AEW VS. WWE: Hogan's Legacy, PPV Wars & The Future of Growth | Takedown

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we are back on to take down after taking a couple of weeks off while Paul was on vacation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So actually Paul made me realize something originally when I thought about doing this show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking audio only and then we'll just cut up the clips for video.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then even when we would sign off, Paul would still wave to the camera, even though the video wasn't going all the way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, you know what?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just also put the full video out there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So starting today with today's show, you will also be able to see the whole episode on video.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a much shorter listen than most of the shows on our network because we're kind of getting in and getting out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We got three topics.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then, uh, you know, we're going to give our thoughts and we're going to move along.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted to mention Scott E. Wrestling put up a bonus show this morning for Yoshi fans.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is already in the feed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You can check that out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Also this weekend, Saturday night, Jeremy, finestone and myself.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do the post game show for night one of summer slam.

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[SPEAKER_00]: May have a special guest may not

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's all dependent on this person's time and whether they're actually going to the show or not.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then Sunday night, Kila and Scott young will do their version of the rap after Summer Slam night two.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of content this weekend and Paul, welcome back.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you've been doing the dynamite show, but welcome back to the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, it's great to be back.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And man, I was, I was on the road for like eleven days and it feels like a month, you know, I mean, in the big topic we have today, you know, like, I mean, it happened four days ago and it literally feels like it was at least two weeks ago.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's just, yeah, you haven't had to chance to talk about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So why don't you go in on it and we are talking about the passing of Hulk Hogan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: John the Rock and I had our thoughts on

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[SPEAKER_00]: uh... the fight game podcast on a four w on line i kind of went through a timeline beginning of when i became a fan of hogan through kind of just today or when he had passed and uh... on wrestling observer david and i talked about he had to write that story in like fourteen hours or something like that uh... which is incredible but uh... that's Dave and so now you know you you've mentioned many times that you did not get into wrestling before hogan

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[SPEAKER_00]: you kind of came in a little bit before him and weren't even really that big of a fan of his.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like it's it's weird because I grew up in an AWA town and so I my first memories of watching wrestling are like late seventies and that's before Hogan and then we actually moved to the west coast in nineteen eighty and we were there for three years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like eighty to eighty three and I have like no memories of watching wrestling when I was out there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I know like it's possible we didn't even have a TV like our family was really poor at the time and like I just don't really remember and then when I came back

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[SPEAKER_01]: I guess Hogan was probably already out of the WWE or out of the WWE.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And like I remember seeing Rocky three and seeing Hulk Hogan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And as far as I know that might have been like the first time I saw him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then the next time I would have saw him would have been like Saturday night's main event, you know, and then when he was co-hosting Saturday live, which I watched every week,

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[SPEAKER_01]: And at the time we didn't get the WWF, we got a WA, but once a month we would get this random wrestling show that would show up instead of Saturday live and it was weird.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, but like the bottom line as far as Hogan was, for whatever reason I just, you know, I guess at the time I was like, fourteen, thirteen, fourteen and

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't really gravitate to Hogan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of liked the bad guys more.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like I like teen in from the WWE and like Jesse and I like Roddy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so like when Roddy was like that, remember that Andre, the giant thing, I even liked Andre.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, so I was like, I cheered when Andre beat Hogan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like for the title, like it, you know, so I was like kind of a weird fan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't really until like the end of U.O.

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[SPEAKER_01]: when I got into Hogan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then again, in his when he came back to the WWF slash E, I can't remember what it was at the time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In like, two thousand two, I was into him then just in nostalgia thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I never really like disliked him like tremendously.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just was never really into him for whatever reason.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of always like the faster past action guys and

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think I would have liked him in the AWS and I really think I would have liked him in Japan from what I thought I'm back and watched.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I also like I'm well aware of the history and and you know and obviously you can you know what's happened since he wrestled like that's obviously tarnished as legacy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder how much people even know about all that stuff like I was surprised like my kids had no like they know Hogan's a wrestler and that's it like they didn't know any of that stuff I mentioned it and then I like who.

