AEW's Blood & Guts vs. WWE's Underdelivering: All Out & Wrestlepalooza | Takedown

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[SPEAKER_01]: Last week, Paul, it was the calm before the storm, and today, it is the aftermath of the storm.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about the, I don't know, is this one of the bigger weekends in wrestling history when it pertains to AEW and WWE, like the competition?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think

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[SPEAKER_00]: it felt that way going in.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure coming out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We've had some weekends with, you know, shows with, you know, where both companies had a show, obviously all in weekend and, you know, there's been a few times when Dublin, nothing and the Saudis show have come on the same weekend, and there's been a few others.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I think this one definitely had the most hype.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's the first time they've had main roster paper view in a w paper view or PLE, whatever you want to call it, um, on the same day since what 88 or something.

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[SPEAKER_00]: nineteen eighty seven seven yeah rest of the three and uh... what was it knows uh... star kid eighty seven and sir uh... sir five or three which was created solely to go ahead to head with start that that one yet they still destroy many times about the you know the the cable companies and

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and five of them in the country, including San Jose, just like to air WCW and everyone else picked WWC.

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[SPEAKER_01]: See, a story that is not often told is when Vince McMahon,

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[SPEAKER_01]: had told the cable companies, you know, because Vince McMahon has threatened to pull his shows off of cable companies before, but Russell Mania 5, which he saw as like this big leverage event, right, Hogan versus Savage, like that's his big leverage.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He was trying to change

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[SPEAKER_01]: the split for what he was going to get for that show from the some of the paper view companies and what that split was.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So he was threatening like to hold out that show unless they changed the split.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And what the actual I don't actually know who was kind of in charge of this whole thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't whatever whoever's kind of running the whole

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[SPEAKER_01]: you run a show on this day against events and we will show your show and we will not show Vince's show interesting and so then what happens is is the eventually Vince comes down you know like the bully usually does when the bully gets slapped around you know he's he has to give up give up the fight and then but it it put the paper view company in a predicament

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because they're like, oh, man, now we don't want competition because it's going to split the revenue like we want to focus on this one show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So they said, well, what you can do, which was the the previous year that they did not want this to happen anymore, which was you can run your clash of the champions because the after the WrestleMania four scenario where they ran the original clash of champions against WrestleMania four, they didn't want that to happen

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[SPEAKER_01]: Turner to run a paper view going up against Russell Mania five.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They said, OK, you can actually run this as a clash of champions instead.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if you remember that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that was Claire steamboat right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That was Claire steamboat.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they booked that giant super dome building and they had like 3,000 people in there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, you know, that those matches and series is remembered fondly, but it definitely was not great business and the show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, before that, I think it was, it would have been maybe the March show, whatever, whatever was, it was in Chicago, WWE runs a house show the night before and they did the gimmick where they run it late because they want to exhaust the resting audience.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That hooking savage house show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: outdrew the paper view like by a lot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's I almost two.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think two to one maybe even.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's, I mean, that sounds about right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Probably would have had better ticket prices.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, WWF was a lot harder at the time, you know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't be the same as now, but maybe it wasn't Hogan's house.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it was Hogan's house, man.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it was like, you remember that when they ran that cage match around the loop where they did that, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, so it might have been that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, I'm, I'm just trying to remember it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They stopped either way, like, you're talking about WWF still, you know, wasn't till 91 when they crashed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you're still pretty hot in 1990.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So there's there's a little history there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about these shows the all out in Russell Palusa.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think what we're going to do instead of having three topics and you know giving our thoughts on those topics, I think we're just going to kind of talk about the pluses and minuses from our perspective of both of these shows and then we can argue them or agree or or whatever.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I also want to I can mention at some point I'll figure out when it it's appropriate, but I also watch the CML else show and I think there's some parallels to what we're going to talk about so when that when that's appropriate I'll bring it up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I think, you know, let's start positive.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Cause I have some negative things that I'm gonna bring up, but let's start positive.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And do you have a preference?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to start A, W, do you want to start?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you want me to give you some positives on the A, W show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I thought the wrestling on the show was good as, you know, tends to be with A, W. The main event was,

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, some people would probably call it match of the year caliber.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've got it like just a touch below that, but I mean, it was right up there with the best match.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I saw this weekend, which was MDF and Mystico.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there's people out there that would maybe think to MDF, Mystico match was better, but I saw it on Triller with bad commentary and that sound mixing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I do think that affects it and I'll also say like the

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[SPEAKER_00]: um i'm trying to think of how to put this um i think that they to their hardcore fan base they are delivering what that fan base wants to see um and uh and yeah i'm supposed to be positive on this segment but i guess just a yeah i'll just say i'm not sure that that's what i want to see but i think it works for their audience so

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[SPEAKER_01]: You are part of the audience, by the way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know, right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Your, you are also the type of sicko fan that Tony Khan is trying to cater to.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's some of the things that happen on in AEW that, you know, that there's an over abundance of things that, you know, maybe that you don't like, but at the same time, like, you know, you do watch more wrestling than most people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I will say, I'm not going to disagree with you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing I will say about catering to that audience, though, is the positioning because let's use a Star Wars reference.

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[SPEAKER_01]: WWE is the evil empire, right, WWE is Darth Vader, WWE is the emperor, and Tony Con positions AEW a little bit as like the rebels, as like the little engine that could.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now I don't see them like that because Tony Con is richer than everybody on the WWE side.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if he's more rich than area manual, I would have to, I don't know how much

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[SPEAKER_01]: The, you know, from that perspective, I don't see it that way, but from the size of the company and the opportunity and their inability to make a lot of these deals that WWE is making, yeah, I could see it that way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing about this is we were kind of talking about this off fair.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the AEW audience, and I would love, I wish I could figure out how much of the audience is this way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of them are disenfranchised former WWE fans.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And their former WWE fans for a multitude of reasons.

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[SPEAKER_01]: One, we went through this post 2000 and two all the way through the 20s.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was like the same product that was average for the most part.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and in some cases a little bit better and in some cases like really, really worse.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So when the status quo of pro wrestling is not excellent, you leave room for something to come along and it just took forever for AEW to come along.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's part of what this fan basis.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the second part is because of WWE's politics,

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[SPEAKER_01]: they can be a giant turnoff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you are looking at pro wrestling and going like, you know what, pro wrestling is already kind of in the mud as it is, just in general.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And somebody is over here trying to do it a little bit better with it, maybe a little bit moreality.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to give them my

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[SPEAKER_01]: the, you know, the crazy rich company, my money.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So there's also a kind of good versus evil in that perspective there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I don't see it that way because, you know, there, there are still things that if Tony Khan really wanted his wrestling to be on the up and up, he could be for unions, he could be for, you know, all of these different things that we've always,

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[SPEAKER_01]: been negative on Vince McMahon for Tony Khan could have flipped the switch on it and because he also has the money to do so.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that that is, you know, just playing those two sites together, uh, I think some of the fan base sees the sees it like that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and there is, you don't really need a reason to be a fan, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: As long as to you, you're like, this is what I wrote for and this is what I wrote against.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to it's going to sound a little bit like dismissive, but the strength of AEW to me as a viewer is also somewhat their weakness, which is the build to this show, I was just like I can't believe these are the angles you are running to compete head to head with WWE.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it lowered my expectation about what I thought the show was going to be.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And as is the case for most AEW shows, they sort of over-deliver on what I expect.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But the reason why they can over-deliver is because I think the build to these stories are often really just lacking.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And some of it happens on collision.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I know that's my fault for not watching, but

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[SPEAKER_01]: I, I, I'm not going to sit there and watch the B show and then all the sudden go, oh my gosh, it was actually an A show this week.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I got to catch it again next week.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, I know the trick.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I understand that it's mostly going to be a B show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the flip side of the WWE is I thought their builds was really strong for this show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The AJ Lee stuff was incredible, like just the some of the best stuff that they've done all year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: These Johnson and Brock Lesnar,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Smackdown videos were incredible.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Joe Tessator explaining and they weren't 100% truthful, but they were about as close as they would usually get on why on why Lesnar left, on why he came back and all that stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Those were incredible.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So their strength was in building up this show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then which I thought,

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[SPEAKER_01]: under-delivered like maybe even worse than a normal B-show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They had the star power for an A-show and to me that delivery was maybe even less or than some of those B-shows that I don't like.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, from that perspective, if you came into this show or both this weekend thinking like, man, we're here to have these two great shows, I don't think

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[SPEAKER_01]: and WWE's was just way worse than I had hoped.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just thought ESPN Netflix, like you remember how much effort they put into that first net flick show, whether you liked it or not, they made that first net flick show, feel like can't miss.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what the CSPN show should have been.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the only, like, really special thing on the ESPN show was probably the opening.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I really, really felt like that opening patch, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, it was interesting that they chose that to show Vince on screen for the first time, since he was ousted from the company.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hold Vince, though, is specifically the set of these version of Vince.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was 82, 82.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like they showed the WrestleMania Vince,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I saw the like the the goal was the good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The one Mr. No.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're using Andre and he's like a foot lower than him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, so, but I mean, they did like that's just step one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think and you know, getting people ready.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, no, I totally agree because at the end of the day, like I rated both these shows like if I'm giving them a great out of 10 and I had to do that on the post game show that I did with Kila, I gave them both the exact same score, but yet I had different feelings about both shows and they're based on again, your expectations going in can we be honest about something to is when you are watching these shows.

