Disappointing Finish? Moxley vs. Allin I Quit Reaction | Bucks' Style & Ilja Dragunov | Takedown

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[SPEAKER_01]: it is the rare live stream edition of takedown.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And before we get into this wrestling nonsense Paul, there's some important things happening tonight.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is it pertains to the American League Championship series?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's also a jet game too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I got a busy night when we're done.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, I first I was like the jets you're talking hockey.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You're not talking.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Two Monday night.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You're two Monday night football games on hockey is on there's the ALCS game seven and then basketball starts tomorrow.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to get crazy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's that it's the this award for it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the sporting Equinox or something like where it's like all the all the major sports are played at the same time So what you know by the time people on the podcast list and the spaceball game will be over What is your feeling right now going into game seven?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I, I, I don't know God.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm just happy we got this far the j's and feel like the j's should win game seven at home.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think they got Bieber starting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's like that's the big trade deadline acquisition.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they should win, but my confidence is like like a 5.02 out of 10.

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[SPEAKER_00]: like, you know what I mean?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, it's not like I'm just very, very slightly leaning up, but I'm really looking forward to the game.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Before we get to our three topics, there was a pay preview on Saturday.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Jeremy and I did our recap on Saturday night.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What was your score or grade or main takeaway after watching that show?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was like an eight out of ten, like I really, like I thought it was a good show, like very good show, I probably would have gone higher, like nine, maybe even nine and a half, if you know, you removed like three of the matches or found, I wouldn't even say find a way to get it like, you know, three and a half hours, four hours, whatever, I mean, obviously I think the paper user too long, but there was matches that I didn't think needed to be on the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when it like at the end of the day like if you would remove those those matches from the show, it makes it a better show and so if you're going to make a show four and a half hours don't do it by adding matches that don't need to be there is is my point so like Mercedes matches a perfect example like I have no idea why that matches on the show like it didn't draw a single buy because nobody even knew it was happening.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it made the show longer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It had no heat.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was probably the worst match on the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I have no idea what the point was other than she won a belt.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's already got the record anyways because she won a belt the next night in Winnipeg.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And let's Tony just wanted to have it on his air when she got her 11th belt.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I guess maybe that was the point right there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there was some...

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[SPEAKER_01]: uh, the reason why it wasn't promoted very well is because she had a title defense in Mexico so you couldn't have promoted her as winning the, you know, as being the champion going in just in case she lost so I think that was the reason.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know that I I somewhat agree with you if people who listen to that show with Jeremy and I you you guys heard our issues, but we'll talk about two things on this episode of take down and let's start with number one because I've been really thinking about this and I had a little bit of the headline of this show is I wouldn't call it click bait, but it is there to You know just kind of go, oh, what is this that they're talking about so the headline in the YouTube stream

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[SPEAKER_01]: was young buck self-indulgent and I think a lot of people and I'm going to guess Dave is going to give this young bucks against Jack Perry and Lich source match minimum foreign three quarter stars.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if he's going to go full five.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's going to go full five for at least

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[SPEAKER_01]: But as I was watching the match and I'll tell you who I watched it with and my fight game podcast partner, John Morocco, Jeremy and our two buddies, the Rubio Brothers, David and Miguel.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And as I'm watching this match, I'm thinking like, man, the young books may be the smoothest wrestlers when it comes to putting together combination slash tag team maneuvers, the athleticism and the grace and the timing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But you rarely see them watch anything, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of their stuff is complex.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not easy stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, they're working on this stuff in the back.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But still, the level of degree of difficulty is insane for them to hit nearly everything perfectly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so Kudos to them, because they're probably the best I've ever seen at the ability to make really, really hard things look so smooth.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think my issue with this match was too full.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The first was that I hated the angle going in.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a joke and I don't like jokes, necessarily as serious things.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm not invested in the match whatsoever because there's no real stakes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Jungle Boy and Luchosaurus, the actual builds to this, should be the beef with

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[SPEAKER_01]: jungle boy and the books, but instead it's played for laughs with some fake monopoly money instead.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the first thing for me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Second thing is it is the second match on the paper view.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The second match on the paper view is generally

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[SPEAKER_01]: not a fantastic spot for, you know, important things, like it's, it's usually just a match.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, everything that they, they put on that show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure Tony would say, well, there's a reason for it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And you and I may not think that that's a great reason.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But this reason for having this match is literally just because the young buck should be on every paper view because they're great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And this was one of those matches.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so as they go through

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's building, and it's building, and it's like, oh my gosh, like how much are they going to put in this second match.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Open and, you know, they went through every possible thing you could go through and again, athletically timing wise grace perfection.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But when they get to the finish, finally, my feeling at the end of the matches,

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of people who are fucked after this point because not only are they the only people who could do that, but now you have us sitting there for another three and a half hours for the rest of the show including live crowd and shout out to the live crowd because I thought for the most part they were good, but I was thinking about the women's matches like, okay, Chris and Tony cannot do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: jumping hurrah canronas from the apron to the floor that is just not within their style of wrestling not within their athleticism.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They cannot do these insane chain combo moves in their match.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a different match.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like they, that match sabotaged the other, you know, some of the matches which came after it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The Hertz indicate and the gates of agony, the demand, like that, that was sabotaged in a sense.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so then I thought, okay, as a wrestling fan, it is really about preference.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I knew I'm very aware that we're going to be sitting here for another

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[SPEAKER_01]: the crowd is there to buy ticket, they're like, hey, give us your best.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Give us everything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We want to see everything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is live wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you're the box and you know that when you are on a paper view, there is a high expectation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is it your responsibility to pull back on what you do in a match or is it your responsibility to just have the best match and not worry about everyone else on the card and here's and here's the sports metaphor that I was going to use for you the the analogy that I have for you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Kobe Bryant's, like, first two years away from Shack are really bad, but Lakers are not great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so what does Kobe do?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he just goes out and puts up like 35 points of game.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not his fault that his team is not great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I'm not going to let this lack of greatness stop me from my greatness.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So when it came to MVP awards, people were like, nope, those are empty Steve Nash, who's stats were not nearly as great, but his

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, you know what, but good for Kobe, because Kobe wanted to prove one thing, which is his dominance is the reason why you can let a shack go.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what he was there to prove.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So in that extent, if you're the young bucks and you're like, it's not our fault, or maybe it is somewhat their fault, that they have a shitty angle that means nothing on television.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're just going to go out there and wrestle the best match possible.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then this is the last thing and I'll get your thoughts on this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: However, then being EVPs and having a close relationship with Tony Khan and being pioneers and being day one employees, they probably have a lot more leeway than other people would have in a second from the top match like this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I just don't know, if you're Tony Khan, do you want them to have that match and just everyone else has to raise their game?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we've heard it from the Willow Spray perspective of like, this is why Willow Spray should be in the main event because following him the next match is dead.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so where are you?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because I say the bucks are self-indulgent and that is somewhat negative, but also at the same time, it's like, of course, like this is what they do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, these are the kind of matches that they have.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to put so many things into their matches because they know the fans, this is what the fans expect and they're just feeding what their fan base is like.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So again, the headline is a little negative, but this is meant to more be more of a discussion than just on the books thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So where do you follow on this as a wrestling fan?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to see everything you possibly need to see on a wrestling show by match two?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Or do you care?

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot there that you just said, it's not at all where I thought you're going to go with this either.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it really had I was thinking and a few different things in my head as you're going there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: First off, I thought the match was I thought it was the best match on the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And like, but that's just, you know, strictly the match, you know, and and honestly like.

