Dave Meltzer Interview: Hiroshi Tanahashi’s Legacy & Final NJPW Run | Speaking of Strong Style

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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Speaker Strongstown.

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[SPEAKER_00]: My name is Jeremy Findstone, and I'm here with Dave Melkzer of the Wrestling Observer newsletter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Stephen Conway will be joining us later, but Dave, you are here to join us today to talk about the history and career of one Hiroshi Tanahashi.

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[SPEAKER_00]: How are you doing today?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing great.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing great.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just working on the issue and everything.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There's never a dull moment in the wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to thank you so much.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is the week of Christmas and you are taking time out of, what's already a busy schedule to talk about Hiroshi Tanahashi, you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to have his final match at Wrestling Team 20 at the Tokyo Dome, and he has just had his second final match at Kork and Hall, which was frankly a pretty emotional affair for anyone that watched that show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Jose Fujita, what were your thoughts about watching Hiroshi Tanahashi's final match, just normal final match?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What did that feel like to you?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the last match at Corquant Hall, yeah, I mean, it's something, I mean, it was, it really, it really did hit me, I mean, I, you know, I've been watching this thing for the whole year, the countdown, you know, final match in the United States, final match in UK.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But this one.

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[SPEAKER_03]: really, you know, this one was bigger than, you know, final match and good final match and Nagoya, whatever.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?

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[SPEAKER_03]: This was different.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I guess probably just have seen so much cork and hauls kind of the home base building, I guess.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and he debuted there in 99, so it's 26 years later.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it's um,

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was something to see, but yeah, really, really when you look back, it's career is really one of the more monumental careers in wrestling history, and his importance is, it's funny because I think it is actually greatly underplayed before I thought it really wasn't, but as time goes on,

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[SPEAKER_03]: I really see everyone knows that New Japan was on rough shape and starting, I don't know, 20, 11-ish when he was the top guy at rebuilt and got to a certain level and then got bigger and bigger with Ocotta coming in and then the Omega and all that, but it's now that we're in this situation that we're in.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, just coming up with like the scene in the Santo retirement, it's like really big picture pro wrestling scene it was the biggest star of the three, but Tana has she was the most important by far, you know, I'm and there's not even an argument there, you know, WWE being sex and place it is wither without scene and you can't say that about New Japan, you can't say that about Japanese wrestling in general and you can't even say that about American wrestling in general, you know, if there was no Tana has she

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[SPEAKER_00]: uh thanks um Dave Steven has joined us for the show he uh he was uh delayed by work in real life commitments but he is here with us now so Dave Steven you two have known met in the past but we are here to go on that we were just talking about uh

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[SPEAKER_00]: The core can show that happened at the other day and how what Dave's thoughts were about watching that show and the impact and just you know, get, get and go on on this show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where around on that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Stephen, how are you doing?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be glad to be here and thank Dave for joining us.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Dave, I kind of primed you this for in the beginning, but your first mention of Hiroshitana Hashi in the Wrestling Observer Newsletter was the October 18th, 1999 newsletter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the headlines for this were Gorilla Momsun passes away.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He draws paralyzed, and the heroes of wrestling atrocity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And in your notes, you had Shinyamakbe, the future tokiyamakbe, beating Hiroshi Tanahashi, and Wataro Innoi, beating Ketsuri Shibada at Corkin Hall to an attendance of 1,263.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing to think about those guys all coming together at the same time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, Machabe and Tana Hashie linked very early in their young line careers and also were key in getting that under 30 belt they had for a little while over.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They kind of battled over that for quite a bit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So throughout the years, Machabe and Tana Hashie were pretty well linked in that time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you remember all the way back then.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Shabbada, Makabe, Tana Hashi, were Tana Hashi, particularly stand out to you or was a very early I mean or was it, you know, there was a batch of young lions and he was amongst them or did he make himself known pretty early as a future star?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I just remember the first time I saw him, I thought he was going to be a future star.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I also thought that, you know, the first push that I remember for, for time, how she was the tag team in Kansas, Suzuki, and it was all about Kansas, Suzuki, you know, the idea of they had this,

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I, you know, they had a good-sized guy coming from, I believe it was Rugby, where he was a legitimate star.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And they saw him as a guy who could be the top guy in the company, you know, for those reasons.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember, you know, when Suzuki and Tanaashi were team, it was so obvious to me that Tanaashi was the star, but Suzuki was the one presented as the star.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I even brought this up to people and it's like, this guy's a star and it's like, to small, to short, great worker, you know, always great worker, you know.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And as time went on, great worker became far more important in the wrestling business than to short, to small, you know, like, um, and nobody speaks of him as to short to small now at all, you know, because standards have changed, you know.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And, but that's what it was on day one.

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[SPEAKER_03]: even even when he went to Noah and Jamie Russell, I think it was a chemical Boschie maybe, a single smash.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's the same thing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's like great worker, but yeah, it's yeah, it's like great worker, but you know, he's the guy who's, you know, not going to be the top guy in the company, but he's going to be a star.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like I always thought, you know,

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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I can't say.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I thought he was going to be the top guy in the company though.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's not that wouldn't be fair to say.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't thinking that at all.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But I was thinking he's really, really good.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And he got chances really early.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And he always hit on those chances.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I remember when, um,

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[SPEAKER_03]: He had a match with Bob's route and then Bob's route and like raved about him and you know things like that where he would be in there and he would put over celebrities or whatever and because he could be trusted to do that you know do that well and then eventually you know they kind of figured I guess the way people reacted to him you know I mean it's funny because his career the real turning point of his career was was what his girlfriend stabbed him and became mainstream news and

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[SPEAKER_03]: From there, when he came back, he had so much of a following that they started to go with him and then they went with him and went with them and he became the best guy, you know, maybe in the whole world.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, New Japan started coming back.

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[SPEAKER_01]: it's such a strange situation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he had that this fight with us with his girlfriend.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She ends up stabbing him through the whole thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a bit of a thing where once he came back, the crowd was just like, well, we almost lost this guy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, crap.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he was more over than he was before.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was very bizarre.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the big thing is just, he's grown.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was a significant celebrity.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think she was a mysterious person, but she was a

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it wasn't like some girlfriend stabbed preliminary progress, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was like famous woman stabs, you know, boyfriend breaking up, who happens to be a pro wrestler, and so all of a sudden he becomes kind of for that period, a little bit of a name that, oh, oh, the boyfriend of whatever, whoever, whatever, I don't forget her name, but the boyfriend of whatever who gets stabbed.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so it made

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[SPEAKER_03]: you know he was in the news and that it's funny how that became like the turning point because from that point on that's when he became like a player but he still had to you know i mean that that that that significance would have lasted you know all of a month after his return if not two weeks if it was not for the fact that he was really good at what he did

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it was, but it was a strange situation with him, but yeah, and adequate.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned the, the Noah Ron, they also held he and, well, he did, well, I'm looking it up right here, but they won the GHC tag team titles while they were over there, too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So he, he always had a bit of a push going, but,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was interesting how that kind of triggered him as a star and then once they ran with him, they never really looked back and he became, well, we were talking about the standard bear of the the goodest of the good guys, meaning that just about every heel and every heel faction, sort of had to be made by Tana Hashie as time went on.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, he was the guy, you know, I mean, he was the guy, he was the guy who got the new people over, toppling him and you were somebody, you know, and any delivered, you know, I mean, when he was in his prime, I mean, I thought he was the best guy in the world when he was first, you know, I would say, when the thing like, you know, New Japan as far as the United States,

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think the interest level got really, really low for years.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, yeah, to be interested in G1 and the Tokyo dome was always news, but aside from that, it's just kind of like, you know, it wasn't that big.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then I think that it was a small thing, but when they finally started the pay-per-views, you know, the monthly pay-per-views in the United States.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's when I started like watching, and that's when he was the champion.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And the first one was actually that the famous match with

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was, it was so great because it was two guys in, you know, what I would consider the match of the year.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I believe that there was either one or zero near false in the entire match before it's on a how she finally won.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And the artistry to do that, I just thought was amazing and spoke for both of them.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And from there, I mean, I remember, you know, as bad as frickin' usual was, they did, you know, usual is turned on probably.

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[SPEAKER_03]: when they did Ujro's turn, you know, they did a big match for Tanahashi and Ujro for the for the championship.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, it was a great match.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Not even a good match.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was a great match.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And from there, it was kind of like, man, this guy can have a great match with anyone.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And there's very, very few people, you know, like almost none that you could say that with.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, even when even when he put over Okada in that championship match,

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was one of those things.

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[SPEAKER_03]: My reaction was kind of like, yeah, you know, like, because I mean, I knew what caught it was good.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Really good.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But I didn't know that he was going to be anywhere near what he ended up being nobody did.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But, but he was tall and he had the amazing dropkick.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So,

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[SPEAKER_03]: get all decide to go with Ocada at a very young age, like 23, 24 as champion.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And this is what Tana Hashi's like at his peak.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just going like, and I knew about this title change literally months before it happened.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I even wrote about it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And it was just like, you know, come on, I mean, Tana Hashi's the best in the world and Ocada's years away from this, but I knew they were gonna do it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then Ocada debuts the Tokyo dome does not even have a good match.

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[SPEAKER_03]: you know, and you're too hoshy, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're just.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then they do the match.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's all right.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He's winning the title and the match was phenomenal.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I wasn't surprised.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's like of course the match is phenomenal.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's Tanaashi.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But it really took O'Cotta and the night don't match to where I really believed in O'Cotta because it was like

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[SPEAKER_03]: you know, anyone could have a great match with Tanaashi.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He was that good at that period.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I mean, so that that's where I really like, it's like he was that good.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And he was a draw, and he brought the company back because he had the charisma.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he was a great mix, you know, because he was the wrestler bread heart was, but he had like much more natural charisma.

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[SPEAKER_03]: and he had real drawing power and, you know, it's just a great complete package.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he wasn't Hulk Hogan, charisma, but he was enough.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was enough to make the company back.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And to, you know, they were more of them.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like in the Inoki days, obviously, they were mainstream and they were gigantic.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But with a ton of hostages, it was more of like almost like an A, W thing where it's, there's an audience there that's a loyal audience, but it's not like you're a network TV or anything like that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And you kind of have to

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[SPEAKER_03]: having great matches month and month out and just creating excitement in the matches and making the championship mean something and all that and that's really where, you know, he excelled both as a champion and then even after he was always, you know, no matter what he did, if he was in a key match, it was, you know, until, you know, his knees were shot.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He was in a key match.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It always delivered.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He never had a bad match.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, well, until late in his career,

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we were talking about his working style not too long ago, Jeremy and I were and what I always thought was interesting about him in the ring.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned Hulk Hogan, you mentioned some of the others, this is where the Brad Hartca pair comes in.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't do a ton, there was some, there was some, not a ton of during the match trying to hype up the crowd.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't do a lot of that, come on everybody type of stuff, certainly none of the Hulk Hogan stuff with the wave in the air.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He's a sort of chilling in the world title matches because he had a treat to the world title matches like they were real and that was part of the key and he made it look so organic though the way he did it though was he would almost like he was firing himself up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He would go over the corner and smack the top rope like I got to get up to this top rope and hit this move and it would bring the crowd with him in a way that was very organic.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It looked like instead of the crowd being pulled along saying here I need you guys to

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[SPEAKER_01]: come up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He would do things that made it look like he was firing himself up and he was so naturally charismatic.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The crowd wanted to go with that and it just came off as more natural than some of the stuff we see now where everybody feels like they have to slap the map three times to try to get the crowd to clap and he just had that where he could bring him along and and it's that's something you can necessarily teach but it's something he had and pretty early

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[SPEAKER_03]: He had great face for professional wrestling, great facial expressions, great face.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Just the great, you know, he kinda had that rock star, rock idol look combined with the physique and the ability.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's a real, you know, like, some people have one of those three, most people have none, you know?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he had all three.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he made, I'm gonna get to talk.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he's the great talker.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, he could be the goody two shoes without looking lame doing it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, who in the world gets over the er guitar?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he does it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's the only guy that could do stuff like that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we see it now, too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think with way more and uminos with some of this, I will take New Japan and Haontai on my back and lead it into a new genre and the fan song by it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And but Tana Hashie had a way of doing that stuff where it didn't sound cheesy when he did it, but take those words and put them in anybody else's mouth and like,

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

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[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

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[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a, there's a timeline here of when you started rating his matches at a significant level in 2002, March 17th, with the first three and a half star match that you gave Hiroshi Taohashi versus Sasaki.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it wasn't until two years later that you gave him anything above a four and the first match that you gave him above a four was a 4.5 on November 3rd again, cocky again, but he had before then.