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[SPEAKER_01]: in a community like I try and watch because you know, I like to watch with the the discord folks and there is something that I actively dislike and because communication is communication, somebody will reply with, oh, that didn't bother me at all.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It makes me hate it more, yeah, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's like first off, you know, it was just my feedback like you didn't need

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you didn't you didn't need to necessarily give me yours, but because it's community you did, but it almost feels like there is a need to stick up for stuff that is not great as if to say, you know, yeah, you don't have to be so hard on these guys while at the same time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to give credit to the things that they do well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And those same folks may love it way more than I did, and champion it as like the greatest things and slice bread, which I go, yeah, I liked it, but it wasn't that good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so it makes me like like it less, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like like I think that's human feedback, but I also, so I said that to say to you,

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of what you have to do with the dynamite show is you are trying you and Jeff are trying to set realistic expectations and also analyze the show in a fair way while knowing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: that the hardcore AEW fans are just going to say, ah, you guys are wrong because of X, Y, and Z. And that is part of this element of trying to like be unbiased, trying to be like, what is this thing really?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Am I being too harsh on it?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Am I am I not being harsh on it?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because I was way harder on that WWE show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And some of it was because I

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just expected the like the all star of all star shows and didn't get it, but so anyway, I just that that's what's hard about doing a show like this is as we're reconciling our thoughts sometimes our thoughts are based on the people that we're talking to as well sure and and like.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like our show is interesting because like when like mind and Jeff's I mean because when I think our fan like our fans are our viewers are listeners expect a certain thing and I think we have a lot of listeners that feel the same way as we do Yeah, we like a W they're certain things about it we like to improve so they don't mind when we're hard on the show And honestly sometimes when I get too positive is when I hear

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know the feedback like oh that wasn't that good you know what I mean like so I'm kind of getting it that way and in between with me and Jeff

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm maybe like the good cop when it comes to like a W and he's more the bad cop, but I mean, but then you go into the discord and you know, everyone thinks I'm like this a w haters, something because you know, like I'll make a comment about the swearing and then it turns into like 8,000 comments, you know, like meanwhile it's just like I have these high expectations for a W and when they don't live up to them, I'm gonna point it out and that doesn't mean I hate

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, and if they want my money, then they need to live up to that because, you know, again, like, if they were just on a streaming service that I got for free or you're not that I got for free, but that I paid for already for other things like paramount or, you know, max if I was in there, you know, like, but that's the key to this thing though.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It, you know, at least I didn't pay 50 bucks for that, although now you're paying now you're paying 30 now you're paying more yeah, whereas with me and the people that I watch the show with, you know, we're in Canada.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we watch on Netflix.

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[SPEAKER_00]: How much do you get Netflix, by the way, I pay like the same as you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like 23 bucks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I would have Netflix whether WWE is honored or not me to.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so if if you know, if they move to, you know, something that I don't have.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, let's say Amazon prime.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, I have Amazon prime.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a bad.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I have most of the major ones, but let's say they move to some new, like Fubo, you know, like, and then they wanted 30 bucks a month for Fubo.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, I look at Fubo and I'm like, well, okay, they got movies, but I can get that here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I get this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I can get that there's nothing on here, but a WWE.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is it worth it to me to get WWE PLE's for 30 bucks?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that takes you to based on this show that we just saw no way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: like you know like that's not a $30 show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's not actually say this and I don't even know if we could be consistent on on this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But okay, so AEW was 50 bucks.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 40 if you already have HBO Max in the US, I don't know how that worked with you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No, I got it on Triller, but you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm doing this in the mindset is if I'd actually paid full price.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So 45 bucks

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so so you have a show eight of you show that's $50.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say the WWE show was just a $30 pay per view.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't have bought it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but based on the build, you have not based on the hype of 80.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know what, okay, okay, because I would have paid the $30.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know what, based on the build.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I might have bought this one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because back in the day of the paper views, I would pick and choose, and I would get many every year, I would get rumble every year, and I would get maybe one or two others.

20:08.183 --> 20:11.746
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, based on the build, I would watch the TV and it's like, okay, I like this one.

20:11.766 --> 20:13.468
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like, oh, it's Randy Orton, John Cena again.

20:13.508 --> 20:13.688
[SPEAKER_00]: Nope.

20:13.828 --> 20:14.368
[SPEAKER_00]: Not by that.

20:15.049 --> 20:15.850
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

20:15.890 --> 20:17.611
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, but, you know, this one?

20:17.651 --> 20:20.174
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would have got it, and I think I would have been disappointed.

20:21.223 --> 20:25.634
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because the next show is the Crown Jewel, the Perth show.

20:25.654 --> 20:26.978
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm being painted that.

20:27.459 --> 20:29.665
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's no real hook.

20:30.326 --> 20:30.406
[SPEAKER_01]: No.

20:31.506 --> 20:51.569
[SPEAKER_01]: They have these dream matches we get to see Cody and Seth fight for a cup and neither of their titles are on the line or whatever, then not a cup, the crown jewel title and same with Stephanie Vuckair and I know I was so fired up after the thing I'm like, oh, man, we're going to get Stephanie and Rhea and then he is Kia Kila on the honor post game shows like

20:52.009 --> 21:00.135
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we're getting the champion versus champion, like, yeah, it's definitely a real title like on the show.

21:00.836 --> 21:17.808
[SPEAKER_01]: And nope, yeah, it's probably no, it's probably going to be Jade and Stephanie, can you imagine I would I would keep it on Tiffany for this paper view, though I could see if they wanted to do Nayak, because then if you have Stephanie beating the giant monster, then yeah, and Nayak is good, like, you know, and and just

21:18.228 --> 21:19.449
[SPEAKER_00]: don't give her a microphone.

21:20.789 --> 21:23.951
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you got to see that smack down the stand up comedy routine.

21:24.091 --> 21:25.051
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so bad.

21:25.611 --> 21:37.297
[SPEAKER_01]: So so my point is, you know, I think people may see this ESPN service, similar to how they would see a paper view.

21:37.837 --> 21:38.117
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

21:38.377 --> 21:44.040
[SPEAKER_01]: So some of these folks like me, there's the seems like there's about 30 million of us right now.

21:45.520 --> 22:06.194
[SPEAKER_01]: We get it because we have the right cable system and then there's probably another 30 who don't yet but who I think ESPN hopes will so there's going to be a number of people who just get this thing for the sake of their cable subscriber base it's the other folks who don't have cable.

22:07.172 --> 22:20.078
[SPEAKER_01]: who are ordering this, because if you order ESPN, the app, the unlimited version for the college football and all that stuff, you may just unsubscribe after calls for calls over.

22:20.578 --> 22:27.101
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason why WWE is attractive to ESPN is because of the churn aspect.

22:27.181 --> 22:31.643
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have a pay per view every month, you have a hardcore WWE fan,

22:32.780 --> 22:37.433
[SPEAKER_01]: you would hope that that means those people specifically are not churning.

22:37.473 --> 22:41.002
[SPEAKER_01]: They're actually just going to stay with it because it is monthly content.

22:41.718 --> 22:55.500
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you have a show like you just did, there's gonna be some smarter buyers out there who may actually decide to pick and choose like you were saying that we used to do back in the day for those papers.

22:55.560 --> 22:56.861
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was mostly the point there.

22:57.141 --> 23:01.101
[SPEAKER_01]: But okay, I know, we're kind of already going off-tangels and off-tops, sorry.

23:01.321 --> 23:02.882
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what this show is about anyway.

23:02.922 --> 23:04.262
[SPEAKER_01]: So who cares?

23:04.342 --> 23:09.743
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, now give me a, you know, I'll add one more thing to my positive on the AW show.

23:10.873 --> 23:12.354
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm all out of positive too.

23:12.594 --> 23:15.256
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought the jungle boy, uh, luchesource thing worked really well.

23:15.596 --> 23:16.337
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

23:16.477 --> 23:17.037
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like it.

23:17.057 --> 23:18.118
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually hated it.

23:18.218 --> 23:18.619
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was.

23:18.639 --> 23:19.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I hated it too.

23:19.419 --> 23:19.899
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's work.

23:19.939 --> 23:22.882
[SPEAKER_01]: Why does all hell work for the live crowd?

23:22.902 --> 23:23.282
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

23:23.302 --> 23:24.062
[SPEAKER_01]: I would admit that.

23:24.182 --> 23:25.824
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I always say is.

23:26.544 --> 23:44.760
[SPEAKER_01]: If we just look at those 20,000 people in the live crowd, we are specifically not giving a voice to the other 100,000 or so people watching it on television and I don't know what those 100,000 people thought so I can't even

23:45.420 --> 23:45.800
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't even.

23:45.820 --> 23:47.281
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm hoping in no sense.

23:47.442 --> 23:49.083
[SPEAKER_01]: So it made no sense.

23:49.443 --> 23:51.204
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a step backwards.

23:51.585 --> 23:56.108
[SPEAKER_01]: It was an admission that Jack Perry's turn was not a good idea.

23:56.248 --> 23:58.610
[SPEAKER_01]: And the stories around it were not good ideas.

23:59.330 --> 24:01.112
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like saying, okay, we give up.

24:01.172 --> 24:01.932
[SPEAKER_01]: We screwed up here.

24:01.952 --> 24:02.473
[SPEAKER_00]: We got to go back.