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[SPEAKER_00]: the commentary was what ticked me off in this match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I didn't like the story, but the commentators were like just constantly making jokes about the bucks and their money and the dinosaur and what's he going to do with money and about and it was just like just call the frickin match.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, but it's just the storyline, by the way, I know it's a match based on what the story

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, and that's what pissed me off.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it reminded me of the storyline that I hated.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the action itself was so good that the match overcame the bad commentating.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's funny because if you go back to what I originally said about the show and how it was so long, and then I'm thinking about you and saying like, OK, they come out here in the second match, and they just tore their house down, and the big complaint, one of the complaints about the show

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[SPEAKER_00]: The crowd was dead through most of the show and they were hot for the first two matches.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I wonder why that was based on what we just said, because you, you had the bucks and Jurassic Express just to have this awesome match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was 23 minutes long.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The second match on the show shouldn't be 23 minutes long.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's another thing, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they just took this audience on a roller coaster and they just blew the house down and then you send out the hurts into kit and the demand for a match we've seen three times in the last month and it was the same match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was the same match we've seen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I, you know, some people might say it was a little better.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was the exact same match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Same hand, pretty similar style, nothing surprised, nothing surprised you in the matter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if they would have

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[SPEAKER_00]: If they, number one, if this match would have been further up the card, and number two, if you remove a bunch of the matches, so maybe the main event is, is the Darby match, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because that had to be the main event based on what they were doing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is like the co-main.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You have the world title in the third spot.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You have maybe the, the women's title like Tony in, in the fourth spot, Kyle Fletcher, Mark Briscoe, you have the FTR match opening the

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and it's like three, three and a half hours and and you're building the audience and you're you're just getting them more and more up up up up up you know and yeah and that that all the sudden that bucks match becomes so much more important because it's the domain event.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe people are actually taking this half a million dollars seriously, you know, like I remember, you know, you and I both remember, remember the Terry invitation series, the TIT, yeah, but the main, the main event of that series ended up being a match on pay per view for a hundred thousand dollars.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Which, you know, like that was probably equivalent to 500,000 now, you know, like because it was the mid 90s, late 90s and and it meant something that these two young teams were fighting for 100 grand and for a contract with Terry, I guess and and it was one of the, you know, it was a tag team ladder match, which obviously was a big deal about it too, like this actually would have been better and I don't like ladder matches wherever, but if that half a million dollars was hanging on from a ceiling or something like this would have even better.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, just the fact that it was like at ringside, then I just pick up my bag and then, and then at the after the match, a Jack Perry doesn't even care about the money anymore.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's like trying to give it to the box.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, you're in a defense.

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[UNKNOWN]: It's a

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[SPEAKER_00]: What were you fighting for?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'll even go back a little further to 1985, Andre the Giant, Big Johnson, Real Stomanio 1, 15,000 a lot of them challenge.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The career versus the body slam.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And even back then, I was like, eight or nine years old, even back then, I knew it was BS.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like I was like, this is silly, but this is just what wrestling is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So now like, yeah, I'm sorry.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I could say I'm agreeing in a sense.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I didn't even think about what you were saying about hurting the rest of the card.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, but the other thing I wanted to point out, you know what reminded me of is Shane McMahon.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And how he used to go out there and he would wrestle not that often, but he jump off like a building or, you know, like a tight and tron or like, and nobody else could do that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, maybe they could, but they weren't allowed to.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So he he's like a, you know, an executive with the company and he's doing something that nobody else can do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's like follow that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's Darby's true inspiration is wrestler Shane McMahon, maybe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, lots maybe take a little bit from Shane McMahon.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't be surprised at all.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're big WWF fans.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, if this match now, this is what I mean when I say stakes are important.

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[SPEAKER_01]: if this match was built up in a way where it was the blow off and they'd already done two matches and it was one to one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of the day, there are true stakes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What maybe the tag titles are actually involved.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Then there is reason for all of the drama of all the nearfalls and all the desperate, you know, pinning mechanisms and such and all and all the like the reversals and and trying to get the fans to bite because yeah, it's it's

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[SPEAKER_01]: But let's say also I'm trying to think so because the tag title match the tag title match was

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[SPEAKER_01]: more important in the storyline of AEW, the AEW ecosystem in universe.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You have Ocata and Takeshita, they're building this thing to Takeshita's IWGP champion, Ocata's United Champion, you have these new tag champions who you're trying to get over.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That matches more important to the television show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: those two teams and and I've heard some of the feedback was that because they didn't wrestle at this insane pace that people actually thought the beginning was little boring and the only thing that mattered was the last five minutes or the last eight minutes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So you could

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[SPEAKER_01]: At least before that tag that title match, then maybe maybe our interpretation of what they were doing is a little bit different.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we don't care as much about the slow style of the match to heat up until the end, because again, not every tag team can wrestle like the bucks and go at that high pace for the entire match.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They are the best I've ever seen at that style of wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_01]: singles or or tag teams, by the way, just to to stay at that pace and just go, go, go and setting up things along the way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, if it was the main event, then I'm all for what they did.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, but, you know, I don't, I just don't know, you know, when we were growing up and learning about the business,

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[SPEAKER_01]: we kind of learned that if you were building a card and putting it at a card and I've asked John the Rock about this because he's booked for APW for years and years and he booked his own promotion and he studied under Roland Alexander who's as old school as they come right and Roland Alexander told him the two most important matches on your show are the main event and the opener

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[SPEAKER_01]: gets the crowd ready for what they're about to see.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then the main event, obviously, you want the show to peek by the main event.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But those rules are like, they don't exist anymore in the wrestling that we watch today because even go back to the Russell Paluso show, which

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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't like it all, but what was the biggest, biggest match on that show?

19:37.178 --> 19:44.306
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the tag with CM Punk and AJ Lee, and then poor Cody and Drew McIntyre by the time they were in the ring together.

19:44.346 --> 19:48.911
[SPEAKER_01]: People were like, all right, we already saw what we came to see to bad for you guys.

19:49.211 --> 19:53.315
[SPEAKER_01]: So even both companies, they don't always follow those old school rules.

19:53.415 --> 19:55.057
[SPEAKER_01]: A, W doesn't follow it at all, by the way.

19:55.117 --> 19:58.581
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't care about that stuff, which is part of

19:58.561 --> 20:15.827
[SPEAKER_01]: The uniqueness and the reason why I think that their fan base loves them so much, it's like out with the old in with the new this is our own thing we create new rules and you've seen that right Chris Jericho's like oh wow I've learned just as much from the boxes they've learned from me because they have shown me

20:16.043 --> 20:21.608
[SPEAKER_01]: sort of like a new way to do things which I always grew up to know existed in a different way.

20:21.728 --> 20:39.504
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is not even a dismissal of the bucks and I hope that people realize that I do enjoy their work, but it's just there is a I just kind of wonder why those old rules don't matter in some cases and I wonder if they should matter and maybe they shouldn't.

20:39.584 --> 20:46.050
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's like just not the way

20:46.030 --> 21:04.096
[SPEAKER_01]: The, you know, when we think about a big show now, New Japan doesn't, is not super old school in the way that they book all the time, though they, they're, they are more traditional than WWE and AEW, I would suggest, like how, how are they going to book the Tokyo dome.

21:04.757 --> 21:09.945
[SPEAKER_00]: They usually, they usually start with the lower level matches and they build.

21:10.313 --> 21:16.364
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, whereas UFC is more like probably like the traditional progress and where they start with a hot match.

21:17.225 --> 21:17.626
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

21:17.646 --> 21:22.274
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they kind of dial it down and then they build back up to the main advantage of their title matches.

