actually, you know, in a match or

01:16:19.737 --> 01:16:21.861
[SPEAKER_00]: part of the the big angle.

01:16:22.582 --> 01:16:25.127
[SPEAKER_00]: I just thought that that was pretty fascinating.

01:16:25.628 --> 01:16:34.484
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, hey, man is going to be in there because you know, hey, man is able to to get his self it in a lot of it's also a character.

01:16:34.524 --> 01:16:37.168
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a character that manages a couple of the guys on the table.

01:16:37.950 --> 01:16:40.194
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, but here's what doesn't make sense, right?

01:16:40.294 --> 01:16:42.538
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think about it from that perspective is

01:16:43.396 --> 01:16:52.588
[SPEAKER_00]: Why does punk just take a photo with a boy, just randomly like, hey man, yeah, like that's the part of it, right?

01:16:52.668 --> 01:17:13.116
[SPEAKER_00]: That were kind of silly, but yeah, just the idea that Triple H feels that he is part of the attraction for the business that they're doing when I think, because okay, so let's go back to it was a couple of Monday night

01:17:13.332 --> 01:17:16.456
[SPEAKER_00]: But John Cena came out all the Boston one.

01:17:16.476 --> 01:17:20.321
[SPEAKER_00]: They were in Boston, but there was one before that.

01:17:20.461 --> 01:17:20.722
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

01:17:20.742 --> 01:17:20.902
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:17:20.962 --> 01:17:21.403
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you're right.

01:17:21.523 --> 01:17:27.350
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the Boston one triple H does this intro that I was like I saw that.

01:17:27.370 --> 01:17:28.612
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, brother.

01:17:28.632 --> 01:17:38.665
[SPEAKER_00]: That could have been a text message like What is the reason for it like we we don't want to see you were waiting for Cena now if you had

01:17:39.185 --> 01:17:47.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Howard Finkel in his heyday or something that you can do this big thing, but you doing this announcement does nothing for the audience.

01:17:47.359 --> 01:17:50.644
[SPEAKER_00]: It only does something for you because you want to be seen as this guy.

01:17:51.466 --> 01:17:58.257
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, man, he really picks and chooses his opportunities to put him to to get the people to go.

01:17:58.861 --> 01:18:15.465
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, you all need to be grateful that I'm in the spot because I'm giving you all this stuff and I just like, man, you know, if that is how he gets he feels like that ego booster, whatever, maybe it's what keep maybe he gets that and then he doesn't have to think about wrestling.

01:18:15.565 --> 01:18:17.848
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I get that, but

01:18:17.828 --> 01:18:46.705
[SPEAKER_00]: still is he going to be in the middle of the ring doing all this stuff if they're in a cold period right like if the house is aren't full like if you know what if the cyclical wrestling business if they struggle you know that's going to be interesting because TKO they are running this like a business they are not running it like a wrestling territory necessarily so you know who gets the blame if they do go down that all that stuff is intriguing

01:18:46.685 --> 01:18:48.608
[SPEAKER_02]: And all that stuff is going to get tested.

01:18:48.648 --> 01:18:57.060
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, like you said, like TKO doesn't have the little intricacies of like understanding the intricacies of wrestling business, right?

01:18:57.080 --> 01:18:59.484
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is different than a lot of other businesses.

01:18:59.524 --> 01:19:04.571
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to have wrestling people there to understand what all these things mean going up and down.

01:19:04.632 --> 01:19:08.417
[SPEAKER_02]: All that stuff, TKO's like, we bought a gold mine here.

01:19:08.497 --> 01:19:12.023
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we bought this and then we're on top and is this how it always is?

01:19:12.143 --> 01:19:13.705
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's no, it's not.

01:19:13.685 --> 01:19:17.870
[SPEAKER_02]: And you write, remember, Triple A's was brought up to disappear when the ratings are down.

01:19:17.970 --> 01:19:19.391
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what the old school guys.

01:19:19.832 --> 01:19:30.183
[SPEAKER_02]: So I could see him once they're struggling, where some people say they already are with the way they reconfigure the ratings is weird, but he, I don't think he's going to be around.

01:19:30.223 --> 01:19:38.933
[SPEAKER_02]: But one of the, one of the, I was pissed personally, I was upset because we all know if he followed the business that Triple A's just like the biggest Ric flat mark in the world.