24:02.493 --> 24:06.455
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is at the same time as you're doing the acclaimed doing the exact same thing.

24:06.876 --> 24:07.216
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

24:07.236 --> 24:12.120
[SPEAKER_01]: So I made a joke that let's see if this joke goes over well on you.

24:12.140 --> 24:13.200
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it went over very

24:14.321 --> 24:15.702
[SPEAKER_01]: in in in the house of Dave's.

24:15.762 --> 24:22.525
[SPEAKER_01]: I said that Tony cons announcement was going to be that Swarfe Strickling Keith Lee we're getting back together as a tag team.

24:24.546 --> 24:40.853
[SPEAKER_01]: So what did we just see like we just Welcome back to 2021 Which was a great time to go back to by the way for a w i thought but my point is is that when you only see what works for the live crowd you're basically saying

24:41.577 --> 24:43.739
[SPEAKER_01]: the television viewer is non-existent.

24:43.959 --> 24:45.300
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just don't think we should do that.

24:45.380 --> 24:47.782
[SPEAKER_01]: That is one thing that is unique about processing.

24:47.802 --> 24:52.405
[SPEAKER_01]: You're entertaining a live audience and you're entertaining an audience watching at home.

24:52.566 --> 24:56.729
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's not forget about those people because yeah, I love Jack.

24:57.709 --> 25:23.031
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Jack more than most and some of it is because of who his pops was and and how I got to see him on the indie scene and being around him at WrestleMania 35 weekend when his pops had just passed away and I'm just like feel it my heart is aching for this kid who's just hanging out with us all of those reasons I love this guy and I just thought that that was such a

25:24.720 --> 25:32.168
[SPEAKER_00]: It was almost like in the admission of failure, but again, like it, I mean, you've got to work better literally chanting luchesaurus before he even came out.

25:32.268 --> 25:35.171
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I can't deny that part of it.

25:35.512 --> 25:38.635
[SPEAKER_01]: I will admit some of it is also that I just hate luchesaurus as a wrestler.

25:39.114 --> 25:40.614
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I know why I don't like that music.

25:43.635 --> 25:48.836
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny because Kila said, oh, your brain is going to melt after the latter match.

25:48.896 --> 25:51.737
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I'm like, what am I, what am I, what am I in for?

25:51.777 --> 25:52.577
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that happened.

25:52.617 --> 25:52.977
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like.

25:56.698 --> 25:57.978
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so my positive.

25:58.478 --> 26:01.079
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is not even necessary the match, though.

26:01.099 --> 26:02.999
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the match among it.

26:03.299 --> 26:07.680
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the match even though I didn't like any of these silly stipulations all night long.

26:08.929 --> 26:10.490
[SPEAKER_01]: Mighty Mark briskos win man.

26:10.810 --> 26:12.371
[SPEAKER_01]: I was there with him.

26:12.392 --> 26:18.556
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved him getting the W. I thought M. J. F was fantastic.

26:19.677 --> 26:24.160
[SPEAKER_01]: To do that match after the match that he had, which I haven't seen yet, by the way, on Friday night.

26:25.000 --> 26:30.424
[SPEAKER_01]: M. J. F is the most complete performer on NAW in my opinion.

26:32.306 --> 26:34.107
[SPEAKER_01]: His ability to do everything.

26:34.852 --> 26:38.876
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you could say the same thing about hangman, but MJF blows them away as a promo.

26:39.437 --> 26:45.923
[SPEAKER_01]: Hangman's probably a little bit better of a wrestler, but I think MJF is closer to hangman as a wrestler than hangman is closer to MJF as a promo.

26:46.924 --> 26:53.891
[SPEAKER_01]: And so some of it was just me going like, you know, at the same JF kid is amazing, but the other thing was like,

26:54.952 --> 27:04.120
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the fan service that I was waiting for was was mighty mark brisco getting that W finally after all these weeks and weeks of weeks of seeing him lose.

27:04.980 --> 27:10.885
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that was that was like the thing where I was like, okay, at least I got this, you know, on this show.

27:11.005 --> 27:11.766
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was one.

27:11.786 --> 27:12.727
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, no, let's go.

27:13.999 --> 27:14.319
[SPEAKER_00]: negative.

27:14.399 --> 27:14.699
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

27:14.979 --> 27:25.243
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so, um, I, I will just say like overall, um, I don't like some of the directions that they're going.

27:25.663 --> 27:27.824
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that they're by design.

27:27.844 --> 27:34.666
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so I don't expect it to change, but so you had the length of the show number one.

27:34.966 --> 27:38.227
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, five hours for a main card is ridiculous.

27:39.067 --> 27:39.227
[SPEAKER_00]: And

27:41.248 --> 27:42.909
[SPEAKER_00]: That was strategy.

27:42.949 --> 27:43.649
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I know.

27:43.850 --> 27:50.053
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also, you know, there's this mindset out there that, oh, well, we got to give the fans their money's worth.

27:50.694 --> 27:58.358
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there's a point where it becomes a negative like at after a point like K you got three hours a great wrestling.

27:58.378 --> 27:59.018
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.

27:59.038 --> 28:01.160
[SPEAKER_00]: I got my money's worth maybe a little half hour.

28:01.940 --> 28:02.962
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe even an hour more.

28:04.224 --> 28:09.892
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you get to five, all of a sudden, now you're cutting into my time, and I want some of that money back.

28:10.232 --> 28:10.633
[SPEAKER_00]: So you got that.

28:12.370 --> 28:36.310
[SPEAKER_00]: you've also got this leaning into this more adult themed, but it's not even that because I don't want to give the impression that I'm like a prude that is offended by language because I mean I watch movies, I watch TV shows, you know, I watch the boys, I love the boys and V, you know, like on, you know, and that shows filthy, the peacemaker, awesome, you know, but it's filthy.

28:37.130 --> 28:51.020
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, this show like you had announcers like this was my big turn off like Daniel Bryan dropping an F bomb or sorry, Brian Danielson dropping an F bomb in the middle of the match and then Taz and Brian both you know dropping S bombs

28:52.080 --> 29:09.345
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, I get it and when it's happening multiple times, it feels like it's a directive and it may be that this is Tony saying you know what we're going to cater to our hardcore fans and we want you to just talk like you would normally talk so if that means swearing that's fine.

29:10.105 --> 29:15.406
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you're doing a professional broadcast, I watch UFC, UFC's on paper view.

29:16.106 --> 29:17.347
[SPEAKER_00]: Their announcer's aren't swearing.

29:17.687 --> 29:21.108
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes a fighter swear after the matches, that's different.

29:21.268 --> 29:26.969
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you're hyped up on adrenaline, you just had a literal fist fight with somebody you might let out of swear.

29:27.389 --> 29:35.811
[SPEAKER_00]: But when it's a backstage segment and it's being taped and assuming scripted on some form and you've got someone just swearing for the sake of swearing,

29:39.752 --> 29:43.195
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where, like, I'm just, you kind of lose me.

29:43.596 --> 29:54.886
[SPEAKER_00]: And then some of the, we mentioned the skit that they did at the beginning, you had the acclaimed thing, you had that moxley, Darby thing with, you know, trying to admire.

29:55.286 --> 30:01.909
[SPEAKER_01]: Except he didn't, like it, it, look, I mean, Moxley's the way Moxley's rear end jump.

30:01.949 --> 30:03.750
[SPEAKER_01]: That's first thing like he caught him on fire.

30:03.770 --> 30:11.854
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe, but then it was so non-sensical because you had, the skit started with Marina screaming at a cameraman, to hit this right-foker, no.

30:12.214 --> 30:14.315
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they go to Moxley and he's like, get away from here.

30:14.335 --> 30:16.096
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, what are we doing?

30:16.156 --> 30:17.136
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is this?

30:17.817 --> 30:20.018
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, so it was just like, yeah.

30:20.058 --> 30:21.739
[SPEAKER_00]: So that, all that stuff, like, if it was,

30:22.757 --> 30:31.042
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, like if he just put wrestling out there and video packages like I would have liked to show a lot more it would have been shorter and we wouldn't have had all this bad content.

30:31.665 --> 30:52.212
[SPEAKER_00]: But because of that, it brought the show down a little bit for me, so where to where I would have given it like maybe like a seven and a half or an eight on just on the wrestling, but the rest of it took it down so much, I gave the show a six so you know like that that's just kind of where I was at so and at that point like when you're giving me a six and you're asking me to pay 50 bucks.

30:53.713 --> 30:55.734
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe next time I don't want to pay the 50 bucks.

30:55.754 --> 31:07.017
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll just watch Dynamite, which has great matches every week and you know, and I like to show most of the time and and I don't have the pay 50 bucks or I'll find a Dave that I can go watch it at.

31:07.757 --> 31:14.659
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it would be interesting what my life would be like if I didn't get to watch all these shows at Dave's house.

31:15.060 --> 31:20.281
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, but here is the counter

31:24.381 --> 31:29.756
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the filthiest wrestling show in the history of overall wrestling, but in the history of U.S.

31:29.817 --> 31:30.178
[SPEAKER_01]: wrestling.

31:31.137 --> 31:41.442
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, ECW, maybe, but I mean, again, that's indie, you know, in a sense, did they have as many, I was not a giant ECW fence.

31:41.482 --> 31:44.383
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Joey Stals wasn't swearing during commentary.

31:44.403 --> 31:46.784
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just talking about that stipulation and the blooding.