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[SPEAKER_00]: a four-star match against Kojikana Moto and a four-and-a-quarter match against Hiroshi Tenzon.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He then went on to have 33, four-and-three-quarter matches in the Wrestling Observer newsletter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He had 14 five-star matches starting with the first one against Norris Zuki at October 8, 2012.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then he had three five-plus matches.

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[SPEAKER_00]: May of 2018, five and a half stars.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He had two five and three quarter magic.

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[SPEAKER_00]: One versus Coda Abushi.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I believe the final because the G1.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That was maybe, if I'm going to say, I think that was my favorite time on how she match ever was the Coda Abushi match.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Some of it was due to the commentary, but when

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[SPEAKER_03]: Just his comeback, some things like that in that man.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that was an absolutely amazing match.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And obviously, the other was the Kenny Omega Tokyo again, which I thought was a really amazing match, watching it because of the, I mean, it's in the Tokyo Dom, and there's, you know, almost 40,000 people in the building pretty much sold out in the building that they hadn't sold out in decades.

18:02.330 --> 18:03.392
[SPEAKER_03]: And

18:03.372 --> 18:23.481
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, it was like this ideology thing and and what really put that match over the top for me is, you know, it's like Omega was, you know, I mean, Omega and Tonashi would talk about the superiority of their mentality of what pro wrestling is because Tonashi had a very specific mentality of pro wrestling didn't like the Shabata style.

18:23.542 --> 18:26.005
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't like the Omega, young buck style.

18:26.586 --> 18:32.755
[SPEAKER_03]: He had this mentality of what pro wrestling should be, um, you know, maybe maybe a little bit.

18:32.735 --> 18:46.069
[SPEAKER_03]: Fujianami ish, you know, because that was one of his heroes growing up, you know, where it's not a lot of garbage, and it's, you know, you tried to make everything, you slow it down for the audience, and that type of thing, and

18:46.960 --> 19:00.509
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, but when he did the high, the high flight flow to the floor through a table, it was like, I have to abandon my mentality to win this championship at that point was kind of an advanced age.

19:01.330 --> 19:04.918
[SPEAKER_03]: And people didn't know it was Omega's last match.

19:04.898 --> 19:11.008
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, which, you know, for a long time in New Japan, but it was, and then it was also a match he was in schedule to win.

19:11.048 --> 19:18.360
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but it was like the way that that the story of how that match played out, I thought was just just phenomenal.

19:19.001 --> 19:21.505
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was, well, that was January 2019, correct?

19:21.525 --> 19:22.186
[SPEAKER_01]: Wasn't that the one?

19:22.327 --> 19:23.228
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it was.

19:23.208 --> 19:29.093
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he had won the 2018 G1 and what was considered like that was your last gas.

19:29.173 --> 19:38.362
[SPEAKER_01]: It was Ricky Choshu in 96 like this guy went winning the last one and then, you know, he goes all the way to the dome and wins it and that's, and then that surprised a lot of people.

19:38.382 --> 19:41.965
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we were like, well, Kenny's, you know, there are other things going on with Kenny.

19:41.985 --> 19:43.566
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's funny now.

19:43.586 --> 19:45.208
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about that six years ago.

19:45.548 --> 19:53.215
[SPEAKER_01]: That was supposed to be the last

19:53.195 --> 20:16.485
[SPEAKER_01]: That's basically, yeah, it's been to a victory level and yeah, it's an interesting thing too and he was working his way into the the front office, although that took years, but again, always prominent and even when he had slid down a little bit like he would do world tagly and finish in the middle of the pack and he wasn't running in contention to win gee want he would be there until guy toward the end, but he would lose for a few years.

20:16.465 --> 20:19.851
[SPEAKER_03]: He was having some 4 and 5 years, you know, 4 and 5 record 8 points.

20:20.231 --> 20:40.245
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I thought, I thought, you know, and I, I get the mentality because you want a lot of the history of G1 is about Albany on the talent, but I thought, like, when he was doing going 4 and 5, he was still more over than almost everyone there, you know, and so I thought like he should be in contention and you know, tilt till the end and and all.

20:40.225 --> 20:41.667
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't like him going under 500.

20:41.987 --> 20:58.126
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that they prematurely did that because, you know, I, you know, I just thought that like he did, he obviously had his limitations, but the reality is until recent years, even with those limitations, he was so smart, his matches were as good as almost anyone.

20:58.206 --> 21:04.073
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I wouldn't say anyone, because there's been some, you know, every year there's these incredible G1 performance performers.

21:04.053 --> 21:09.161
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, it wasn't really until recent years that he wasn't one of those top guys in every G1.

21:10.543 --> 21:22.521
[SPEAKER_03]: But they had decided, you know, there was a point, you know, which had been the first Jerry 100 or 500 in G1 where it's like, he is not the top guy you're being told, you know, being him is still important.

21:23.122 --> 21:32.997
[SPEAKER_03]: It's still significant, you know, I think they had him lose one

21:32.977 --> 21:35.682
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very cringy now, very cringy.

21:35.783 --> 21:37.927
[SPEAKER_01]: But they didn't assemble their things to ligor, didn't they?

21:37.987 --> 21:42.035
[SPEAKER_01]: And super juniors, we had to endure some years for judicial ligor with bad records.

21:42.095 --> 21:46.083
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're just like, God, this I used to just jump up and down on my living room watching this, too.

21:46.104 --> 21:51.795
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, and but even then, that you mentioned though, the winds over Tana Hashie meant this year.

21:51.775 --> 21:56.907
[SPEAKER_01]: In 2025, he didn't win all of these matches that he had.

21:57.288 --> 21:59.494
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was significant when he would lose one still.

21:59.654 --> 22:04.265
[SPEAKER_01]: The win over time, how she is still a win over Hiroshi, freakin' time in Hiroshi, in New Japan.

22:04.285 --> 22:06.531
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I mean, that's what they did.

22:06.571 --> 22:09.919
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's, I mean, he was the guy to elevate the guys.

22:09.899 --> 22:17.948
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that was, that was, you know, that, that was essentially his role the last several years.

22:18.509 --> 22:21.252
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he wasn't going to win G1.

22:21.292 --> 22:21.853
[SPEAKER_03]: We knew it.

22:22.714 --> 22:29.802
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that, but he was enough to where, if you put him in a big match, there was the hope that he could pull this one off.

22:29.822 --> 22:32.785
[SPEAKER_03]: And occasionally, occasionally he did.

22:34.587 --> 22:41.060
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and just thoughts on this as as this career progressed and the various changes in the front office happened.

22:41.100 --> 22:52.984
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember without given anything away if it would when you started getting wind that maybe he was destined for a front office job that that's plenty of stars didn't do that.

22:53.133 --> 23:00.321
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's hard, but you knew it because he was just so him, he was so important, so much in the fabric of the company.

23:00.842 --> 23:05.367
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think, like, when he was named President, I know I was surprised.

23:06.429 --> 23:18.803
[SPEAKER_03]: I know that there were a lot of people very happy at the time, and you know, there was various different political things going on there that led to it, but as far as being like, you know, like,

23:18.783 --> 23:23.202
[SPEAKER_03]: when he wound down what he'd be a spokesperson for the company and a public face of the company.

23:24.046 --> 23:25.452
[SPEAKER_03]: I think...

23:26.157 --> 23:40.474
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know, maybe 2017, even back then, I think it was kind of like, he was just so important to the company that I just figured he would always be, you know, you don't say always be around because look, you know, food genami and chose you and all those guys weren't always around.

23:40.534 --> 23:45.520
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a time that comes and I never thought soccer Gucci wouldn't be part of the company in some form.

23:45.580 --> 23:54.190
[SPEAKER_03]: I never thought food genami wouldn't be part of the company in some form and probably with Tana Ashi, something similar, you know, the, I, but again, I

23:54.170 --> 24:03.582
[SPEAKER_03]: I think as a wrestler, I don't think he's gonna wrestle again because whenever you have these big retirements, the thing you're always thinking of.

24:03.602 --> 24:07.528
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a month and a half a year and a half, what's gonna happen with that one's gonna draw him back.

24:08.048 --> 24:16.920
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that this one, I think this one is it, especially because just, you know, I mean, he's physically shot.

24:17.153 --> 24:22.260
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to join the Jack Briscoe Guerrilla Monson list of the last ones actually the last one.

24:23.161 --> 24:24.423
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, really.

24:24.663 --> 24:25.685
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's a lot.

24:26.306 --> 24:30.031
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but yeah, and what he, he was born.

24:30.532 --> 24:33.456
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay, yeah, that's that's.

24:33.476 --> 24:36.179
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, again, I'm 100% on that.

24:37.021 --> 24:38.082
[SPEAKER_00]: For that matter.

24:38.298 --> 24:39.479
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's a different story.

24:39.499 --> 24:41.721
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I was saying.

24:41.741 --> 24:42.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.

24:42.262 --> 24:46.786
[SPEAKER_01]: They're plenty of guys who would, if they could, but maybe you might actually literally kill them.

24:48.227 --> 24:54.533
[SPEAKER_01]: But the thing with, and he went to a very prestigious university, Tana, how she did in Kyoto, that university is no joke.

24:55.153 --> 25:00.138
[SPEAKER_01]: If you look at some of the notable alumni, he's on the list, but so are higher ups and government.

25:00.418 --> 25:03.701
[SPEAKER_01]: The guy who had been at cup noodle, I wouldn't have gotten through college without that man.

25:04.301 --> 25:08.305
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, how the guy had been at cup noodle, he's more important than Tana, how she worldwide.

25:08.285 --> 25:27.458
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, yeah, just slightly, just slightly maybe there'll be about 12 ton of Hashim museums someday like there are a couple new little museums in Japan but not quite yet but point is smartman and a smartman to begin with and so the question though that I have here is

25:28.400 --> 25:30.622
[SPEAKER_01]: spend a little shaky with him as president right now.

25:30.682 --> 25:34.507
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, objectively, this is one of the worst business years they've had in quite a long time.

25:34.587 --> 25:42.776
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, subjectively, I don't hear a lot of praise for the booking, which is subjective, but it's been a very difficult year.

25:42.836 --> 25:47.761
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if he doesn't turn it around, his presidency could kind of be seen as a disaster.

25:47.821 --> 25:51.285
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's pressure on him, even though he's getting out of the ring.