21:22.535 --> 21:22.855
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

21:23.136 --> 21:30.148
[SPEAKER_00]: And then like honestly like on this show, like FTR Jets beat, I mean, it bled over from collision, but that was a great way to start the show.

21:30.629 --> 21:30.769
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

21:30.749 --> 21:54.293
[SPEAKER_00]: and then the crowd was all fired up and then when Feclon Jamie haters started they kind of kept it up because they had that momentum to build off of and it wasn't like you couldn't top it because it wasn't like they had just an incredible like ten-minute match or whatever it was but like Jamie that would gave them a good starting point but yeah there's no way you're going to fall the box and especially not with the match you followed it with

21:54.357 --> 22:01.226
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we could have had this exact same conversation about John Cena and AJ at the exact same thing.

22:01.246 --> 22:05.292
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, for being, for being honest, like, yeah, like the John Cena did the same thing.

22:05.632 --> 22:07.134
[SPEAKER_00]: And we thought that should have been the main event.

22:07.374 --> 22:07.835
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, match.

22:08.115 --> 22:08.215
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

22:08.235 --> 22:11.380
[SPEAKER_00]: Like absolutely, you had to have the audience was wearing John Cena shirt.

22:11.780 --> 22:15.165
[SPEAKER_00]: He drew the gate, like at absolutely one percent should have been the main event.

22:15.185 --> 22:17.648
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what's the difference is that.

22:17.797 --> 22:32.158
[SPEAKER_01]: I was kind of laughing through the scene in the AJ match because there was a little bit of a wink wink, not not in that match that didn't exist in this young book's match, but then if I think about it, I feel like the young books always kind of have a little bit of a wink, not not that's just their style.

22:32.178 --> 22:43.534
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, if you, you know, old school wrestling, yeah, but so yeah, and I after if you would have heard me in Jeremy after that show.

22:43.514 --> 22:48.506
[SPEAKER_01]: I was kind of down on it just because I thought I was like, man, it's kind of selfish that they did that.

22:49.128 --> 22:56.507
[SPEAKER_01]: And then after thinking about it, and you know, this is why I like having this shows because, you know, we get to kind of sit with some stuff and then think about it.

22:56.527 --> 22:59.835
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, you know what, it's not really their fault.

22:59.855 --> 23:01.118
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time,

23:02.127 --> 23:09.955
[SPEAKER_01]: If they, you know, they have a fan base, they drive business, and so they should put all their stuff into their matches.

23:10.015 --> 23:13.619
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe at one point, maybe this was going to be later in the card.

23:13.639 --> 23:16.322
[SPEAKER_01]: So they built this match with the idea of is going to be later.

23:16.342 --> 23:18.745
[SPEAKER_01]: And then all of a sudden it was the second match on the show.

23:19.045 --> 23:24.511
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, there's lots of differentiations and variations to what could be happening.

23:24.551 --> 23:26.373
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just thought it was an interesting conversation.

23:26.393 --> 23:28.455
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not one that you really hear.

23:29.195 --> 23:38.530
[SPEAKER_01]: about wrestling today anymore because I think, and you and I both, you know, being, I'm still in my late 40s year in your early 50s.

23:39.311 --> 23:40.874
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't want to be old fashioned.

23:40.954 --> 23:42.737
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we don't want to get left behind.

23:42.817 --> 23:44.379
[SPEAKER_01]: So we kind of adapt our thinking.

23:44.419 --> 23:51.291
[SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes, I'm like, no, like, as much as I adapt to my thinking, like, I still feel like this is the better way to do it.

23:52.092 --> 23:55.337
[SPEAKER_01]: And, but it's just not, you know, it just doesn't always happen that way.

23:55.418 --> 23:56.559
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

23:56.579 --> 24:02.106
[SPEAKER_00]: I went one thing I wanted to say to was you and Jeremy do the gimmick where you guess Dave star ratings.

24:02.647 --> 24:06.652
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's going to have five matches on this show at four and a half for better.

24:07.413 --> 24:08.995
[SPEAKER_00]: I listen to the wrestling is a radio.

24:09.075 --> 24:20.650
[SPEAKER_00]: So I based on what he said after our jet speed, the bucks match, the Kyle Fletcher, Mark Briscoe, the the Brodito, because you go cut it's kind of the

24:20.630 --> 24:34.143
[SPEAKER_00]: And the main event you think the main event Jeremy did say he thought he thought it was at least four and a quarter for the main event I gave it four and a half and I think Dave will too and Dave will say I hate matches like this, but I have to respect the work and blah, blah Not only did I hate it.

24:34.163 --> 24:35.466
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was bad

24:36.256 --> 24:38.521
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, I, I thought it was good.

24:38.761 --> 24:41.406
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and I thought they worked well within the stipulation they had.

24:41.486 --> 24:46.797
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it worked to my benefit that St. Louis wouldn't allow them to do a lot of the things that they probably wanted to do.

24:47.579 --> 24:54.332
[SPEAKER_00]: And the story was good, but that's actually leads into my next topic is like the, um,

24:54.312 --> 24:55.814
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't finish.

24:56.034 --> 24:56.354
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't.

24:56.474 --> 24:57.516
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it could have been even.

24:57.576 --> 24:58.917
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have given you a higher score.

24:59.218 --> 25:00.699
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I think the match was bad.

25:01.100 --> 25:01.400
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

25:01.560 --> 25:03.102
[SPEAKER_00]: And for me, it's like it grew.

25:03.342 --> 25:05.224
[SPEAKER_00]: It took down what was a good match.

25:05.585 --> 25:09.229
[SPEAKER_00]: So I won't like completely like trash and match because of I didn't like finish.

25:09.249 --> 25:11.812
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll dock a half a star or a quarter star, whatever.

25:11.892 --> 25:23.425
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, like for the actual like it kind of

25:24.248 --> 25:28.972
[SPEAKER_00]: the way he did quickly to a wrestling hold.

25:29.393 --> 25:33.817
[SPEAKER_00]: After everything that these two had done to each other, he quits to a wrestling hold.

25:34.037 --> 25:37.881
[SPEAKER_00]: And number two and most importantly, we didn't get to hear it.

25:38.601 --> 25:40.263
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wasn't a submission match.

25:40.283 --> 25:41.424
[SPEAKER_00]: It was an I quit match.

25:41.604 --> 25:42.545
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't an I quit match.

25:42.725 --> 25:47.770
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's some conjecture on whether he tapped or if he said I quit.

25:48.190 --> 25:53.175
[SPEAKER_00]: And allegedly he said I quit.

25:53.830 --> 25:55.252
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care if the ref hurt it.

25:55.433 --> 25:56.575
[SPEAKER_00]: We need it to hear it.

25:57.236 --> 26:01.383
[SPEAKER_00]: And so whether that is a microphone, which I'm not necessarily advocating for.

26:02.164 --> 26:03.626
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a W production.

26:03.646 --> 26:09.536
[SPEAKER_00]: They needed to be focused on Moxley while he was quitting and we need to see him quit.

26:09.977 --> 26:11.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Hear him quit.

26:11.279 --> 26:35.363
[SPEAKER_00]: And if it's part of the story that the deathwriters are going to be mad at Moxley and maybe even dump him from the group as well as where I've seen people expecting because he gave up to quickly and he's been pushing this whole line of bullshit for the last year that they bought into and when the go and got tough, Mox got going, then we needed to hear it because they needed to hear it.

26:35.815 --> 26:41.603
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't know if that was a W production, if that was a choice that they made that we don't want it.

26:42.064 --> 26:44.007
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't want you to see Moxley quit.

26:44.768 --> 26:47.031
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it was, but I thought it was bad.