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know like and and and there like my oldest is like thirty four I would have thought for sure he would know and he didn't know and then my younger ones like I remember I posted in the discord my daughter sent me a thing uh condolences on your loss whatever on Thursday

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I didn't even like them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That was an interesting one because people were reaching out to me in like a very sad way because they know that I cover wrestling and I felt bad because I immediately didn't go, oh, thank you, you know, yeah, I was like

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, if you knew the stuff that he had done, you know, I'm not quite sure if you would have sent that response, but you know, but they were really like thinking about me and my relationship to Hulk Ogan and people who really know me knew that, you know, when I was a little kid, I was just a giant Hogan guy all the way up until, you know, my teenage years for sure because when

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[SPEAKER_00]: uh when he became the leader of the NWO and he dropped the leg on savage like I was like so fired up I was like this guy is back because he was struggling you know for a little while there as a baby face so now I want to get your thoughts like here's kind of the real take of this conversation which is I was hearing from people

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[SPEAKER_00]: who were very frustrated that Tony Khan hadn't publicly said anything about Hulk Hogan since he had passed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they were wondering if AEW was going to do anything about on their show for Hulk Hogan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I saw that Tony Shivani did do a short thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And Tony Shivani is the right guy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He worked with Hogan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, even Jim Ross, Jim Ross's time does not cross with Hogan very much.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You wouldn't necessarily have Ross do it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You could have had sting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sting would have probably been the best one, but sting is not on their television all the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Gold dust doesn't really cross over dust and roads isn't cross over with Hogan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know who else could have done it outside of Tony Shivani or sting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that was the right

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[SPEAKER_00]: person to do it, and he said, you know, what he said, which was kind of, you know, he, he was sort of political, probably in the right way, and, but he wasn't, he didn't do the, you know, the triple H thing on WWE TV, where Hogan was bigger than life, and we're going to wrap our arms around him, and he's a good brother and all that stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a little bit of a different take.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to get your thoughts on whether or not you thought that was the right tact for AEW to take with the whole Kogan news.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if I, I wasn't even, I wasn't even, I didn't even know what WWE had done.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't watched, like I'm still catching up.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I didn't open the show with then Bill Salute.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Triple H had everybody out on the stage, even the Wyatt's in character, which was so goofy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then he did the whole thing about Hogan was the first sports entertainer to be sports entertainer and X Y. And then they played this like three to five minute video with real American and they tried to encapsulate his career highlights in this one video.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I always have a problem when triple H is the guy because I just find him so disingenuous and I'm like okay triple H like when Hogan beat you for the title in two thousand and two how much of a fan were you really of this dude.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But anyways, he's the guy he's their true guy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The only other guy would be the only other guy would be undertaker.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't want him to do it either.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, and Shawn Michaels could, but that would be as bad as triple.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That would be bad.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you have Dwayne, but you don't have Dwayne because Dwayne would do it in the biggest way possible.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It would also be a little bit disingenuous.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Dwayne's run didn't really cross over that much either, but

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[SPEAKER_00]: So anyways, that's how WWE did it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And AEW did it their way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What was your thoughts on how they did it?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what I would have expected from WWE.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And there's not much else you could do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You could make a case for not doing anything based on the comments and everything and how his appearance went over the last time he was on TV.

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[SPEAKER_01]: As far as AEW, I was actually pleasantly surprised with what they did.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I pleasantly is the wrong word to put it because I, like I said, I didn't really care.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't expect anything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was, but I was surprised that they went as positively as they did and put him over as much as they did to the point where I was almost wondering if it might have been like a TNT slash WBD like saying, Hey, this guy was important.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You got to mention them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because they over and over again mentioned the network and how we put WCW and the Monday night wars on the map and all that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't so much even about Tony's personal relationship or lack thereof with Hogan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was more about his importance to the wrestling industry and specifically to pro wrestling on TNT because he couldn't even mention his history in New Japan which their partners with and he's got a long history in New Japan and was very important to the creation of the IWGP title as Jeremy and Steve mentioned on their show on Thursday.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, they could have done that, and they didn't, and again, they didn't need to, and I didn't expect it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They almost Tony Shibani could have just said, you know, our condolences go to the family and friends of Hulk Hogan, rest in peace, brother.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like they could have been it, and that would have been fine.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they would deserve no criticism.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So as far as I'm concerned, like going as far as they did,