25:51.265 --> 26:20.547
[SPEAKER_03]: very much so also because I think next year's going to be worse because I think this year yeah I think this year was propped up by him you know it's kind of like I felt um you know and you know kind of like WWE with scene this year it's like I don't know that the WWE booking was any good but the scene of retirement which was booked very badly was still the scene of retirement and it still was very successful in that sense but I don't know that you know

26:20.527 --> 26:31.127
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I don't think they're going to do as well, even though they're going to probably do some big retirement next year too, but it's like, I think it's sort of like propped up and I think that with with New Japan, it's like,

26:31.597 --> 26:37.264
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, night to, night to leaving is symbolically hurt, or caught a leaving, of course, hurt.

26:38.185 --> 26:40.708
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're just struggling for a face.

26:41.449 --> 26:48.217
[SPEAKER_03]: But the one thing was, at least you had Tanaashi, you had that guy who was a superstar and he's on every show or most shows.

26:48.437 --> 26:51.881
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, was the very focal point of the year.

26:51.941 --> 26:54.364
[SPEAKER_03]: Next year, I mean, it's like,

26:54.344 --> 26:57.912
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really, it really is, you know, to suit you and you, you're even more kind of show to eminoring those guys for the first time.

26:57.932 --> 27:09.096
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, oh, I don't know how she, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

27:09.295 --> 27:18.284
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Aaron Wolf, to me, was like the Hail Mary, you know what I mean of like, you know, 2026, you know, the him coming in.

27:18.884 --> 27:24.370
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, again, I hate saving bad about someone as an other first match, but my God, he's been an angle after angle.

27:24.790 --> 27:38.644
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like every time, it's just like, oh God, he's just, you know, it's, it's, it's a scary one because he's, you're going in with such a giant magnifying glass and it was already going to be tough.

27:38.624 --> 27:52.372
[SPEAKER_03]: But now, I mean, it's just like, oh my God, you know, I mean, it's like, think God is in with evil, but, you know, I mean, it's it's like, uh, what jima debuting against tiger jeet sing, which is the same kind of a thing.

27:52.432 --> 27:56.179
[SPEAKER_03]: But the difference is is that, you know, what jima was an adjunct.

27:56.600 --> 27:57.241
[SPEAKER_03]: He wasn't there.

27:57.301 --> 27:58.624
[SPEAKER_03]: The company was fine.

27:58.604 --> 28:10.466
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I mean, he wasn't there to save the company, he was just kind of an attraction that they hope would do something and really never did and I think that, you know, so far my gut on Aaron Wolf is that he's going to be the next erosion with Gina.

28:11.608 --> 28:16.798
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's spooky because he does seem a little dear in the headlights looks like he freezes a lot in there, which is kind of spooky.

28:17.139 --> 28:21.507
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I imagine that the evil match will be choreographed and short.

28:21.487 --> 28:24.230
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that would probably be their best plan right there.

28:24.310 --> 28:27.914
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, talking about it though, we mentioned all of his losses.

28:27.934 --> 28:31.358
[SPEAKER_01]: Time of Hashes, back to time of Hashes, all of his losses meant something.

28:31.438 --> 28:34.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Even when he was young, he was getting a push, he didn't lose that often.

28:34.262 --> 28:35.443
[SPEAKER_01]: When he did, it was for a reason.

28:36.044 --> 28:47.477
[SPEAKER_01]: At one of that, my big criticisms of the booking during this run is, both time of Hashes, president before, yeah, Umano, Uemura, Suji, over and over again, these guys fail.

28:47.457 --> 28:55.967
[SPEAKER_01]: fail and key moments and that's not the type of thing that the crowd wants somebody that's going to come through for them and they can live by careously through those victories.

28:56.508 --> 28:58.350
[SPEAKER_01]: And man, we talked about the G1.

28:58.510 --> 29:00.833
[SPEAKER_01]: Soji made the finals last year.

29:00.973 --> 29:02.936
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of my finals this year, a bit of a step backward.

29:04.137 --> 29:07.581
[SPEAKER_01]: The others didn't make the playoffs failed on the last day.

29:07.882 --> 29:09.904
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not the kind of

29:10.120 --> 29:12.908
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not what gets the guys over the way Tana has she got over.

29:12.948 --> 29:17.500
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if he had been 50, 50 books, you might not be having this talk right now.

29:17.520 --> 29:25.682
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that there's an axiom in the wrestling that every booker has right now for whatever reason and that is

29:25.662 --> 29:30.890
[SPEAKER_03]: The people will not accept you unless they see that you paid your dues to get to your spot.

29:31.310 --> 29:39.322
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that that means I think that that booking the only people who get through that booking are ones that are naturally super charismatic.

29:39.723 --> 29:44.791
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're not naturally super charismatic, I don't think you're going to get through that booking.

29:44.831 --> 29:48.396
[SPEAKER_03]: And the people who, you know, let's say it, Roman Reigns didn't have that booking.

29:48.376 --> 29:52.685
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like when you're talking about like everyone else does and it's like, well, you had to earn it.

29:52.806 --> 29:55.491
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, got you a handpicked Roman rings.

29:55.712 --> 29:56.554
[SPEAKER_03]: You didn't have to earn it.

29:56.794 --> 30:00.282
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, in John Cena when you figured it out, you didn't go backwards with him.

30:00.743 --> 30:03.088
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I mean, you went with him when you figured it out.

30:03.168 --> 30:04.752
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the beginning, no, it wasn't there.

30:05.894 --> 30:08.179
[SPEAKER_03]: Brock Lesnar, come on, day one, right?

30:08.279 --> 30:08.680
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

30:08.660 --> 30:33.047
[SPEAKER_03]: But you're saying for the rest of these guys because of something that work with Brian Danielson as a complete flu or CM Punk that this is the only way to get these guys over and I just think it's a very

30:33.027 --> 30:38.577
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, where they did and the people rejected him because they gave them the Intercontinental title to early.

30:38.617 --> 30:47.653
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but, you know, in any, look, it still ended up being a main eventer and, and the biggest starter in the company, you know, not much longer after that.

30:47.673 --> 30:51.981
[SPEAKER_03]: So it wasn't like it was a failure, even though people will look at,

30:51.961 --> 31:06.430
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, that one period and romanticize it of being a lot worse of a failure than it really was, you know, and, and, and they're going, you know, but everyone's going with that mentality and every company that like if someone gets hot, you know, it's like, well, they've got to earn it.

31:06.450 --> 31:07.692
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got to earn it.

31:07.672 --> 31:25.765
[SPEAKER_01]: And look at the guy he's wrestling because there's scope out it didn't come back from excursion and and go 500 he did not you know they went with him he delivered they gave him the ball he ran with it But they gave him a chance to do so they didn't have him go three and four in the G1 that year for whatever the record would have been you know he'd they've no

31:25.745 --> 31:30.051
[SPEAKER_03]: No, he was a handpicked guy from day one from his return from excursion.

31:30.432 --> 31:36.721
[SPEAKER_03]: And they were going to go all the way with him and Ocata ended up being, you know, in really a bigger star than Tana Hashie.

31:37.382 --> 31:38.344
[SPEAKER_03]: And what's your day there, young?

31:38.764 --> 31:41.148
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that's, yeah.

31:41.168 --> 31:44.132
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's that stuff that they haven't done where they did, it's funny.

31:44.493 --> 31:49.060
[SPEAKER_03]: The, you know, Ocata was the biggest star of the post-Enoki era in New Japan.

31:49.781 --> 31:50.622
[SPEAKER_03]: And,

31:51.142 --> 31:55.068
[SPEAKER_03]: They didn't book him, you know, I mean, Tana Hashi to a degree he had earned it.

31:55.088 --> 32:05.983
[SPEAKER_03]: It took him years, but it's like, you know, even when they finally went with him, I still saw him as so much bigger than Umino and Uimura.

32:06.023 --> 32:07.966
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it was, it wasn't a midcard guy.

32:08.026 --> 32:12.252
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, he was, he got that under 30 title when he was what 24 years old roughly.

32:12.272 --> 32:14.556
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a little older, 25, 26.

32:14.876 --> 32:16.238
[SPEAKER_03]: But still, but still,

32:16.218 --> 32:19.863
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, these guys are all around 30 and they're not even more ton of how she was 26.

32:19.903 --> 32:22.380
[SPEAKER_03]: So no, it's not the same thing.

32:22.512 --> 32:52.519
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned Roman Reigns, and he had a title reign in 2020 that was one of those old timer reigns that you could arguably say probably never would have happened in the modern age or been built without the Tonahashi reign of this ten title defenses that then kind of predicated the Okada 720 day title reign, so you're thinking about all these other

32:52.499 --> 33:05.656
[SPEAKER_00]: was cascading over the rest of wrestling, but you brought up Brock Lesnar, and that brings up a moment in Tana-Hashi's career in about 2006 in July.

33:05.696 --> 33:13.326
[SPEAKER_00]: Brock Lesnar is not coming back to New Japan to do the title change with Tana-Hashi.

33:13.306 --> 33:16.990
[SPEAKER_00]: And he has to talk about it on the interview.

33:17.030 --> 33:20.634
[SPEAKER_00]: He says, if they're a wrestling god, we will find a solution to this.

33:20.654 --> 33:27.241
[SPEAKER_00]: And he ends up winning a six-man tournament, a couple of days later, for a first IWGP heavyweight title rate.

33:27.962 --> 33:32.487
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that this had any negative impact on his career?

33:32.547 --> 33:33.948
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it was negligible?

33:34.549 --> 33:37.412
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that had Brock Lesnar done the job?

33:37.592 --> 33:39.094
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything would have been different in the long run?

33:40.171 --> 33:59.496
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that it was a negative at the time, but it was something that was overcome, but I think that it, as a win, I think it would have sped him up by three years, maybe, because I think a win over Brock, because of how strong Brock was.

34:00.317 --> 34:05.484
[SPEAKER_03]: Now you're beating somebody really tangible, you're slain a real monster, you're the guy.

34:06.365 --> 34:07.326
[SPEAKER_03]: And,

34:07.559 --> 34:14.014
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, by doing, by winning it in that tournament, he was the guy, by default, rather than the guy.

34:14.274 --> 34:22.292
[SPEAKER_03]: And it took a while to overcome that long run, no difference in his career, because he got to where he was gonna get to either way.

34:23.134 --> 34:25.720
[SPEAKER_03]: But like, I think it,

34:25.700 --> 34:40.738
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it took him, you know, maybe two years, maybe three, I think to where he overcame the fall championship, the fall championship position sucks and he had it.

34:41.174 --> 34:58.879
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it's funny that in 2004 the IWGP title vacated twice and plus six title changes and it was just chaos that you're trying to get any get anything going in that book the book the booking in the mentality, you know, the anokin mentality, I mean, who's

34:58.859 --> 35:05.910
[SPEAKER_03]: It was terrible for it's time, you know, it's like, you know, anokis out there, you know, and so many people in wrestling are like this.

35:06.451 --> 35:09.596
[SPEAKER_03]: He's out there and he had incredible, incredible success in the 70s.

35:09.996 --> 35:13.962
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I kept trying to duplicate the 70s and there was no anokis.

35:14.944 --> 35:19.591
[SPEAKER_03]: The idea of, you know, fighting MMA fighters, I mean, it did work in the 70s.