26:47.632 --> 26:57.807
[SPEAKER_00]: As far as like the stuff they did in the match, again, I'm not going to say, you know, and it was a nice surprise having staying there, even though I thought it was kind of goofy that

26:57.787 --> 27:00.652
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Darby is getting beat on by five people.

27:00.692 --> 27:01.634
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got no friends.

27:01.874 --> 27:06.542
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all the sudden sting shows up and he cleans out the death right at his mind.

27:06.582 --> 27:07.824
[SPEAKER_00]: So 67 year old grandpa sting.

27:08.004 --> 27:08.786
[SPEAKER_00]: I do it.

27:08.806 --> 27:11.991
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually made more sense to me for sting to show up there.

27:12.051 --> 27:16.639
[SPEAKER_01]: If he had also showed up at all in.

27:17.041 --> 27:27.051
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because then then there would like because as far as I mean, I'm sure we've seen Moxley and staying in the ring together, but there's like no real true tie to them.

27:27.131 --> 27:31.635
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we don't know if Moxley's all of a sudden scared of staying or for whatever reason.

27:31.675 --> 27:33.377
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why like that thing.

27:33.417 --> 27:37.121
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that the idea was is that Moxley said you have no friends.

27:37.221 --> 27:39.123
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody cares about you or something like that.

27:39.503 --> 27:41.245
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the lights go out and they'll come stay.

27:41.505 --> 27:43.487
[SPEAKER_01]: It would have made more sense to me.

27:44.092 --> 27:47.262
[SPEAKER_01]: for Danielson to come out in that moment.

27:47.964 --> 27:48.245
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

27:48.265 --> 27:52.178
[SPEAKER_01]: But state things the right guy, if you created like

27:52.563 --> 28:16.894
[SPEAKER_01]: If you had created a relationship to where the one guy mocks the like respects and as like that's the guy you need to like if that was in storyline right Darby i've been trying to teach you this but you know who knew that stuff the guy that's retired he knew that's who you need to be more like and they didn't do anything like that so then you know they could have done it with Eddie Kingston.

28:17.875 --> 28:20.899
[SPEAKER_01]: Could have done it with Eddie but Eddie's.

28:21.571 --> 28:24.939
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Eddie's in a tailgate Brawl land.

28:24.959 --> 28:25.861
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, get him out of there.

28:26.362 --> 28:35.142
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that, that would have worked so well if it were because they have that history and that would have bumped up Eddie and, oh my God.

28:35.628 --> 28:39.092
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so, you know, I do what you know, we're truly Monday morning quarter.

28:39.112 --> 28:41.375
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's easy to analyze after that.

28:41.595 --> 28:42.556
[SPEAKER_01]: Sting was a great moment.

28:42.596 --> 28:45.019
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can't, it was solid.

28:45.360 --> 28:49.985
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know if, you know, I was like, is that, is that supposed to be the ghost of sting?

28:50.045 --> 28:51.587
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this supposed to be sting?

28:51.707 --> 28:53.309
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is that supposed to be part of it?

28:53.709 --> 28:55.051
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a stink from the dead?

28:55.131 --> 28:56.052
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's going on here?

28:56.072 --> 29:00.117
[SPEAKER_00]: Rounding was silly, but I mean, I didn't think it was like that.

29:00.097 --> 29:06.389
[SPEAKER_00]: People are complaining about it, and I saw Mandy Huber was going, you know, going back before the Sarah stock on Twitter.

29:06.549 --> 29:11.258
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I saw a lot of people, like just Sarah stocked, and it's like, it was so dumb.

29:11.278 --> 29:14.604
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, they had them under water for like nine seconds, like, come on.

29:15.446 --> 29:17.430
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it was just stupid is what it was.

29:17.450 --> 29:21.818
[SPEAKER_01]: But what it went, but to me, the problem with the match, it wasn't a wrestling match.

29:21.798 --> 29:24.142
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it wasn't supposed to be a rest.

29:24.162 --> 29:30.492
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a fetishization of how much punishment a single person could take before he breaks.

29:31.473 --> 29:32.234
[SPEAKER_01]: And it didn't break.

29:32.455 --> 29:40.708
[SPEAKER_01]: It was that, you know, that's what the drama was was like how much is this guy willing to do and how much, you know, are we going to look away?

29:40.808 --> 29:41.549
[SPEAKER_01]: Are we going to watch?

29:41.609 --> 29:43.913
[SPEAKER_01]: Are we going to are we going to hold our breath while he's underwater?

29:44.293 --> 29:45.936
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that stuff is fine.

29:45.956 --> 29:49.341
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know if it's fine for pro wrestling.

29:50.114 --> 29:52.782
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that I thought all that stuff you're talking about.

29:52.802 --> 29:57.315
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was way worse on the all-out match than it was here.

29:57.816 --> 30:00.123
[SPEAKER_00]: Like on this, and maybe I'm desensitized, I don't know.

30:00.484 --> 30:05.338
[SPEAKER_00]: But for me, like I watched this match and it seems so much more tame than that one.

30:05.318 --> 30:07.501
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess in retrospect, you should have been the other way around.

30:07.941 --> 30:12.286
[SPEAKER_00]: It should have been this one was the one where it was like, what are these guys going to do?

30:12.326 --> 30:15.730
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, because Darby didn't even barely do anything to mocks.

30:15.750 --> 30:17.793
[SPEAKER_00]: What if feed them up with a bat, I guess.

30:18.333 --> 30:33.992
[SPEAKER_01]: So how would the St. Louis, or the not St. Louis, but the Missouri Commission, I wonder if they would have done this, if they would have done it, if they would have started outside of the building.

30:34.698 --> 30:47.915
[SPEAKER_01]: And they could have got gory stuff out of the way outside of the building and then when they come into the building and they come into the ring then it's more tame And I wonder if they could have done that way, but I'm with you.

30:47.935 --> 31:04.637
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad that it wasn't like yeah, you know all of the craziness, but maybe they could have just done it in that jail that they filmed the

31:04.735 --> 31:11.666
[SPEAKER_01]: So, what was the setup for moxley's an MMA fan?

31:11.946 --> 31:12.527
[SPEAKER_01]: We know this.

31:13.248 --> 31:19.418
[SPEAKER_01]: He watches MMA and is probably a bigger fan of actually watching MMA than he is of watching pro wrestling.

31:20.239 --> 31:21.521
[SPEAKER_01]: He understands submissions.

31:21.701 --> 31:25.427
[SPEAKER_01]: He understands the body with the body can take.

31:27.010 --> 31:31.759
[SPEAKER_01]: The terrible scorpion deathlock tap out comes out of nowhere.

31:32.340 --> 31:34.624
[SPEAKER_01]: Did his lower body get beaten down.

31:34.744 --> 31:36.528
[SPEAKER_02]: Did he get yeah.

31:36.568 --> 31:36.788
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

31:36.868 --> 31:41.197
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, with the stick, the bat, the bat, the aluminum bat.

31:41.838 --> 31:41.998
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

31:42.468 --> 31:57.323
[SPEAKER_01]: If it now I don't want to go again, I don't want me to need to go too gory, but if you had that cattle prod, there was water, if they could have gimmicked it that he stabbed him in the leg a couple of times before he put the scorpion on then I'm like, okay, like that makes sense.

31:58.325 --> 32:00.831
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought you should have choked him out with the flag.

32:01.823 --> 32:03.726
[SPEAKER_00]: like maybe even hung them from the rope or something.

32:03.946 --> 32:05.869
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, I bet you St. Louis didn't allow that either.

32:06.229 --> 32:06.569
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

32:06.589 --> 32:12.017
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, like that would have been a poetic finish, you know, doing something with the flag.