31:47.004 --> 31:48.765
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, no, and we had a lot of that.

31:49.045 --> 31:51.466
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, no, I watched all those ECW shows.

31:51.506 --> 31:52.406
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot of that.

31:52.647 --> 31:52.847
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

31:52.927 --> 31:56.348
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you have a show, where

31:58.572 --> 32:04.806
[SPEAKER_01]: Moxley and Darby are, you know, the whole storyline is worked around Moxley's ear.

32:05.862 --> 32:11.884
[SPEAKER_01]: and biting the ear and forking the ear and stabbing moxie in the forehead with the fork.

32:12.184 --> 32:18.866
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if John moxie was hearing me give this criticism, he would call me a word that rhymes with wussy.

32:19.406 --> 32:21.367
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and what's he like, don't buy the shelf.

32:21.387 --> 32:21.907
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't like it.

32:22.507 --> 32:29.969
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is not me speaking as, yeah, I know, as me, this is me speaking as part of the audience that that year.

32:30.110 --> 32:34.611
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even know that the match itself didn't even bother me that much, because it was like, I was expecting it.

32:35.011 --> 32:46.411
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you have that much blood and guts should the swearing offend you because it doesn't offend me that's a thing like it doesn't offend me or

32:47.478 --> 32:49.958
[SPEAKER_00]: frustrate you from a professionalism standpoint.

32:50.239 --> 32:51.919
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that, that, I think so.

32:52.239 --> 33:01.140
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you can have the hard core brutality, like UFC, you know, like people are bleeding and they're, they're literally pounding the hell out of each other.

33:01.160 --> 33:04.121
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're not using forks and all that, but they're not swearing.

33:05.641 --> 33:08.202
[SPEAKER_00]: If, again, like, I'll watch GCW for instance.

33:08.262 --> 33:09.662
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and this may sound hypocritical.

33:10.042 --> 33:12.962
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, but when I'm watching a GCW show, the announcers are swearing.

33:13.402 --> 33:14.783
[SPEAKER_00]: You're seeing a lot worse than what we

33:16.423 --> 33:20.107
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also GCW, and I'm not paying $50 for the show.

33:20.187 --> 33:26.233
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm paying $8 for Triller Plus, which is a whole month that gives me infinite indie wrestling that I want to see.

33:26.814 --> 33:29.937
[SPEAKER_00]: I would not pay for a GCW standalone show.

33:30.437 --> 33:39.326
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'll watch a GCW standalone show, and I would watch an AW pay for you, you know, eight times a week, nine times on Sunday, you know, if it's free.

33:40.207 --> 33:44.271
[SPEAKER_00]: but if you're asking me to pay, then I expect the standard of some sort.

33:44.632 --> 33:46.053
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe I'm a hypocrite?

33:46.093 --> 33:46.413
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

33:47.675 --> 33:55.443
[SPEAKER_01]: But I guess my point is, is if they have already numbness, if you will a lot of this craziness that happens,

33:57.193 --> 34:03.400
[SPEAKER_01]: the swearing and the lack of professionalism or whatever, that might just be part of the game too, too, then.

34:03.820 --> 34:05.062
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, mute to that stuff.

34:05.202 --> 34:05.842
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it could be.

34:06.023 --> 34:06.543
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what?

34:06.563 --> 34:07.865
[SPEAKER_00]: There might be people out there that love it.

34:08.125 --> 34:16.434
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I saw people that were so fired up because of Danielson's commentary and the way he was like jumping up and down and screaming and this match is awesome.

34:16.474 --> 34:17.395
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm listening to some like,

34:17.515 --> 34:32.942
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, dude, you know, like any, and he's like talking about the neck and every single move they did, it was like hangman was going to be paralyzed and it's like yeah, that's great to sell that, but then at some point I'm not buying what you're selling because hangman just gets up and, you know, hits a dead eye and wins a match.

34:34.063 --> 34:42.827
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, like the match was great, I loved it, but it was probably maybe like 15 minutes too long, but you know, like it was a great match.

34:43.974 --> 35:00.863
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess my negative would be in what they did with the surprises because I want to I want to give them credit because one of the great one of Tony cons best booking things was his ability.

35:01.937 --> 35:19.312
[SPEAKER_01]: to let his fans know that a surprise was coming and maybe they even kind of knew or maybe they would make them think and they would fantasy book with these surprises where I mean, the obviously the best one was Adam Cole and Daniel Bryan, Bryan Daniels and coming out on the same day, right?

35:19.352 --> 35:25.197
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the maybe the best one ever in the history of me watching pro wrestling.

35:26.258 --> 35:41.998
[SPEAKER_00]: that was also their life so that probably that probably had some of the north of the city that everyone forgets that was he was there to uh... or he came out he did what he attacks moxley something yeah and it and nobody was like it was total like that was back before he was shown up all the time yes so

35:43.415 --> 35:46.379
[SPEAKER_01]: There was an attempt on this show to do something similar.

35:46.439 --> 35:48.481
[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned the jungle boy thing.

35:49.122 --> 35:58.434
[SPEAKER_01]: There was an attempt to have a surprised title change where I think in Tony Khan's mindset was,

36:00.216 --> 36:15.624
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do a surprise title change and it's going to be stat and people are going to be like, oh my gosh, and it's going to go all over Twitter and there's going to be, you know, undertaker guy faces memes all over Twitter, which is not what happened, by the way, I think that was what he thought was going to happen, but it didn't happen.

36:23.092 --> 36:24.452
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a more than a bit of even did.

36:24.992 --> 36:27.213
[SPEAKER_01]: WWE, yeah, try after promising.

36:27.313 --> 36:38.056
[SPEAKER_01]: So I give credit for the attempt, but I think a negative on that show was that those things kind of came off flat and maybe were even misreads.

36:38.556 --> 36:48.938
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of a positive and a negative at the same time, but when I saw people online in our discord being so excited for those things.

36:49.018 --> 36:51.039
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, are we excited?

36:52.117 --> 36:55.019
[SPEAKER_01]: because they happened or we excited because they're good.

36:55.360 --> 36:58.582
[SPEAKER_01]: Now in some cases, we may not even know if they're good for another month.

36:58.622 --> 37:00.123
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we'll see what happens.

37:00.203 --> 37:01.805
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is not against that.

37:01.965 --> 37:03.506
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have anything against that.

37:03.586 --> 37:05.288
[SPEAKER_01]: I just question the timing of it.

37:05.708 --> 37:10.071
[SPEAKER_01]: I want it to, I want to see if stats going to get that title and they're going to get behind her.

37:10.632 --> 37:13.134
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to see a proper build to that title.

37:13.434 --> 37:18.378
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I understand what some have said might have been Tony strategy, which is sometimes

37:21.100 --> 37:26.264
[SPEAKER_01]: that your fans are a little bit disinterested because they feel like they know it's going to happen.

37:26.424 --> 37:27.785
[SPEAKER_01]: And I agree.

37:27.945 --> 37:30.668
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel that way when I watch most wrestling shows.

37:31.168 --> 37:38.474
[SPEAKER_01]: So in that way, maybe that is helpful to kind of break up the monotony of what fans think that they know.

37:38.814 --> 37:42.637
[SPEAKER_01]: And then maybe it maybe it was a positive maybe it doesn't matter.

37:43.358 --> 37:44.318
[SPEAKER_01]: Just for stat,

37:50.343 --> 38:19.232
[SPEAKER_00]: better than she was because the person who they actually built up for that moment was Tecla and they didn't give it Tecla So no and and like Stattlander like to the point where I don't even think she's mentioned the title like at all like in, you know In this current run like maybe if we go back to three months, she might have but You know that this whole she's never won the title and her last title shot was like four years ago like that all kind of came out of the blue Like it was never part of this story and then it they just kind of threw it in and

38:19.912 --> 38:31.224
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, at the end because I think maybe, you know, they were kind of dropping seeds, but, um, like, again, I have nothing to get stat, um, you know, she's, uh, over to a certain segment of the fans.

38:32.125 --> 38:40.795
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there's a story that they can tell Jeremy, actually Jeremy Feinstein laid out a, you know, a potential storyline for her that would take you into all in.

38:41.435 --> 38:44.296
[SPEAKER_00]: and her and Willow, you know, in a big tile match.

38:44.377 --> 38:47.238
[SPEAKER_01]: But do you want to see that match and have Willow not win?

38:47.878 --> 38:48.398
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you won't.

38:48.438 --> 38:49.579
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think Willow would win.

38:49.659 --> 38:50.780
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Willow would win.

38:50.820 --> 38:53.141
[SPEAKER_01]: Willow would win if they ever done a one month or.

38:53.521 --> 38:54.601
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you meant next year.

38:55.122 --> 38:55.922
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, next year.

38:56.002 --> 38:56.763
[SPEAKER_00]: Next year's all in.

38:56.803 --> 38:57.563
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:57.603 --> 38:58.143
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

38:58.523 --> 39:01.525
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean, you would maybe Willow wins the Owen again.

39:02.145 --> 39:03.786
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, she gets the shot at Statt.

39:03.906 --> 39:07.228
[SPEAKER_00]: And that would require them to build Statt up for the next eight months, which

39:08.106 --> 39:21.215
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see, you know, I could happen and Tony, you know, I imagine something's going to happen with her, you know, maybe she's going to have another character change or tweak or something and probably lose her mind a little bit and, you know, and then come back.