35:19.952 --> 35:27.263
[SPEAKER_03]: It didn't work in the 2000s and the world had changed and, you know, I mean,

35:28.103 --> 35:49.150
[SPEAKER_03]: It, you know, Tonahashi, of course of one of the said to me this, when Tonahashi first got the title and some people didn't accept him as champion because of all the champions, there was that thread of to be the IWGP champion you had to be a badass shooter as well as

35:49.130 --> 35:57.052
[SPEAKER_03]: hopefully a good worker, but like that and no key thing where they believed you were real and that nobody believed Tana-Hashi was a real shooter.

35:57.353 --> 35:58.817
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?

35:59.058 --> 36:04.152
[SPEAKER_03]: He was all 100% performer, but he was the one who proved

36:04.132 --> 36:12.939
[SPEAKER_03]: in New Japan, that 100% performer, the way the fan base had changed, was actually good because the fan base was going to performances.

36:12.979 --> 36:16.302
[SPEAKER_03]: They were not going to see fake shoots anymore.

36:16.502 --> 36:17.303
[SPEAKER_03]: And fake shoots.

36:17.583 --> 36:20.546
[SPEAKER_03]: Fake shoots died as soon as they saw real shoots.

36:21.226 --> 36:22.207
[SPEAKER_01]: It was real.

36:22.567 --> 36:29.213
[SPEAKER_01]: And the crazy stuff about having a work match after a shoot match, telling, okay, everybody, here's the real match.

36:29.313 --> 36:34.037
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, here's the fake stuff, which is really what you're doing.

36:34.017 --> 36:35.239
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then you mentioned too.

36:35.579 --> 36:39.865
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good point, Tana Hashie being a more a traditional pro wrestler to actually get over.

36:40.165 --> 36:41.487
[SPEAKER_01]: When did Nakamura take off?

36:41.727 --> 36:46.794
[SPEAKER_01]: When he stopped trying to work like he was doing, he always had MMA kind of within his working style.

36:47.154 --> 36:54.063
[SPEAKER_01]: But when he got flamboyant, when he put on the jacket, when he started doing the some of the more flamboyant, Freddie Mercury, Michael Jackson moves.

36:54.103 --> 36:55.305
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when Nakamura got over.

36:55.325 --> 36:59.350
[SPEAKER_01]: And those two fed off of each other because you had somebody that was a little more.

36:59.330 --> 37:05.727
[SPEAKER_01]: Traditional, like Tonahashi traditional baby face and the more, I don't know, kind of out there a little bit, not a mora.

37:05.787 --> 37:13.086
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't quite the traditional baby face heel dynamic, but there was a nice contrast there, but then they could just have pro wrestling matches and the people came back.

37:13.657 --> 37:15.139
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:15.159 --> 37:38.091
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Nakamura was important too, you know, I mean as far as like, because you always need to, you always need to arrive on it first, you know, he had Nakamura, you know, he wrote you go to for a while and then, you know, the foreigners, you know, that, where the foreigners really, you know, you didn't have that great crew of foreigners that could headline until later in his run.

37:38.111 --> 37:42.837
[SPEAKER_03]: And by then, when they really had that, that's when O'Cotta was on top, you know,

37:43.120 --> 37:43.881
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

37:43.901 --> 37:48.590
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Kenny was his first truly great foreign rival consistently, right?

37:48.610 --> 37:52.878
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to think, yeah, I mean, he worked with, he worked with AJ AJ.

37:52.938 --> 37:53.679
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah, of course.

37:53.760 --> 37:54.501
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.

37:54.781 --> 37:55.763
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, AJ was up there.

37:55.823 --> 37:56.525
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, pardon me.

37:56.545 --> 38:02.175
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, in fact, in fact, for years, I don't know if they would still say this, but both of them told me.

38:02.442 --> 38:08.170
[SPEAKER_03]: that the G1 match, that they had with each other, both of them told me that was the greatest match of their career.

38:08.270 --> 38:23.510
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if they would both say that today, but they did say that it was many years after, you know, probably four or five years after, where I think Tana Hanshin said that and I mentioned to AJ and AJ said, you know, to me that, yeah, that's the best match of my career for sure.

38:23.530 --> 38:25.513
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it was really an incredible match.

38:25.493 --> 38:27.576
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're right, AJ's the correct answer there, right?

38:27.596 --> 38:32.723
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why I blank that, but yeah, but even Prince Devitt, you know, like that was how they got Devitt over a little bit.

38:32.743 --> 38:45.662
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he turned on, he turned on Taguchi, but he had to beat up Tana Hashie to get political over, so that's another example of them having to be the guy no matter who else is involved, if you're going to be a heal, he got to take out Tana Hashie.

38:45.794 --> 39:14.687
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, and the thing is, is that because the people had that empathy for Tonahashi that it was, you know, at first, at first, anyone who turned on Tonahashi and, and, and like that, it was going to get over now, we would sustain, you know, that depended on the quality of the guy itself, you know, I mean, like you're in New Japan because the standard was so high to sustain, you had to be really freaking good, you know, I mean, guys who are average in New Japan, you know, they stood out because so many of those guys were so great.

39:15.697 --> 39:19.463
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you mentioned Naka Murab being one of his rivals.

39:19.884 --> 39:20.185
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

39:20.205 --> 39:24.111
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Tanaashi has four, four arrows in my mind.

39:24.171 --> 39:25.974
[SPEAKER_00]: You have the rise up until about 2004.

39:26.716 --> 39:28.859
[SPEAKER_00]: He has his reign until O'Connor gets there.

39:29.220 --> 39:34.108
[SPEAKER_00]: Then he is the ace because O'Connor is the guy with the, that they're, making the guy in the, thanks.

39:34.128 --> 39:35.150
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's called the ace.

39:35.170 --> 39:37.013
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you have the,

39:36.993 --> 39:39.338
[SPEAKER_00]: the victory lap from like 20, 20 and on.

39:39.418 --> 39:58.275
[SPEAKER_00]: So in that 2004 to 2012, he's got Shabada, he's got Nakamura, he's got giant Bernard, he's got Eugene and God, Haroki go to who are some other other opponents that really helped him become who he was during.

39:58.255 --> 40:01.423
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I thought the win over Muto with the Tokyo dome was a big one.

40:01.564 --> 40:14.998
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that was like the one that really got him over the top because, you know, Muto, even though he was well past his prime, he was still Muto and the idea of beating Muto to win the, you know, like Muto had a good run as the outside of where the chain.

40:14.978 --> 40:27.090
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, so the, you know, that story usually works well with New Japan, as you get the, you know, with the outside of the championship, and somebody representing our company has to beat them.

40:27.130 --> 40:30.338
[SPEAKER_03]: And the guy was Tanahashi, so he was,

40:30.318 --> 40:46.960
[SPEAKER_03]: the company rep to slay the outsider and that to me that was actually the one where at that point it was like okay he is really the guy not one of the guys so so that that went over I think that that went and then

40:46.940 --> 40:52.426
[SPEAKER_03]: Did any of you have some other big ones, similar storylines with other people?

40:52.466 --> 40:57.311
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember if it's I had Kojima maybe or something one could before Kojima came down.

40:57.332 --> 41:03.098
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the title ring was in 2011 and he'd be good to see Kojima there.

41:03.438 --> 41:05.901
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, so we just a continuation of the Muto story.

41:06.181 --> 41:11.327
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was the first match in 2010 defective.

41:12.438 --> 41:17.024
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he made the finals of the champion carnival one year, even went over to all of Japan.

41:17.064 --> 41:18.386
[SPEAKER_01]: He made appearances for Noah.

41:18.406 --> 41:23.953
[SPEAKER_01]: Not much of an excursion, though, was he made some runs over in like month long runs.

41:23.993 --> 41:28.639
[SPEAKER_01]: He and Nakamura went to CMLL for a little while to sell something, beating or something like that.

41:28.739 --> 41:31.803
[SPEAKER_01]: But not a guy that spent a lot of time overseas.

41:31.843 --> 41:35.167
[SPEAKER_01]: He trained with the New Japan and went right into it.

41:35.267 --> 41:37.951
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're starting to see that now with the Young Lions currently.

41:37.991 --> 41:38.952
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the

41:38.932 --> 41:40.794
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like we're getting fewer excursions.

41:40.874 --> 41:43.816
[SPEAKER_01]: So I footage of, oh, you know, we would just went across the street to know.

41:43.876 --> 41:45.558
[SPEAKER_01]: But footage never really had one.

41:45.598 --> 41:48.881
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not sure all these guys are the dyking a guy might not have one.

41:48.901 --> 41:52.123
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe he's bringing some of that philosophy to it.

41:52.224 --> 41:53.885
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, I worked out fine for me.

41:53.945 --> 41:56.067
[SPEAKER_01]: I just went to CMLL for a month or two here.

41:56.087 --> 42:08.938
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't gone for three years, just the point, which might be good as far as maybe these guys not coming back when they're 27, 28 after being gone for three years, maybe get them into the mix a little earlier.

42:08.918 --> 42:10.982
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think you've reached a choice of different.

42:11.022 --> 42:20.057
[SPEAKER_03]: I think some guys have benefited from it, but you know, because they go away and you can kind of bring them back without the baggage, you know what I mean?

42:20.999 --> 42:22.622
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, there's no perfect fit.

42:22.982 --> 42:26.809
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, well, we'll ask right once he showed up there, he never went away.

42:26.789 --> 42:44.308
[SPEAKER_03]: And they saw this on from 22 to grow, you know, Oh, caught it did, you know, and I think it benefited Oh, caught it to be gone even though, you know, it was, you know, I mean, you could look back and go like, you know, the TNA thing was a complete, you know, I mean, I mean, it's one of the all timers, you know, as far as that.

42:44.288 --> 42:46.611
[SPEAKER_03]: as far as, like, you know, misuse of talent in history.

42:46.972 --> 42:47.152
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

42:47.172 --> 42:58.106
[SPEAKER_03]: Three and NXT and I'll kind of, and, yeah, our real head scratcher, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's one that's, that's with, with a benefit of hindsight, that's mind-boggling.

42:58.246 --> 43:10.903
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it really, it really in both cases made the company look bad when you see someone who then goes in there and does what they end up doing, you know, and, you know, this company's, you know, thought that like,

43:10.883 --> 43:16.078
[SPEAKER_03]: their worthless, you know, I mean, but, you know, whatever, DNA's made a lot of mistakes over the years.

43:16.139 --> 43:25.787
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, not just Ocada, but Ocada is the poster boy for TNA, not seeing talent when they have it.

43:25.919 --> 43:27.200
[SPEAKER_00]: Dave, I know I mentioned this to you.

43:27.641 --> 43:39.013
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be heading to Japan to Rethel Kingdom and we're also doing a fan meetup with a number of other podcast groups, SuperJacass, keep it a strong style.

43:39.413 --> 43:40.314
[SPEAKER_00]: And we work stiff.

43:40.815 --> 43:48.102
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we're all trying to collaborate with each other and Josh and Dave from we work stiff had a question for you for their own podcast.

43:48.122 --> 43:52.467
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was they wanted to know how

43:52.666 --> 44:03.422
[SPEAKER_00]: Rushal, the Okada, and Tana Hashi rivalry was for the business and growth, both in terms of the wrestlers themselves and the promotion.

44:04.143 --> 44:11.534
[SPEAKER_00]: How did that rivalry really stagger and explode the growth of each band?

44:11.554 --> 44:16.361
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I mean, the one thing, it was, it was an all-time, all-time, great rivalry.

44:17.463 --> 44:21.188
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that, um, you know, it was it.

44:21.539 --> 44:31.456
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that that was the key, I think it was the key to that cult growth in Japan and the sense that they're not on network television.