32:13.259 --> 32:21.330
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, even if he would have put the scorpion deathlock on on on top of the flag, like I don't think they did that, but there's so much damn water in that, right?

32:21.650 --> 32:23.553
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think the flag or washed away or something.

32:24.394 --> 32:31.223
[SPEAKER_00]: But, yeah, I, yeah, it didn't make sense.

32:31.203 --> 32:32.827
[SPEAKER_00]: Mox thinks a lot about his matches.

32:32.847 --> 32:38.000
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you ask me, there's probably is a logical reason, but the announcer's needs tell that story.

32:38.702 --> 32:45.398
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the other thing is leaning into where you think the story is going and you could bring Gabe kid in and you could

32:45.766 --> 32:47.288
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, you could he's dead.

32:48.330 --> 32:52.276
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he is currently have to revive him that they bring him back like zombie sting.

32:53.117 --> 32:53.217
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

32:53.237 --> 33:05.536
[SPEAKER_01]: And it like so if that, you know, they could do the brown break or Seth Rollins thing that they're doing right now on WWE, they could do that with Moxley and Gabe kid or a version of that would set up what you're saying.

33:05.616 --> 33:09.782
[SPEAKER_01]: But we, I would have liked to see.

33:10.319 --> 33:28.210
[SPEAKER_01]: what the death writers were doing while mox was tapping out because why were they not there they were just that did they're just so scared of staying even though he well no like some of them got beat up uh... one batch shot yeah there was one i think there was somebody that was actually like nothing happened to them i think might be a talk

33:28.662 --> 33:40.739
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, everyone was kind of cleared out, but if you look at, if the camera goes to Pock and Pock's like ready to jump in and he's like, nah, Mox got's that Mox has this.

33:41.019 --> 33:45.425
[SPEAKER_00]: He maybe Marine is like their superpower and it's interesting to occur away.

33:45.465 --> 33:49.871
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like they were all just mere mortals and they couldn't do anything.

33:49.892 --> 33:52.615
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like Wonder Woman's, uh, last two.

33:53.296 --> 33:58.163
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it, but this is the part

33:58.480 --> 34:07.514
[SPEAKER_01]: Tony leaves way too much open to interpretation in which is what the what the AEW fans will run with because they They will fill the gaps.

34:07.615 --> 34:12.442
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know, you know if they were they were already making excuses You know for Mark for love.

34:12.462 --> 34:14.005
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you didn't need to hear mox quit.

34:14.025 --> 34:19.053
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no Yeah, no, because he did the same thing when he quit with hangman.

34:19.093 --> 34:24.842
[SPEAKER_00]: He tapped right away and that was disappointing to I was

34:24.822 --> 34:29.047
[SPEAKER_00]: stuff, so not a notch is that is because we thought it was a last man standing.

34:29.227 --> 34:29.627
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

34:29.647 --> 34:31.309
[SPEAKER_00]: So we didn't realize anybody could tap.

34:31.769 --> 34:32.170
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

34:32.190 --> 34:33.151
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we had no idea.

34:33.631 --> 34:39.878
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand the people watching new because the commentators told them, but us in the building, Texas death.

34:40.098 --> 34:41.600
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was last man standing.

34:41.660 --> 34:45.865
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is, there is a thing with Moxley and him losing matches, though.

34:45.885 --> 34:49.108
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you remember when he lost to mjf.

34:49.257 --> 34:53.302
[SPEAKER_01]: it was kind of disappointing in the same way where you're like, that's it.

34:53.602 --> 34:55.625
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we're, that's the finish.

34:56.125 --> 34:57.467
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't know what that means.

34:57.487 --> 35:02.673
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that's purposeful or not, but is it, is it him sabotaging the people he's putting over?

35:02.753 --> 35:03.574
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.

35:03.795 --> 35:05.337
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't seem like moxley.

35:05.797 --> 35:08.300
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe it's a character choice that he's making.

35:08.881 --> 35:13.547
[SPEAKER_01]: Like many of these trying to present coward, but he's all right.

35:13.707 --> 35:18.893
[SPEAKER_01]: So tough at the same time that we don't see coward.

35:19.615 --> 35:21.418
[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, this is probably part of it.

35:23.000 --> 35:27.507
[SPEAKER_00]: He put everything he had into finishing Darby and he couldn't do it.

35:28.088 --> 35:31.513
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when Darby finally came back, he was done.

35:31.833 --> 35:34.077
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he was, I can't do anything more to this guy.

35:34.097 --> 35:34.818
[SPEAKER_00]: I might as well just quit.

35:35.559 --> 35:38.243
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if that might have been part of it in the story.

35:38.583 --> 35:42.028
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the have now, I sound like the WFN.

35:42.549 --> 35:48.458
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it makes sense to me, you know, that that thing, if they explain it that way on Wednesday.

35:48.995 --> 35:50.156
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, more power to him.

35:50.276 --> 35:50.917
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm fine with it.

35:51.337 --> 35:53.259
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we should see Moxley for a long time.

35:53.799 --> 35:56.682
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't I think we will, but I don't like because it's hearts broken.

35:57.082 --> 35:58.244
[SPEAKER_00]: He's saying.

35:58.284 --> 36:00.386
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, just he was surely was an injured.

36:01.426 --> 36:01.707
[SPEAKER_00]: True.

36:02.167 --> 36:02.427
[SPEAKER_00]: True.

36:02.447 --> 36:07.172
[SPEAKER_00]: You have, but maybe, yeah, maybe his his punk, our his punk card got pulled.

36:07.372 --> 36:08.473
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.

36:08.673 --> 36:15.740
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I didn't mean that as a CM Punk joke, but no, you meant it as a big show and the undertaker and like 2000 WWE.

36:16.801 --> 36:17.141
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

36:17.421 --> 36:17.742
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

36:17.802 --> 36:18.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

36:19.049 --> 36:30.987
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, I love that actually and when Undertaker came back and yeah, and then, uh, yeah, through it, he's like, that's your punk card and big show got all met.

36:31.568 --> 36:31.788
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

36:31.808 --> 36:32.849
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, last one here.

36:32.869 --> 36:35.854
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we're going to, we'll, we'll lean towards WWE.

36:35.934 --> 36:36.795
[SPEAKER_01]: I was at SmackDown.

36:37.456 --> 36:39.319
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, fun live show.

36:39.539 --> 36:42.564
[SPEAKER_01]: Was the best live show that I've ever been to or anything.

36:42.684 --> 36:44.186
[SPEAKER_01]: Crowd was decently hot.

36:44.687 --> 36:46.710
[SPEAKER_01]: I was kind of looking to see if they were any,

36:46.690 --> 36:49.254
[SPEAKER_01]: Clues that WWE might be slowing down.

36:49.274 --> 36:54.583
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, they did not draw as much as the last time we're all was there, but that was the second Netflix show.

36:55.625 --> 36:57.287
[SPEAKER_01]: And the crowd, I thought the crowd was hot.

36:57.307 --> 37:03.077
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the kids in the crowd is amazing to see these little kids who are on fire for stuff.

37:04.018 --> 37:10.048
[SPEAKER_01]: And just buying up the merch and wearing the shirts and Charlotte and Alexa came out and there were these.

37:10.518 --> 37:12.925
[SPEAKER_01]: two little girls in front of us and they were into it.

37:12.985 --> 37:14.610
[SPEAKER_01]: They all also in Cody came out.

37:14.650 --> 37:16.455
[SPEAKER_01]: They were saying how much they loved Cody.

37:17.097 --> 37:18.962
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's so fun when you can see that in the crowd.