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[SPEAKER_01]: You could criticize him if you want for being too positive, but if you're on the other side saying they should have done more, I think that's ridiculous.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have the video outside of if they could have licensed some from New Japan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they don't have any video on him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He had nothing to do with their show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He leans differently politically than the majority of their audience does.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm completely fine with the way that they did it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a question for you, Garrett.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The negative reaction that Hogan got on the Netflix premiere.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if we've ever even talked about this much.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it had more to do with him being racist or with him being so pro-Trump or a combination?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Probably being more about him being so pro-Trump.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I've been doing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Then being racist, but I do think

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[SPEAKER_00]: fans are very, uh, what would you even call it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Fans can be lemmings sometime.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you remember at WrestleMania thirty seven, when they were out of the pandemic, and he and Titus El Niel were hosting WrestleMania.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He got booed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was almost the even before that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There was a part of the fan base and the wrestlers included where they would just kind of make fun of him a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You remember the rock and also in that WrestleMania thirty.

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[SPEAKER_00]: When he was getting names wrong and stuff and they were kind of along with the joke.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Hogan Hogan as a pro wrestling character has not been cool.

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[SPEAKER_00]: in quite some time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so he was kind of like the cartoon character that you would kind of just make fun of.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then when it comes out in the gocker stuff that he made this these comments, and you know, when he made those comments, I think it was he was like right at the tail end of his last WWE run.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So this is all through TNA when the stuff had already previously happened.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it, you know, so that stuff existed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, by the time that it comes out that those those comments were made on video and there's proof.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Then you had to like he's like kind of persona non grata to a large amount of the audience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, there are some people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen them online.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen them on Instagram.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you want to take away this man's legacy, FU, this and that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why I told Dave, I think I said it on Dave where two, two things can be equally true.

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[SPEAKER_00]: A,

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was a giant superstar and you can't take that away from him and be.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was probably a really bad person based on our morals.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you also can't take that away from him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So both things can be true.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And but that takes nuance to think of it that way and a lot of fans don't want to think of it that way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, and I mean, and this is like, this is like a precursor for what happens when Vince passes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how are they going to handle that?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's going to be worse because he doesn't have as many fans.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think I feel like a Vince showed up in WWE today.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He would get a massive ovation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He would get an ovation from the live crowd.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then online, they didn't just be slaughtering them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The audience worldwide would be very negative on that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just like those fans just love him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they would also see it as a moment, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: They would also see it as, oh my god, I never thought I would see this ever again.

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[SPEAKER_01]: true.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if like Janelle Grant showed up on WWE TV, she probably be booed, which is like so unfair.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But and if she showed up in a WWE, she'd get in a massive ovation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if anybody would really know she's like, well, no, no, I don't even know what she looks like to be honest with you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, if she had the graphic and you know, and that, I think enough people would know who she was.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That would be like, oh, man, you took Vince away.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, I'm like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: is best thing ever happened to do you like in terms of like creative forget about the fact that he was a bad man but yeah so yeah it's very complicated and um you know a lot of mixed emotions and and obviously very you know it sad day for the wrestling industry i don't know it's right way to put it but a monumental day in wrestling

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know what with him passing and it just kind of it's a part of your childhood gone yeah all right we have a little bit of a shorter out today just because of our schedules are concerned so let's try to get the next two in and let's sure maybe uh let's maybe be a little bit more concise so one that you had talked about that you wanted to raise was just this idea of content uh and you know it you were gone so I can't even imagine trying to keep up with everything after being on vacation like that sounds maddening

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I think we have a little bit of a difference of opinion on kind of who's to blame and, you know, the reason for all the content and the competition and all of this stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But why don't you state your case really quickly?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

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[SPEAKER_01]: As far as who's to blame, I haven't even really put a blame on either side.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just there's too much content right now to keep up with whether you want to blame me, WWE or both, and I think it's a combination of both.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Naturally, WWE started the fight and so you can blame them if you want but then AW went overboard on their all in because they could and they shouldn't I don't blame them that's what they should have done like it's not like I'm mad at them for what they did it's just as a fan it's too hard to keep up with and then when you add in

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know like New Japan's running the G-One right now and TNA is like had their biggest show in probably a decade if not ever and which I just watched yesterday like this is how hard it is for me to keep up with all this stuff and trying and the weekly TV like I haven't watched any WWE like in like over a week like I've watched last week's raw yet

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[SPEAKER_01]: A, W is a little bit easier to watch because it's on regular TV, but when they start throwing extra stuff at you and then like I'm, you know, and this is kind of what made me think about it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I heard about Mercedes going for like a title and some promotion and it's on it's on YouTube.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's free.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Anybody can watch it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's like I don't have time.