44:32.097 --> 44:40.712
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not like, you know, the guy in the streets singing, but within their world, I remember Fumi Sayido actually told me, goes like, you know, it's really

44:40.692 --> 44:48.366
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really not that big, the pro wrestling, but when you go to a show in the arena, it's like, it's the old days, you know what I mean?

44:48.386 --> 44:56.220
[SPEAKER_03]: Like fly on the streets and jump out, but in the arena where those people who are following it, it's like as big as ever and it was because, you know, you had it.

44:56.200 --> 44:59.284
[SPEAKER_03]: the Tana Hashino Kada and that rivalry.

44:59.324 --> 45:11.061
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that also it came at a time when, you know, those guys were having matches at a completely different level than, you know, maybe anyone before which helps.

45:11.582 --> 45:16.909
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, for American fans watching it, you know, once they kind of figured both guys out, it's kind of like,

45:16.889 --> 45:21.335
[SPEAKER_03]: And we don't get this kind of excitement in American wrestling, you know, these guys are just different level.

45:22.197 --> 45:33.613
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think that from a, I think that they were very key to that cult growth of New Japan in the United States, you know, which I think exploded when Omega got hot.

45:34.074 --> 45:43.167
[SPEAKER_03]: But, but Tana Hashino-Kata was the, you know, like again, I'm starting to watch this monthly regularly live the whole show, the big shows now.

45:43.147 --> 45:46.797
[SPEAKER_03]: with the first one being the Tanahashi and Norsuzuki.

45:47.178 --> 45:58.388
[SPEAKER_03]: So now I'm watching every time and every time, but then in the Japan world, you know, obviously now you're really getting a lot more product and you can see that stuff and this is a lot more reasonably priced.

45:58.368 --> 46:03.922
[SPEAKER_03]: And also, you know, the key was the access, not that access is a major station.

46:04.564 --> 46:09.136
[SPEAKER_03]: But that, you know, the Tonha Chocata matches on access TV with more when all is an answer.

46:09.617 --> 46:12.805
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, my God, that was like, I just remember they did one show.

46:12.825 --> 46:14.790
[SPEAKER_03]: It was probably the first time they did this.

46:14.770 --> 46:18.655
[SPEAKER_03]: where they had a one-hour show and their match, you know, Pride went 40, 45 minutes.

46:19.116 --> 46:23.502
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's the whole show from the ringing trends to the end of the match and everything.

46:23.863 --> 46:25.165
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the whole 60 minutes.

46:25.685 --> 46:32.695
[SPEAKER_03]: And Moro was just on his game and those guys were having that, you know, I mean, a match of the year and

46:32.675 --> 46:57.349
[SPEAKER_03]: I just thought that that was a turning point because I'm watching that go in like there's this this is this is probably the best wrestling TV show I've ever seen you know as far as just go a one match show and everything like that and you know classic match and it's being announced well and the two guys in the ring and I think that so I think that's at the stage so when the when Omega who had the charisma and was Canadian which is close to American

46:57.329 --> 46:58.751
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, was able to get there.

46:58.771 --> 47:01.776
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, look, it, it, it, look, it made AJ Styles, too.

47:02.257 --> 47:05.502
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like people, people now, there's a kind of a revisionist thing.

47:05.903 --> 47:10.931
[SPEAKER_03]: Because you remember when AJ Styles left TNA, he wasn't that big of a star.

47:10.991 --> 47:14.036
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he was just, you know, it was really a new Japan that made him a big star.

47:14.076 --> 47:24.132
[SPEAKER_03]: And when he went to WWE, now there's people go, you know, especially where you're trying to downplay new Japan and up, play TNA, going like, oh, it was the star from TNA coming in.

47:24.172 --> 47:24.973
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like,

47:24.953 --> 47:29.405
[SPEAKER_03]: But there was not that domain, but he changed the laws as the star from TNA.

47:29.426 --> 47:31.190
[SPEAKER_03]: And he also never really was.

47:31.231 --> 47:35.723
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like there was, oh, they always used the Kevin Nashers and the Stings and all those guys.

47:35.924 --> 47:37.849
[SPEAKER_00]: They were always a good individual guy.

47:38.065 --> 47:47.745
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he even got championships, but it was still like he was the home ground guy, but they always put the WCW and WF guys above him.

47:48.547 --> 47:49.489
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a secondary guy.

47:49.689 --> 47:51.954
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't become the primary guy until he beat Ocada.

47:52.415 --> 47:57.846
[SPEAKER_03]: When he beat Ocada for that championship that had been really established,

47:57.826 --> 48:02.594
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, by Tana Hashino Kada when he beat him and then he had all those great matches there.

48:02.975 --> 48:11.610
[SPEAKER_03]: That's when AJ became this guy who was able to go to WWE and overcome the size and convince and submit nags.

48:11.630 --> 48:16.999
[SPEAKER_03]: You remember at the beginning he was they didn't have big plans for him either, but it was the audience

48:16.979 --> 48:22.045
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember only how show he went to where the crowd pop was so big, where was like, I guess we have to go with him.

48:22.265 --> 48:24.328
[SPEAKER_03]: And that crowd pop was, that was New Japan.

48:24.388 --> 48:28.152
[SPEAKER_03]: That wasn't some TNA guy was, you know, pushed, but not the top guy.

48:28.352 --> 48:30.435
[SPEAKER_03]: That was the leader of the Bulls Club guy.

48:32.037 --> 48:45.332
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

48:45.447 --> 48:47.032
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God, I had to turn a Hashie.

48:47.253 --> 48:49.922
[SPEAKER_01]: He was literally crying going out with ghetto consoling him.

48:50.203 --> 48:54.799
[SPEAKER_01]: Turn a Hashie just saying, you're good kid, be a theater, you're not the ace of the universe yet.

48:55.353 --> 49:01.321
[SPEAKER_01]: that one almost built up sympathy for Ocata when they finally met and then he finally puts Ocata over sends him into the stratosphere.

49:01.922 --> 49:12.455
[SPEAKER_01]: So there was always a beyond just the title, there was always that the emotion of he was Ocata's Mount Everest that he had to climb in order to get where he needed to go.

49:12.876 --> 49:15.960
[SPEAKER_01]: And even after beating him in the big surprise, new beginning,

49:15.940 --> 49:20.727
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't really feel that O'Cotta was the guy until he finally got that wrestle kingdom win.

49:20.947 --> 49:22.670
[SPEAKER_01]: And he had already held it tight a little bit.

49:22.910 --> 49:23.912
[SPEAKER_01]: But that changed a lot.

49:23.932 --> 49:26.195
[SPEAKER_03]: He wasn't tight a little lot, but it was always to him.

49:26.335 --> 49:28.278
[SPEAKER_03]: The one thing that's important.

49:28.979 --> 49:34.928
[SPEAKER_03]: What was so great about that story is O'Cotta needed that first win to establish himself.

49:34.908 --> 49:36.751
[SPEAKER_03]: But Tanahashi was still the guy.

49:37.172 --> 49:41.920
[SPEAKER_03]: And he still had, okay, and he had to get that second win over Tanahashi.

49:42.160 --> 49:46.287
[SPEAKER_03]: And then there was still the thing of he never beat Tanahashi at Wrestle Kingdom.

49:46.768 --> 49:46.888
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?

49:46.908 --> 49:50.955
[SPEAKER_03]: Tanahashi then beat him in the Wrestle Kingdom one that people kind of expect to know how to win.

49:51.275 --> 49:53.218
[SPEAKER_03]: And when he didn't know how to do that, it's all crying and everything.

49:53.539 --> 49:59.008
[SPEAKER_03]: It made the the quest to beat Tanahashi at Wrestle Kingdom his final

49:58.988 --> 50:11.562
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, it's final step for the state, they stretched that step that the rise of Ocada, you know, even though it was, he was made a top guy immediately, they, they had that tonhashi thing in there.

50:11.922 --> 50:12.885
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, he beat you again.

50:12.925 --> 50:15.512
[SPEAKER_03]: He beat tonhashi the first time out when he came back.

50:15.492 --> 50:24.150
[SPEAKER_03]: But now he's world champion, he's having great matches, and he's very clearly the number two guy in the company.

50:24.571 --> 50:31.707
[SPEAKER_03]: And the only way is going to be number one is to beat Tana Hoshio, Tokyo don't mess the story they're telling and they dragged that one out for several years.

50:32.147 --> 50:35.174
[SPEAKER_03]: And the climactic win was that first wrestle kingdom win.

50:35.194 --> 50:35.695
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

50:35.675 --> 50:40.820
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, it makes you really even more so there are a million reasons to curse the pandemic.

50:40.860 --> 50:48.408
[SPEAKER_01]: But within the context of profession and wrestling, I went to the G1 in Dallas when it came down here.

50:48.948 --> 50:52.372
[SPEAKER_01]: And the main event, and we were all excited, it was night one of the G1.

50:52.392 --> 50:53.433
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always a big match, right?

50:53.473 --> 50:55.435
[SPEAKER_01]: And they announced it was O'Cotta versus Tana Hashie.

50:55.455 --> 50:56.796
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, oh my god, right?

50:56.816 --> 51:00.960
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that building, the American Airlines Center was probably ambitious.

51:01.161 --> 51:05.445
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just too big

51:05.425 --> 51:06.907
[SPEAKER_01]: Tana Hashie versus Okada.

51:06.927 --> 51:13.596
[SPEAKER_01]: When those two stood facing each other and Red Shoes rang the bell, the match beginning got a pop.

51:14.157 --> 51:15.058
[SPEAKER_01]: They had locked up.

51:15.359 --> 51:24.471
[SPEAKER_01]: They had, they'd all had done this looked at each other and we all stood and sheared because there was a real aura in the building like I can't believe I am seeing Tana Hashie versus Okada.

51:24.491 --> 51:27.495
[SPEAKER_01]: It had a whole other aura and that of course the pandemic.

51:27.515 --> 51:31.180
[SPEAKER_01]: They had almost filled the dome at the January of 2020.

51:31.160 --> 51:36.367
[SPEAKER_01]: very close to filling it and then the pandemic happened 19 and 20 were both sell out.

51:36.667 --> 51:40.513
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, and then they were never right.

51:41.914 --> 51:43.376
[SPEAKER_01]: They were never right again, though.

51:43.437 --> 51:48.063
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the pandemic, I'm just really wounded it and they lost their way in a lot of way.

51:48.103 --> 51:49.725
[SPEAKER_01]: There was so much.

51:49.705 --> 52:02.588
[SPEAKER_01]: momentum for New Japan going into that pandemic and Tana Hashie was still a major major part of that because that that thing that she wanted to tell us, man, it was it wasn't just that we were seeing Okada, it was Okada versus Hiroshi Tana Hashie.

52:02.768 --> 52:06.235
[SPEAKER_01]: It meant so much and it has so much momentum going into that.

52:06.255 --> 52:09.020
[SPEAKER_01]: It just I every day I just think about man if that.

52:09.240 --> 52:09.300
[UNKNOWN]: Oh!

52:09.618 --> 52:18.677
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but like like the thing is just like for the people who were there, okay, like like at that time at that time to me.

52:19.539 --> 52:27.576
[SPEAKER_03]: Tana Hashio Kata is one of the and still is one of the all time great rivalries and you can argue.

52:27.556 --> 52:28.637
[SPEAKER_03]: Bell to Bell.

52:29.018 --> 52:33.823
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like, I guess Bell to Bell, I would probably go Omega, Oh, Cotta, but they didn't have as many matches.

52:34.203 --> 52:36.326
[SPEAKER_03]: And Tana, Hoshio, Cotta is probably the two best.