01:19:38.913 --> 01:19:40.655
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and here he's putting over John Cena.

01:19:40.675 --> 01:19:46.003
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, bro, you're lying because you look all this years that rick flares your favorite wrestler and that's the greatest.

01:19:46.023 --> 01:19:49.788
[SPEAKER_02]: So now you're saying it's John Cena and not only do I know that John Cena knows that.

01:19:49.868 --> 01:19:51.550
[SPEAKER_02]: So he knows you're full of shit too.

01:19:52.952 --> 01:19:54.734
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was pretty funny to me.

01:19:54.754 --> 01:19:56.997
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, that was that was kind of weird.

01:19:57.077 --> 01:20:00.482
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't even, I mean,

01:20:00.462 --> 01:20:01.384
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

01:20:01.404 --> 01:20:03.508
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think John Cena is even like top 10.

01:20:03.688 --> 01:20:19.500
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when you think when you think of the entire he he definitely help them you're old five old when he get him out of that that dark period There are some people who think that Vince is reliant on Cena actually

01:20:19.767 --> 01:20:23.432
[SPEAKER_00]: helped the popularity of Russ and go down even faster.

01:20:23.832 --> 01:20:28.338
[SPEAKER_00]: But what Vince was able to see was the merch was still strong.

01:20:29.239 --> 01:20:34.706
[SPEAKER_00]: The popularity might have gone down, but they were still able to market Cena as this big star.

01:20:35.187 --> 01:20:46.602
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's an interesting thought in that was Cena only good for them, or would they have benefited from other guys actually getting the spot that he was in.

01:20:46.902 --> 01:21:02.045
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that was also at a time where Viz was very paranoid, because a lot of the guys had left them, Brock had left them, Bobby Lashley had left them, you know, he, a lot of these guys that he wanted to take the baton, will leave them, and Tina was the one that was very loyal, you know.

01:21:02.125 --> 01:21:06.132
[SPEAKER_02]: And even Randy Ordin at that time, he was out of his mind, you couldn't really trust him.

01:21:06.552 --> 01:21:11.640
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, people forget, but Randy Ordin was like one suspension away from being fired, like, you know, permanent.

01:21:11.660 --> 01:21:12.201
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that

01:21:12.181 --> 01:21:15.928
[SPEAKER_00]: suspension actually happened, but they just, well, they don't go back to zero.

01:21:16.028 --> 01:21:17.510
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they reset it.

01:21:17.550 --> 01:21:19.113
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they reset.

01:21:19.133 --> 01:21:31.094
[SPEAKER_00]: But because remember when Jeff Hardy was really hot for that short print, not like you could trust Jeff Hardy, but like you said, you could trust John Cena, so you could take Jeff Hardy up to a certain part.

01:21:31.515 --> 01:21:35.522
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, but John Cena was always going to be the guy because he's the one that you could trust.

01:21:35.502 --> 01:21:39.734
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, Jeff Hardy should have won that 2008 Royal Rumble match with Oregon.

01:21:39.814 --> 01:21:43.885
[SPEAKER_02]: I always say that and I always say that, but Oregon won and it deflated Jeff Hardy.

01:21:43.945 --> 01:21:45.149
[SPEAKER_02]: It was never the same after that.

01:21:46.552 --> 01:21:51.486
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so I think I think that paid a big part in seeing us sticking around for tech because he had a 10 year run.

01:21:51.466 --> 01:22:05.281
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, he was a consistent from 2005 up to 2016, which is kind of when he started becoming a part timer, but uh, and I think part of that was just because visiting and trust anyone else and to Roman came, but Roman wasn't getting over.

01:22:05.682 --> 01:22:06.644
[SPEAKER_02]: No, which is a problem.

01:22:07.486 --> 01:22:09.070
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so do you think?

01:22:09.860 --> 01:22:13.124
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think should happen at this Saturday night's main event?

01:22:13.164 --> 01:22:14.986
[SPEAKER_00]: Should Sina win?

01:22:15.086 --> 01:22:16.007
[SPEAKER_00]: Should he lose?

01:22:16.067 --> 01:22:25.639
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure he probably wants to lose, but you remember the sting scenario when sting were trying to win and testing that I think he should win.