37:19.945 --> 37:23.194
[SPEAKER_01]: But one Ilya Draganov made a return.

37:23.663 --> 37:32.558
[SPEAKER_01]: And they teased that they kind of threw you a little bit off the cent of who's even though I'm sure Sean Ross sat probably had it the early.

37:32.618 --> 37:35.523
[SPEAKER_01]: That did apparently and I'm so glad I didn't see it either.

37:35.943 --> 37:46.561
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so they had the miss come out to accept the open challenge and then just like it happened to Carmelo Carmelo attacks miss takes miss out then dragon off comes out.

37:46.721 --> 37:49.165
[SPEAKER_01]: Him and Sammy have a really really good

37:49.145 --> 37:49.886
[SPEAKER_01]: TV match.

37:50.446 --> 37:51.447
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't perfect.

37:51.487 --> 38:03.459
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't know if you saw the bump going into the commercial where they were doing that DDT to the apron and like he got caught in the ropes and so yeah, yeah, and then they replayed it and I was like, oh my gosh, I saw this thing live.

38:03.519 --> 38:04.500
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you replay it?

38:04.540 --> 38:05.841
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't even come close.

38:06.582 --> 38:15.270
[SPEAKER_01]: But the one thing I wanted to say about this, because as you know, one of my

38:15.824 --> 38:28.377
[SPEAKER_01]: pet peeves about big, big show per rustling, not the big show, but paper views and important shows is that sometimes the surprises can be very disappointing.

38:28.397 --> 38:33.102
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the Mercedes match, the minus share of how a surprise was very disappointing.

38:33.522 --> 38:35.824
[SPEAKER_01]: Like for TV, I think that had been fine.

38:36.325 --> 38:41.410
[SPEAKER_01]: But for a paper view, you need to come a little bit stronger with your surprises.

38:41.609 --> 38:55.732
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Ilya dragon of surprise was like a paper view type of surprise because not only did it allow someone like him to get that roar of the crowd who's genuinely surprised and excited to see him back, but then he won.

38:55.752 --> 39:00.760
[SPEAKER_01]: And so then then there's momentum for him after that win.

39:00.800 --> 39:08.072
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I didn't like the post match stuff because I hate anything having to do with the riots right now and

39:08.052 --> 39:09.254
[SPEAKER_01]: the MFTs.

39:09.334 --> 39:18.166
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the MFTs, but that just feels like Mid-Card City coming to your town, Mid-Card City of the MFTs against the White family.

39:18.606 --> 39:27.278
[SPEAKER_01]: But from Bell to Bell and bringing him in, and then Sammy finally losing and wondering, where does Sammy go from here?

39:27.298 --> 39:35.950
[SPEAKER_01]: That was just about the best two segment piece of television business that I've seen in a little while.

39:36.402 --> 39:46.241
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I mean, certainly the best SmackDown match since that TLC match they had on the week after WrestleMania.

39:46.762 --> 39:53.716
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, maybe even better, like depending on your, you know, your preference, if people say that was better, I'm not going to argue with them.

39:53.736 --> 39:55.660
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I gave them both the same rating.

39:55.640 --> 40:03.185
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious when you, when you guys were in the building, and Miss came out, like, what was sure reaction?

40:03.647 --> 40:05.754
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, where did you actually think that they're going to have a match?

40:05.774 --> 40:08.282
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I didn't.

40:08.549 --> 40:17.380
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't say I was paying attention too closely, okay, it was just WWE smack down to me, because I got you, you know, I was like, this is what they would do on.

40:17.920 --> 40:20.203
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was genuinely surprised.

40:20.223 --> 40:21.184
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, okay.

40:21.204 --> 40:25.609
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I saw Carmelo come out and attack him, I was like, fantastic.

40:25.710 --> 40:28.513
[SPEAKER_01]: Now they're going to bring somebody out who's actually going to mean something.

40:28.673 --> 40:32.818
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't, I didn't know it was dragging out, but yeah, that's the art of

40:33.119 --> 40:34.381
[SPEAKER_00]: of how you do that stuff.

40:34.401 --> 40:37.907
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the last time they did the same thing, it was Alistair Black.

40:38.127 --> 40:41.473
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like kind of what a rather seen Carmelo.

40:41.894 --> 40:44.638
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but they ended up having a really good match.

40:44.658 --> 40:45.961
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought it was great.

40:46.161 --> 40:50.368
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it turns out that there actually looks like they're doing something with Alistair.

40:50.348 --> 40:52.292
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, that life with them now.

40:52.693 --> 40:53.234
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

40:53.294 --> 40:55.479
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, we don't need carrying cross and scarlet.

40:55.499 --> 40:56.802
[SPEAKER_00]: We got a better version right here.

40:57.604 --> 41:00.349
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's like there's an exact same gimmick to.

41:01.051 --> 41:02.394
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but it's, uh, yeah.

41:02.434 --> 41:07.345
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I thought again, I thought it was, you know, one of the best TV matches a year.

41:07.846 --> 41:09.910
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the, uh,

41:10.109 --> 41:19.816
[SPEAKER_00]: But it kind of in a way is disappointing when it's over because I was really enjoying these Sami Zane open challenges for the US title.

41:20.378 --> 41:23.005
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm kind of hoping Elia Dragon have keeps that up.

41:23.255 --> 41:49.566
[SPEAKER_00]: because if you know that every week you turn into SmackDown you're going to see Ilia Dragon off have a bang or like that's the reason to watch SmackDown for me and for a lot of people I think and a lot of times I think SmackDown is a skippable show you know because it's on the weekend especially when it's before a paper view yep um you know I think a lot of people don't watch it or they kind of maybe watch it but they skip through it you know kind of look at what happened what happened

41:49.546 --> 41:52.108
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that that's destination television.

41:52.308 --> 41:55.872
[SPEAKER_00]: If you know you're getting this, Ilya Dragon off title defense every week.

41:55.892 --> 41:57.693
[SPEAKER_00]: So that could really help him out.

41:58.414 --> 42:05.020
[SPEAKER_00]: And my long term, and I'll say it's the same thing I had in mind for Sammy, like I would have this go for a few months.

42:05.861 --> 42:07.722
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how you debut over Sammy.

42:07.883 --> 42:14.128
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think him and Oberfemi would have an incredible match because I've seen him have matches with big guys before.

42:14.629 --> 42:19.553
[SPEAKER_01]: Although he's

42:20.377 --> 42:26.405
[SPEAKER_01]: If you, if you can even do some foreshadowing, I don't know what Oberthem is going to do next in NXT.

42:26.685 --> 42:30.450
[SPEAKER_01]: If he is still going to do something, he hasn't been on NXT since he lost the belt.

42:30.791 --> 42:41.004
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's say that he is, you could have drag enough show up on that show and like fist bump him would be like dude, you're doing a great job or whatever.

42:41.164 --> 42:44.809
[SPEAKER_01]: And then three weeks later, then he shows up as a surprise.

42:45.009 --> 42:49.675
[SPEAKER_01]: There's, yeah, I like it when they can chain link things on on the

42:49.655 --> 42:54.882
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's like, there's an Ilya Gunther match that's, you know, like, those two are magic together.

42:54.962 --> 43:02.212
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, that can happen, wait on the road take Tyler bait out of the Americana man and give let him wrestle in some of these matches.

43:02.472 --> 43:03.834
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

43:03.854 --> 43:06.998
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he's, yeah, that those two.

43:07.018 --> 43:13.266
[SPEAKER_00]: And then with Sammy, like now that he's lost the belt, there's like two main event slots that just kind of opened up.

43:13.634 --> 43:17.619
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, between Jacob fat two, although I guess maybe Jacob's not going to be out that long now.