52:36.666 --> 52:43.394
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I mean, like there's other eras, you know, like, Dory Funk, you know, Junior and Jack Briscoe, when I was a kid, was, was that, was that.

52:43.434 --> 52:44.875
[SPEAKER_01]: Claire and steamboat, Claire and steamboat.

52:44.895 --> 52:46.277
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I'm Sawa and Cuada.

52:46.297 --> 52:46.777
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm Sawa and Cuada.

52:46.797 --> 52:51.943
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

52:51.923 --> 52:52.504
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

52:52.564 --> 52:54.387
[SPEAKER_03]: So those are those are there.

52:54.407 --> 53:09.088
[SPEAKER_03]: But Tana Hashino Kada, I mean, it's like, it's later the style that evolved more, and they had so many matches and so many, because really, you know, Omega and Okaadi it's two years, Tana Hashino Kada was.

53:09.203 --> 53:38.299
[SPEAKER_03]: what, eight solid years, and then at the end, maybe not as much, but it was a magical thing, it was, it was the one like Dorifon Jr. Jack Borsko, you know, where it went through the stages and you know that this guy's the challenger, is the real guy who's gonna be carrying it and everything, and it took a long time to get there and everything, but I consider it like to me, like Miss Alcova and Miss Alcova, she's just at the top guys and they're wrestling each other.

53:38.279 --> 53:38.820
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

53:38.840 --> 53:44.048
[SPEAKER_03]: And, and, and, and, you know, and the quest for quantities first win, go Bosch is first win.

53:44.369 --> 53:49.657
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all there, but it's, I, I just thought, I don't know.

53:49.717 --> 53:54.345
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that O'Cada and Tana Hashi had more emotion to it.

53:54.485 --> 53:57.790
[SPEAKER_03]: Even if those matches had a more real feel to it.

53:57.770 --> 54:15.036
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and so that that to me like, and also like again, it wasn't as big in the United States by this point, you know, we, we have some people watching on access, we have some people who are, you know, watching a new Japan world, it's not a giant number, but to those people, this is the best wrestling in the world of that point.

54:15.016 --> 54:35.400
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like whatever was 455,000 in Dallas, it's like, yes, it's not 14,000 people, but to those people, it's like I am seeing what I only saw before on New Japan world or what I only saw in access TV and I never thought I'd ever actually see it live and here it is.

54:35.540 --> 54:36.782
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you had that moment.

54:36.862 --> 54:38.904
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was, that was incredible moment.

54:38.924 --> 54:39.505
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

54:39.805 --> 54:51.904
[SPEAKER_00]: So between those two, Tana Hachino-Kan weren't 2012 and Tana Hachino-Kan and Tana Hachino-Kan, and Tana Hachino begins the process of putting him over.

54:52.445 --> 54:57.713
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have what's arguably the golden age of New Japan.

54:57.693 --> 55:13.778
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you see a correlation with Ocata leaving New Japan in 2023-2024 and not putting anybody over and not setting anybody up for that next generation for the next decade and the promotion being where it is now?

55:14.028 --> 55:15.951
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I thought that was not going to hurt, too.

55:16.152 --> 55:20.399
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought both of them leaving and not putting people over was not good.

55:21.100 --> 55:24.826
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know what the mentality was.

55:24.886 --> 55:36.145
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, obviously not going to double WF there, you know, that there's probably something there, Ocada with A, W, probably something similar there, you know, because it's now a worldwide business and everything.

55:36.205 --> 55:39.370
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're spending all this money to get a guy in.

55:39.971 --> 55:40.592
[SPEAKER_03]: But,

55:40.572 --> 56:01.686
[SPEAKER_03]: at the same time the promotion made both of those guys and I think that both of those guys should be like what I assume time and I'm just going to do you know and you know and everything did just a lot of people is that like you know again like oh caught it to me you know because jumbo never did it either but but jumbo's health went bad.

56:01.666 --> 56:08.017
[SPEAKER_03]: But I always thought that that emptiness of jumbo sruda, you know, he did lose to masala ones, which was that really famous match.

56:08.037 --> 56:12.424
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and again, like, like, that's one of the most memorable matches I've ever seen live.

56:12.444 --> 56:13.025
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

56:13.045 --> 56:15.449
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, I have very, very, very, very live good Lord.

56:15.670 --> 56:16.371
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm so alive.

56:16.411 --> 56:16.832
[SPEAKER_03]: Unbelievable.

56:17.032 --> 56:18.915
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so glad I did that match because I learned.

56:19.823 --> 56:31.781
[SPEAKER_03]: But they never, it's like, it's like, Ocata, you know, it would've been something for Ocata to lose to, you know, not ton of Hashi on the way out, because that didn't really matter.

56:32.322 --> 56:36.829
[SPEAKER_03]: But to somebody, right, you know, Yoda, Sue, Gier, whatever.

56:36.849 --> 56:39.773
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't even remember if he was back by then already,

56:39.753 --> 56:54.775
[SPEAKER_03]: He was, but you know, took to just put somebody over, um, I think that that would have been a real, a real, real important woman that you can get that and, and, um, you know, and I think that, you know, all the people involved.

56:54.755 --> 57:15.379
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, even if with Tony Con as well, should have just gone, let's do the right thing for the company and I know Ocada wasn't keen on it either, but it's just like, let's just do, you know, I think Tony actually should force it and just kind of look it's coming to us to the right thing for our partner and and you know, whether it's whoever it's going to be.

57:15.359 --> 57:26.112
[SPEAKER_03]: whoever it's going to be just do the one the one loss on the way out just and the same and the same with not the mirror I just like one loss only had to do one and and you use really should do it and

57:26.885 --> 57:34.901
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's been a lot of, that's been a big boner of contenture for New Japan fans as the relationship with AEW and how it feels from the New Japan side feels very, very one-sided.

57:35.502 --> 57:42.135
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's been, it's been something else where seeming like another company's little brother has heard the perception of it.

57:42.155 --> 57:46.463
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know all too, but you know, it's, it's just like, but, but, but

57:46.443 --> 57:58.925
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think especially for Japan, like in Mexico, I think the fans are okay with it, but Japan, because the thing with Japan is that four years and years and years Japan wrestling was number one in the world, so they have that thing.

57:59.025 --> 58:02.151
[SPEAKER_03]: And Japanese wrestling was built on Rikido's NBA Americans.

58:02.692 --> 58:07.540
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like a whole fabric of Japanese progress and when it's out its hottest is...

58:07.520 --> 58:09.522
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, we are the best in the world.

58:09.863 --> 58:26.302
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you start in the situation where you become the little brother, you know, like when WWF became big and now all of a sudden, guys actually just make more money outside of Japan and did, you know, it was kind of like, I think that that hurt Japanese wrestling, but they still did great in the 90s.

58:26.842 --> 58:32.869
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, now, you know, I do think that, you know, New Japan fans can't sit there and go like,

58:33.423 --> 58:38.513
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the Americans may be more famous worldwide, but we know we have the best.

58:38.954 --> 58:40.276
[SPEAKER_03]: And right now, they can't say that.

58:40.296 --> 58:43.683
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's a big thing that's, that's her, that's her new Japan's come back.

58:44.123 --> 58:51.297
[SPEAKER_03]: Because, you know, I mean, we'll last break did put people over on the way out, but still, you know, you know, and sort of J.Y.

58:51.277 --> 59:05.921
[SPEAKER_03]: but it's still like we're losing, we're losing the top guys to WF and WBV and AW and and it's not like we're getting people from them because they're not and yeah that's important in Japan.

59:06.962 --> 59:11.209
[SPEAKER_01]: So with that in mind Dave, once January 5th happens

59:11.425 --> 59:15.150
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Tana Hash, he's not an active wrestler anymore, but he's still president of the company.

59:15.170 --> 59:18.415
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what do you think, just what would your advice be?

59:18.435 --> 59:27.668
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you think that his main priorities are going to be as president out of the ring where he's going into the office every day and trying to get this company back on track?

59:27.688 --> 59:31.373
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to start with a nice big boom, a nice big sellout, that's good for morale, right?

59:31.393 --> 59:32.134
[SPEAKER_01]: That's always healthy.

59:32.615 --> 59:34.638
[SPEAKER_01]: Old award gymnasium, the next night, that's a match.

59:34.898 --> 59:36.340
[SPEAKER_01]: Plenty of tickets available for that one.

59:36.761 --> 59:41.247
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and he has to sell things going forward,

59:42.070 --> 59:56.954
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think you should get out as much as he can and do as much of media as he can and really promote, but make sure that that they've got three guys and one guy and then two other guys were right underneath him and make it very clear.

59:56.994 --> 59:57.996
[SPEAKER_03]: These are the guys.

59:58.637 --> 01:00:06.089
[SPEAKER_03]: The problem is is that like for them, those three guys to get the wins they need the wins they need are all are all over guys that.

01:00:06.109 --> 01:00:06.930
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:00:06.910 --> 01:00:17.258
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, it's there anymore, who can get them there, they're not there and that's the that's the problem I think so so I would I would say is I would really

01:00:17.407 --> 01:00:25.719
[SPEAKER_03]: try to bolster at best the relationship with AEW and just go look, you know, we need for our business.

01:00:26.059 --> 01:00:33.089
[SPEAKER_03]: Just send John Moxley over, you know, and have him lose to show to them, you know, you know what I mean?

01:00:33.269 --> 01:00:42.001
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't hurt John Moxley, you know, or send Adam Page because the people who respect Adam Page is a top guy or MJA for somebody, right?

01:00:42.442 --> 01:00:44.545
[SPEAKER_03]: And just give us, you know,

01:00:44.525 --> 01:01:02.525
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, a loss for those guys in Japan doesn't hurt them one eye out in the United States and just go in there and I mean, I don't know if Tony would go for it, because Tony's got a certain vision and everything like that, but that would be one of the things I would do is, again, and on the flip side, some of your guys come over and win.

01:01:02.665 --> 01:01:12.456
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of like try to get the A-W relationship stronger and get your few key wins and other losses too,

01:01:12.436 --> 01:01:14.519
[SPEAKER_03]: But make it so it's back and forth.

01:01:14.939 --> 01:01:22.869
[SPEAKER_03]: And so our guys can be considerate the level of the top guys because they're not going to beat whoever.

01:01:22.929 --> 01:01:25.712
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not going to beat CM Punk and Roman Reigns or whatever.

01:01:26.033 --> 01:01:28.235
[SPEAKER_03]: So the AWS, your best bet.

01:01:28.335 --> 01:01:31.399
[SPEAKER_03]: And the top Mexican guys, they're junior heavyweight.

01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:34.863
[SPEAKER_03]: So you can't really go and send a mystical over there to lose.

01:01:34.903 --> 01:01:37.887
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to matter in the Japanese mentality.

01:01:37.867 --> 01:02:03.857
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's really your top three or four A, W guys and just try to make it like a real beneficial thing and also try to sell it on the idea that it helps forbidden door if we've got three or four guys that you really need for forbidden door like when they first did forbidden door when they had will and they had Ocada and they had Tana Hashin people like that that the American fans really wanted to see and that's why forbidden door at first was a big success.

01:02:04.580 --> 01:02:05.821
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's tricky too.

01:02:05.861 --> 01:02:16.614
[SPEAKER_01]: The last six months, we've just, the perception is just being that the world heavyweight champion would rather be doing a six man on dynamite than being over here on our cards.

01:02:16.694 --> 01:02:19.457
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not, it's not a good message to send.