17:35.433 --> 17:37.574
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to have time to watch this stuff.

17:38.698 --> 17:42.261
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's important, like it's cool as she's winning all these belts.

17:42.322 --> 17:43.002
[SPEAKER_01]: It's awesome.

17:43.663 --> 17:45.965
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm not going to be able to see it.

17:46.445 --> 17:50.249
[SPEAKER_01]: No normal person is going to be able to see it because you prioritize everything.

17:50.849 --> 17:51.910
[SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of sucks.

17:51.970 --> 17:59.437
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not even like, and what I'm worried about is that with all this content, what's going to start happening is people are going to have to make choices.

18:00.458 --> 18:01.940
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know what I'm going to choose.

18:03.081 --> 18:10.270
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I do choose one over the other, then it means there's going to be a lot of wrestling out there that I really like that I'm not going to be able to watch.

18:10.970 --> 18:11.571
[SPEAKER_01]: And that sucks.

18:13.573 --> 18:17.678
[SPEAKER_00]: So okay, so now let me adjust the conversation slightly.

18:17.718 --> 18:17.958
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

18:18.619 --> 18:20.822
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's do a little bit of comparing contrast.

18:23.009 --> 18:25.111
[SPEAKER_00]: WB has two shows on Saturday.

18:25.671 --> 18:27.493
[SPEAKER_00]: One show on Saturday, one show on Sunday.

18:27.553 --> 18:33.197
[SPEAKER_00]: They're probably going to be around three to half to four hours long each summer slam.

18:34.959 --> 18:36.300
[SPEAKER_00]: Which do you prefer?

18:36.680 --> 18:37.681
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you prefer?

18:39.052 --> 18:56.556
[SPEAKER_00]: One long AEW show that you only have to really give up one evening, four or maybe one afternoon, or would you prefer the WWE model of two shows and trying to figure out, find a way to to buck it out four hours each day for those shows.

18:57.136 --> 19:05.657
[SPEAKER_01]: For the way that I watched the shows, I would, if all in had been two shows, I would have been so much better for me personally.

19:06.278 --> 19:08.378
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not as so saying that's what they should do.

19:09.058 --> 19:12.579
[SPEAKER_01]: But for me, that's what I would prefer as a fan.

19:13.000 --> 19:19.722
[SPEAKER_01]: As long as he didn't all of a sudden say, oh, we can go four, four, five hours on, you know, like I know all of a sudden, now you got ten hours.

19:20.042 --> 19:23.363
[SPEAKER_01]: But if it was like the same length, but split up on two days.

19:23.383 --> 19:25.104
[SPEAKER_01]: Because honestly, that's how I watched it.

19:25.624 --> 19:30.286
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it took, it actually took me four days to watch the show between the pre-show and everything else.

19:30.306 --> 19:33.567
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I did watch the pre-show, not the talking, but I want to see the matches.

19:34.567 --> 19:36.828
[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, it took me four days.

19:36.889 --> 19:40.631
[SPEAKER_01]: The last two matches was one day of watching that was like an hour and a half.

19:41.131 --> 19:47.935
[SPEAKER_01]: Those last two matches like that's that's like almost as much wrestling as we'll be on one of the days of summertime was just in those last two matches.

19:48.707 --> 20:17.826
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say now all in was a little bit different because they were playing the they were playing the game of course of trying to go up against side of that it's made of it and I know Dave's like oh I knew they're gonna do that and it's fair and I'm like no it's not that you don't say that that was the right thing because you possibly ruined your own show by doing that and you don't want to take away anything from this big giant show that that you did so I didn't agree with that however on a normal AEW paper view now

20:19.205 --> 20:25.909
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I don't agree with this for Russell dream or what's the last show the year world end.

20:27.590 --> 20:32.213
[SPEAKER_00]: But for an all in, you know, if we think of all in and maybe revolution.

20:33.166 --> 20:38.207
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe double or nothing, as there are three big issues, I would, I don't even know what they would consider the three big issues.

20:38.688 --> 20:49.250
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you go four to half five hours because you are putting everything into making these shows great, I'm completely okay with that because stuff happens.