43:17.659 --> 43:22.406
[SPEAKER_01]: We can actually tell you what I think the Jacob fat two is thing is what's that.

43:22.526 --> 43:30.237
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to imagine that that that brother's been an independent wrestler for a long time.

43:32.620 --> 43:34.623
[SPEAKER_01]: He probably hasn't been to the dentist in like 10 years.

43:36.025 --> 43:41.532
[SPEAKER_01]: So you see this happening in real life, which is someone who finally gets their career going

43:42.372 --> 43:48.722
[SPEAKER_01]: Then it's like they get all the work done that they need on their teeth because they want their smile, you know, you don't want the smile nice.

43:48.862 --> 43:55.613
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I imagine he's just getting a ton of stuff done and you don't want him taken possible.

43:56.274 --> 43:58.959
[SPEAKER_00]: Punch a stomach sense and that that would make it.

43:58.979 --> 44:01.262
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope he comes back with a girl at least.

44:01.843 --> 44:03.226
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, the character needs a girl.

44:04.508 --> 44:05.950
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'll tell you.

44:06.892 --> 44:20.800
[SPEAKER_01]: We, you know, you mode, I think I don't know that a lot of people knew that he wasn't going to wrestle or at least the way that WWE did it, it kind of trick the fans into thinking like, oh, the internet was wrong this time kind of thing.

44:21.691 --> 44:33.691
[SPEAKER_01]: And when he did he so he does that interview with Cody, which, you know, can you imagine, you know, cook, cook out Cody trying to decipher what Jacob Fattu is explaining in this situation.

44:33.711 --> 44:42.585
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, but then you get the Cody fist bump, which is all you need and then, you know, so the crowds in it because he's he's nothing but 100% Bay Area.

44:43.173 --> 44:45.237
[SPEAKER_01]: even those from Sacramento, but still North Cal.

44:45.919 --> 44:50.047
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they announced the match and people are like, Oh, maybe he is here.

44:50.128 --> 44:50.969
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you see him.

44:51.029 --> 44:56.341
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, they kind of they kind of give it give you a little bit of something with his teeth being plastered all over the end.

44:56.361 --> 44:57.804
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm watching the clock too.

44:57.824 --> 44:58.465
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like,

44:58.900 --> 45:05.008
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you know, there's like 12 minutes left in the show because I'm watching on Netflix and I was watching late.

45:05.108 --> 45:09.213
[SPEAKER_00]: So I could see and okay, there's no way we're getting to make events.

45:09.233 --> 45:14.099
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, I mean, and then they still have to set up whatever was going to replace fat too when they took them out.

45:14.119 --> 45:16.382
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was like, okay, you know, like this, but I guess it didn't sound like the fans were disappointed.

45:16.402 --> 45:24.773
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they were all you got to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get to go to get

45:24.753 --> 45:37.982
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, the way they did that, I guess, was good and you already got to see that idioliamat, so anything that came after that was like gravy, you know, you watch made of it too, I saw I did I saw the one match, though.

45:38.142 --> 45:44.095
[SPEAKER_00]: So what what was it because I asked you and I don't know if you saw my comment, but it was Montez.

45:44.075 --> 45:45.797
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, it's Kip Wilson.

45:46.137 --> 45:46.578
[SPEAKER_00]: Kip Wilson.

45:46.618 --> 45:47.038
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

45:47.058 --> 45:47.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

45:47.399 --> 45:48.420
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought the one was kit.

45:48.560 --> 45:48.780
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

45:48.940 --> 45:49.141
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

45:49.221 --> 45:54.166
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I wasn't sure I couldn't tell who I thought it was co-fear Montez.

45:54.206 --> 45:59.472
[SPEAKER_00]: So I couldn't tell because you're kind of far away and his half his face was was hidden.

45:59.552 --> 46:00.794
[SPEAKER_00]: But that sounds like fun.

46:01.535 --> 46:02.496
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally fun.

46:02.676 --> 46:02.916
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.

46:02.936 --> 46:03.136
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

46:03.277 --> 46:04.057
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

46:04.358 --> 46:04.998
[SPEAKER_00]: Montez went over.

46:05.039 --> 46:05.619
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

46:05.980 --> 46:06.961
[SPEAKER_00]: You haven't over frogs.

46:07.021 --> 46:08.422
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, well, Mary, I mentioned you.

46:08.462 --> 46:13.508
[SPEAKER_00]: The last one I saw was Angela Dawkins and Can't remember who was Nathan Fraser maybe.

46:13.859 --> 46:23.532
[SPEAKER_01]: So the dark match after the TV show ended was Natalia against Ivy Nile, but we bailed out at that point.

46:23.832 --> 46:25.274
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't kind of imagine.

46:25.574 --> 46:28.118
[SPEAKER_00]: Nah, Ivy looks weird now with the long hair.

46:28.158 --> 46:29.520
[SPEAKER_00]: Long hair, she looked different.

46:30.041 --> 46:32.584
[SPEAKER_00]: And she wasn't like the booty shorts, too.

46:33.826 --> 46:34.467
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's weird.

46:34.787 --> 46:36.389
[SPEAKER_00]: Softening the image up a little bit.

46:36.409 --> 46:42.618
[SPEAKER_00]: A little bit, yeah, yeah, but I mean, it's too bad we don't get to see her wrestle much, but she's corning the creeds on main event.

46:43.259 --> 46:45.101
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's hang on this subject.

46:45.141 --> 46:46.323
[SPEAKER_01]: I have two questions for you.

46:46.703 --> 46:46.924
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

46:47.485 --> 46:50.008
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll get out of here.

46:50.377 --> 46:55.367
[SPEAKER_01]: you have this for whatever happens whenever Jacob comes back.

46:55.387 --> 46:55.908
[SPEAKER_01]: Who done it?

46:58.152 --> 46:58.593
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.

46:59.675 --> 47:03.803
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think we're supposed to think it's it's true.

47:04.464 --> 47:05.005
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.

47:05.025 --> 47:08.872
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, no, I don't think we're supposed to think it's true because they said it's true.

47:08.932 --> 47:11.878
[SPEAKER_00]: So whenever the first person, they say it's never that person.

47:11.977 --> 47:16.886
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it could be solo, but they kind of buried the hatchet there.

47:17.648 --> 47:26.605
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a scene, um, and you may not have seen this because you're in the building, but there, when they did that Cody Jacob Fatto interview segment, there was a figure in the background.

47:27.246 --> 47:27.386
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

47:27.406 --> 47:28.468
[SPEAKER_00]: Way in the background.

47:28.789 --> 47:30.091
[SPEAKER_00]: Did anyone figure out who that was?

47:30.692 --> 47:32.736
[SPEAKER_00]: No, and I thought it was awesome theory.

47:33.863 --> 47:39.934
[SPEAKER_00]: And and and our friend Joe thought it thought it was Drew or Yeah, I think he said thought it was Drew.

47:40.556 --> 47:51.556
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, so far away you couldn't tell But I thought he looked slimmer than Drew, you know, from the look I saw because I also thought it kind of like the outline look like Ludwig Kaiser, but that would make no sense.

47:52.779 --> 47:54.522
[SPEAKER_00]: So it could be awesome theory

47:54.957 --> 48:07.043
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because obviously they have plans for Austin, but they probably change those plans based on what was happening with Seth, so maybe they're going to move them over here, like, I don't know, I don't know who else may, could be Orton.

48:09.428 --> 48:12.595
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like I could see Orton doing that and a punt.

48:12.963 --> 48:15.967
[SPEAKER_00]: with that, that they've been teased and that could kick out Jacob fat to his teeth.