01:02:19.577 --> 01:02:22.801
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a, we talked about these guys failing in the G1.

01:02:23.201 --> 01:02:28.107
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, we're more a sugey fail fail fail, not quite getting there, but the guy that didn't fail.

01:02:28.087 --> 01:02:29.191
[SPEAKER_01]: can't be bothered to show up.

01:02:29.352 --> 01:02:34.231
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's, and that, but the people that you were asking you to pay to see, they all failed.

01:02:34.693 --> 01:02:35.476
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a tough sell.

01:02:35.717 --> 01:02:38.468
[SPEAKER_01]: They're putting themselves in a tough position with this whole deal.

01:02:39.882 --> 01:02:43.969
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I didn't like the G1 booking at all, you know, I didn't like the G1 booking.

01:02:43.989 --> 01:02:45.611
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't even like the build to the Tokyo dome.

01:02:45.631 --> 01:02:50.198
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's like they got, no, it got the guaranteed sellout.

01:02:50.499 --> 01:02:55.747
[SPEAKER_03]: So to me, the undercard should be all about focusing on those three or four guys.

01:02:55.767 --> 01:03:02.498
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, yeah, they're focusing on Aaron Wolff, which at the time, before I saw them, I thought, yeah, yeah, you know, like the one guy,

01:03:02.478 --> 01:03:05.883
[SPEAKER_03]: the end of one career, the start of another, you know, superstar.

01:03:06.143 --> 01:03:12.873
[SPEAKER_03]: But now that I don't see Aaron Wolf being a superstar, granted, maybe will he'll pull a miracle and he'll be what they want.

01:03:12.893 --> 01:03:17.200
[SPEAKER_03]: But but it's like you got you got to and I guess sushi's in the right spot.

01:03:17.560 --> 01:03:24.891
[SPEAKER_03]: But the rest of those guys, I mean, I kind of get why they're in that gauntlet, but at the same time it's like it's it's it's

01:03:24.871 --> 01:03:27.796
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not it's not it's not a strong enough card.

01:03:27.936 --> 01:03:28.537
[SPEAKER_01]: No.

01:03:28.797 --> 01:03:44.463
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a match that got let matches a match where everybody gets their stuff in God knows Let's get our stuff in but no one's gonna stand out right there there's too many there just too many people around for anyone to stand out And it's gonna have to move too fast and you know But best match in the other cards probably gonna become a tiny insheri.

01:03:44.863 --> 01:03:49.731
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah probably if they get 10 minutes that get a blow Everyone else get a feel like they're gonna have to step it up

01:03:50.133 --> 01:03:54.899
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine them not getting 10, but they're probably not, I'm sure they're not getting 20.

01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:59.525
[SPEAKER_00]: I was worried they wouldn't get eight at one point and then I saw the length of all of the card.

01:03:59.545 --> 01:04:01.407
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, well, they'll get less 10 to 15.

01:04:01.728 --> 01:04:04.311
[SPEAKER_00]: She won the MVP in the Tokyo Sports.

01:04:04.712 --> 01:04:06.994
[SPEAKER_00]: They have to give them, they have to give them time now.

01:04:07.415 --> 01:04:09.478
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they have to, yeah, yeah.

01:04:09.498 --> 01:04:10.699
[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, here's the other thing too.

01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:17.608
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, you know, it should be number two match on the card number, well, not number two, can't be number two.

01:04:17.588 --> 01:04:25.377
[SPEAKER_03]: It could be number four, because you still got to put Aaron Wolf late, but after that, you know, that's where they should be.

01:04:25.417 --> 01:04:26.501
[SPEAKER_03]: They shouldn't be second match.

01:04:26.521 --> 01:04:27.565
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, yeah.

01:04:27.832 --> 01:04:37.984
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, it is a puzzler isn't it because here they are on national television for the first time in the rest of came to mirror and this really should be all about Oh, I want to see these guys next month.

01:04:38.204 --> 01:04:42.309
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, wow, you know, I came here for time to hash you versus so caught it with that dude was cool.

01:04:42.369 --> 01:04:43.370
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go see him again.

01:04:43.550 --> 01:04:47.575
[SPEAKER_01]: The knockout brothers, you know, like that type of thing seemed to be getting over with the crowd and resonating.

01:04:47.835 --> 01:04:47.935
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:04:47.955 --> 01:04:54.042
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, oh, I want to see go see those guys next month when they come through and a lot of the guys in the future matches aren't going to be there in January

01:04:54.022 --> 01:04:58.568
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're there, they're there, but they're in the, in the, in the gauntlet.

01:04:58.588 --> 01:04:58.908
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:04:58.928 --> 01:05:08.420
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not, you know, it's like, even Zack, you know, it's like, there's nothing worse than Zack Saber in the gauntlet because, you know, Zack Saber, you know, you need to do, he's got to be in a singles match in theory.

01:05:08.981 --> 01:05:09.101
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:05:09.121 --> 01:05:14.448
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, for him and his best, you know, judo and Oscar, they really need to be in a tag team title match.

01:05:14.468 --> 01:05:20.215
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's another one they put it, you know, they put that a dash, it's like, that

01:05:20.195 --> 01:05:31.049
[SPEAKER_01]: And plus you have your guys saying insane stuff, just the verbal gymnastics that Zack has had to do to try to put over the idea that no, I don't want to be in a featured match in a soldout dome show.

01:05:31.149 --> 01:05:32.972
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd rather have our match at New Year's Dash.

01:05:33.272 --> 01:05:34.013
[SPEAKER_01]: No one believes that.

01:05:34.193 --> 01:05:35.435
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just an iconic thing.

01:05:35.535 --> 01:05:36.196
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just silliness.

01:05:36.817 --> 01:05:38.979
[SPEAKER_01]: Zack, by the way, I always, I don't know what you think David.

01:05:38.999 --> 01:05:45.628
[SPEAKER_01]: I always thought the Zack the last three years, it's kind of how she's best upon it because you can have a match with Zack where you don't have to run and jump a lot.

01:05:45.608 --> 01:05:52.784
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're timing and they're sense of, I always love that Tana Hashie seems to know exactly when to make it come back.

01:05:53.085 --> 01:05:56.152
[SPEAKER_01]: Precisely that moment to make it come back.

01:05:56.232 --> 01:06:03.769
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, my actual favorite wrestling matches are Tana Hashie and Zack Saber because they are what I consider safe super entertaining and pro wrestling.

01:06:03.749 --> 01:06:07.155
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and you can get the feel of real.

01:06:07.636 --> 01:06:16.011
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's the kind of a match where you have the baby face, Tanaashi, who looks competitive and looks at that level, because you know, Zach's a superstar.

01:06:16.031 --> 01:06:19.316
[SPEAKER_03]: Tanaashi, when he's in there with Zach, he still looks like the Tanaashi of old.

01:06:19.337 --> 01:06:28.693
[SPEAKER_03]: Even though he's not doing the moves of Tanaashi of old, but he's in that competitive style match where his weaknesses aren't showing as much.

01:06:28.673 --> 01:06:32.938
[SPEAKER_03]: So, um, but I mean, even before Tom Hoshie, you know, is an easy one completely out.

01:06:33.599 --> 01:06:52.860
[SPEAKER_03]: I love Tom Hoshie and Zach Saber when Zach wasn't at the top because it was just, you know, when Tom Hoshie put Zachals, there's another one, Tom Hoshie put a little bit of a by submission and not really, you know, that was like a total blow away, you know, we're at Mattis Square Garden for that British Repro-Title match?

01:06:53.741 --> 01:06:55.103
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I was not.

01:06:55.741 --> 01:06:58.244
[SPEAKER_01]: That's to the main of it.

01:06:58.264 --> 01:07:01.068
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what kingdom is probably going to be the fireman, sir, itself.

01:07:01.548 --> 01:07:08.477
[SPEAKER_01]: Any more of them, right there, but what do you expect in the ring from Tana Hashie and O'Kata?

01:07:08.497 --> 01:07:14.645
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like O'Kata is going to be motivated in that building and that atmosphere with that large of a crowd.

01:07:15.326 --> 01:07:21.934
[SPEAKER_01]: Tana Hashie's knees, I mean, if we hear about the great Japanese Cortezone shortage of 2026, well, no, it's going to happen.

01:07:21.914 --> 01:07:27.560
[SPEAKER_01]: But, I mean, what do you think you're going to be capable of in the ring itself?

01:07:27.841 --> 01:07:33.166
[SPEAKER_01]: I picture 15, 20 minutes, you know, don't go crazy with him, you know, what do you think?

01:07:33.907 --> 01:07:37.611
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a goal over 20 and I think that they will really do it.

01:07:37.631 --> 01:07:38.012
[SPEAKER_03]: I do.

01:07:38.132 --> 01:07:39.794
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think they'll do everything they can.

01:07:39.834 --> 01:07:41.436
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really an important match.

01:07:41.456 --> 01:07:45.340
[SPEAKER_03]: I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

01:07:46.552 --> 01:07:48.016
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I expect a great match.

01:07:48.297 --> 01:07:53.453
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think that somehow this is one of those where it's just gotta be pulled off.

01:07:53.533 --> 01:07:55.319
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the stakes are too high and everything.

01:07:55.399 --> 01:07:58.047
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know,

01:07:58.786 --> 01:08:06.195
[SPEAKER_00]: One of those, he's not what he used to be, but for one night, he's as good as he ever was, kind of... Well, I don't think it can be that.

01:08:06.956 --> 01:08:11.421
[SPEAKER_03]: It, you know, here's the thing, no matter, it can't live, it's, I don't expect or anything.

01:08:11.802 --> 01:08:13.804
[SPEAKER_03]: It can't live up to that standard.

01:08:13.905 --> 01:08:19.191
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know if I can live up to the San Jose match, but, but...

01:08:19.171 --> 01:08:27.802
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it will still be a great wrestling match with a lot of emotion, and I think it'll all work out.

01:08:27.922 --> 01:08:47.187
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if, you know, I mean, and it's okay for it not to be the old Tanahashi Okada matches because part of the going out is the acknowledgment that this is a symbolic

01:08:47.167 --> 01:08:50.353
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's why people are going like, well, you should win, right?

01:08:50.534 --> 01:08:54.842
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, he really sh- Every retirement is different, okay?

01:08:55.002 --> 01:08:57.206
[SPEAKER_03]: But time to how she should not win this match.

01:08:57.226 --> 01:09:03.218
[SPEAKER_03]: Because the reality is, is that the story is, and has been told for years, is that

01:09:03.198 --> 01:09:12.611
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, Tonashi is not at that level and we understand that he's going to lose, but he makes us feel something when he loses.

01:09:13.132 --> 01:09:19.421
[SPEAKER_03]: Him winning would be a great shock and you could do it, but it's still, I don't think it fits the story.

01:09:19.601 --> 01:09:24.108
[SPEAKER_03]: And the story is as he lost and then he's going to go out there and you have the ceremony.

01:09:24.548 --> 01:09:30.537
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, if he wins, I mean, the ceremony still the main event and that's the most important thing on the show.

01:09:30.557 --> 01:09:30.657
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

01:09:32.003 --> 01:09:47.945
[SPEAKER_01]: Any thoughts on how the world title slash global title thing would go I feel very strongly that you've got to have your world champion on the show's and I've always said that with it so she's got to win this and you got to put him over and he's got to be the guy you need a guy who's there all the time.

01:09:48.626 --> 01:09:57.538
[SPEAKER_01]: I love going to skate to catch up my goodness, I think he's the closest thing to what kind of they've had since I've got as far as the guy with sorry for just everything for a couple of time.