39:21.335 --> 39:35.784
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm I'm interested again, I'm not I was just like I said I wasn't as down like if they were going to do this, I thought Teflah would have made more sense, but again, I'm not saying like I'm not sure there was even a right answer because they didn't really build.

39:36.825 --> 39:39.545
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't have you believing any of those three we're going to win.

39:39.866 --> 39:45.727
[SPEAKER_00]: So just shocking your fan base and giving them a surprise title change.

39:46.827 --> 39:48.267
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not necessarily bad thing.

39:48.287 --> 39:49.527
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not necessarily a good thing.

39:50.247 --> 39:51.067
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just something they did.

40:07.130 --> 40:15.316
[SPEAKER_01]: was the Stephanie of a care match, I think everyone sort of universally agrees that that was a really good match though.

40:17.678 --> 40:23.883
[SPEAKER_01]: Not quite the classic, I think that they could have done and whether it was time or just placement.

40:25.184 --> 40:27.025
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have liked to have seen

40:29.264 --> 40:36.730
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, there was, there was a, a little bit of magic that EO has in a lot of her matches that I didn't really feel in this match.

40:36.750 --> 40:57.065
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when EO and Rhea are in the ring together, she's got that baby face magic where she connects with the crowd and I thought that maybe because it was Stephanie or because it was two baby faces whatever reason, like I didn't get that part of it, but I still thought it was really good and more so.

40:59.177 --> 41:15.111
[SPEAKER_01]: I really wonder what they can do with Stephanie Vickier to take her to the next level because she's obviously got the look and got the in-ring that is designed for a superstar.

41:16.813 --> 41:18.174
[SPEAKER_01]: What is their missing?

41:18.234 --> 41:19.615
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of it is gonna be promo.

41:20.336 --> 41:24.800
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there anything else that would be missing for her not to take it to the next level?

41:26.026 --> 41:29.568
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't think necessarily, I don't think missing is the right way to put it.

41:29.608 --> 41:37.011
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's something that we haven't got a chance to see yet at whether or not it happens is another story entirely.

41:37.051 --> 41:40.773
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think she needs like that moment like, um, like Rhea.

41:42.153 --> 41:44.794
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, headlining a show in Australia.

41:44.954 --> 41:45.955
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that was huge.

41:46.655 --> 41:48.696
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and you built a whole paper view around her.

41:49.356 --> 41:59.740
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then later on like with, you know, coming back and having that moment with Dom and live, you know, where she, you know, like the places blew up and like at that point, it took her to another level.

42:00.040 --> 42:07.063
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think what she actually needs is a storyline that people can sink their teeth into and get into right now.

42:07.123 --> 42:09.564
[SPEAKER_00]: She's just a good wrestler, a great wrestler,

42:11.265 --> 42:17.869
[SPEAKER_00]: and want to see more of, but there's not that storyline that you're invested in on another level.

42:18.069 --> 42:19.350
[SPEAKER_00]: So we need to have that.

42:20.030 --> 42:21.691
[SPEAKER_00]: She needs to interact with people.

42:21.791 --> 42:27.854
[SPEAKER_00]: She needs to be maybe in a stable or feuding with a stable, whereas right now she just goes out there and has matches.

42:28.495 --> 42:31.917
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's no personal grudges at all that she's had.

42:32.597 --> 42:33.498
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how does she

42:38.786 --> 42:40.647
[SPEAKER_01]: Now their their criticism is way different.

42:40.667 --> 42:52.930
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, J. Uso became a top guy by winning the royal rumble, but he was, you were kind of wondering if they were ever going to go with it, because you could see, you could see his a cent.

42:53.690 --> 42:59.172
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of it was, they chose to feature him more, and some of it was literally his connection with the crowd.

43:00.052 --> 43:22.038
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if Stephanie, because I see that same connection with the crowd in a different way, but I wonder if their like stamp of approval is all that it needs for her to go to that level or if I mean, can I can in today's wrestling and today's WWE, I should say, will they let

43:23.825 --> 43:38.432
[SPEAKER_01]: the women's star kind of be the top person because one of the reasons why Becky was able to get there going back seven or eight years or whenever that was is because Roman was lacking.

43:39.911 --> 43:57.929
[SPEAKER_01]: If Roman was on fire, like the way that he was, you know, last two years, she would have never got there because they would not have let her because they rea, rea might have got there if Roman wasn't right there, so that that's also the other thing which is we still have this inequality.

43:59.047 --> 44:14.981
[SPEAKER_01]: around how men's wrestling and women's wrestling is booked based on who can be stars and who's just going to be supporting cast like I yeah like AJ Lee for instance like if if Stephanie had a storyline.

44:15.942 --> 44:19.146
[SPEAKER_00]: that people could get invested in like their invested in AJ Lee.

44:19.166 --> 44:28.117
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you combine the amount people care about AJ Lee with the resting ability of Stephanie, you'd have a female Roman Reigns.

44:28.678 --> 44:31.501
[SPEAKER_00]: But the problem is, I don't know how that happens.

44:31.861 --> 44:32.022
[SPEAKER_00]: Like

44:32.822 --> 44:38.507
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be really, really difficult to give, you know, she got, you know, she English isn't her first language.

44:39.188 --> 44:40.469
[SPEAKER_00]: She's relatively new.

44:41.349 --> 44:45.593
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's just not that personal deep-seated grudge that she has with anyone.

44:46.013 --> 44:48.035
[SPEAKER_00]: So that needs time to establish.

44:48.255 --> 44:53.699
[SPEAKER_00]: And the more time it takes, the more you kind of get slotted at a certain level in the fan's eyes.

44:54.780 --> 44:56.762
[SPEAKER_01]: And going back to the guy who,

44:58.023 --> 45:05.066
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, puts together all of these stories, triple H, both evolution pay per views when people had asked if they're going to do another one.

45:05.126 --> 45:06.567
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, well, we'll see.

45:06.647 --> 45:08.667
[SPEAKER_01]: They have to force it to happen or whatever.

45:08.687 --> 45:11.589
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like no dude, you need to force it to happen.

45:11.689 --> 45:14.630
[SPEAKER_01]: You are the one who is writing all of these stories.

45:14.730 --> 45:22.573
[SPEAKER_01]: You can put more attention on some of these stories rather than, you know, some of these other stories that have to do with men.

45:22.953 --> 45:26.855
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't agree at all that this has anything to do with.

45:28.036 --> 45:29.157
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, who is hotter?

45:29.337 --> 45:31.479
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, who do you want to be hotter?

45:31.639 --> 45:33.240
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is the whole trick here.

45:33.260 --> 45:36.563
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if they do like a princess, they do a PLE from Mexico.

45:37.063 --> 45:39.986
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, you'd probably headline the show with Stephanie Vicarre.

45:40.466 --> 45:41.387
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and see what happens.

45:41.467 --> 45:42.728
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, what are they going to?

45:42.788 --> 45:44.409
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they going to headline with Dominic Mysterio?

45:44.650 --> 45:44.810
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

45:45.330 --> 46:13.097
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I might have a line with Dominic, yeah, so, but I mean, I'm here for the ride, like I'm, you know, I think that woman has, you know, like the potential is there to be something really, really special and she's still like she's less than a year, I think, into her WWE career, right, it was like just over a year ago, she wrestled with Mercedes, yeah, so yeah, so I mean, yeah, we're, you know, it's just come a long way in a short period of time.

46:13.577 --> 46:15.137
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, you like to show more than I did.

46:15.177 --> 46:16.718
[SPEAKER_01]: What was something positive?

46:17.678 --> 46:20.239
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the funny thing is, I don't think I did.

46:20.259 --> 46:27.281
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just like, I think my feelings about it were better because of the my personal experiences.

46:27.361 --> 46:35.083
[SPEAKER_00]: But a positive, I thought, like, um, I thought that the, um, I thought the mix tag.

46:36.063 --> 46:36.884
[SPEAKER_00]: really delivered.

46:38.125 --> 46:43.168
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there might be people out there that don't agree with that, but I don't care.

46:43.468 --> 46:44.229
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not them.

46:45.049 --> 46:46.150
[SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoyed it.

46:46.450 --> 46:48.231
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was long match.

46:48.251 --> 46:51.874
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was surprised when I saw it was 29 minutes because it didn't feel like that.

46:51.894 --> 46:53.635
[SPEAKER_00]: It felt like 15 to 20 maybe.

46:54.015 --> 46:56.577
[SPEAKER_00]: So when it held our attention the whole time,

46:57.197 --> 47:04.844
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that they build the spots really well, you know AJ's not the greatest in the ring, but she didn't need to be that that was my flaw with that match.

47:05.165 --> 47:06.066
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's fine.

47:06.106 --> 47:11.971
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a legitimate criticism, but offense was so bad in some cases.

47:12.111 --> 47:18.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Like yeah, she turned back the clock more than 20 years on women's wrestling with some of those strikes that she threw.

47:19.678 --> 47:22.341
[SPEAKER_01]: and that was my fear about this match, right?

47:22.622 --> 47:23.763
[SPEAKER_01]: I said it from day one.

47:23.783 --> 47:25.746
[SPEAKER_01]: I said this thing is great.

47:26.206 --> 47:27.448
[SPEAKER_01]: This story is great.

47:27.848 --> 47:34.876
[SPEAKER_01]: My fear is when AJ gets into the ring that she's not going to be able to wrestle like the women wrestle today.