48:16.007 --> 48:17.709
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that could take out his teeth.

48:18.089 --> 48:18.770
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

48:18.790 --> 48:23.616
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we have Sammy without that title.

48:25.237 --> 48:29.162
[SPEAKER_01]: So many people want to see his ascension to the big belt.

48:31.585 --> 48:34.448
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if we, I don't know if we're going to get it because it's almost like that.

48:34.568 --> 48:37.292
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just going to, they can just tease it forever and it always work.

48:38.433 --> 48:39.274
[SPEAKER_01]: So

48:39.811 --> 48:41.914
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, where do you go next with Sammy?

48:42.255 --> 48:50.607
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, I mean, we talked about this on the fight game podcast that we did last week, you know, what, what's next, what, you know, what are they going to do with the world title?

48:51.368 --> 48:57.938
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, by the time people listen to this draws on right now, so we may have a little bit of a hint, but,

48:58.475 --> 49:04.767
[SPEAKER_00]: You could do some sort of a tournament for the world title or for a world title shot and Sammy could be in it.

49:05.388 --> 49:07.852
[SPEAKER_00]: I know he's on the different brand, but they move people all the time.

49:08.393 --> 49:14.104
[SPEAKER_00]: And they need a top baby face on raw.

49:14.911 --> 49:21.502
[SPEAKER_00]: So you could do that, and then maybe you do Sammy and Sam Punk for a title like that be cool.

49:21.943 --> 49:23.686
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we've ever saw that.

49:23.706 --> 49:26.631
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we saw that on Raw once earlier this year.

49:26.671 --> 49:29.236
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was really good match if I remember right.

49:29.717 --> 49:34.084
[SPEAKER_00]: It was around the time when Punk was feeding with Seth and Sammy was

49:34.064 --> 49:35.666
[SPEAKER_00]: or meet his last year.

49:35.946 --> 49:40.311
[SPEAKER_00]: I do remember a main event of raw that was Sami Zayn in CM Punk, and it was a really good match.

49:40.371 --> 49:54.345
[SPEAKER_00]: So you could do that, and I'm sure people would buy into the idea of Sami trying to win a world title or possibly even winning it, and then, you know, and then like, that's a guy that brawn breaker could easily just like destroy for the title.

49:54.365 --> 49:56.327
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you did it once already with the IC titles.

49:56.388 --> 50:01.573
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think if they build Sami Zayn up properly,

50:03.157 --> 50:04.422
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it'll mean something.

50:04.723 --> 50:11.186
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't trust Triple H to see him in that way.

50:12.049 --> 50:14.618
[SPEAKER_01]: It'd be like Vince with Ray probably.

50:14.834 --> 50:40.335
[SPEAKER_01]: Not even not even necessarily Ray, because Sammy's actually a decent size guy or Jesse and it's not like Sammy's fan base is like sabotaging the shows, you know, because you know, which is part of the issue with some of those other guys is, you know, they almost got in trouble because the fan base was behind them so much right now the product is hot, so you fan base is pretty much on fire for everything.

50:40.957 --> 50:44.694
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but there is like I told Dave on Wrestling Observer Radio.

50:44.714 --> 50:45.999
[SPEAKER_01]: You haven't heard Friday show yet.

50:46.180 --> 50:46.461
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you?

50:46.602 --> 50:46.803
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you?

50:46.823 --> 50:46.984
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

50:47.164 --> 50:48.048
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

50:48.068 --> 50:48.169
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

50:48.189 --> 50:50.258
[SPEAKER_01]: So I told him that

50:50.542 --> 51:00.977
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the lessons that he's always mentioned is when you are hot, that is when you should build up your next guys because you can do anything and it's going to work like so it doesn't really matter.

51:01.418 --> 51:04.723
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just when you're not and then you try to build up people.

51:04.763 --> 51:11.092
[SPEAKER_01]: The fans are already upset at the product and then they kind of piss on everything no matter what happens.

51:11.112 --> 51:15.098
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you did want to get Sammy ready for the next level,

51:15.078 --> 51:26.910
[SPEAKER_01]: this would be the time to do it, you know, to start that story, whatever wherever the end game is, but you can start it now and, you know, the payoff will be tremendous.

51:27.548 --> 51:38.522
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if your original plan was Seth Rollins holding the belt to WrestleMania, you can easily have Sammy stepping and beat that guy right now and then you're servicing two masters.

51:38.562 --> 51:40.264
[SPEAKER_00]: You can still do whatever you want to do.

51:40.284 --> 51:47.593
[SPEAKER_00]: You can set up a big match for Sammy, but you can also finally get in that world title and then he's got that cred for the rest of his career that he's a former champion.

51:47.873 --> 51:50.296
[SPEAKER_00]: You give the fans that have been waiting for this for years.

51:50.917 --> 51:53.180
[SPEAKER_00]: You give him that moment of him winning the world title.

51:53.240 --> 51:54.822
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think

51:55.291 --> 51:59.338
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it'd be dumb not to do it, but, you know, they may have other plans.

51:59.418 --> 52:00.680
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

52:00.700 --> 52:06.189
[SPEAKER_01]: The way I would do it is I would do it, like how they did Jay last year.

52:06.910 --> 52:07.071
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

52:07.091 --> 52:07.531
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

52:07.551 --> 52:08.593
[SPEAKER_01]: When the winner of the rumble.

52:08.774 --> 52:09.094
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

52:09.395 --> 52:14.844
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you just have the anticipation of something that you've been waiting to see for a long time.

52:15.405 --> 52:17.468
[SPEAKER_01]: And because you have two titles,

52:17.802 --> 52:37.507
[SPEAKER_01]: Sammy doesn't have to necessarily be the the Tippy Tippy to be main event, you know, that will be the Cody belt or whatever, but it is still important and you're going to get that great moment at WrestleMania and Matt will be better because Sammy is a better wrestler than Jay Fernando had an interesting idea for who to go to Jacob.

52:37.547 --> 52:46.999
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he said Cody.

52:47.654 --> 52:48.075
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

52:48.095 --> 52:48.695
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

52:48.715 --> 52:49.656
[SPEAKER_00]: He was very mad.

52:49.717 --> 52:50.297
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

52:50.517 --> 52:52.039
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost more mad than.

52:52.079 --> 52:54.703
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get it right.

52:54.983 --> 52:56.645
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

52:56.665 --> 52:57.346
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

52:57.366 --> 52:58.828
[SPEAKER_00]: He got he ducked for test too much.

52:59.248 --> 52:59.869
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

52:59.889 --> 53:00.209
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

53:00.229 --> 53:00.510
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

53:00.950 --> 53:02.532
[SPEAKER_00]: I would I would mark up for that.

53:02.572 --> 53:03.533
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a big Cody guy.

53:03.553 --> 53:10.742
[SPEAKER_01]: So then then then then the rock is going to be like, see, I told you, yeah, told you, told you brother.

53:11.245 --> 53:11.946
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

53:12.506 --> 53:16.811
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for checking us out on this special live stream edition.

53:16.831 --> 53:22.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what we're going to tape most of these and not go live, but we have an opportunity to do so weeks two weeks from now.

53:22.797 --> 53:25.881
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be away, but we'll figure something out.

53:25.901 --> 53:26.922
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to be able to record.

53:26.942 --> 53:28.043
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm going to bring my equipment.

53:28.083 --> 53:30.826
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and if not, nobody.

53:30.846 --> 53:34.170
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no, there's no problem going dark for a week, but okay.

53:34.750 --> 53:39.936
[SPEAKER_01]: So for Paul, I am double G. See you when we see you piece out.