20:49.451 --> 20:50.511
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem to me,

20:51.291 --> 21:06.198
[SPEAKER_00]: with the WWE shows is two days means for them they get to add double the fluff which is where you say you can fast forward and when I say I'm mostly watching live and I'm like okay like now we're just sitting on our hands

21:07.339 --> 21:10.263
[SPEAKER_00]: I was watching live by answer would be completely different.

21:10.323 --> 21:10.543
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

21:10.683 --> 21:10.883
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

21:11.004 --> 21:11.684
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

21:11.765 --> 21:15.189
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, neither is perfect.

21:15.890 --> 21:20.175
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love three and a half hour paper views and just be done with it every single time.

21:20.475 --> 21:21.396
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's just because

21:22.137 --> 21:25.259
[SPEAKER_00]: I am kind of over the spectacle of, oh, this stuff is special.

21:25.299 --> 21:28.060
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not really that special to me anymore because we get too much of it.

21:28.080 --> 21:30.461
[SPEAKER_00]: It can't be special if you get it all the time.

21:30.481 --> 21:31.041
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

21:31.101 --> 21:31.502
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's end.

21:31.602 --> 21:45.509
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's end this last one here and we'll probably be able to have a longer conversation and you and Jeff are probably having this conversation, which is the idea and I've had many people come to me and tell me this, which is all in

21:46.569 --> 21:58.014
[SPEAKER_00]: their big show, they get a lot of coverage, they get a lot of momentum, and then they lead into two weeks of television, and it seems like they are right back to where they were before they had all in.

21:58.774 --> 22:03.036
[SPEAKER_00]: And my question is, it's not really about these last two weeks of shows.

22:03.876 --> 22:12.180
[SPEAKER_00]: It is, can they be as big as they were in today's television ecosystem?

22:14.455 --> 22:21.799
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they can, but it's so hard to without knowing how many people are watching on Macs.

22:22.680 --> 22:24.081
[SPEAKER_00]: And can I caveat that?

22:25.121 --> 22:29.204
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the people on watching on Macs while they are younger, and that is a benefit.

22:30.264 --> 22:32.245
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's all appointment viewing TV.

22:32.365 --> 22:35.907
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no one watching on Macs who is like, oh,

22:37.633 --> 22:39.834
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm interested in giving this new thing a try.

22:39.914 --> 22:42.495
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all the fans who always watch our watch.

22:42.835 --> 22:46.557
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I mean, I think you and I both feel the same.

22:46.577 --> 22:50.139
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's as many people as some people think it is.

22:51.479 --> 22:52.820
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I've always been told.

22:53.020 --> 22:56.782
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that streaming is more than likely less than people believe.

22:57.387 --> 23:14.039
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, because I mean, even if you look at it and it's funny because I was just listening to when they were doing the TV when they were, I was listening to you and Dave actually and you were talking about how David originally reported the numbers that they were negotiating in the TV deal is like one fifty.

23:14.339 --> 23:14.500
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

23:14.800 --> 23:16.141
[SPEAKER_01]: And but that didn't include streaming.

23:16.461 --> 23:16.621
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

23:16.781 --> 23:18.983
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they, you know, they ended up being one eighty five.

23:19.603 --> 23:23.766
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you think about it, that thirty five is probably the streaming, right?

23:23.786 --> 23:28.230
[SPEAKER_01]: Which kind of tells you that they feel like streaming is maybe like twenty percent.

23:28.590 --> 23:30.131
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's because they don't get them.

23:30.191 --> 23:35.716
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't get the same money yet because the majority of their money comes from their cable division.

23:36.116 --> 23:38.998
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the majority of the people are still watching on cable.

23:39.078 --> 23:40.139
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the majority of it.

23:40.239 --> 23:46.504
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more, it's more the households and the, yeah, the fees that they get as being with part of that cable bundle.

23:46.604 --> 23:48.806
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's more what it is with the economics.

23:49.166 --> 23:52.891
[SPEAKER_00]: But at some point streaming, if streaming does

23:54.253 --> 23:57.296
[SPEAKER_00]: or become where all the revenue comes from.

23:57.316 --> 24:00.198
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it just has to get way bigger than it is.

24:00.238 --> 24:05.683
[SPEAKER_00]: And there has to be more ways for growth and for people to find this stuff, which I don't think is happening.