01:22:25.879 --> 01:22:27.020
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he should win too.

01:22:27.681 --> 01:22:31.465
[SPEAKER_00]: But if he wants to go out, they're not going to talk about it.

01:22:31.526 --> 01:22:36.171
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think because their guy who sticks around is the one who's going to get over from it.

01:22:36.252 --> 01:22:46.985
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, but then it's gun three doesn't need it like yeah, you know, unless I don't know if you want to start that baby face run for gunter and that'll be his big like baby face turn.

01:22:47.867 --> 01:23:03.306
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they could have like like a kind of like an even math and then gunter turns at the end and he shakes his hand and now we have a baby face gunter, you know, which I don't know if that's the case, maybe, but I think I think seen a deserves to win on the way out, you know, I mean, everybody home happy.

01:23:04.231 --> 01:23:11.623
[SPEAKER_00]: Now speaking of someone who's probably losing on the way out, Hiroshi Tanahashi sold out the Tokyo dome.

01:23:12.364 --> 01:23:13.586
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right, I couldn't believe that.

01:23:13.906 --> 01:23:16.951
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think nobody, I don't think nobody could sell out the Tokyo dome anymore.

01:23:16.991 --> 01:23:18.774
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the way wrestling is right now.

01:23:19.675 --> 01:23:20.557
[SPEAKER_00]: Now what did you think?

01:23:20.637 --> 01:23:24.062
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of Okada versus Nakamura as the guy?

01:23:24.852 --> 01:23:30.721
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted Nakamura, but that's just me because it would have been such a weird thing to see.

01:23:31.022 --> 01:23:31.262
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:23:31.282 --> 01:23:31.843
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's okay.

01:23:31.863 --> 01:23:33.185
[SPEAKER_02]: Okada works.

01:23:33.466 --> 01:23:35.149
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it should be Okada.

01:23:35.169 --> 01:23:36.351
[SPEAKER_02]: It should be Okada.

01:23:36.371 --> 01:23:43.742
[SPEAKER_02]: Because Okada and Tanahashi had the rivalry that made New Japan rise to as high as it got.

01:23:44.984 --> 01:23:47.168
[SPEAKER_02]: That's really what got me reinvested.

01:23:47.188 --> 01:23:50.353
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know about you, but I feel was the one that got me reinvested.

01:23:50.333 --> 01:23:51.315
[SPEAKER_02]: into New Japan.

01:23:51.675 --> 01:23:59.448
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, so Nakamura was in really, I mean, they wrestled, but he didn't have like a legendary feud with them.

01:23:59.849 --> 01:24:07.021
[SPEAKER_02]: It would have just been kind of weird to see, like just, you know, but you know, and I do believe that they thought about it.

01:24:07.041 --> 01:24:08.324
[SPEAKER_02]: They just couldn't come up with turns.

01:24:08.344 --> 01:24:11.088
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, maybe it may be Paul was like, you can't work with Tony on this show.

01:24:11.148 --> 01:24:15.075
[SPEAKER_02]: And then New Japan was like, we can't do that, you know, we were like Tony.

01:24:15.055 --> 01:24:26.095
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the thing, the thing that I wonder about that is how many people wanted to see Nakamura just because they think that

01:24:26.294 --> 01:24:30.941
[SPEAKER_00]: Tony takes advantage of that New Japan relationship and doesn't give back enough.

01:24:30.981 --> 01:24:44.220
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's a little bit of there's a little bit of that audience who's like stick at the Tony this one time because he's took all your guys and I wonder how much of that was behind the fans who wanted to see Nakamura actually get the match.

01:24:44.240 --> 01:24:55.997
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so I think I think there's a lot to that and you know what at the end of the day not do you stop being part of it from allowing Nakamura just to show up and do these little

01:24:55.977 --> 01:24:58.341
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I think there was a lot to that.

01:24:58.481 --> 01:25:03.188
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people don't like how they're not just with with New Japan.

01:25:03.208 --> 01:25:08.857
[SPEAKER_02]: He does that with CMLR as well, you know, and that's one of the things that TK gets a big, I don't know.

01:25:08.917 --> 01:25:11.001
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like people are very easy on him for that.