47:35.497 --> 47:37.660
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't only that.

47:38.747 --> 48:00.760
[SPEAKER_01]: Her early tarantula spots, she screwed them up, her, you know, trying to do the stuff on, and this is really the difference in the A, A, W, and W to be show, you had Beth Phoenix or Beth Copeland getting a stuff pile driver, a spike pile driver, right, which was, you know, depending on what you thought, it was.

48:01.760 --> 48:07.624
[SPEAKER_01]: But at least at the end of the day, it was kind of like a realistic thing, whether or not it was in good taste, you know, that's up to you.

48:07.644 --> 48:08.544
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it looked good.

48:09.105 --> 48:21.072
[SPEAKER_01]: In this one, you had CM Punk working with Becky and Seth working with AJ in the most non-sensical ways possible because they don't want to have that violence.

48:21.592 --> 48:23.454
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it just looked like they were.

48:24.512 --> 48:27.053
[SPEAKER_01]: play fighting and I didn't want to see that either.

48:27.093 --> 48:34.998
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's no right answer for me and either of these because I did like some of the double team moves They did like they the timing on them was was really well.

48:35.018 --> 48:44.163
[SPEAKER_01]: You could tell they've worked together like they must have practiced some of these moves I don't know man when you're when you're trying to put this move on Seth and this dude's like six foot two and you're like

48:44.303 --> 49:06.588
[SPEAKER_01]: five one or however tall ages I was like come on set is doing all of the work here and it's not your there's no mistake happening set is actively putting these moves on so that's the stuff that bothered me yeah I I'd like the AJ character I'd like their dynamic with the four of them but when AJ faces Becky.

49:08.366 --> 49:12.809
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, I know I don't know how I'm going to be able to get behind AJ in this match.

49:12.849 --> 49:18.073
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be just like just when they were wrestling, I was, I was out of it.

49:18.153 --> 49:19.153
[SPEAKER_01]: It took me out of the match.

49:19.193 --> 49:31.381
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to have to be like a lot of like it's going to have to be 90% of Becky on offense and AJ just selling because anytime she's on offense, yeah, like you said, it's going to be tough because you're not going to believe it.

49:31.401 --> 49:33.623
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if she gets a flash pin because I assume she'll win.

49:34.628 --> 49:40.932
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, and then if I still think they're eventually going to end up with Nikki and AJ, and that could be really rough.

49:41.653 --> 49:46.376
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I do think that that's a destination point.

49:46.816 --> 49:52.040
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll also say like watching the two shows back to back and I watched the AW show first obviously, and then

49:52.560 --> 49:58.404
[SPEAKER_00]: and then the WWE, and then the AW, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the WWE sandwich there.

49:58.744 --> 50:05.988
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I say like the production and the crowd and just the visual presentation, WWE blew them away.

50:06.368 --> 50:09.890
[SPEAKER_01]: They're getting that sense that they are hot for that product.

50:09.950 --> 50:13.292
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I watch it and I go, how?

50:13.973 --> 50:17.635
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't just mean the crowd, like the crowd is one thing, but I just mean the overall, like the look,

50:18.214 --> 50:37.305
[SPEAKER_00]: the the the the video quality like the sound quality like everything like it just looks great and I don't I didn't sense that with with like when the show started there there was like smoke in the building and you talked about year the one the WWE video package to start the show looked first rate.

50:38.079 --> 50:53.397
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Edge and Christian in the, you know, talking to Wendell Clark, which is fine for, you know, a small part of that audience, but to the majority of people watching was a swing in a miss like and bubble and even in even the trailer park.

50:53.717 --> 50:54.919
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like that stuff.

50:56.055 --> 51:17.817
[SPEAKER_00]: To the like to the large majority of that crowd, they probably all said, who is that and who is that and that dude in the green and we're in a belt like I still think that was the same guy that was the same guy was it the same guy I think it's the same guy I think I had no idea so yeah and I think they assume that everybody knew major league.

51:18.977 --> 51:21.961
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what it felt like to me from the very beginning.

51:22.342 --> 51:30.032
[SPEAKER_00]: But the scary thing is I'll bet you if if they did that show in WWE and Toronto Adam would have been pushing to do that there too.

51:30.492 --> 51:32.715
[SPEAKER_00]: They would have told them no.

51:33.116 --> 51:35.999
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they would have said yeah, if you get

51:37.280 --> 51:39.982
[SPEAKER_01]: uh, Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lamue.

51:40.502 --> 51:40.802
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

51:41.462 --> 51:41.683
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

51:42.063 --> 51:44.544
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe Eugene Levy, you know, and right.

51:44.864 --> 51:45.084
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

51:45.104 --> 51:45.565
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

51:45.845 --> 51:46.025
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

51:46.045 --> 51:48.786
[SPEAKER_00]: And then yes, or at least the very least we're going to put bubbles on there.

51:48.826 --> 51:52.928
[SPEAKER_00]: They probably would have had them on TV like about four times before that to tell everybody.

51:52.968 --> 51:53.709
[SPEAKER_00]: This is bubbles.

51:54.029 --> 51:54.229
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

51:54.549 --> 51:55.470
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to get the show.

51:55.930 --> 51:56.150
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

51:56.370 --> 51:58.411
[SPEAKER_00]: But you just randomly show up backstage.

51:58.431 --> 51:58.691
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

51:58.731 --> 52:01.072
[SPEAKER_01]: Was bubbles is, bubbles is show wherever his

52:06.655 --> 52:12.678
[SPEAKER_00]: He's reaction was me like he just Let's go let's get out.

52:13.259 --> 52:15.180
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he won't be part of bubbles.

52:15.440 --> 52:21.603
[SPEAKER_01]: Let let let let me go to my main negative with our WWE which is the listener and scene a match

52:22.093 --> 52:22.413
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

52:22.533 --> 52:22.714
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

52:24.315 --> 52:32.400
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I'll explain how I watched it originally because I tweeted and I didn't actually go back on the tweet, but I kind of disagree with my own tweet.

52:32.941 --> 52:38.785
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was watching Hangman and I was watching Kyle Fletcher and then the WWE show started.

52:38.805 --> 52:41.967
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had my phone and I wanted to see what was going on on there.

52:41.987 --> 52:44.229
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to see the open, I want to see the presentation.

52:44.449 --> 52:46.610
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's almost impossible to watch two matches at once.

52:46.890 --> 52:47.011
[SPEAKER_01]: So.

52:47.791 --> 52:52.534
[SPEAKER_01]: Eventually, I was able to turn off the WWE show once I saw most of scene in Lesnar.

52:52.994 --> 53:02.039
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I when I started watching it, I was like, this reminds me of an old timer's game, which was not a compliment, by the way.

53:02.820 --> 53:05.641
[SPEAKER_01]: In old timers games, you get terrific nostalgia.

53:06.002 --> 53:10.944
[SPEAKER_01]: But then when you start watching and you see these guys hobbling around, it kind of makes your heart hurt a little bit.

53:11.845 --> 53:13.446
[SPEAKER_01]: And as I'm watching Brock Lesnar,

53:15.070 --> 53:22.928
[SPEAKER_01]: heave and heave and turn purple and turn red and and look like he's about to explode I was like oh man this is not good

53:23.971 --> 53:36.357
[SPEAKER_01]: And these are two different people, but Cody versus Sina look like John Sina turned back to clock and Lesnar versus Sina looked like the John Sina that we were watching during his heel run.

53:37.257 --> 53:43.340
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I disagree after rewatching the match on the big TV that it was in Old Timers game.

53:44.000 --> 53:47.962
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was just more the design of the match than anything else.

53:49.022 --> 53:49.943
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're telling me,

53:52.229 --> 53:58.314
[SPEAKER_01]: This fan base finally gets behind John Cena's ultimate baby face.

54:00.356 --> 54:06.881
[SPEAKER_01]: After this horrendous heel turn, and this is how we're going to, but I don't care if he wins or loses, right?

54:06.901 --> 54:10.905
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not really about that, but he gets destroyed in this match.

54:12.120 --> 54:26.967
[SPEAKER_01]: Like just he looked like a jobber in this match for the most part, he got a couple of offensive moves in and then Brock sat up and just beat up beat his ass, you know, very quickly thereafter.

54:29.271 --> 54:35.112
[SPEAKER_01]: You're telling me that now that we only have these, you know, I don't know how many times scene is gonna be around.

54:35.632 --> 54:38.873
[SPEAKER_01]: But seven appearances and like three matches left.

54:39.253 --> 54:45.255
[SPEAKER_01]: But now, are we selling the idea of beat down John Cena?

54:45.295 --> 54:54.777
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is who we're getting behind now is the guy who just got steamrolled by 50 year old Brock Lesnar and not quite 50, but, you know, like,

54:56.390 --> 55:04.977
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I was just, I just could not believe what I had saw based on what we know that they have to sell for the rest of the year.

55:05.078 --> 55:23.413
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if you saw this, but Brian Alvarez on Wrestling Observer Radio said, the only thing that makes sense is if Brock is seeing us last opponent in Washington, DC, and then Cena overcomes him to to send the crowd home happy and his entire career is wrapped in a bow.

55:24.584 --> 55:26.338
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Brian Alvarez said today.

55:27.233 --> 55:31.556
[SPEAKER_01]: that he actually doesn't think that they're going in that direction, that this was just a one off.