24:05.723 --> 24:15.972
[SPEAKER_00]: I think everyone who's watching on max is already an AEW fan, but they just, you know, they are able to watch it on max where they may not have been able to watch it on cable.

24:16.012 --> 24:17.314
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there's no growth.

24:17.734 --> 24:20.777
[SPEAKER_01]: The only way to get new people is through TV right now.

24:21.457 --> 24:25.400
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that if there's increases in the television numbers, then that's real growth.

24:26.001 --> 24:29.224
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's increases in the ticket sales, then that's real growth.

24:29.904 --> 24:32.707
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was a big mistake.

24:32.747 --> 24:37.090
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say I thought this two months ago when it was announced or three months, whenever it was.

24:38.531 --> 24:45.838
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I may change my mind in a month or so based on whatever happens, but I thought it was a mistake to go from all in.

24:46.812 --> 24:56.065
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, where you're going to have, you know, whatever the number is going to be, it turns out it was like, twenty eight thousand to go back to eleven hundred for six straight shows.

24:57.385 --> 25:02.348
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and, and yeah, when you first turn on Wednesday on Dynamite after all in, it kind of look cool.

25:02.368 --> 25:05.850
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounded cool by the second show I was done with it.

25:06.391 --> 25:07.731
[SPEAKER_01]: And we still have four more to go.

25:08.472 --> 25:16.557
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I think this next week's show is going to be awesome because you got the hangman locks match and you got outrunners, bucks, which will probably be great.

25:17.177 --> 25:19.979
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you got half lecture and dust and roads on Thursday.

25:20.039 --> 25:21.040
[SPEAKER_01]: So that should be good too.

25:21.860 --> 25:30.688
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think like we'll see like if the ticket sales are increasing, I mean, they're going to have a good good crowd at forbidden door.

25:31.028 --> 25:32.990
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Toronto all out is looking good.

25:33.290 --> 25:37.073
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, those are numbers that, you know, those numbers were always going to be good.

25:37.614 --> 25:38.734
[SPEAKER_00]: So they can sell.

25:39.455 --> 25:59.480
[SPEAKER_00]: paper for you for the majority of the those fans know that those are where Tony's going to put his right money and where's mouth is now he might install say it's right so here was my last point and we'll get out of here this is this is my main takeaway what I wanted to get out about the the AEW thing

26:01.075 --> 26:14.542
[SPEAKER_00]: More so the reason I think why they're going to probably be, you know, up and down within a couple of percent five percent is because, well, I think Tony Khan is a really good booker for his audience.

26:14.722 --> 26:16.683
[SPEAKER_00]: John the Rockham may may disagree with me.

26:18.083 --> 26:23.446
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's a great promoter for week to week month to month.

26:23.506 --> 26:24.907
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's a great promoter

26:25.724 --> 26:32.787
[SPEAKER_00]: But for when he believes he needs to sell out big shows, I think he's going to put all of his effort.

26:32.827 --> 26:39.711
[SPEAKER_00]: And we see that with all in like this dude, I imagine this dude was so exhausted from putting all of that effort into that show.

26:39.731 --> 26:48.074
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, sometimes we see it in the TV, the consecutive weeks in the next couple of TVs at that, both dynamites were kind of flat coming out of a coming out of that big show.

26:50.644 --> 27:07.928
[SPEAKER_00]: in order to be where WWE is, which that's a mountain that is probably too high to climb, you have to be multitasking weekly and being in and out and up and down and not necessarily just focused on booking.

27:07.968 --> 27:09.268
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why there are two jobs, right?

27:09.308 --> 27:16.470
[SPEAKER_00]: Triple H and Nick Khan and other people working with them to help them put everything on a schedule and everything in order.

27:16.570 --> 27:18.010
[SPEAKER_00]: And even sometimes as we saw,

27:19.237 --> 27:23.480
[SPEAKER_00]: all in weekend for WWE, that was a cluster of fucking a half.

27:23.700 --> 27:25.161
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was it was not good.

27:25.181 --> 27:31.745
[SPEAKER_00]: It was probably a negative for their business overall when it comes to like just was that good?

27:32.005 --> 27:33.626
[SPEAKER_00]: No, do I want to see more of that?

27:33.766 --> 27:34.066
[SPEAKER_00]: No.

27:34.426 --> 27:36.488
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, we'll give them another shot with summer slam.