01:25:11.081 --> 01:25:18.092
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he does take advantage of a lot of these other companies, their workers and nobody ever says anything.

01:25:18.112 --> 01:25:23.200
[SPEAKER_02]: If it was triple age doing that, I mean, he would get how all over the place, but it's because it's TK and

01:25:23.180 --> 01:25:35.890
[SPEAKER_02]: his families loves them so much, you know, that they never bring up the fact that new Japan wrestlers or similar all wrestlers are like essentially per limb guys in NAW TV, you know.

01:25:36.157 --> 01:25:42.926
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I have another thing that nobody is really talking about is how much this Ocara actually want to do this?

01:25:43.166 --> 01:25:49.354
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't know if you notice this, but Ocara has kept his distance from anything that has to do with New Japan.

01:25:49.614 --> 01:25:55.482
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he hasn't gone back, I'm not like we think of he hasn't gone back since he left.

01:25:56.288 --> 01:26:00.874
[SPEAKER_02]: And even not just New Japan, just Japan in general, like you never see him anywhere.

01:26:00.934 --> 01:26:06.842
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, it seems like the moment he decided to come to a W, he kind of closed the door on Japan.

01:26:06.882 --> 01:26:09.125
[SPEAKER_02]: And not just New Japan, just Japan.

01:26:10.046 --> 01:26:14.051
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know how much he wants to be there, you know?

01:26:14.111 --> 01:26:15.192
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not gonna be interesting to see.

01:26:15.213 --> 01:26:19.478
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see.

01:26:20.116 --> 01:26:21.398
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I want to see that match.

01:26:21.699 --> 01:26:26.927
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's going to be a lot of emotion because like you, that's what got me super invested in New Japan.

01:26:26.947 --> 01:26:28.590
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not expecting I'm a Gilmour break.

01:26:28.610 --> 01:26:30.192
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not expecting a five star match.

01:26:30.253 --> 01:26:31.134
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, I'm not.

01:26:31.154 --> 01:26:32.917
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw the last, I saw the last Oman.

01:26:32.937 --> 01:26:35.281
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw the last Ocarotana Hashimatch live.

01:26:35.621 --> 01:26:40.369
[SPEAKER_00]: It was in San Jose at that battle in the Valley like two years ago, I think.

01:26:40.349 --> 01:26:59.033
[SPEAKER_00]: that was the last one and and you know it wasn't a five star match but it was four and a half you know wow that's still pretty good it was good it was a really good match and so now we are two years later Tanahashi is you know even more injured Alcada is not the same Alcada obviously he doesn't

01:26:59.013 --> 01:27:02.019
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he feels like he has to be the same alcada either.

01:27:02.059 --> 01:27:08.992
[SPEAKER_00]: So that'll be interesting to see at what lengths they go to make this match as classic as they can.

01:27:09.012 --> 01:27:12.499
[SPEAKER_00]: I, what I don't want to see though,

01:27:12.817 --> 01:27:18.183
[SPEAKER_00]: As I don't want to see that Ocata and Takeshita thing kind of interfere in what this match should be.

01:27:18.263 --> 01:27:19.945
[SPEAKER_00]: So I hope that they keep that separate.

01:27:19.965 --> 01:27:22.308
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope they keep the AEW storyline out of this.

01:27:22.809 --> 01:27:26.113
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be kind of bothered if like it's kind of reference.

01:27:26.693 --> 01:27:27.975
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, man, one more time.

01:27:28.015 --> 01:27:30.858
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, I'm so out on the New Japan product right now.

01:27:31.899 --> 01:27:42.672
[SPEAKER_00]: But this, I will keep my New Japan

01:27:43.968 --> 01:27:56.766
[SPEAKER_00]: I did for the G1, and then I let it lapse and then I re-subscribed recently because I wanted to see the Tanahashi and Yuto Ice match.

01:27:57.607 --> 01:28:11.646
[SPEAKER_00]: But then that's when the Okada thing happened, I also wanted to see that and so then I wanted to, you know, I'll just keep it, it's only a couple more months, but yeah, you know, once this Okada Tanahashi Tokyo dome, the Russell Kingdom, I'll probably turn it off again.