01:09:57.518 --> 01:10:01.002
[SPEAKER_01]: He ever comes full time to Japan, go with him to the end of the earth.

01:10:01.302 --> 01:10:01.743
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you.

01:10:01.883 --> 01:10:05.067
[SPEAKER_01]: But for now, I feel like you got to put it on sushi if he's going to be there full time.

01:10:05.327 --> 01:10:06.088
[SPEAKER_01]: What's on that?

01:10:06.108 --> 01:10:07.189
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.

01:10:07.209 --> 01:10:07.870
[SPEAKER_03]: sushi house.

01:10:07.930 --> 01:10:08.270
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

01:10:08.791 --> 01:10:09.251
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:10:09.392 --> 01:10:12.635
[SPEAKER_03]: If there's there's there's to me, there's no other there's no other finish.

01:10:14.157 --> 01:10:16.340
[SPEAKER_03]: Because they got to go with them.

01:10:16.440 --> 01:10:17.361
[SPEAKER_03]: They got nobody else.

01:10:17.641 --> 01:10:21.906
[SPEAKER_03]: And you now, especially now,

01:10:21.886 --> 01:10:27.774
[SPEAKER_03]: after this show, you cannot have a part-time world champion who comes in only for, you know, four big shows a year.

01:10:28.214 --> 01:10:31.298
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a period of time, you know, when John Moxy was championed, I thought it was fine.

01:10:31.539 --> 01:10:32.480
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was kind of cool.

01:10:32.961 --> 01:10:43.875
[SPEAKER_03]: But, but, um, with, uh, with Takeshita, you know, I think him winning was fine, but it's to set him winning has to be to set up the next guy.

01:10:44.536 --> 01:10:49.362
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's what Suji is and, and I think this is the, I just, I'd be

01:10:49.342 --> 01:10:54.402
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think it would be a terrible terrible move to not have surgery when the match.

01:10:54.422 --> 01:10:58.558
[SPEAKER_00]: Dave, I'm so worried that there to catch it if it's going to win that match.

01:10:58.910 --> 01:11:13.448
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just sitting there and I'm thinking about the fact that Suji has never held that IWGP title on his own and then all of a sudden you can be pulling an ultimate warrior and holding two belts, what up at the same time and just it doesn't feel right.

01:11:13.548 --> 01:11:18.054
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't feel like he climbed that now, you know, like he has overcome all that obstacles.

01:11:18.074 --> 01:11:25.643
[SPEAKER_00]: I know they're timing and like an intensity of it happening like right now because they need a guy.

01:11:25.775 --> 01:11:34.702
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm worried about this booking and I'm worried that they're just going to have everyone on an equal playing field on a day one of the post on a hoshi landscape.

01:11:35.063 --> 01:11:36.327
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they're going to start from there.

01:11:36.989 --> 01:11:39.075
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you it's not possible.

01:11:39.342 --> 01:11:40.524
[SPEAKER_03]: look anything's possible.

01:11:40.784 --> 01:11:55.883
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what they're thinking, but I don't think that that's the right move now is to, you know, it's no longer the era where you have Justin and Oki or even a ton of Hashi.

01:11:56.384 --> 01:12:06.717
[SPEAKER_03]: You'd need to spread it around, but right now they need this year to make one of those guys, and it suits us the best choice, and it's got to be done.

01:12:06.697 --> 01:12:11.384
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, the other guys can come up and start beating Fuji later and, and that's fine.

01:12:11.805 --> 01:12:22.141
[SPEAKER_03]: But right now, he's got to, he's got to be to Kesha, I wish, I wish he could be Tocada, you know, bring, Ocada back for, you know, like, um, um, Dominion or something.

01:12:22.281 --> 01:12:27.449
[SPEAKER_03]: I think would be phenomenal phenomenal phenomenal or, or Will Osprey or somebody like that.

01:12:27.849 --> 01:12:33.598
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think that that's where I think that they really need to, you know, he's just really got it because Tony's ass and just go like, look,

01:12:34.321 --> 01:12:42.632
[SPEAKER_03]: But one day for our big shows, we got to make this guy and you've got, you know, you've got three or four guys who really can help us.

01:12:42.792 --> 01:12:45.776
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's just one match, you know, can you help us?

01:12:46.097 --> 01:12:50.823
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, to me that's like, that's like one of the key things he needs to do because then they're not the little brother.

01:12:51.043 --> 01:12:55.529
[SPEAKER_03]: You got to make your world champion seem like he's on the level of all the other world champions.

01:12:55.650 --> 01:13:01.898
[SPEAKER_03]: And to me that's like, from a ton of how she's standpoint, I think that's actually the,

01:13:01.878 --> 01:13:05.882
[SPEAKER_03]: from a booking standpoint, I think that's the most important thing is to attempt to do that.

01:13:06.263 --> 01:13:27.565
[SPEAKER_03]: And obviously, within the country, which is more important, and this is far more important, it's just get those guys, figure out a way to get those guys over to the mass audience, whether it's publicity stunts, whether it's something, I mean, you can't be doing these, you know, what an oak you did, but you've got to do something,

01:13:27.545 --> 01:13:31.832
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, to just get them in the news and treat it like celebrities means hard.

01:13:31.912 --> 01:13:32.753
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really hard.

01:13:33.174 --> 01:13:34.336
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, anyone can say it.

01:13:34.356 --> 01:13:35.578
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost impossible to do it.

01:13:35.938 --> 01:13:37.501
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's that should be the goal.

01:13:37.822 --> 01:13:48.178
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's just to just to get, to get, I'll get him on TV shows, get him in movies and just get, get their personalities over to where the guy on the street goes, Oh, yeah.

01:13:48.258 --> 01:13:48.599
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:13:48.699 --> 01:13:50.582
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the world champion.

01:13:50.883 --> 01:14:13.971
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, the funny thing is, within Bushy Road, there's a company that's done that, Saia Kamatani has been great in mainstream television all year long, like having a long run on a panel show where they loved her and she got a match on national television against Hanan is right there on that show, which hadn't been done what a women's match and however many years on national TV, it can be done.

01:14:13.951 --> 01:14:17.635
[SPEAKER_01]: And when in Bushy Road, they manage to do it.

01:14:17.655 --> 01:14:19.577
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a good blueprint to take.

01:14:19.677 --> 01:14:23.782
[SPEAKER_01]: If Suji excels, it helps the Comitani's really good at that stuff.

01:14:23.802 --> 01:14:25.544
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's engaging in getting all that.

01:14:25.564 --> 01:14:29.629
[SPEAKER_01]: But if Suji shows a proclivity for that, and Makabe does a ton of those.

01:14:29.809 --> 01:14:32.152
[SPEAKER_01]: But Makabe is not the star of the Suji could be this year.

01:14:32.212 --> 01:14:33.313
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a blueprint for it.

01:14:33.393 --> 01:14:33.874
[SPEAKER_01]: It could happen.

01:14:33.914 --> 01:14:37.277
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, I mean, start of us having a phenomenal year.

01:14:37.558 --> 01:14:39.240
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a big part of it.

01:14:39.640 --> 01:14:41.342
[SPEAKER_01]: She's just reached that kind of acceptance.

01:14:41.795 --> 01:14:44.199
[SPEAKER_00]: I got one final question for you before I let you go, Dave.

01:14:44.219 --> 01:15:01.305
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned in shell like you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you,

01:15:01.690 --> 01:15:04.933
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, their height difference isn't all that much.

01:15:05.493 --> 01:15:07.115
[SPEAKER_00]: He looks on to macho math.

01:15:07.335 --> 01:15:11.418
[SPEAKER_00]: It's cocape Fuji now the age, the young age going forward in three to five years.

01:15:11.919 --> 01:15:17.844
[SPEAKER_03]: I would like him to be because quite frankly, of all of the guys, he's the most talented.

01:15:17.904 --> 01:15:30.415
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and yeah, I think he's young enough to wear, it's not impossible.

01:15:31.424 --> 01:15:42.946
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he's the guy in three, four years, and maybe that's your goal is go with Sujiin and Umino and we Mara and Rio Heo Heo heo right now.

01:15:43.828 --> 01:15:50.901
[SPEAKER_03]: And, but I really, this is gonna be Juida, but he's got to get, you know, he does have to get,

01:15:50.881 --> 01:15:52.224
[SPEAKER_03]: up to a certain size.

01:15:52.284 --> 01:16:00.304
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not, you know, it's not as necessary as it was before, but the reality is it's like, you know, you can just look at time, time, not just the blueprint.

01:16:00.745 --> 01:16:05.376
[SPEAKER_03]: At the same point in time, time, time, not she was never going to be the top guy who's going to be a great worker.

01:16:05.797 --> 01:16:07.000
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think

01:16:07.199 --> 01:16:15.916
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and people are more forgiving of size because it's all about entertainment now and so I think, you know, the, he's so talented.

01:16:16.257 --> 01:16:16.758
[SPEAKER_03]: I think so.

01:16:17.800 --> 01:16:20.164
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that that may be the right, the right move yet.

01:16:20.184 --> 01:16:23.931
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's the last junior heavyweight to actually, I mean, a real junior heavy.

01:16:23.951 --> 01:16:28.380
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they put Schingo to Coggy and Super Junior's when he first came in, but nobody thought he was a junior.

01:16:28.360 --> 01:16:38.027
[SPEAKER_01]: But Junior Heavyweight, I'm trying to think, is it go all the way back to Jiro Otani is the last guy that really was a junior junior who became a heavyweight heavyweight main eventer.

01:16:38.589 --> 01:16:40.233
[SPEAKER_01]: There aren't a ton of them.

01:16:40.253 --> 01:16:41.256
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, whoa, that's pretty.

01:16:41.742 --> 01:16:44.746
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, well, yeah, again, yeah, well, that's a good point.

01:16:44.766 --> 01:16:46.289
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he was a junior when he first came in.

01:16:46.869 --> 01:16:50.154
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it doesn't happen very often.

01:16:50.194 --> 01:16:53.479
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes a special guy, Otani and Osprey were fairly special.

01:16:53.920 --> 01:16:59.968
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, if you think about it, Will Osprey would never be dug guy because he was a foreign.

01:16:59.988 --> 01:17:08.020
[SPEAKER_03]: So of the Shinjaro, Otani, that... Otani was never considered the guy, but Fujianhani.

01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:13.685
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I mean, going back and forth from John was a junior heavyweight and he was the guy, you know, he was with yours.

01:17:14.790 --> 01:17:16.457
[SPEAKER_03]: So it can be done.

01:17:16.792 --> 01:17:21.484
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for taking time out during the holiday season to talk about Tana Hashie.

01:17:21.504 --> 01:17:22.526
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't talk to Hashie.

01:17:22.546 --> 01:17:25.473
[SPEAKER_00]: Really appreciate you taking time out to talk about him.

01:17:26.396 --> 01:17:29.965
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let him know that you did this, Jeremy.

01:17:29.985 --> 01:17:35.097
[SPEAKER_01]: Fine, Dave, the rest of the series are well taken out of Tana Hashie and tell you, he's been with us.

01:17:35.117 --> 01:17:36.962
[SPEAKER_00]: We're to find Dave, the wrestling observer.

01:17:37.062 --> 01:17:37.884
[SPEAKER_00]: He does the newsletter.

01:17:38.085 --> 01:17:42.415
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find him on Twitter at Dave Belkter, W-O-N. Don't fall for any fake Twitter accounts.

01:17:44.079 --> 01:17:45.162
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.