27:36.508 --> 27:37.308
[SPEAKER_00]: Summer slam has to be

27:37.408 --> 27:40.369
[SPEAKER_00]: good, I think, or there's going to be some overexposure problems.

27:40.849 --> 27:44.351
[SPEAKER_00]: But the one thing that they're good at is they have their calendar.

27:44.751 --> 27:47.432
[SPEAKER_00]: They are able to multitask.

27:47.492 --> 27:49.872
[SPEAKER_00]: They're able to adjust and pivot.

27:50.313 --> 27:59.876
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think Tony Connor can do that as a one man or a one man and a bunch of junior people who he doesn't really trust to run the show, helping him.

28:00.216 --> 28:04.778
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is I think ultimately going to be the reason why AEW won't be able to grow as much, but

28:05.583 --> 28:10.248
[SPEAKER_00]: to that hardcore viewership, I think they're in love with the product.

28:10.308 --> 28:16.514
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you are looking at it from that perspective, you have a base, you're good with your base.

28:17.074 --> 28:21.378
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're going to be happy with it for as long as it's still good wrestling.

28:22.556 --> 28:40.110
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think his strength is promoting AEW as a brand and the style of wrestling that he promotes and everything and the obviously the big shows, but in terms of the week to week promotion, I don't think he thinks that it's that important.

28:40.770 --> 29:04.000
[SPEAKER_01]: you know that that he's got a base audience and whether it's seven hundred thousand six hundred five fifty you know point one five point two oh it doesn't really matter week to week it's all about the consistency and then the big shows and you can always say hey we have this DVR audience that watches the next day too that doesn't even count in the ratings but we count them because they are and half a million people watching every week on that

29:04.420 --> 29:24.361
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think he would eat that, but no, and you know, so when it comes to these big shows, yeah, it's he's giving everybody exactly what he thinks they want and a lot of them do want, you know, a lot of them probably would be happy with maybe an hour less stuff to show, but you know, whatever, like they're still buying them.

29:24.641 --> 29:26.582
[SPEAKER_01]: So you know, and I think all ended very well.

29:26.802 --> 29:29.964
[SPEAKER_01]: I've really read up on it, but I think I think they did.

29:30.384 --> 29:33.506
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're best by rate since the sting retirement.

29:33.766 --> 29:34.266
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there you go.

29:34.366 --> 29:35.206
[SPEAKER_01]: So they have very good.

29:35.507 --> 29:37.728
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, W, yeah, W, didn't work.

29:38.028 --> 29:40.429
[SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully they learned from that and stopped doing it.

29:40.449 --> 29:41.149
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.

29:42.650 --> 29:47.692
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, you and Jeff got a big dynamite show coming with the big main event of Moxley and Hangman.

29:47.732 --> 29:50.474
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, with nobody can run in.

29:50.554 --> 29:51.794
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that the step?

29:52.234 --> 29:52.935
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the step.

29:53.115 --> 29:57.417
[SPEAKER_01]: And I told Jeff, like he said, oh, you know, somebody's going to debut.

29:57.717 --> 29:59.858
[SPEAKER_01]: No, Tony says nobody's going to run in.

29:59.898 --> 30:00.658
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody's going to run in.

30:01.198 --> 30:04.700
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know why he doesn't say that for every match, but he said it for this one.

30:05.020 --> 30:07.881
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's got enough faith with me that I believe it.

30:07.921 --> 30:08.862
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'm very interested.

30:08.902 --> 30:10.763
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I assume Hangman's going to win.

30:11.643 --> 30:25.625
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I guess the question is what's next for the death writers and I guess we'll find out probably that'll move along and then what's next for Hangman that's I expect will will no Hangman's next challenger after this match happens.

30:26.046 --> 30:26.527
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my guess.

30:26.905 --> 30:32.807
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so right after Dynamite about twenty minutes or actually with the long overruns even less these days you guys.

30:32.847 --> 30:37.848
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we tend to try to go for that twenty minutes after the hour regardless of how long the overrun goes.

30:37.928 --> 30:45.410
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so that'll be up on our live YouTube stream and then we'll have the audio in the podcast feed as well.

30:45.470 --> 30:46.411
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, thanks Paul.

30:46.911 --> 30:48.731
[SPEAKER_00]: For Paul, I am WG.

30:48.791 --> 30:51.012
[SPEAKER_00]: We will see you when we see you piece out.