01:28:11.626 --> 01:28:41.262
[SPEAKER_00]: because it's because there's nothing there right now that is really uh... getting me a super excited but for this one match i think it's i think it's going to be pretty tremendous so it'll be that i don't we'll see if i stay up i think Dave's already planning on uh... hang uh... sleep over at Dave's house uh... but i don't know we'll see because that that that i think it's harder and harder every year to yeah i don't watch it i don't watch it live i watch it the next day

01:28:41.242 --> 01:28:42.104
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I do?

01:28:42.144 --> 01:28:44.989
[SPEAKER_02]: I usually watch the the rumble thing they do.

01:28:45.831 --> 01:28:46.832
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's early enough.

01:28:46.852 --> 01:28:48.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes like a 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock.

01:28:48.796 --> 01:28:50.840
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then I go to sleep and then I watch the next day.

01:28:51.181 --> 01:28:53.144
[SPEAKER_02]: But I've always watched the Tokyo Dom show.

01:28:53.164 --> 01:28:55.469
[SPEAKER_02]: Even when I'm out into the product, I always watch that show.

01:28:55.889 --> 01:29:02.642
[SPEAKER_02]: Like people that watch WrestleMania, they're not into the product, you know, such a special, such a special day.

01:29:02.622 --> 01:29:04.364
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and so I'm looking forward to it.

01:29:04.424 --> 01:29:07.928
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, unfortunately, they could they just couldn't get over all the the young lions.

01:29:07.968 --> 01:29:08.910
[SPEAKER_02]: It just couldn't get them over.

01:29:08.930 --> 01:29:09.711
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they're over.

01:29:09.771 --> 01:29:13.335
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know they're going to try with the guy that's going to wrestle.

01:29:13.355 --> 01:29:25.930
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, so hopefully he gets something going, but we'll see, but it's just so hard not because as soon as anybody gets over a W W is natural right up, you know,

01:29:25.910 --> 01:29:28.153
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's hard to be the third brand right now.

01:29:28.173 --> 01:29:40.652
[SPEAKER_02]: And even there's NXT there's TNA like there's so many places right now, which is good But to be like New Japan is it's bad because there's no talent available right now But yeah, we'll see I will say this though.

01:29:40.772 --> 01:29:50.567
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's time for both Cena and Tana Hashie I think they're calling it a quiz at the right time because if we see both of those guys move man like they're not moving well, you know

01:29:50.547 --> 01:30:01.041
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and and seen a set it, you know, seen that had that promo and MSG right after he's like, I want to do this forever, but I have to listen to my body and I can't anymore and I guess he doesn't want to be a parody of himself.

01:30:01.802 --> 01:30:05.006
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and so good for him, you know, and Tana Hutchins the same way.

01:30:05.447 --> 01:30:07.029
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think Tana Hutchins were softens.

01:30:07.069 --> 01:30:13.318
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a little older than seen up, but he's also worse off than him because I think Tana Hutchins, he can't even move man.

01:30:13.358 --> 01:30:16.462
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like barely moving on with those knees and stuff.

01:30:16.482 --> 01:30:20.267
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, I saw him live last time

01:30:21.108 --> 01:30:28.262
[SPEAKER_00]: was, um, I think the last time AEW ran double or nothing in Vegas.

01:30:29.124 --> 01:30:34.234
[SPEAKER_00]: He showed up unannounced or maybe it was one of those like morning of T.K.

01:30:34.254 --> 01:30:36.298
[SPEAKER_00]: Tweets that Todd Hosh is going to I can't remember.

01:30:37.120 --> 01:30:42.711
[SPEAKER_00]: But he was there for collision before the, uh, the double or nothing show.

01:30:43.383 --> 01:30:46.587
[SPEAKER_00]: And what a joy just to see that dude live.

01:30:46.747 --> 01:30:49.670
[SPEAKER_00]: Like even though he cannot really move any more.

01:30:49.770 --> 01:30:51.052
[SPEAKER_00]: Just some wrestle.

01:30:51.092 --> 01:30:52.273
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he was some wrestle.

01:30:52.293 --> 01:30:53.555
[SPEAKER_00]: He wrestled the match.

01:30:53.615 --> 01:30:54.676
[SPEAKER_00]: He did his whole thing.