55:31.796 --> 55:32.497
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.

55:32.517 --> 55:36.200
[SPEAKER_00]: So I, okay, that that first part surprised me because I had the same feeling.

55:36.240 --> 55:46.628
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not think my impression after this is that Brock is going to have a really big match with a really big star, whether it be Seth, Cody, Punk.

55:46.808 --> 55:54.374
[SPEAKER_00]: One of those three, based on the the involvement of Paul Hayman, I think it's a Roman for like one of those four.

55:55.466 --> 56:05.831
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and so that's why the match he had to win and I thought that the match itself like I mean the match was exactly what I was expecting.

56:07.082 --> 56:18.826
[SPEAKER_00]: Although like I just either one of them could have won like it was going to be move move move move move move move boom pins over like I was expecting to be under 10 minutes and just a bunch of big moves and whoever is going to win was going to win.

56:20.086 --> 56:28.069
[SPEAKER_00]: I was not expecting and we got this a lot on the show and it's actually kind of a positive but maybe kind of a negative two was the the.

56:28.989 --> 56:53.996
[SPEAKER_00]: the wins on the show were all like definitive and like people were hitting their move and winning and you are almost expecting like something else to have like they're going to kick out we're going to have to have another finisher or there's going to be interference or you know and people would just hit their finisher and win and it was like we don't often get that in WWE so that maybe a positive maybe a negative I think in the EOS Stephanie Matt for instance

56:57.429 --> 57:05.716
[SPEAKER_00]: And when she didn't show up and then the match was over, it was like, oh, yeah, okay, that was a great match, but you me while we weren't ready for the finish because we didn't see Oscar.

57:05.756 --> 57:16.546
[SPEAKER_00]: This is part of the problem with training your audience that, you know, nothing ever happens until we get interference and I think the same thing happened when seen a Brock he hits him with an F5 and he pins him.

57:17.180 --> 57:18.761
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, oh, wait, what?

57:19.382 --> 57:21.263
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're not going to pick them up and hit them with three more.

57:21.303 --> 57:23.064
[SPEAKER_00]: Or you've seen this not going to kick out.

57:23.244 --> 57:23.805
[SPEAKER_00]: And then hit them.

57:24.125 --> 57:25.586
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it was in that sense.

57:25.626 --> 57:28.008
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can see where you would think, yeah, you'd look like a job or.

57:28.028 --> 57:29.188
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, and now here's more.

57:29.429 --> 57:37.834
[SPEAKER_01]: Because again, what WWE is great at is in their build-up to make you want to see what they're selling.

57:39.415 --> 57:41.115
[SPEAKER_01]: John Cena's promo on Monday night.

57:41.175 --> 57:53.459
[SPEAKER_01]: I think was longer, or just as long as this match was, which was a fantastic, baby face, never say die, I will never quit promo.

57:54.199 --> 58:01.581
[SPEAKER_01]: So to see what he said on Monday and the result on Saturday, it didn't, it didn't match for me.

58:01.601 --> 58:01.681
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

58:02.661 --> 58:04.802
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, yeah, what was his intro?

58:06.910 --> 58:08.873
[SPEAKER_01]: John Cena's intro when he came.

58:08.993 --> 58:10.615
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, the greatest of all time.

58:10.875 --> 58:13.439
[SPEAKER_00]: The 50 kids.

58:14.199 --> 58:14.740
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my god.

58:14.760 --> 58:20.287
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the people I was with were wanting wanting Brock to f5 those kids.

58:20.568 --> 58:25.053
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, but my first thought was it would have been nice if there were some.

58:25.874 --> 58:53.625
[SPEAKER_01]: kids that yeah different races like that would have been I think that would have been the better explanation of who John C are all right yeah they were all meant to look like him kind of like the that one memorable MTV music awards yeah m&m with m&m and all the slim shady guys I get it but still john scene as a peel isn't just to white kids like john scene as a peel yeah is to all kinds of different kids so that that kind of worked me a little bit but

58:54.545 --> 59:10.196
[SPEAKER_01]: So you give us these two things and then what the actual result is is the exact opposite of what you told us and I'm guessing it is for heat like everything and resting for heat to set up the heat for this thing you don't have to set up Brock

59:11.455 --> 59:13.216
[SPEAKER_01]: to have more heat than he actually does.

59:13.336 --> 59:14.797
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm talking literal heat.

59:15.017 --> 59:16.398
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got legitimate heat.

59:16.438 --> 59:18.420
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think they're trying to transfer that heat.

59:19.741 --> 59:21.882
[SPEAKER_00]: They did the same thing in TNA with Tessa Blanchard.

59:21.922 --> 59:29.948
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they take some real heat that people have and then you try to make it part of the storyline, even though you could just lean into the actual heat.

59:30.688 --> 59:32.911
[SPEAKER_00]: So and I don't I don't want them to lean into.

59:32.931 --> 59:33.531
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.

59:33.632 --> 59:39.158
[SPEAKER_01]: I know to that Brock thing because there was a there was a sign on camera that that said enough.

59:39.739 --> 59:43.383
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's that's really that's a little bit of a lesser point.

59:44.687 --> 59:56.115
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think if we're telling stories and we're leading our viewers in the right direction and it's working and people are really getting behind this, to just go up, here's the big bad, and John Cena's going to have to do this all.

59:56.195 --> 59:59.397
[SPEAKER_01]: I just like, okay, like you're not understanding what this thing is.

59:59.678 --> 01:00:01.339
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not realizing

01:00:01.959 --> 01:00:04.102
[SPEAKER_01]: all the goodwill that that you've done here.

01:00:04.743 --> 01:00:06.545
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll see what happens with John.

01:00:06.565 --> 01:00:07.807
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see what happens with Brock.

01:00:09.289 --> 01:00:13.395
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless Brock gets a real story, I'm less interested in what he does.

01:00:13.475 --> 01:00:16.859
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sick of the hired gun Brock because there's nothing to that.

01:00:16.899 --> 01:00:18.081
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no depth to that.

01:00:18.661 --> 01:00:20.641
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a prize fighter, right?

01:00:20.681 --> 01:00:23.822
[SPEAKER_01]: He just comes in and he has these matches and then he bailed out.

01:00:23.962 --> 01:00:25.722
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's something obviously with Paul.

01:00:25.762 --> 01:00:29.203
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is why I hope they tell the Paul game story because they did not tell it.

01:00:29.483 --> 01:00:35.744
[SPEAKER_01]: They undid his last run just at the snap of fingers and they haven't said anything.

01:00:35.784 --> 01:00:38.264
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to give him a lot of time to mention it.

01:00:38.384 --> 01:00:39.545
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he turned on Brock.

01:00:40.365 --> 01:00:40.705
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:00:41.105 --> 01:00:41.325
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:00:41.725 --> 01:00:42.525
[SPEAKER_00]: He totally did.

01:00:43.045 --> 01:00:44.785
[SPEAKER_00]: So on then him saying we got to talk.

01:00:44.885 --> 01:00:47.426
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're like, okay, well, does he want payback?

01:00:48.035 --> 01:00:48.415
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

01:00:48.535 --> 01:00:50.156
[SPEAKER_00]: Just wants to watch his manager back.

01:00:51.036 --> 01:00:52.296
[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever.

01:00:52.556 --> 01:00:56.578
[SPEAKER_01]: So that would be my main negative for that show in addition to just.

01:00:58.058 --> 01:01:06.000
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I thought that I thought just about every match under delivered to my expectation, including the main event, which I actually liked the main event.

01:01:07.001 --> 01:01:07.921
[SPEAKER_01]: But it felt rushed.

01:01:08.561 --> 01:01:10.602
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it felt it felt like.

01:01:12.122 --> 01:01:19.363
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't think there are any real surprise pins or any, like, soprano, like, you know, just a straight match.

01:01:19.824 --> 01:01:34.626
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, every, every, like, everything on that card, including EO Stephanie could have been on TV, like, if EO Stephanie had been on TV, it would have been like, oh, you know, one of the better TV matches a year, but it wasn't like it was like something that you would only get on paper view.

01:01:34.866 --> 01:01:37.207
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we've had matches like that on TV this year.

01:01:38.167 --> 01:01:43.269
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, it was, it was a really good episode of Rars SmackDown, but it definitely was not a PLE.

01:01:43.790 --> 01:01:43.990
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

01:01:44.770 --> 01:01:45.530
[SPEAKER_00]: I would agree with that.

01:01:45.550 --> 01:01:46.271
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

01:01:46.311 --> 01:01:47.291
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you have anything?

01:01:47.971 --> 01:01:48.131
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it?

01:01:48.171 --> 01:01:48.292
[SPEAKER_00]: No.

01:01:48.332 --> 01:01:52.573
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, for the one thing I wanted to say was in terms of like the CML thing I brought it up at the beginning.

01:01:53.154 --> 01:01:58.076
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I actually bought the CML else show and I watched it because I was really interested in an MDF mystical match.

01:01:58.596 --> 01:02:00.157
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's kind of like.

01:02:01.457 --> 01:02:13.222
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a cross between the A, W, and W, E, because they have a streaming service that you have to pay, I don't know what the cost is 30 bucks a month, I think, for like YouTube.

01:02:13.262 --> 01:02:15.863
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like where you get all of the stuff, all of the stuff.

01:02:16.243 --> 01:02:19.944
[SPEAKER_00]: But in this case, it was just a one show on Triller and it was 1999 U.S.