01:30:55.317 --> 01:30:59.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Just his presence, his, like just he stands out.

01:30:59.421 --> 01:31:02.044
[SPEAKER_00]: He still feels like a star when you watch him.

01:31:02.084 --> 01:31:08.452
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're like, okay, I'm gonna give him a mole again here on the wrestling, but it was fun.

01:31:08.512 --> 01:31:11.415
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad, you know, that,

01:31:11.783 --> 01:31:20.838
[SPEAKER_00]: Collision is collision, but the sea town of Hashi was on and I'm glad I went specifically for that because that would be the last time that I've seen them alive, I think.

01:31:21.399 --> 01:31:24.804
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we I got to see them a bunch of times, especially when he was a younger guy.

01:31:24.844 --> 01:31:31.395
[SPEAKER_02]: First time I saw him would have been in TNA, they had a house show here, and I'm tell you're kind of on your back in 2010.

01:31:31.375 --> 01:31:35.100
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if you remember, but they had that working agreement with New Japan for a while.

01:31:35.361 --> 01:31:38.986
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's where Kada was okay, you know, a very racist.

01:31:39.106 --> 01:31:40.388
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.

01:31:40.408 --> 01:31:42.972
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and, and, and, you know, and they had a night.

01:31:42.992 --> 01:31:47.518
[SPEAKER_02]: So, what was a team no limit, I think it was they were called a night.

01:31:47.538 --> 01:31:50.903
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and, and the Tokyo PIMS guy, they were a tag team.

01:31:50.883 --> 01:32:01.231
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, whatever happened with that guy, that's the guy that vanished a lot of thin air, you know, but uh, but uh, yeah, both of them actually both the team no limit just vanished.

01:32:01.251 --> 01:32:06.225
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and so yeah, I remember talking about how she wrestled low key.

01:32:06.205 --> 01:32:10.150
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it was Frankie Cousarion, a triple thread match to open up the show.

01:32:10.631 --> 01:32:18.181
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was just a young Japanese guy at that time, 2010, and I would never believe they like a few years later, he would be like the big star, you know?

01:32:18.541 --> 01:32:19.482
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.

01:32:19.623 --> 01:32:31.318
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, when you have those years or those careers in wrestling, because wrestling, you know, a lot of the times isn't really mainstream,

01:32:31.383 --> 01:32:58.369
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, when you're able to kind of look at the body of work and to think of like can you a man like my knees are done and that's just from playing, you know, high school sports and then recreational sports, you know, into my 30s and my knees are done and these dudes were working in those hard ring or not hard, but you know, rings not soft like just night in and night out just.

01:32:58.349 --> 01:33:04.138
[SPEAKER_00]: going at it for how many years like it's incredible how long they've been able to last.

01:33:04.178 --> 01:33:08.264
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I'm so amazed with AJ Styles too because he's in the same class, right?

01:33:08.284 --> 01:33:12.350
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, I know he says he wants to retire because he can't do things anymore.

01:33:12.730 --> 01:33:14.994
[SPEAKER_02]: But I look at the guy in work and he's still great.

01:33:15.034 --> 01:33:18.699
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he's somebody that that does he's not like Senior Tana Hashie.

01:33:18.719 --> 01:33:20.101
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the Styles could still go.

01:33:20.482 --> 01:33:24.608
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, maybe maybe he hides it while I don't know, but he's also been very honest.

01:33:24.628 --> 01:33:27.192
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he just

01:33:27.172 --> 01:33:30.776
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm going to make you, I'm going to make it because I'm also pretty banged up, you know, I just turned 45.

01:33:31.277 --> 01:33:33.599
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm like, I'm pretty beat up myself.

01:33:33.639 --> 01:33:35.942
[SPEAKER_02]: And like you said, that's just from like being active.

01:33:36.202 --> 01:33:36.522
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:33:36.542 --> 01:33:38.164
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not really in sports or nothing.

01:33:38.264 --> 01:33:41.107
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just your daily grind of being walking or whatever.

01:33:41.948 --> 01:33:43.010
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but yeah.

01:33:43.250 --> 01:33:44.812
[SPEAKER_02]: So props to those guys.

01:33:45.392 --> 01:33:48.816
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I'm, you know, I'll talk more about this in the care.

01:33:48.836 --> 01:33:55.103
[SPEAKER_02]: Be retrospective of senior, but I also was there when he won the world title

01:33:55.083 --> 01:34:23.335
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... the match was very underwhelming but the moment was special uh... you know i remember the guy he came in with a lot of high from that manhaw and show remember the show manhaw he came in from with a lot of high from that uh... and and yeah i mean he's a guy that was born to be a star i mean he was he was in this whole thing how they were going to fire i'm i don't know how true that is but the guy had the guy had the main event thing going from the very beginning and you know he got a big run out of it too so i was reading an old observer

01:34:23.585 --> 01:34:25.369
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm thinking about this now.

01:34:25.489 --> 01:34:29.578
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if you were at or around these shows.

01:34:30.500 --> 01:34:39.741
[SPEAKER_00]: So Sina was doing the, what was the group that he was working for back in back before WWE?

01:34:40.102 --> 01:34:41.104
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I PW.

01:34:41.945 --> 01:34:43.267
[SPEAKER_00]: APW, is that something's called?

01:34:43.427 --> 01:34:44.248
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you pw.

01:34:44.328 --> 01:34:44.849
[SPEAKER_00]: You pw.

01:34:45.069 --> 01:34:45.530
[SPEAKER_00]: You pw.

01:34:45.590 --> 01:35:02.091
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I was reading an old 2001 observer and Dave wrote that Dwayne was going to go do a spot at UPW and it was going to be him and the prototype, we're going to do something together.

01:35:02.111 --> 01:35:06.957
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is like how many years before they actually, you know, had their stuff together.

01:35:07.173 --> 01:35:13.202
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the last minute that the rock had to cancel, he had to do something else so they didn't actually do it.

01:35:13.262 --> 01:35:16.988
[SPEAKER_00]: But imagine if in 2001, you know, Dwayne shows up at that show.

01:35:17.068 --> 01:35:19.532
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have been something man, what a future.

01:35:19.552 --> 01:35:20.733
[SPEAKER_02]: The predictor of the future.

01:35:21.034 --> 01:35:22.176
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that have been crazy.

01:35:22.596 --> 01:35:26.642
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because no, because rolling out like Sandor had APW.

01:35:27.163 --> 01:35:28.205
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was going to.

01:35:28.285 --> 01:35:30.168
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Rick Basman had APW.

01:35:30.188 --> 01:35:30.368
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

01:35:30.388 --> 01:35:32.291
[SPEAKER_02]: It was always a North Cal Soul Counting.

01:35:32.711 --> 01:35:35.155
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:35:35.354 --> 01:35:50.798
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so the next one we do will be kind of the the end of the 84 series will do it sometime in in December, but it's been it's been kind of it's been kind of interesting because not that.

01:35:51.048 --> 01:36:01.323
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we know a lot about what happens in 84, but to have it at this much detail, it kind of enhances or helps shape your view of what Vince was able to do.

01:36:01.844 --> 01:36:07.072
[SPEAKER_00]: Both positively and negatively, if you were like, big David, you were a fan of territory wrestling.

01:36:07.813 --> 01:36:07.953
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:36:07.973 --> 01:36:15.004
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Big Dave has been very upset with Vince for many, and I could see that it started before he started hanging around with all these promoters.

01:36:15.204 --> 01:36:15.425
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:36:15.645 --> 01:36:15.865
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:36:15.885 --> 01:36:19.030
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, maybe he was already during this time, who knows?

01:36:19.010 --> 01:36:21.741
[SPEAKER_02]: Who's the who's a promoter from Houston?

01:36:22.203 --> 01:36:23.749
[SPEAKER_02]: That was one of Dave's boys right there.

01:36:25.114 --> 01:36:26.098
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, Bosch?

01:36:26.118 --> 01:36:26.781
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Bosch.

01:36:26.982 --> 01:36:29.070
[SPEAKER_02]: Because Bosch is the one that hated Vince.

01:36:29.742 --> 01:36:32.545
[SPEAKER_02]: and watches the one that told Dave never to trust Vince.

01:36:33.365 --> 01:36:37.549
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think Dave stayed with that till this day.

01:36:37.990 --> 01:36:39.551
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so it's interesting.