01:02:20.145 --> 01:02:20.705
[SPEAKER_00]: I paid 27 in Canada.

01:02:24.306 --> 01:02:33.792
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought I've heard so much about these Saturday CMLL shows and this is like supposed to be one of the biggest ones of the year because it's the anniversary show.

01:02:34.632 --> 01:02:38.455
[SPEAKER_00]: And other than the MJF mystical match, I was pretty disappointed.

01:02:39.135 --> 01:02:42.997
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if it was something that I got to watch for free, I would have been probably happy with it.

01:02:43.037 --> 01:02:44.198
[SPEAKER_00]: But the fact that I paid 27 bucks,

01:02:45.959 --> 01:02:49.862
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a chance in how I will ever subscribe to that CML YouTube channel.

01:02:50.222 --> 01:02:57.366
[SPEAKER_00]: And I probably won't buy another of these shows unless maybe there's an angle I hear about like MJF Mystico because that delivered.

01:02:57.446 --> 01:02:58.167
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, don't get me wrong.

01:02:58.227 --> 01:02:59.768
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not, I don't have buyers or more.

01:02:59.788 --> 01:03:00.929
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I enjoyed the show.

01:03:01.269 --> 01:03:01.929
[SPEAKER_00]: It was worth the 27 bucks.

01:03:03.250 --> 01:03:23.653
[SPEAKER_00]: But it also I don't think it did a good sell job for their regular monthly service that they provide because I think you need it to do more outside of MGF Mystico to show people, hey, this is what we're all about or either that or it's this is what they always show and the people that watch it just are, you know, they like it and help a lot more knited and I don't know what she is.

01:03:24.927 --> 01:03:39.736
[SPEAKER_00]: It also may be because I watched on Triller and the people watching on the CML regular feed with the regular announcers and with the audio not mixed badly, maybe it's a better, maybe it comes across a lot better on that service.

01:03:39.776 --> 01:03:41.837
[SPEAKER_00]: But for me, they failed in delivering.

01:03:41.877 --> 01:03:50.102
[SPEAKER_00]: So in that sense, it was kind of like the WWE SPN thing where you had people doing a trial, which is what I did with Triller and they failed.

01:03:53.577 --> 01:03:58.422
[SPEAKER_01]: you are not a regular CMLL fan though you do follow a lot.

01:03:58.462 --> 01:03:59.223
[SPEAKER_00]: I follow it.

01:03:59.363 --> 01:04:02.927
[SPEAKER_00]: I used to watch it weekly backboat.

01:04:03.027 --> 01:04:12.196
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say 12 13 years ago and then it just wasn't available and then it was only available in Spanish and I don't I'm not that's a bit of a deal breaker for me.

01:04:12.216 --> 01:04:13.197
[SPEAKER_00]: Plus the 30 bucks a month.

01:04:13.898 --> 01:04:25.644
[SPEAKER_01]: So if they had more American wrestlers or would it just be kind of explaining to you where all the stories were going on, I don't know if you want to see it.

01:04:26.084 --> 01:04:33.087
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted like I just thought it didn't come off great like so I think maybe they need a better audio mix and they probably need a better announcers.

01:04:34.588 --> 01:04:36.169
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, or you know like.

01:04:37.685 --> 01:04:48.960
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm maybe like if I would have watched it like maybe I if I would have watched it in Spanish, you know, even though I don't understand what they're saying because I knew most of the wrestlers, but there was maybe like.

01:04:50.517 --> 01:04:52.479
[SPEAKER_00]: or wrestlers on the whole show, I wasn't familiar with.

01:04:52.959 --> 01:04:57.904
[SPEAKER_00]: So wasn't that I wasn't familiar with the wrestlers or the storylines, it was the commentary, it was not good.

01:04:58.905 --> 01:05:09.754
[SPEAKER_00]: And the audio mix was terrible, like there were times when they literally went mute, or there were times when they were playing the music, and they cut out the crowd noise, and they cut out the announcers, and they only played the music.

01:05:09.874 --> 01:05:10.055
[SPEAKER_00]: It was

01:05:10.815 --> 01:05:14.836
[SPEAKER_00]: really bad and then I think even the crowd like at times like it was very muted.

01:05:15.296 --> 01:05:21.118
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that it was something with the audio mix and maybe because it was probably like the last minute deal that they threw together.

01:05:21.138 --> 01:05:27.959
[SPEAKER_00]: It was Veda Scott and Samurai Del Sol doing the commentary and some guy named Miguel Castro who I don't know.

01:05:27.979 --> 01:05:31.040
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I asked everybody and he said that he's there.

01:05:32.123 --> 01:05:32.963
[SPEAKER_01]: normal U.S.

01:05:33.043 --> 01:05:34.964
[SPEAKER_01]: announcer, but I didn't know if they didn't U.S.

01:05:35.024 --> 01:05:35.484
[SPEAKER_01]: announcer.

01:05:35.664 --> 01:05:36.885
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't either show him.

01:05:36.965 --> 01:05:38.045
[SPEAKER_00]: He was just kind of there.

01:05:38.165 --> 01:05:46.789
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he wasn't a positive or a negative, but Sammy was definitely a negative and Veda, she tried, but she's not strong enough to carry a broadcast.

01:05:48.667 --> 01:05:56.390
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and which is an interesting thing because you act I think you would you like the majority of those triple issues that David have he's done.

01:05:56.450 --> 01:05:58.771
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did I did, but again I didn't pay $27 for them.

01:05:58.791 --> 01:06:12.797
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're all So if this show would have been free on YouTube I'd probably would have had that was a fun, you know two and a half hours like yeah That was the other thing it it was a quick show to watch like I I think it took me just under two hours to watch So that was a positive

01:06:14.210 --> 01:06:29.287
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, next week we will be back to our normal sort of run down here with three topics that we just kind of argue back and forth this one was a little special because of the weekend that that we got to see last week so and I guess we have AEW.

01:06:30.576 --> 01:06:35.478
[SPEAKER_01]: They are building stories and matches for Russell Dynasty.

01:06:35.618 --> 01:06:36.438
[SPEAKER_01]: Is Russell Dynasty?

01:06:36.819 --> 01:06:37.379
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that the, yeah.

01:06:37.639 --> 01:06:38.719
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, October 18th.

01:06:38.759 --> 01:06:38.999
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.

01:06:39.420 --> 01:06:46.803
[SPEAKER_01]: And then WWE is doing so for their crown jewel in Perth, which is going to be another afternoon show because of the time change.

01:06:46.863 --> 01:06:47.263
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm guessing.

01:06:47.951 --> 01:06:52.094
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you have season in Australia this weekend too, but they're doing it the normal times.

01:06:52.194 --> 01:06:53.696
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess you have seized powerful enough to say not.

01:06:53.876 --> 01:06:56.118
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to go Sunday morning.

01:06:56.318 --> 01:06:57.379
[SPEAKER_00]: The sport fighters.

01:06:57.399 --> 01:07:01.082
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, waking up in the like, you know, canelo.

01:07:02.403 --> 01:07:02.703
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

01:07:03.063 --> 01:07:06.586
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to remember where he fought the fight before Crawford.

01:07:07.147 --> 01:07:09.508
[SPEAKER_01]: It may have been in Saudi Arabia, but

01:07:10.430 --> 01:07:17.932
[SPEAKER_01]: He, I think the fight went into the ring, which would have been his time, like probably like two or three in the morning.

01:07:18.872 --> 01:07:23.273
[SPEAKER_01]: So he had to like train his body to like wake up at midnight.

01:07:23.893 --> 01:07:28.274
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, and I think that Australia show, I think it starts at six a.m.

01:07:28.514 --> 01:07:29.014
[SPEAKER_00]: there time.

01:07:32.675 --> 01:07:36.158
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's not too bad for the main eventers, but in the morning, but it's the crowd.

01:07:36.878 --> 01:07:38.079
[SPEAKER_00]: You're getting up at 5 a.m.

01:07:38.099 --> 01:07:38.779
[SPEAKER_00]: to go to a show.

01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:39.880
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, of course.

01:07:39.900 --> 01:07:40.621
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:07:40.901 --> 01:07:41.962
[SPEAKER_01]: That'd be kind of interesting.

01:07:41.982 --> 01:07:47.686
[SPEAKER_01]: Like imagine that you were going to a wrestling or MMA show.

01:07:48.386 --> 01:07:49.647
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was an important one.

01:07:49.687 --> 01:07:50.628
[SPEAKER_01]: So you really wanted to go.

01:07:51.367 --> 01:07:53.468
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're like, yeah, we started eight.

01:07:54.048 --> 01:07:58.331
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how different would that experience be watching a show at like 8 a.m.

01:07:58.371 --> 01:07:59.632
[SPEAKER_01]: versus like 7 p.m.

01:07:59.692 --> 01:08:00.072
[SPEAKER_01]: or something.

01:08:00.192 --> 01:08:01.613
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I wouldn't do it.

01:08:02.113 --> 01:08:11.858
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, if I had to, like if it was something like, gee, you know, GSP and Connor or something like that, because I'd go, yeah, but yeah, it would be, I don't think I'd be 100% you have your coffee with you.

01:08:12.339 --> 01:08:14.900
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, all right, we'll be back next week.

01:08:15.260 --> 01:08:18.582
[SPEAKER_01]: So for Paul, I am double G, see you when we see you piece out.