01:36:39.571 --> 01:36:43.234
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, look, Vince is a horrible human being.

01:36:43.254 --> 01:36:51.362
[SPEAKER_02]: We know that, but I have so much appreciation for how he solved the business, like his mind, how it was working during this time.

01:36:51.802 --> 01:36:53.624
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the guy was a genius up into 2001.

01:36:53.664 --> 01:36:55.305
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he couldn't do no wrong.

01:36:55.786 --> 01:36:59.209
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the XFL just broke him

01:36:59.189 --> 01:37:00.791
[SPEAKER_02]: that's always been my theory anyway.

01:37:01.973 --> 01:37:06.018
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I mean, we'll see, I'm going to get to see a show.

01:37:06.038 --> 01:37:07.780
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going, I'm going to see start K 84.

01:37:07.880 --> 01:37:09.623
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you're going to see it, but I'm going to see it.

01:37:10.163 --> 01:37:10.664
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was going to.

01:37:10.764 --> 01:37:12.126
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would love to rewatch that.

01:37:12.747 --> 01:37:25.804
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, maybe maybe before we do, maybe before we do, because I don't think Dave will have it covered in in 84 to end 84, but maybe we'll we'll check it out and just have some thoughts about it as our kind of end of this series.

01:37:25.784 --> 01:37:27.909
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but then but we also have 85 now.

01:37:27.929 --> 01:37:29.693
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's I'm sure he picks it up in 85.

01:37:30.094 --> 01:37:37.971
[SPEAKER_02]: So even if I have to kind of go over and then we'll talk about what we're going to do next here, you know, yeah, yeah, it could be 85 doesn't have to be, but we'll see.

01:37:38.035 --> 01:37:40.397
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it'll it'll it'll be whatever.

01:37:40.458 --> 01:37:42.540
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we have the freedom to do whatever we want.

01:37:42.620 --> 01:37:48.366
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we still got to do our giant Dodgers show in December as well on my other on my other channel.

01:37:48.986 --> 01:37:53.591
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that'll come up once we see some of these free agents where they land and you know the moves that they make.

01:37:54.232 --> 01:37:57.095
[SPEAKER_00]: And that'll be that'll be a happy show for you for sure.

01:37:57.675 --> 01:37:59.377
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.

01:37:59.397 --> 01:38:07.806
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're taking a lot of flack, you know, we bought some people say we bought this title, some people say that we're going to break baseball, we broke baseball, who knows.

01:38:08.073 --> 01:38:13.759
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you see the baseball, the latest TV deals that they got, that they've read.

01:38:13.779 --> 01:38:15.121
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they made an announcement today.

01:38:15.141 --> 01:38:16.262
[SPEAKER_02]: There are Netflix now.

01:38:16.683 --> 01:38:19.065
[SPEAKER_00]: Giants and Yankees, opening night Netflix.

01:38:19.786 --> 01:38:25.132
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's one thing I don't like, is this whole, like, just interleague play, like, it's like a regular schedule now.

01:38:25.473 --> 01:38:25.973
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:38:25.993 --> 01:38:30.478
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I think it was a second time, and like two or three years that the Giants have opened up in New York.

01:38:31.519 --> 01:38:32.140
[SPEAKER_00]: OK.

01:38:32.339 --> 01:38:34.042
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to be the hot taking memories.

01:38:34.082 --> 01:38:35.184
[SPEAKER_02]: New York versus New York.

01:38:35.224 --> 01:38:36.166
[SPEAKER_02]: That always gets over.

01:38:36.487 --> 01:38:36.807
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:38:36.827 --> 01:38:37.048
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:38:37.488 --> 01:38:37.889
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

01:38:38.410 --> 01:38:39.171
[SPEAKER_00]: That is it from here.

01:38:39.432 --> 01:38:41.816
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to Draven for hanging out and doing this.

01:38:41.896 --> 01:38:45.243
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll be like I said, we'll be back with the the year ender for 84.

01:38:46.204 --> 01:38:47.006
[SPEAKER_00]: So for Draven.

01:38:47.026 --> 01:38:48.468
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm WCC when we see you.

01:38:48.649 --> 01:38:53.217
[SPEAKER_00]: Happen have a happy Thanksgiving to everybody piece out.